Unpopular GAA opinions you hold

keane2097

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

in fairness, you'd need to do a hell of a lot of arguing to make that anywhere near true.

Think it's pretty easy to argue that if something is much harder to do with one set of equipment versus another then it takes more skill to do it with the first set.

Seems pretty clear from stats etc that putting a sliotar over the bar with a hurley is a lot easier than putting a size 5 over from the same spot with your foot.

Mal-Adjusted

keane2097 wrote: »

Think it's pretty easy to argue that if something is much harder to do with one set of equipment versus another then it takes more skill to do it with the first set.

if you conveniently ignore that they're different sports with different scoring opportunities.

keane2097 wrote: »

Seems pretty clear from stats etc that putting a sliotar over the bar with a hurley is a lot easier than putting a size 5 over from the same spot with your foot.

If scoring in football was more skillful, they surely they should be able to take scores from that far out? The hurley & sliotar is far, far harder to control and aim than a much larger ball you can kick with your foot. try hitting a size 5 with the hurley and come back.

CrabRevolution

I'm not sure if there are many other sports on earth that give so much credence to one off, shock results.

For example in soccer if when Cardiff beat Man City, or Crystal Palace drew with Liverpool, you wouldnt hear anyone saying that Cardiff are better than Man City, or that Palace are on par with Liverpool.

Meanwhile in football, if a weak team wins against a stronger team after every player gives their absolute everything, plays the game of their lives, has luck on their side and the other team has an off day, people suddenly reckon that that is now the norm and that's the level the weak team are at.

My example is Carlow, before and after the Meath match this year all we heard was "But they beat Louth/drew with Meath years ago, therefore they should be beating other teams". People dont seem to realise that beating Louth/drawing with Meath was the highest achievement Carlow can manage and they will never do better. They were an anomalies in a long track record of losses.

In my opinion beating Waterford did them more harm then good, since now people will go "See, they won one match, all is well, to think they mentioned a 2 tier championship" when in reality they ended the year bottom of the league, beat possibly the only team worse than them in Ireland, and ended with a championship score difference of around -50 despite having all matches at home.

Same with the Munster championship, any talk of seeding or a 2nd tier is met with the trite "But...but..but Clare won in 1992", totally ignoring the fact that that was the sole non Kerry/Cork success in 80 years. These one off wins make any discussion on reforming the championship impossible.

CurryFlavoured

I said this before, but how many top midfielders right now are genuinely skillful? I mean that they can kick pass accurately, shoot accurately, use both feet etc. Sean Cavanagh and Bryan Sheehan come to mind, but they seem to play in the forwards as much as midfield. I wouldn't call other big name midfielders like O'Shea or Aidan Walsh particularly skillful, probably better than MDMA but AOS was missing simple scoring chances for fun last season. I think the 'MDMA = Unskillful' thing comes more from his unorthodox style than his severe lack of skill.

His engine, strength, power and (in particular) his off the ball running are what set him apart, he doesn't get all those goal opportunities by chance. FWIW I don't think he was FOTY last year either though.

Amprodude

Colm the Gooch Cooper will never win a AI club medal with Dr Crokes and Dr Crokes wont win a club All Ireland. 1992 is where it will remain.

Amprodude

The Kerry 1997 team was one of the poorest Kerry teams ever to win the All Ireland.

Amprodude

Clares 2013 hurling team was hugely overrated and Wexford should have taken them down last year in qualfiers like they this this time around. 2 good performances and they were AI Champions.

CrabRevolution

Amprodude wrote: »

Kerry 1997 team was one of the poorest Kerry teams to win All Ireland.

I was only 3 or 4 at the time, but I've heard that said so often in my life that it cant be that unpopular....

Amprodude

Cork were better team on paper then KK in 2003 All ireland final and with poor radar malfunction especially from Gardiner that day cost them the Final. That KK team werent a patch on what was to come from 2006 onwards.

nice_guy80

Amprodude wrote: »

The Kerry 1997 team was one of the poorest Kerry teams ever to win the All Ireland.

beat a poor Mayo team in the final
beat Cavan in the semi who hadn't won an Ulster in decades
and beat Clare in the Munster final.

Fr Tod Umptious

Amprodude wrote: »

Colm the Gooch Cooper will never win a AI club medal with Dr Crokes and Dr Crokes wont win a club All Ireland. 1992 is where it will remain.

If Crokes win the Kerry Club Championship, and if a Divisional team win the County Championship then Crokes will compete in the Muster Club Championship.

So it's not impossible that they win an All Ireland Club in 2014/2015

as for Gooch, well that's another story....

WesternZulu

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

The hurley & sliotar is far, far harder to control and aim than a much larger ball you can kick with your foot. try hitting a size 5 with the hurley and come back.

It's simple physics!
You're hitting a heavier smaller ball in hurling with more force so therefore wind is loss less of a issue than it is in football.
Distance also becomes less of a factor.

Therefore, it's easier to score.
It's no coincidence that hurling is higher scoring with less wides even when factoring in the speed of the game.

randd1

Amprodude wrote: »

Cork were better team on paper then KK in 2003 All ireland final and with poor radar malfunction especially from Gardiner that day cost them the Final. That KK team werent a patch on what was to come from 2006 onwards.

No team were a patch on what Kilkenny team was to come in 2006.

And 2003 was a reversal of 99, Kilkenny much the stronger side that day but wayward shooting kept Cork in it to get the victory. In those years Kilkenny and Cork arguably lost the ones they should have won.

Slieveardagh

If Kilkenny had not won the All Ireland in 2003 Brian Cody would have been removed as manager for his decision to drop Charlie Carter. Therefore possible the greatest era of dominance the game has ever seen may never have happened

keane2097

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

If scoring in football was more skillful, they surely they should be able to take scores from that far out? The hurley & sliotar is far, far harder to control and aim than a much larger ball you can kick with your foot. try hitting a size 5 with the hurley and come back.

I'm not sure what the correct answer is to the question, but this tortured bit of reasoning is an affront to logic.

WesternZulu

That Mayo are one of the mentally strongest counties out there; not the chokers they are widely perceived to be!

In every all Ireland they have played since 1951 they have been massive underdogs bar against Kerry in 1997 where they were beaten by probably the best individual performances ever in an AIF.

Other than that they have been huge outsiders in all of the other finals they have played.
They have never gone in as big favourites and lost...what essentially a 'choker' is.

In fact I think their resilience to keep coming back time aand time again to try and win shows a great mental toughness.

(Some day )

nice_guy80

WesternZulu wrote: »

That Mayo are one of the mentally strongest counties out there; not the chokers they are widely perceived to be!

In every all Ireland they have played since 1951 they have been massive underdogs bar against Kerry in 1997 where they were beaten by probably the best individual performances ever in an AIF.

Other than that they have been huge outsiders in all of the other finals they have played.
They have never gone in as big favourites and lost...what essentially a 'choker' is.

In fact I think their resilience to keep coming back time aand time again to try and win shows a great mental toughness.

(Some day )

Ahem, were they massive underdogs in 2006 or 2004?

WesternZulu

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Ahem, were they massive underdogs in 2006 or 2004?

Definitely...that Kerry team was one of the best ever

Corcaigh84

I don't think there's much to be gained in discussing in which sport is it harder to score in - I'd take the faster higher scoring game any day.

Imagine the poor unfortunates who had to sit through Rosommon v Cavan at the weekend, 0-3 to 0-2 at half time.

WesternZulu

thefloss wrote: »

I don't think there's much to be gained in discussing in which sport is it harder to score in - I'd take the faster higher scoring game any day.

Imagine the poor unfortunates who had to sit through Rosommon v Cavan at the weekend, 0-3 to 0-2 at half time.

There have been plenty of bad hurling games as well you know.

Corcaigh84

No one would dispute that but I would argue that a bad hurling match is far more watchable than a bad football one

blackwhite

thefloss wrote: »

No one would dispute that but I would argue that a bad hurling match is far more watchable than a bad football one

Come to Sligo and watch a club hurling match - you'll quickly change your mind!

nice_guy80

blackwhite wrote: »

Come to Sligo and watch a club hurling match - you'll quickly change your mind!

I've seen club football games in Sligo.
I hope the hurling couldn't be any worse

DoctaDee

Have the indelible memory of Tyrone/Monaghan in a junior hurling game as the curtain raiser to Dublin/Derry in Clones to live with the rest of my life

Nidgeweasel

WesternZulu wrote: »

That Mayo are one of the mentally strongest counties out there; not the chokers they are widely perceived to be!

In every all Ireland they have played since 1951 they have been massive underdogs bar against Kerry in 1997 where they were beaten by probably the best individual performances ever in an AIF.

Other than that they have been huge outsiders in all of the other finals they have played.
They have never gone in as big favourites and lost...what essentially a 'choker' is.

In fact I think their resilience to keep coming back time aand time again to try and win shows a great mental toughness.

(Some day )

Pity there's no All Irelands handed out for mental toughness.

savannahkat

Because hurling is so fast the lines men should be issued with whistles and their input increased especially with regard to off the ball incidents. The umpires too should be issued with whistles. It is when play is at the far end of the field that most of the dirty, sly strokes are pulled. There is no need for a second referee if the duties of the lines men in particular and the umpires to a lesser degree are increased.

Mal-Adjusted

WesternZulu wrote: »

It's simple physics!
You're hitting a heavier smaller ball in hurling with more force so therefore wind is loss less of a issue than it is in football.

only if you're near the goals. when taking a shot from halfway across the field, which is often the case, wind can severely hinder you.

WesternZulu wrote: »

Distance also becomes less of a factor.

wrong. greater distance means you have to be far more accurate with your shots, as you have a far smaller margin for error than football.

Therefore, it's easier to score.
It's no coincidence that hurling is higher scoring with less wides even when factoring in the speed of the game.[/QUOTE]
link?

Dirty Dingus McGee

Anyone that makes the argument that is more difficult to score in hurling is hepped up on goofballs.Regularly there are scores from midfield and beyond in hurling.

Domnhall O'Donovan scored on the run from the wing on the 45 to tie up last years all ireland it was a great score but it would be virtually impossible for even the best forwards in football to get a score like that yet a corner back could do it in hurling.

Anything outside of 35 metres in football and its quite difficult to score as that is about the limit where some players have to sacrifice accuracy for enough power to get the ball over the bar which is why you regularly see balls drop short.

nice_guy80

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Anyone that makes the argument that is more difficult to score in hurling is hepped up on goofballs.Regularly there are scores from midfield and beyond in hurling.

Domnhall O'Donovan scored on the run from the wing on the 45 to tie up last years all ireland it was a great score but it would be virtually impossible for even the best forwards in football to get a score like that yet a corner back could do it in hurling.

Anything outside of 35 metres in football and its quite difficult to score as that is about the limit where some players have to sacrifice accuracy for enough power to get the ball over the bar which is why you regularly see balls drop short.

the newer sliotars with the rubber/plastic cores travel so much further than the older sliotars

Realt Dearg Sec

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the newer sliotars with the rubber/plastic cores travel so much further than the older sliotars

High as a kite everybody! Goofballs!

Fr Tod Umptious

WesternZulu wrote: »

That Mayo are one of the mentally strongest counties out there; not the chokers they are widely perceived to be!

In every all Ireland they have played since 1951 they have been massive underdogs bar against Kerry in 1997 where they were beaten by probably the best individual performances ever in an AIF.

Other than that they have been huge outsiders in all of the other finals they have played.
They have never gone in as big favourites and lost...what essentially a 'choker' is.

In fact I think their resilience to keep coming back time aand time again to try and win shows a great mental toughness.

(Some day )

I'd agree with most of that, but I don't think they were huge outsiders in 2012, 2013.
But they did have the misfortune to meet juggernauts those years, just as they did in 2004, 2006.

I think it's better to say that Mayo fail to perform above expectations in finals, where as other teams sometimes do , 2013 Clare hurlers for example.

Going by your definition of 'choker' the only ones I can find in recent seasons to match that is actually Kerry

In both 2005 and 2008 they went in as favourites v Tyrone (8/13 according in this parish in 2008) yet they lost both.

In 2011 they also went in as favourites and managed to lose after having a 4pt lead with 7 minutes to go.

Obviously they won 5 All Ireland’s in the '00s but on paper they 'choked' in three more

Nidgeweasel

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'd agree with most of that, but I don't think they were huge outsiders in 2012, 2013.
But they did have the misfortune to meet juggernauts those years, just as they did in 2004, 2006.

I think it's better to say that Mayo fail to perform above expectations in finals, where as other teams sometimes do , 2013 Clare hurlers for example.

Going by your definition of 'choker' the only ones I can find in recent seasons to match that is actually Kerry

In both 2005 and 2008 they went in as favourites v Tyrone (8/13 according in this parish in 2008) yet they lost both.

In 2011 they also went in as favourites and managed to lose after having a 4pt lead with 7 minutes to go.

Obviously they won 5 All Ireland’s in the '00s but on paper they 'choked' in three more

Those two Tyrone finals are massive blotches on their CV.

square ball

Scoring is easier in hurling than football. Once you make a decent connection the ball travels more accurately. Scores are almost becoming to easy and I think they may have to make the ball slightly bigger/heavier.

65's are now almost guaranteed points for even club players and I think they should be taken from your own 65.

Football is great to watch. I enjoyed Armagh and Tyrone in the early 00's. They were extremely skillful and mixed short and long passing better than anyone else.

Watching rows and off the ball stuff is entertaining.

Gary Brennan from Clare is the best midfielder in the country.

Football is more popular than hurling.

rockbeast

square ball wrote: »

Scoring is easier in hurling than football. Once you make a decent connection the ball travels more accurately. Scores are almost becoming to easy and I think they may have to make the ball slightly bigger/heavier.

Or maybe "Square"?

Everything's relative, Square, and very few scores in either code are easily attained.

I wish a lot of people would quit thinking the two sports have a lot in common because they both use 15 men and are played on a pitch with the almost exact same specifications (for rules)...:mad:

chubba1984

square ball wrote: »

Gary Brennan from Clare is the best midfielder in the country.

No arguments....It's a pity he doesn't get the credit he deserves as most people haven't seen him play live. Kildare game at the weekend should be a good showcase for his talent.s

Mal-Adjusted

square ball wrote: »

Scoring is easier in hurling than football.

I doubt anyone could argue that either

bruschi

why would people want scores made to be harder got in hurling? I love watching high scoring tit for tat games like the Wexford Clare ones the last 2 weeks.

keane2097

bruschi wrote: »

why would people want scores made to be harder got in hurling? I love watching high scoring tit for tat games like the Wexford Clare ones the last 2 weeks.

Yeah the rate of scoring is definitely one of the things that make hurling great to watch. The fact that players can score seemingly from anywhere too, some of the points that go over look amazing.

adrian522

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah the rate of scoring is definitely one of the things that make hurling great to watch. The fact that players can score seemingly from anywhere too, some of the points that go over look amazing.

They're great scores when they go over, potshots when they go wide.

Hulk Hands

WesternZulu wrote: »

That Mayo are one of the mentally strongest counties out there; not the chokers they are widely perceived to be!

In every all Ireland they have played since 1951 they have been massive underdogs bar against Kerry in 1997 where they were beaten by probably the best individual performances ever in an AIF.

Other than that they have been huge outsiders in all of the other finals they have played.
They have never gone in as big favourites and lost...what essentially a 'choker' is.

In fact I think their resilience to keep coming back time aand time again to try and win shows a great mental toughness.

(Some day )

Massive underdogs and huge outsiders?? They were 11/10 shots in last years final. Something similar I think in 1996, favs in 97, 6/4 shots in 12 and weren't huge outsiders in 89. The only years that even come close to what you're describing is 04 and 06.

iDave

Interesting championship structure proposals from Ciaran Whelan

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/ciaran-whelan-championship-structure-1572699-Jul2014/

keane2097

adrian522 wrote: »

They're great scores when they go over, potshots when they go wide.

That's largely the difference between a good game to watch and a bad one really I suppose.

WesternZulu

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Massive underdogs and huge outsiders?? They were 11/10 shots in last years final. Something similar I think in 1996, favs in 97, 6/4 shots in 12 and weren't huge outsiders in 89. The only years that even come close to what you're describing is 04 and 06.

IN 1989 they came from nowhere to get to the AIF.
Cork were playing in their third consecutive final!

In 2012 and 2013 they were playing the in form teams of the championship.

The main point of my argument stands in any case - in that they have never gone into an AIF as being the team to beat, the undeniable favourites.
Therefore, they have never really choked.

nice_guy80

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

High as a kite everybody! Goofballs!

no its not.
sliotars are travelling much further than they used to.
half backs and midfielders scoring points from their own half

enda1

I think it's great that players can score from their own half. It encourages defending to take place all over the field, and makes the loading of the half back and full back lines less likely in hurling. It encourages a close fought game in all areas of the pitch.

Also it's a great skill to behold.

Fr Tod Umptious

iDave wrote: »

Interesting championship structure proposals from Ciaran Whelan

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/ciaran-whelan-championship-structure-1572699-Jul2014/

Sounds somewhat interesting.
Not sure how putting 12 teams in a B championship would fly.
With the qualifier setup as it currently is a ‘weaker’ county can progress if they get a good draw, remember Fermanagh and Wexford have been to All Ireland Semi-finals in the current setup.

If you are going to realign the counties for fixture making as Whelan suggests then the first thing you do is keep the current ‘provincial’ + qualifiers structure with 4 x 8 ‘provinces’ before you start messing with league structures etc.

Also I don’t agree with this assertion that the provincial championships have lost their appeal.

In the previous open draw qualifiers (i.e no A and B sides) if at least one province held a strong AI contender then all other realistic contenders needed to win their province to avoid the risk of meeting that contender in the quarter final
Plus winning your province give you far more control of your own plans, which is all important in modern day preparation.
It’s not by accident that in ’11, ’12 and ‘13 only one of the All Ireland semi-finalists has come from the back door.

Also I think we should have two stickys for Alternative Championship structures, one for football and one for hurling.

freddiek

keane2097 wrote: »

.

you already posted that. Why repeat it?

keane2097

freddiek wrote: »

you already posted that. Why repeat it?

No reason really.

freddiek

keane2097 wrote: »

No reason really.

i may be wrong but it looks like u deliberately posted it again as a blunt reaction to what I said.

could u not think of a better argument instead of recycling an earlier opinion??

if you're intimating that i'm a hurling snob, that couldn't be further from the truth as i've never held a hurley in my hand competitively. People who enjoy watching the game a lot more than football are not "hurling snobs"

and to finish a post with a statement such as "nobody cares what they think" is really childish.

keane2097

freddiek wrote: »

i may be wrong but it looks like u deliberately posted it again as a blunt reaction to what I said.

could u not think of a better argument instead of recycling an earlier opinion??

if you're intimating that i'm a hurling snob, that couldn't be further from the truth as i've never held a hurley in my hand competitively. People who enjoy watching the game a lot more than football are not "hurling snobs"

and to finish a post with a statement such as "nobody cares what they think" is really childish.

I honestly couldn't care less what you think.