Unpopular GAA opinions you hold

aveytare

I hate when someone's a flavour of the month. One minute it's the Gooch, next it's Diarmuid Connolly, then it's Colm O'Neill, Michael Murphy, Jamie Clarke, James O'Donague, they're all great players.

Flukey

yohan the great wrote: »

Maybe it should but a lot of Tipp people aren't interested in football

Well, that brings us back to the point made, and the bias to Hurling making you say it is the home of Hurling. If the foundation of the GAA being in Tipperary is the basis for it being the home of Hurling, then no matter what the level of interest in Tipperary there is in football, it is the home of football too. So is it the location, or the interest of the people that makes it the home of Hurling? Kilkenny have good claim to that, as Kerry might have for football. The truth is though, that the home of Hurling is not Tipperary or Kilkenny or Cork. The home of Hurling, and indeed football, is Ireland. That is as far as you have to go, no more specific than that.

Mal-Adjusted

The way i always heard it was Thurles as the home of the GAA, not tipp in general or any specific sport. And just to be pedantic, Hurling wasn't born in Tipperary (as far as we know) the governing body was.

TCDStudent1

yohan the great wrote: »

If Tipp never won an All Ireland since the GAA was founded it would still be the home of hurling. Its where the GAA was founded and will always be the home of the GAA

Hurling existed before the GAA. Tipp can claim to be the home of the GAA. But not the home of hurling.

I dislike the term anyway. A sport does not have a home.

TCDStudent1

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Are they really educated enough especially when they are not monitored to any serious level regarding use of illegal substances?
And yes there is no financial reward but there is reward of making top teams especially if doing so to make senior inter county and all that surrounds that
While 2 referees would be great id prefer at first to have much better co-operation and communication between the current set of officals rather than add an additional voice.

Totally agree on second point. Consistent games virtually always better than constant training with no real match practice.

Wouldnt agree on the 2 referees at all. We already have inconsistency between referees from game to game. It was cause chaos if there was such inconsistency in the one game. This is something that would pop up in the IR too as the australian ref and Irish ref would often interpret the rules differently

hairyhaliom

yohan the great wrote: »

If Tipp never won an All Ireland since the GAA was founded it would still be the home of hurling. Its where the GAA was founded and will always be the home of the GAA

Counties never even existed when the game was first played in its early forms, for all anyone knows it could have been first played in the lands of modern Monaghan.

feargale

A genuinely unpopular opinion: Why should a player not get credit for a shot that hits the crossbar? Over is a point, under is 3 points. Split the difference and give it two points. Hawkeye will be busy!

Dirty Dingus McGee

nice_guy80 wrote: »

really?
are you talking club or county?

Both.

ArielAtom

Going back to USA names for counties, we could see:

Kilkenny We Don't Fund Football but Spend all our money on the hurling!!!!

BnB

feargale wrote: »

A genuinely unpopular opinion: Why should a player not get credit for a shot that yits the crossbar? Over is a point, under is 3 points. Split the difference and give it two points. Hawkeye will be busy!

Would they also get 1/2 a point of the hit the post (Above the cross bar) and 1 1/2 points if they hit the post below the crossbar...?

freedominacup

ArielAtom wrote: »

Going back to USA names for counties, we could see:

Kilkenny We Don't Fund Football but Spend all our money on the hurling!!!!

There should be a substantial cut in funding for counties with big discrepancies in funding and performance between their inter county hurling and football teams.

castletownman

Yes Dublin's substitutes have made an impact off the bench this year but how many of their scores were actual game-changing scores considering their margin of victories in their championship campaign so far? One might argue Costello's goal against Wexford finally killed off the Wexford challenge, but those anyone really believe that they were in trouble had that goal not gone in? It was basically target practise by the time they came on in each of the three games to date. In contrast, Mayo were on the ropes somewhat against Roscommon and Moran came off the bench to make a tangible difference and kicked two points. Not half the hype afterwards though.

It'll be a different kettle of fish altogether should they find themselves 2-3 points down in the closing few minutes against the likes of Monaghan or Donegal. You'd swear they were the only top inter-county ever to have competition for places the way the media build them up.

Tombo2001

castletownman wrote: »

Yes Dublin's substitutes have made an impact off the bench this year but how many of their scores were actual game-changing scores considering their margin of victories in their championship campaign so far? One might argue Costello's goal against Wexford finally killed off the Wexford challenge, but those anyone really believe that they were in trouble had that goal not gone in? It was basically target practise by the time they came on in each of the three games to date. In contrast, Mayo were on the ropes somewhat against Roscommon and Moran came off the bench to make a tangible difference and kicked two points. Not half the hype afterwards though.

It'll be a different kettle of fish altogether should they find themselves 2-3 points down in the closing few minutes against the likes of Monaghan or Donegal. You'd swear they were the only top inter-county ever to have competition for places the way the media build them up.

The reality is that they wont find themselves three points down to either of those teams with a few minutes to go. There is no way any other team will come close to Dublin this year.

The only comparable in my living memory is the Kilkenny team of 2007 and 2008.

You are right of course, every team has competition for places. The difference however is that competition for places is what keeps the Dublin players motivated; otherwise they would get complacent. Kilkenny were the exact same in 2007/08.

If Dublin play Monaghan, there is absolutely massive motivation for Monaghan. Less so for Dublin. Having hammered Meath off the park, I would say there are only three teams in Ireland Dublin could get even get half nervous about playing againts - Mayo, Kerry and Donegal.

nice_guy80

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The reality is that they wont find themselves three points down to either of those teams with a few minutes to go. There is no way any other team will come close to Dublin this year.

The only comparable in my living memory is the Kilkenny team of 2007 and 2008.

You are right of course, every team has competition for places. The difference however is that competition for places is what keeps the Dublin players motivated; otherwise they would get complacent. Kilkenny were the exact same in 2007/08.

If Dublin play Monaghan, there is absolutely massive motivation for Monaghan. Less so for Dublin. Having hammered Meath off the park, I would say there are only three teams in Ireland Dublin could get even get half nervous about playing againts - Mayo, Kerry and Donegal.

Dublin won't get to the final this year.
One poor performance and they'll be out

Tombo2001

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Dublin won't get to the final this year.
One poor performance and they'll be out

If you're talking about football.....one poor performance and they'll win by 3 points instead of 10. This team is imho by some distance the best Gaelic Football team ever, and there is a huge gap between themselves and second best.

davidfitz22

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Dublin won't get to the final this year.
One poor performance and they'll be out

Isn't that the same for any team? that just sounds like wishful thinking considering how they seem to be the most consistant team in the country at the minute.

Hibbeler

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If you're talking about football.....one poor performance and they'll win by 3 points instead of 10. This team is imho by some distance the best Gaelic Football team ever, and there is a huge gap between themselves and second best.

Big statement there! Best team ever you say? I do agree that Dublin will more than likely win the championship again this year and that they won't be troubled too much.

But I also think that part of their dominance in the last couple of years is at least partially down to many of the 'traditional' competitors being at the bottom of their cycles or on the way down. Kerry and Tyrone for example not being as good as their own teams of a few years ago for example. Also teams like Meath and Galway haven't really done anything of note since 2001 and are very much playing catch up still.

In short, Dublin have an extremely good team made to look better by everyone else being poorer than usual

Tombo2001

Hibbeler wrote: »

Big statement there! Best team ever you say? I do agree that Dublin will more than likely win the championship again this year and that they won't be troubled too much.

But I also think that part of their dominance in the last couple of years is at least partially down to many of the 'traditional' competitors being at the bottom of their cycles or on the way down. Kerry and Tyrone for example not being as good as their own teams of a few years ago for example. Also teams like Meath and Galway haven't really done anything of note since 2001 and are very much playing catch up still.

In short, Dublin have an extremely good team made to look better by everyone else being poorer than usual

Yes, I do say it.

I am definitely not saying they are the most talented team ever, but the talented teams of the past - Kerry 1970s, Dublin 1970s, Meath late 1980s (I know they were rough and tumble, but had some great players) - never came anywhere near the physical shape that the current Dubs are in, they'd have been run off the park. And the most physical teams of the past - I'd probably look to Armagh, Tyrone of the mid 2000s here - (I) were still not as physically strong as the current Dubs and (ii) didnt have the same depth of talent.

I disagree with your point on the others being weak. I believe the current Mayo and Donegal teams are every bit as good as Tyrone and Kerry from the 2000s. Thats my own personal view.....I think Mayo is a fantastic team, best they've ever had by some distance.

Disagree with me if you wish.......

MaroonAndGreen

Dont know if many will remember this....

But Kieran Donaghy's point to level the game in the 70th minute of the Kerry-Dublin All-Ireland Final is probably one of the best points ive ever seen, taking the circumstances into consideration.

Skip to 9:15

MaroonAndGreen

Also, this current Dublin team is not as nailed on for the All-Ireland as people would try and make you think.. they are 4/9 in most bookies to win it and that is possibly the worst price ive ever seen on any market.

Dublin's likely route to Sam Maguire is:

Quarter v Monaghan
Semi v Donegal
Final v Mayo/Kerry

Dublin to win them three games and all you get for that treble is 4/9. That actually translates to Dublin being at least 1/5 in each of them games. Dublin 1/5 (which means an 83% chance) to beat Donegal or Mayo or Kerry???

Ridiculous.

You take Dublin at odds on and your a fool IMO.

Flem31

freedominacup wrote: »

There should be a substantial cut in funding for counties with big discrepancies in funding and performance between their inter county hurling and football teams.

I think that would be a pointless step.
It assumes that all counties have similar abilities in both hurling and football.

And how would the performance be measured.....seeing as only 15 counties in 2014 were allowed compete in the All Ireland Hurling Championships, that makes comparison's even more difficult.

I don't like it either, when counties abandon either football or hurling.......but I can understand why it's done.

Moneymaker

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Dont know if many will remember this....

But Kieran Donaghy's point to level the game in the 70th minute of the Kerry-Dublin All-Ireland Final is probably one of the best points ive ever seen, taking the circumstances into consideration.

Skip to 9:15

I agree with you, it was an incredible point.

Kevin Nolan kicked a superb score too right after we got the goal.

Not a very high scoring game, but it had some fantastic scores.

feargale

BnB wrote: »

Would they also get 1/2 a point of the hit the post (Above the cross bar) and 1 1/2 points if they hit the post below the crossbar...?

YES! YES! And 1 point if the ball hits the spot where the crossbar and the sidepost meet, and goes wide, because (1 1/2 + 1/2) ÷ 2 = 1. And 1/4 point for sending the ball wide. And if it hits the corner flag twice it's wide the first time and a sideline ball the second time. Refs should be issued with pocket computers. And the authorities should put their money where their mouths are where the square ball is concerned. Why keep talking about it while playing with a round ball?
Then there's the jersey pull, which has become prevalent since the advent of the Celtic Tiger when clubs found that their budget could accomodate replacing jerseys. If the person pulling the jersey is left with a piece of it in his hand, should he be allowed to keep it as a souvenir? Is it good prize of war?

RoyalCelt

My latest unpopular opinion is that we let Dublin hammer us so they reach cockiness levels over 9000 and take Monaghan for granted in the quarters. Monaghan's defensive style overcomes an unprepared Dublin while Meath go on to beat Armagh, Donegal, Monaghan to make the final v Mayo which pretty much means you're champions.

AugustusMinimus

There is no longer a big 3 in hurling, rather a big 2.

Tipp have fallen back dramatically off the pack. They've won 4 All Ireland since 1971. To put it in context, Kilkenny have won 17 All-Irelands in the same period, Cork have won 9. Clare have won 3 All-Ireland since 1995 and you'd insult a Tipp man if you'd say both counties have comparable records in the modern game.

wicklowwonder

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There is no longer a big 3 in hurling, rather a big 2.

Tipp have fallen back dramatically off the pack. They've won 4 All Ireland since 1971. To put it in context, Kilkenny have won 17 All-Irelands in the same period, Cork have won 9. Clare have won 3 All-Ireland since 1995 and you'd insult a Tipp man if you'd say both counties have comparable records in the modern game.

Very interesting stat that!

DoctaDee

RoyalCelt wrote: »

My latest unpopular opinion is that we let Dublin hammer us so they reach cockiness levels over 9000 and take Monaghan for granted in the quarters. Monaghan's defensive style overcomes an unprepared Dublin while Meath go on to beat Armagh, Donegal, Monaghan to make the final v Mayo which pretty much means you're champions.

Is it unpopular opinions or a make a wish thread

Corcaigh84

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Dont know if many will remember this....

But Kieran Donaghy's point to level the game in the 70th minute of the Kerry-Dublin All-Ireland Final is probably one of the best points ive ever seen, taking the circumstances into consideration.

Skip to 9:15

5 handpasses and 1 kick is what I saw

MfMan

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If you're talking about football.....one poor performance and they'll win by 3 points instead of 10. This team is imho by some distance the best Gaelic Football team ever, and there is a huge gap between themselves and second best.[/QUOTE]

The fittest and most athletic, maybe. In terms of ability and pure footballing skill, Kerry 75 - 86, Galway 98 - 01 light years ahead.

Nidgeweasel

The best ever.:rolleyes: What is the obsession with jumping to conclusions - "WE'RE THE BEST, THE BEST EVER IT'S US, NOBODY COMES CLOSE."

Dublin have won 2 all Irelands in 3 years. One playing the 'style' they are receiving their plaudits for. I wouldn't laud the 2011 victory in the same way as I would last year.

Give it a few years and then judge them.

Some of the 70's and 80's Kerry Boys have 8 All Irelands. The last batch played in 6 finals in a row. Winning 4.

Long way to go yet.

DoctaDee

I'd agree that this Dublin team is too current to give any objective view on their greatness. The team probably has a shelf life of another 3-4 years in its current make up.

It is without doubt the best Dublin team I've ever seen, they've been lauded by the majoriy of people for their playing style, borrowing the soccer term of total football. The benchmark for greatness will be dominance. David Hickey predicted Dublin to dominate for the next 10 years, but that domination he spoke of related to them contesting Semis and Finals and in itself doesn't guarantee you win an AI. The one great team in my lifetime has been the Kerry team of 70's & 80's. The fact that if you sent them out on the pitch in their prime against this Dublin team that I'd expect Dublin to put double figures on them is irrelevant.

The best football team I've seen, is the Kerry boys of the noughties and if there was to be a football game as a match up that would be the comparator for me.

While I think of it my unpopular opinion- the 06/07 finals would've been a far better spectacle if contested by Kerry/Dublin .. same winner mind you :rolleyes:

Flem31

MfMan wrote: »

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If you're talking about football.....one poor performance and they'll win by 3 points instead of 10. This team is imho by some distance the best Gaelic Football team ever, and there is a huge gap between themselves and second best.[/QUOTE]

The fittest and most athletic, maybe. In terms of ability and pure footballing skill, Kerry 75 - 86, Galway 98 - 01 light years ahead.

Galway 98-01 on a par with Kerry 75-86 and above all other teams in history ?
If that Galway team were that good, then they must be the greatest underachievers in GAA history with only 2 All Irelands, the second one which was achieved via the back door.

castletownman

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There is no longer a big 3 in hurling, rather a big 2.

Tipp have fallen back dramatically off the pack. They've won 4 All Ireland since 1971. To put it in context, Kilkenny have won 17 All-Irelands in the same period, Cork have won 9. Clare have won 3 All-Ireland since 1995 and you'd insult a Tipp man if you'd say both counties have comparable records in the modern game.

Agree 100%. And to expand on your point further, Wexford hurling is not back amongst the elite either. People can point to the fact that they beat the reigning AI champions after two much exciting days, but the reality is they barely struggled over the line against a side that a) didn't have the same hunger as last year b) were reduced to 14 men in the first half both days and c) were experimenting tactically somewhat (either by reverting away from their usual sweeper system, or trying new lads in new positions). Waterford are in rebuilding mode too and didn't appear to have the same drive as Clare even when Dunford scored two goals.

A proper reflection of their form is Wexford's rather comfortable home defeat to Dublin, considering the subsequent heavy defeats the Dubs suffered.

As an aside, the Wexford footballers scored more and conceded less against the Dublin footballers (regarded by many as the GOAT) than the hurlers did against Limerick on Sunday (with many within the county quietly confident that Wexford would win all week). I know it's easier to score in hurling, but surely 1-11 in a QF is one of the lowest tallies in recent times? And tiredness can't be blamed for hitting their first (bad) wide after 22 seconds, and for the ease with which Limerick broke through even early on.

One last point, there will be no hammerings in either of the four football 1/4's coming up, although that is probably regarded as a common consensus.

robbiezero

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There is no longer a big 3 in hurling, rather a big 2.

Tipp have fallen back dramatically off the pack. They've won 4 All Ireland since 1971. To put it in context, Kilkenny have won 17 All-Irelands in the same period, Cork have won 9. Clare have won 3 All-Ireland since 1995 and you'd insult a Tipp man if you'd say both counties have comparable records in the modern game.

Of course there is a big 3 in hurling.
34,30,26,7,6,6,4,4,4,2.
That is the number of All-Irelands won by counties ordered 1 to 10. That stat has a suspicious look of a big 3 to me.

1971 is an arbitrary date and means nothing. Tipp have 9 since 1960, Cork have 11. Tipp have 1 All-Ireland in the last 8 years. Cork have 0.

There is a big 3 whether you like it or not and there will be a big 3 for another 2 decades at least.

AugustusMinimus

robbiezero wrote: »

Of course there is a big 3 in hurling.
34,30,26,7,6,6,4,4,4,2.
That is the number of All-Irelands won by counties ordered 1 to 10. That stat has a suspicious look of a big 3 to me.

1971 is an arbitrary date and means nothing. Tipp have 9 since 1960, Cork have 11. Tipp have 1 All-Ireland in the last 8 years. Cork have 0.

There is a big 3 whether you like it or not and there will be a big 3 for another 2 decades at least.

Odd post to say the least. You quote All-Ireland's won by Tipperary back in the 60s as being proof of their membership of the big 3 and yet you completely ignore All-Irelands won by Kerry, Laois and London, presumably because they were won in the distant past.

The truth of course is that Tipperary have vastly under performed in the past 40 years or more. Went without a Munster championship title for 16 years (a figure which Cork or Kilkenny have never even approached).

It could also be argued that both their 1989 and 2001 All-Ireland wins were soft All-Irelands. Played a number of poor teams in 1989. They played a Galway team in the semi-final who weren't in a right frame of mind due to the whole Tony Keady ban affair. 2001 brought Tipp an All-Ireland without having to play either Cork or Kilkenny on their way to the title.

keane2097

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Odd post to say the least. You quote All-Ireland's won by Tipperary back in the 60s as being proof of their membership of the big 3 and yet you completely ignore All-Irelands won by Kerry, Laois and London, presumably because they were won in the distant past.

You seem to have utterly missed his point.

The Lost Sheep

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Odd post to say the least. You quote All-Ireland's won by Tipperary back in the 60s as being proof of their membership of the big 3 and yet you completely ignore All-Irelands won by Kerry, Laois and London, presumably because they were won in the distant past.

The truth of course is that Tipperary have vastly under performed in the past 40 years or more. Went without a Munster championship title for 16 years (a figure which Cork or Kilkenny have never even approached).

It could also be argued that both their 1989 and 2001 All-Ireland wins were soft All-Irelands. Played a number of poor teams in 1989. They played a Galway team in the semi-final who weren't in a right frame of mind due to the whole Tony Keady ban affair. 2001 brought Tipp an All-Ireland without having to play either Cork or Kilkenny on their way to the title.

You completely missed the point. Tipperary are clearly a part of the big three. They have won nearly four times more all Irelands than the fourth most successful side.
Tipperary have vastly under performed, and not performed at all in some cases, in the past few decades but they are still one of the big three.

robbiezero

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Odd post to say the least. You quote All-Ireland's won by Tipperary back in the 60s as being proof of their membership of the big 3 and yet you completely ignore All-Irelands won by Kerry, Laois and London, presumably because they were won in the distant past.

The truth of course is that Tipperary have vastly under performed in the past 40 years or more. Went without a Munster championship title for 16 years (a figure which Cork or Kilkenny have never even approached).

It could also be argued that both their 1989 and 2001 All-Ireland wins were soft All-Irelands. Played a number of poor teams in 1989. They played a Galway team in the semi-final who weren't in a right frame of mind due to the whole Tony Keady ban affair. 2001 brought Tipp an All-Ireland without having to play either Cork or Kilkenny on their way to the title.

Kerry, Laois and London have 1 All-Ireland each. No matter when it was won, it wont enter into any calculations relating to the big 3.

Tipp have won an All-Ireland in every decade. No other county has done that.

Soft All-Irelands, right frame of mind blah blah ... bull****, you could do that with every team.

Tipp have not vastly under-performed in the last 40 years, poor maybe, but vastly underperform to me would indicate winning almost nothing. Why 40 years in any case? Lets take the last 5 years. Tipp and Kilkenny have contested 3 of those 5 All-Irelands. Cork have appeared in just 1. Tipps record in the last 5 years is second only to Kilkenny.

The Lost Sheep

robbiezero wrote: »

Kerry, Laois and London have 1 All-Ireland each. No matter when it was won, it wont enter into any calculations relating to the big 3.

Tipp have won an All-Ireland in every decade. No other county has done that.

Soft All-Irelands, right frame of mind blah blah ... bull****, you could do that with every team.

Tipp have not vastly under-performed in the last 40 years, poor maybe, but vastly underperform to me would indicate winning almost nothing. Why 40 years in any case? Lets take the last 5 years. Tipp and Kilkenny have contested 3 of those 5 All-Irelands. Cork have appeared in just 1. Tipps record in the last 5 years is second only to Kilkenny.

Tipp have by the standards they had set before and their record prior to 1970 vastly underperformed. 40 years as its a very large sample and 5 years is just too narrow. 5 years is just one generation maybe two generations of a team.

zombieHanalei

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

There is no longer a big 3 in hurling, rather a big 2.

Tipp have fallen back dramatically off the pack. They've won 4 All Ireland since 1971. To put it in context, Kilkenny have won 17 All-Irelands in the same period, Cork have won 9. Clare have won 3 All-Ireland since 1995 and you'd insult a Tipp man if you'd say both counties have comparable records in the modern game.

Why stop there? You could nearly go a step further and argue there is actually only a big 1!

Since 2000 Kilkenny have 9 All-Ireland and 8 league titles. Everyone else combined has 5 All-Irelands and 7 leagues.

(For the record; I accept/believe that there is in fact a "big 3")

Flem31

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You completely missed the point. Tipperary are clearly a part of the big three. They have won nearly four times more all Irelands than the fourth most successful side.
Tipperary have vastly under performed, and not performed at all in some cases, in the past few decades but they are still one of the big three.

From a numerical viewpoint, yes Tipp are part of the top 3 over 125 years, but to ignore the last forty years and their lack of success is incorrect.
To look at a comparison in English football, both Aston Villa and Sunderland have won more league titles than either Chelsea or Man City, yet neither are considered to be part of the Big 4 or 5 in English football.

robbiezero

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Tipp have by the standards they had set before and their record prior to 1970 vastly underperformed.

Ya fair enough. They have put out some poor teams in that time and have failed to extract the maximum from the good teams they have had i.e. the circa 1990 team and so far the circa 2010 team and maybe even Nicky English's team although I thought he got about as much as could be got out of what was only a reasonable Tipp side.

robbiezero

Flem31 wrote: »

From a numerical viewpoint, yes Tipp are part of the top 3 over 125 years, but to ignore the last forty years and their lack of success is incorrect.
To look at a comparison in English football, both Aston Villa and Sunderland have won more league titles than either Chelsea or Man City, yet neither are considered to be part of the Big 4 or 5 in English football.

Why put it at 40 years. If Aston Villa and Sunderland had won the league once and been 2nd twice in the last 5 years, they would probably be in the big 4. Besides I think the "Big 3" in terms of hurling is not meant in the same context as the "Big 4 or whatever" in English football. I think it is meant more in terms of tradition and All-Ireland record. If it was meant the same as English football, there would be no mention of a Big 3, just a Big 1.

AugustusMinimus

I don't understand the logic of claiming Tipp are part of the big 3 on the basis that they have the 3rd highest amount of All-Irelands. 85% of their All-Ireland were won 40 years ago and before.

Tipp have won 4 All-Irelands since then and to say they are still one of the big 3 is nonsense. Things change and Tipp's hurling stature and prowess has dropped, significantly. In the 1980s you could say Tipp had been underperforming for 15 years. It looks like a permanent fall in their fortunes now and it doesn't look like anything will be changing soon.

Saying Tipp is part of the top 3 would be like saying Austria is still a European power. It makes no sense in this day and age. None at all.

The Lost Sheep

Flem31 wrote: »

From a numerical viewpoint, yes Tipp are part of the top 3 over 125 years, but to ignore the last forty years and their lack of success is incorrect.
To look at a comparison in English football, both Aston Villa and Sunderland have won more league titles than either Chelsea or Man City, yet neither are considered to be part of the Big 4 or 5 in English football.

Tipperary have also been in a considerable number of finals etc in very recent times. They were absolutely terrible for years and couldn't buy wins but they are still part of the big 3 and im not ignoring their lack of success. Take since 1990 they have been in the 3rd most finals and are joint 3rd in terms of most AI wins.

keane2097

Flem31 wrote: »

From a numerical viewpoint, yes Tipp are part of the top 3 over 125 years, but to ignore the last forty years and their lack of success is incorrect.
To look at a comparison in English football, both Aston Villa and Sunderland have won more league titles than either Chelsea or Man City, yet neither are considered to be part of the Big 4 or 5 in English football.

What would be the "Big 4 or 5" in hurling so if we are to - for whatever reason - model ourselves on English football?

robbiezero

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I don't understand the logic of claiming Tipp are part of the big 3 on the basis that they have the 3rd highest amount of All-Irelands. 85% of their All-Ireland were won 40 years ago and before.

Tipp have won 4 All-Irelands since then and to say they are still one of the big 3 is nonsense. Things change and Tipp's hurling stature and prowess has dropped, significantly. In the 1980s you could say Tipp had been underperforming for 15 years. It looks like a permanent fall in their fortunes now and it doesn't look like anything will be changing soon.

Saying Tipp is part of the top 3 would be like saying Austria is still a European power. It makes no sense in this day and age. None at all.

Who are the top 3 then and what do you base it on? Will your criteria always remain at number of All-Irelands since 1971 or whatever suitable time frame would exclude Tipperary?

AugustusMinimus

keane2097 wrote: »

What would be the "Big 4 or 5" in hurling so if we are to - for whatever reason - model ourselves on English football?

I'd split hurling like this

Group 1
Kilkenny and Cork

Group 2
Tipperary

Group 3
Limerick and Wexford

Group 4
Clare, Galway and Offaly

Group 5
Waterford, Dublin and Antrim

This is taking both history and modern day accomplishments into account. 50:50 on both. The one I'm unsure about is whether Clare deserve to be in Group 3.

AugustusMinimus

robbiezero wrote: »

Who are the top 3 then and what do you base it on? Will your criteria always remain at number of All-Irelands since 1971 or whatever suitable time frame would exclude Tipperary?

There is now only a top 2 in my mind. Tipperary now lag behind as in my post above.

keane2097

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'd split hurling like this

Group 1
Kilkenny and Cork

Group 2
Tipperary

Group 3
Limerick, Galway and Wexford

Group 4
Clare and Offaly

Group 5
Waterford, Dublin and Antrim

This is taking both history and modern day accomplishments into account. 50:50 on both. The one I'm unsure about is whether Clare deserve to be in Group 3.

It seems like you're basically just moving your window of time around whatever way makes the argument that Cork are up with Kilkenny but Tipp aren't appear superficially credible.

It's nonsense.