Unpopular GAA opinions you hold

Hulk Hands

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I cannot of one player (no matter how good they were) that did not have a bad match at some stage in their career.

I can never remember Sean Marty Lockhart, Seamus Moynihan, Tomas Mannion or even Tomas O'Se being taken to the cleaners (and O'Se was to a massive extent on occasion). An excellent player but if we're going to place him amongst the best of all time, those are the standards we must hold him to.

donnem33

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I can never remember Sean Marty Lockhart, Seamus Moynihan, Tomas Mannion or even Tomas O'Se being taken to the cleaners (and O'Se was to a massive extent on occasion). An excellent player but if we're going to place him amongst the best of all time, those are the standards we must hold him to.

Tomas Mannion was destroyed in the match against Roscommon in Tuam in 2001. That performance prompted his move to centre back where he excelled for the year. Tomas O se has ben sent off on numerous occasions.

rockbeast

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

That is not true. You need to be able to read the game. Know whether to stay on your man when he goes roaming around the field, know when to burst forward in support of your team-mates, know when to drop back to help out your defence. With positions not meaning what they used to, having a sharp brain knowing to do the right thing at the right time is probably more important than ever.

I am physically fit and am able to hand pass the ball. But I do not possess the sharpness to survive on a football pitch.

Correct.

Watch some of those lads play college or club football under a different manager than at county level and you'll see a totally different skillset on display.

The multiple handpass style of "play" came in, IMO, as a percentage-based, low-risk tactic to navigate through rounds in AI when essentially one mistake and your out.

This was particularly relevant in Ulster due to a tougher, again IMO, provincial competition so it's no surprise to me it's current style originated from there.

6/7 months training and effort for what could be one game?

I know, I know, there's the back-door, qualifiers route but a week in football is a very short turnaround time if you haven't a great squad and you have trained to play, and have played, a high-intensity game the previous week...

Fireball07

Don't know if it counts as being destroyed, but Tomás O'Sé had to resort to some really bad cynical play against Stephen Kelly in 2010, one of the worst displays of cynical fouling I've ever seen against one individual player.

Hulk Hands

donnem33 wrote: »

Tomas Mannion was destroyed in the match against Roscommon in Tuam in 2001. That performance prompted his move to centre back where he excelled for the year. Tomas O se has ben sent off on numerous occasions.

Nonsense, Tomas was switched because Galway didnt have a CB at the time and it was a massive hole in the defense. I dont even think he was on Frankie that day when Frankie got the goal. Probably not his finest day (none played well that day bar John Don iirc) but certainly not destroyed. By that stage he was aging anyway and had lost his pace, key for a corner back

keane2097

Moynihan was tattooed plenty of times.

Hulk Hands

keane2097 wrote: »

Moynihan was tattooed plenty of times.

I know you're a Kerryman so i'm not going to question it. Interested to hear when though? Karl Lacey in 98 perhaps? My abiding memory of him is marshalling Joyce well, getting the better of a youthful McConville after an early scare, and taking Geraghty out of it once. He wasn't a natural FB either

megadodge

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Nonsense, Tomas was switched because Galway didnt have a CB at the time and it was a massive hole in the defense. I dont even think he was on Frankie that day when Frankie got the goal. Probably not his finest day (none played well that day bar John Don iirc) but certainly not destroyed. By that stage he was aging anyway and had lost his pace, key for a corner back

You're the one talking nonsense.

I'm a Roscommon man and I remember after that game thinking that was an awful way for such a great career to end - with regard to Mannion. I always admired him and yes he was a great player, but after the roasting he got from Nigel Dineen that day (who also scored a goal and won virtually every one of the frequent balls coming into him) I thought we'd never see Mannion play for Galway again - and I wasn't the only one. The change to centre-back was out of necessity as Galway didn't have one at the time and it turned out to be a master-stroke, but was regarded as a desperate move at the time due to how bad Mannion was in that game.

Padraig Joyce scored 6 points from play that day and was outstanding, so your memory isn't all that good.

The original poster's point that no player has never had a bad match is 100% correct and it's foolish of you to think otherwise. The great ones just have less bad matches than the rest.

Hulk Hands

megadodge wrote: »

The original poster's point that no player has never had a bad match is 100% correct and it's foolish of you to think otherwise. The great ones just have less bad matches than the rest.

I'll take that on board and get out the tape and have a look at that game when im next home. Not how I remember it but maybe my memory of 12 years ago isnt so great. As a Ros man, theres one game your certainly going to remember and cherish anyway.

This is one example though at the tail end of a players career at corner back and in general. When I said I never remembered, I didnt state as fact that it never happened. I could immediately think of 3 examples for O'Se (in his prime) without putting much effort in. I'm sure there's some for each player named, as there are more for O'Se also. Anyway, thread for unpopular opinions its called so dissent is to be expected

megadodge

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I'll take that on board and get out the tape and have a look at that game when im next home. Not how I remember it but maybe my memory of 12 years ago isnt so great. As a Ros man, theres one game your certainly going to remember and cherish anyway.

This is one example though at the tail end of a players career at corner back and in general. When I said I never remembered, I didnt state as fact that it never happened. I could immediately think of 3 examples for O'Se (in his prime) without putting much effort in. I'm sure there's some for each player named, as there are more for O'Se also. Anyway, thread for unpopular opinions its called so dissent is to be expected

Actually if you do have a tape, I'd be very interested in accessing it. I've never seen that game in full, as I was at it and never saw any full recording other than highlights on the Sunday Game. It's still IMO the best Roscommon performance I ever saw and that includes All-Irl semi v Armagh in 1980 and League Final in 1979 and League (quarter or semi) v Dublin in 1990.

Hulk Hands

megadodge wrote: »

Actually if you do have a tape, I'd be very interested in accessing it. I've never seen that game in full, as I was at it and never saw any full recording other than highlights on the Sunday Game. It's still IMO the best Roscommon performance I ever saw and that includes All-Irl semi v Armagh in 1980 and League Final in 1979.

I think I have one of every game from that period 97-03 or so, I used to make a habit of recording them. Ill have a look when i'm home, mightnt be for a month or so.

From the short youtube video of the game online it seems like he was marking Dolan, which would make us both wrong. Dinnen goal had nothing to do with him. He was static for Frankie's alright

ciarriaithuaidh

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I know you're a Kerryman so i'm not going to question it. Interested to hear when though? Karl Lacey in 98 perhaps? My abiding memory of him is marshalling Joyce well, getting the better of a youthful McConville after an early scare, and taking Geraghty out of it once. He wasn't a natural FB either

The 2000 Semi final Replay was a fantastic game and epitomised by the Moynihan v McConville batte. McConville scored 1-9, 1-2 from play but Moynihan had a fantastic game (sounds weird even typing that, but I was there and have the tape also!) and by the end of extra time the Pony was actually well on top.

Moynihan struggled at fullback 2-3 times that I remember, against Colin Corkery in a couple of games in Munster, and in the 2002 final against Ronan Clarke. He never played fullback in his life until 2000 though and won POTY and lifted Sam that year...what a man!

rockbeast

Kilkenny and Kerry were the the most successful teams of the '00s

Neither will be remembered for having the best All Ireland win of the decade.

Both teams were as dirty as dust when things didn't go their way.

cul beag

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

The 2000 Semi final Replay was a fantastic game and epitomised by the Moynihan v McConville batte. McConville scored 1-9, 1-2 from play but Moynihan had a fantastic game (sounds weird even typing that, but I was there and have the tape also!) and by the end of extra time the Pony was actually well on top.

Moynihan struggled at fullback 2-3 times that I remember, against Colin Corkery in a couple of games in Munster, and in the 2002 final against Ronan Clarke. He never played fullback in his life until 2000 though and won POTY and lifted Sam that year...what a man!

Why was he called the pony? Great player by the way.

robbiezero

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

The 2000 Semi final Replay was a fantastic game and epitomised by the Moynihan v McConville batte. McConville scored 1-9, 1-2 from play but Moynihan had a fantastic game (sounds weird even typing that, but I was there and have the tape also!) and by the end of extra time the Pony was actually well on top.

Moynihan struggled at fullback 2-3 times that I remember, against Colin Corkery in a couple of games in Munster, and in the 2002 final against Ronan Clarke. He never played fullback in his life until 2000 though and won POTY and lifted Sam that year...what a man!

2002 final is the one I remember him struggling on Ronan Clarke too.

To me Marc O'Se would have been an ideal wing back, but needs must for Kerry. He was too much of a footballer to play in the full back line. It is nearly impossible to mark the likes of Bernard Brogan if he is getting good ball and you are not laying a hand on him before the ball comes in. Kerry never really did sweeper systems. either so no cover.

A hugely underrated back was Tom O Sullivan of Kerry. One of the best defenders of his generation.

Royal Legend

That the media touted Peter Canavan as one of the greatest footballers of his generation, yet in my opinion he was cynical and a cheat.

eyescreamcone

How come no GAA jerseys have yellow in them?

It's always the blue and gold etc

The worst is the saffron of Antrim haha

Is yellow not allowed in the GAA 

passremarkable

Michael dara McCauley is an average footballer that is just extremely fit, don't think he should have got POTY.

Eoin Kelly from tipp was dirty, had a habit of slapping back in contact.

rockbeast

passremarkable wrote: »

Michael dara McCauley is an average footballer that is just extremely fit, don't think he should have got POTY.

Eoin Kelly from tipp was dirty, had a habit of slapping back in contact.

??

You're an average poster that types fast...;)

passremarkable

rockbeast wrote: »

??

You're an average poster that types fast...;)

Cheers ðŸ˜႒

nice_guy80

eyescreamcone wrote: »

How come no GAA jerseys have yellow in them?

It's always the blue and gold etc

The worst is the saffron of Antrim haha

Is yellow not allowed in the GAA 

Roscommon has primrose and blue.
Happy?

CurryFlavoured

To be fair I get what he's saying about MD McAuley, but I'd have to ask how many midfielders are genuinely skillful? The vast majority are big, strong, athletic guys who can compete in the middle and have the engine to get up and down the field. Very few midfielders can score from long distance, kick long passes etc.

I don't know how controversial this is, but Tomás O'Sé was a filthy footballer. One of my favourite players to watch and one of the greatest of the last 20+ years, but he got away with a lot. I remember a Kerry v Limerick game a few years back (Munster semi or final, I don't remember, Kerry won by a point of two though), Tomás probably could have picked up 2 or 3 reds that game. He played the full 70 though.

megadodge

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

To be fair I get what he's saying about MD McAuley, but I'd have to ask how many midfielders are genuinely skillful? The vast majority are big, strong, athletic guys who can compete in the middle and have the engine to get up and down the field. Very few midfielders can score from long distance, kick long passes etc.

I don't know how controversial this is, but Tomás O'Sé was a filthy footballer. One of my favourite players to watch and one of the greatest of the last 20+ years, but he got away with a lot. I remember a Kerry v Limerick game a few years back (Munster semi or final, I don't remember, Kerry won by a point of two though), Tomás probably could have picked up 2 or 3 reds that game. He played the full 70 though.

I couldn't agree more. IMO he is the best wing-back I ever saw, but Jesus he got away with an awful lot, especially early in his career. I'll never forget the All-Ireland final replay v Galway in 2000 where he 'marked' Michael Donnellan. I was at the match and ended up watching them as much as the ball. How O'Se stayed on the pitch is something the officials only know. He kicked Donnellan around the pitch so much that the Galway man ended up with a broken ankle and O'Se got a token yellow when the game was virtually over. It was disgusting.

Nidgeweasel

passremarkable wrote: »

Michael dara McCauley is an average footballer that is just extremely fit, don't think he should have got POTY.

A donkey.

rockbeast

So, two-time All Ireland champion and current player of the year Michael Darragh MacAuley, can you tell us where it all went wrong?

aveytare

Royal Legend wrote: »

That the media touted Peter Canavan as one of the greatest footballers of his generation, yet in my opinion he was cynical and a cheat.

As a Tyrone fan I think he got a bit cynical in his later years though he was on the receiving end of a lot of dirty play so I don't know really. Like he gets a lot of criticism for pulling down the Gooch at the end of 2005 final but he was dragged around for a good bit by Tom O'Sullivan in the first half during a bit of a scuffle (trying to get Canavan to react I think and it's on youtube so I'm not just talking out of my ****) so it's probably six of one half of dozen of another. Maybe he should've pulled down Tom O'Sullivan instead Not trying to start a row with the Kerry ones!

I suppose his run-in with Meath as well might've had an effect on him too

Nidgeweasel

robbiezero wrote: »

2002 final is the one I remember him struggling on Ronan Clarke too.

To me Marc O'Se would have been an ideal wing back, but needs must for Kerry. He was too much of a footballer to play in the full back line. It is nearly impossible to mark the likes of Bernard Brogan if he is getting good ball and you are not laying a hand on him before the ball comes in. Kerry never really did sweeper systems. either so no cover.

A hugely underrated back was Tom O Sullivan of Kerry. One of the best defenders of his generation.

I always liked Mike Mac.

thesultan

Peter McKenna is ruling the roast in Croke Park and money is his only interest.

We haven't had a decent president in ages.

The Garth Brooks concerts and one direction concerts revenue will result in no money going to clubs.

Cork always get the rub of the green.

The opening of Croke Park have rugby a promotion they could only dream of.

Croke park talk about club players but its only that talk, they don't generate anything.

Royal Legend

aveytare wrote: »

As a Tyrone fan I think he got a bit cynical in his later years though he was on the receiving end of a lot of dirty play so I don't know really. Like he gets a lot of criticism for pulling down the Gooch at the end of 2005 final but he was dragged around for a good bit by Tom O'Sullivan in the first half during a bit of a scuffle (trying to get Canavan to react I think and it's on youtube so I'm not just talking out of my ****) so it's probably six of one half of dozen of another. Maybe he should've pulled down Tom O'Sullivan instead Not trying to start a row with the Kerry ones!

I suppose his run-in with Meath as well might've had an effect on him too

He was at it in that game as well. he fell to the ground holding his head trying to get Darren Fay into trouble early in that game, (trying to get Fay sent off, no other way to describe it) he got what he deserved shortly afterwards, yet ever since his supporters play him as the victim. by the way, he has admitted since he retired that he cheated.

megadodge

thesultan wrote: »

Peter McKenna is ruling the roast in Croke Park and money is his only interest.

Never a truer word spoken. The man doesn't give a damn about sport or the GAA, all he's interested in is generating income. He's also a proven liar (as seen on Prime Time, where he just shrugged it off when confronted with evidence that he lied - no chance of an apology there).

aveytare

Royal Legend wrote: »

He was at it in that game as well. he fell to the ground holding his head trying to get Darren Fay into trouble early in that game, (trying to get Fay sent off, no other way to describe it) he got what he deserved shortly afterwards, yet ever since his supporters play him as the victim. by the way, he has admitted since he retired that he cheated.

Wouldn't be surprised if you're making that up or exaggerating to be honest; I've never heard that claimed before anyway. Maybe Brian Dooher and Ciaran McBride got what they deserved that match as well. Can't exactly take the moral high ground about that match anyway. When did he admit that he cheated?

Was good craic seeing Martin O'Connell talking rubbish on Laochra Gael about not meaning to stamp on Dooher that match, it was the most obvious intentional stamp I've ever seen, he pinned his head down before doing it ffs

rockbeast

PJ Banville looks like a young Gordon Ramsey

ciarriaithuaidh

Canavan was a fantastic player and anyone saying otherwise hasn't a clue IMO.

However, he did have a very nast streak and not just a normal one either. He feigned serious injury on more than one occassion, famously headbutting the arm of Mike McCarthy in the 2003 Semi final in an attempt to get him sent off. (He got yellow)...A great player, but (same as many great players) not without his flaws.

aveytare

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Canavan was a fantastic player and anyone saying otherwise hasn't a clue IMO.

However, he did have a very nast streak and not just a normal one either. He feigned serious injury on more than one occassion, famously headbutting the arm of Mike McCarthy in the 2003 Semi final in an attempt to get him sent off. (He got yellow)...A great player, but (same as many great players) not without his flaws.

Yeah that's fair enough. In a way his Machiavellian was part of what made him great (dealing with bigger opponents for example, I've met him a few times and he's skinny and probably about 5'7", not his listed height anyway!) though he obviously crossed the line a few times as well, particularly in his later years with Tyrone. I don't think even the most biased Tyrone supporter would deny he had that streak.

megadodge

aveytare wrote: »

Was good craic seeing Martin O'Connell talking rubbish on Laochra Gael about not meaning to stamp on Dooher that match, it was the most obvious intentional stamp I've ever seen, he pinned his head down before doing it ffs

That's quite ridiculous.

It was very obviously unintentional, but because the 'perpetrator' was wearing a Meath jersey there was a scandalous over-reaction by the 'someone think of the children' types to it.

If you look at O'Connell's eyes he's constantly looking at the ball, falls off-balance from the body underneath him, puts his hand down to stop falling (as natural a human a reaction as you can get) and the result is a disgraceful tarnishing of a brilliant footballer's reputation.

I was a complete neutral (though would have liked to see Tyrone win) and feel some of the other rough stuff that Meath intentionally did (McDermott's hit on Canavan being the most obvious) resulted in O'Connell's incident being thrown in with them by way of lazy association.

aveytare

megadodge wrote: »

That's quite ridiculous.

It was very obviously unintentional, but because the 'perpetrator' was wearing a Meath jersey there was a scandalous over-reaction by the 'someone think of the children' types to it.

If you look at O'Connell's eyes he's constantly looking at the ball, falls off-balance from the body underneath him, puts his hand down to stop falling (as natural a human a reaction as you can get)

Yeah but then he stamped on his head - he would've known exactly where his foot was gonna land considering where he'd just put his hand, unless you think it was unavoidable? Not a sarcastic question btw but I think McConnell didn't put much effort into avoiding stamping on him anyway.

megadodge

aveytare wrote: »

Yeah but then he stamped on his head - he would've known exactly where his foot was gonna land considering where he'd just put his hand, unless you think it was unavoidable? Not a sarcastic question btw but I think McConnell didn't put much effort into avoiding stamping on him anyway.

Did you not notice that O'Connell was falling off-balance? And was trying to right himself? Where was he going to put his foot?

In those split-second scenarios there's no thinking involved. There's just reactions and putting his hand down was one and putting his foot down to straighten himself was the next phase.

Slow-motion has a lot to answer for.

rockbeast

megadodge wrote: »

Slow-motion has a lot to answer for.

It really does.

aveytare

megadodge wrote: »

Did you not notice that O'Connell was falling off-balance? And was trying to right himself? Where was he going to put his foot?

In those split-second scenarios there's no thinking involved. There's just reactions and putting his hand down was one and putting his foot down to straighten himself was the next phase.

Slow-motion has a lot to answer for.

Jeez, I don't know, it looked pretty terrible. and I think it was at least avoidable. Even if that was a clean match it would've been picked up on. Obviously we disagree and that's fine.

nice_guy80

megadodge wrote: »

Never a truer word spoken. The man doesn't give a damn about sport or the GAA, all he's interested in is generating income. He's also a proven liar (as seen on Prime Time, where he just shrugged it off when confronted with evidence that he lied - no chance of an apology there).

he's on a bonus scheme for GAA earnings.
the more Croke Park earns, the more he earns

Royal Legend

aveytare wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if you're making that up or exaggerating to be honest; I've never heard that claimed before anyway. Maybe Brian Dooher and Ciaran McBride got what they deserved that match as well. Can't exactly take the moral high ground about that match anyway. When did he admit that he cheated?

Was good craic seeing Martin O'Connell talking rubbish on Laochra Gael about not meaning to stamp on Dooher that match, it was the most obvious intentional stamp I've ever seen, he pinned his head down before doing it ffs

Not making it up, happened early in the match right in front of me, the first time I had seen something as cynical ever in a GAA game, has become commonplace since

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Canavan was a fantastic player and anyone saying otherwise hasn't a clue IMO.

However, he did have a very nast streak and not just a normal one either. He feigned serious injury on more than one occassion, famously headbutting the arm of Mike McCarthy in the 2003 Semi final in an attempt to get him sent off. (He got yellow)...A great player, but (same as many great players) not without his flaws.

the really great ones have very little in the way of flaws, does the Gooch cheat?

aveytare

Royal Legend wrote: »

Not making it up, happened early in the match right in front of me, the first time I had seen something as cynical ever in a GAA game, has become commonplace since

"My memory says Fay caught Canavan. He was on one knee and Fay shouldered him into the head. He wore a bandage for the rest of the game."

Saw earlier that you'd posted that but I didn't respond to it because I know looking at your post history is lame, but Canavan didn't wear a bandage that match and being shouldered in the head doesn't sound that pleasant anyway.

Royal Legend

aveytare wrote: »

"My memory says Fay caught Canavan. He was on one knee and Fay shouldered him into the head. He wore a bandage for the rest of the game."

Saw earlier that you'd posted that but I didn't respond to it because I know looking at your post history is lame, but Canavan didn't wear a bandage that match and being shouldered in the head doesn't sound that pleasant anyway.

he feigned the injury with Fay a while before before been hit as he was kneeling on the ground, then the bandage appeared.
Didn't Dinky end up wearing a bandage as well?

aveytare

Royal Legend wrote: »

he feigned the injury with Fay a while before before been hit as he was kneeling on the ground, then the bandage appeared.
Didn't Dinky end up wearing a bandage as well?

As I said, Canavan didn't wear a bandage during that match.

Yeah McBride did I think. He's said in interviews more recently that he doesn't blame Meath at all, I know he complained a bit at the time - I appreciate it's annoying when opposing fans and players complain. Meath were brilliant that day, the other stuff isn't why Tyrone lost though obviously Canavan's injury didn't help. One man team or not, we still would've been beaten.

Royal Legend

aveytare wrote: »

As I said, Canavan didn't wear a bandage during that match.

Yeah McBride did I think. He's said in interviews more recently that he doesn't blame Meath at all, I know he complained a bit at the time - I appreciate it's annoying when opposing fans and players complain. Meath were brilliant that day, the other stuff isn't why Tyrone lost though obviously Canavan's injury didn't help. One man team or not, we still would've been beaten.

You are correct on the bandage, for some reason only part of your post appears?

Anyway, it was not the moaning afterwards that got me, as I remember it was Dinky that did the most of it, but the cynicism of Canavan, from that day on I had a very low regard for him as a footballer

aveytare

Royal Legend wrote: »

You are correct on the bandage, for some reason only part of your post appears?

Anyway, it was not the moaning afterwards that got me, as I remember it was Dinky that did the most of it, but the cynicism of Canavan, from that day on I had a very low regard for him as a footballer

Fair enough. I always thought Canavan was cynical in his later years with Tyrone but not really his earlier years so I'm just a bit surprised that he'd have seriously tried to get a player sent off in the mid-nineties (i.e. not just 'buying a free'). Hard to comment on the specific incident without seeing it really.

Dinky was one of my teachers for a few years, he's grand but didn't speak much about playing with Tyrone. No Sean Boylan effigy in the classroom.

Tom Joad

aveytare wrote: »

Fair enough. I always thought Canavan was cynical in his later years with Tyrone but not really his earlier years so I'm just a bit surprised that he'd have seriously tried to get a player sent off in the mid-nineties (i.e. not just 'buying a free'). Hard to comment on the specific incident without seeing it really.

Dinky was one of my teachers for a few years, he's grand but didn't speak much about playing with Tyrone. No Sean Boylan effigy in the classroom.

While he was one of the best players of his generation imho Canavan got away with murder and was one of the most cynical players you could come across - and in Ulster that is saying something!!

donnem33

Galway hurling supporters are the most fickle supporters in the country!!! win a few matches and the vast majority jump on the bandwagon. Lose and the players get ridiculed!!!

Yes it is hard being a galway supporter and more often than not we leave matches disappointed. But some key board warriors are too extreme ridiculing players. No player ever goes out to perform badly and the effort that is required to play intercounty is professional in everything but name!

After losing yesterday, the reaction is too extreme (which is after every loss). Galway were competitive right to the end! And they will be next weekend against Tipp and they deserve our support, not people saying they ll never go to a match again.

Rant over.

TCDStudent1

Hulk Hands wrote: »

I can never remember Sean Marty Lockhart, Seamus Moynihan, Tomas Mannion or even Tomas O'Se being taken to the cleaners (and O'Se was to a massive extent on occasion). An excellent player but if we're going to place him amongst the best of all time, those are the standards we must hold him to.

Mannion was roasted in that Roscommon match in 2001. Cant remember who he was marking to be honest. After that defeat, many Galway fans expected him to be dropped. I have seen him have plenty of average games for Monivea in the past too. Dont get me wrong, He was a fantastic player. His performance in the 98 all-ireland final should be essential viewing for any corner back! Sean Og De Paor's point from Michael Donnellans pass originated in Mannion winning a hard ball above Lynch (iirc). I cant remember him on the Galway team in '00; the full back line was Meehan, Fahey, Silke, wasnt it? Was he injured that year?

I probably have the tape from that Galway - Ros match too. I have to digitise some of these tapes - they are left in my attic :-(

I would probably rate the 3 players you mention higher than Marc O'Se as well but they certainly have had bad matches in their career. I think its a little unfair to say that Marc O'Se is not a top player because he has had some bad games.

Hulk Hands

Of course he's a top player.Its just he's one of those 'so underrated he's now overrated' ones. Generally consensus these days is putting him in the top 5 man markers of the last 20 yrs or so. I just dont have him that high myself, having at least the 4 mentioned + Darren Fay, Karl Lacey and Kieth Higgins ahead of him.