Unpopular GAA opinions you hold

dxhound2005

Would it be unpopular to consider that the rules should apply equally whether it is one on one or fifteen on fifteen in a mass brawl? A referee and some other officials standing a few feet away from something like what happened in Armagh or Limerick this year should be able to pick out some individuals who dragged an opponent to the ground or aimed a kick or a punch. Black card and red card offences. He couldn't be blamed for not being able to see everything.

Instead of which we have commentators saying it's just handbags and shure what can the ref do. Thats just nonsense and it is compounded by the referees themselves usually showing a couple of yellow cards when the melee is over.

If the ref had to apply the rule by the book in sending Keegan off why does it go out the window when twenty players do a lot worse? It is a red card offence to contribute to a melee. We might have a few games at ten a side until the players get the message that mass brawls will not be given the fools pardon any more. But it would be worth it in the longer term. If things go on the way they are heading we will have a very serious injury and then the hand wringing will commence.

http://www.gaa.ie/about-the-gaa/rules-and-regulations/

[I]Immediate Ordering Off Infractions (Red Cards)

1. Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand, knee or head.
2. Kicking or attempting to kick with minimal force or with force or causing injury.
3. Behaving in any way which is dangerous to an opponent.
4. Spitting at an opponent.
5. Contributing to a melee.
6. Stamping.
7. Inflicting injury recklessly.
8. Abusive language towards a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official[/I].

Prop Joe

Eamonn Fitzmaurice is tactically naive,In many many games his tactics have failed.

Cork this year in the Munster final was an exception playing Declan O Sullivan as a Quarter Back

v Mayo twice this year tactics went out the window & Dublin last year was all the Gooch

In saying that though....Fitzmaurice i believe is a super man manager and install's belief in his players.

hurdles1

going to put mute button on the tv this weekend. every player/pundit interview we will have to listen to the same ****
over and over again...... suppose... suppose...suppose they have to include this word every sentence.
then we have the regulars.. stepping up to the plate.......dirty ball......match ups....were goin in....goin up.... physicality....
i suppose.....hype.....waiting in the long grass.... suppose suppose .. ah fcuk it give it one more suppose....
with the rail strike id say traffic will be crazy, the big question is. where are all the buses going to stop so a fella can
have a piss and an auld hang samwitch......

citykat

hurdles1 wrote: »

going to put mute button on the tv this weekend. every player/pundit interview we will have to listen to the same ****
over and over again...... suppose... suppose...suppose they have to include this word every sentence.
then we have the regulars.. stepping up to the plate.......dirty ball......match ups....were goin in....goin up.... physicality....
i suppose.....hype.....waiting in the long grass.... suppose suppose .. ah fcuk it give it one more suppose....
with the rail strike id say traffic will be crazy, the big question is. where are all the buses going to stop so a fella can
have a piss and an auld hang samwitch......

you forgot...hunger...

ProudDUB

citykat wrote: »

you forgot...hunger...

....and manliness

and

....shure there was no malice in it at all...

eyescreamcone

Who wants it more??

Ronie32

Ref was right to send off Lee Keegan, should never have been rescinded, a kick is a kick!

Realt Dearg Sec

Ronie32 wrote: »

Ref was right to send off Lee Keegan, should never have been rescinded, a kick is a kick!

Is that an unpopular opinion? I mean, I suppose when it comes to refereeing decisions, every opinion is unpopular. If they send someone off correctly we respond that 'he's not that type of player' or 'technically it was a red but it ruined the game', or my favourite, 'by the letter of the law the ref was right, but it wasn't a dirty game so he should have stayed'. If they don't send someone off who should have been then we say 'he should have been gone'. Sunday Game analysts are the worst for this. One week they will complain that the ref was 'making himself the most important person there' by blowing the whistle all day, and the following week the same analyst will have a whole clip show with a litany of small fouls that the ref failed to blow up. The analyst always looks clever and the ref always looks like a gimp.

And then we complain about the standards of reffing, while changing the standards every week. You have to love the Association in fairness.

EDIT: regarding what you wrote, you're obviously right. He kicked him. But he's not that type of player, there was no malice in it, it ruined the game as a spectacle, and the ref was wrong even though he was right. And then the CCCC or whoever went along with that, for no reason whatsoever that's within the rules.

keane2097

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Is that an unpopular opinion? I mean, I suppose when it comes to refereeing decisions, every opinion is unpopular. If they send someone off correctly we respond that 'he's not that type of player' or 'technically it was a red but it ruined the game', or my favourite, 'by the letter of the law the ref was right, but it wasn't a dirty game so he should have stayed'. If they don't send someone off who should have been then we say 'he should have been gone'. Sunday Game analysts are the worst for this. One week they will complain that the ref was 'making himself the most important person there' by blowing the whistle all day, and the following week the same analyst will have a whole clip show with a litany of small fouls that the ref failed to blow up. The analyst always looks clever and the ref always looks like a gimp.

And then we complain about the standards of reffing, while changing the standards every week. You have to love the Association in fairness.

EDIT: regarding what you wrote, you're obviously right. He kicked him. But he's not that type of player, there was no malice in it, it ruined the game as a spectacle, and the ref was wrong even though he was right. And then the CCCC or whoever went along with that, for no reason whatsoever that's within the rules.

You have the inevitable buffoonery of the same fans calling for common sense on the Sunday spitting fury over lack of consistency the following Saturday then.

Dots1982

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

it ruined the game as a spectacle, QUOTE]

eh no it didn't

BonnieSituation

I discount the values of All-Irelands won in the past... With the 80s barely being worthwhile, the 90s somewhat valuable. Pretty much anything before 2001 is scratched in my head.

Dots1982

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I discount the values of All-Irelands won in the past... With the 80s barely being worthwhile, the 90s somewhat valuable. Pretty much anything before 2001 is scratched in my head.

I agree with this in terms of analysing the game in the present day but not in terms of players and teams from any era before 2001 should be forgotten.

BonnieSituation

I would never discount the players. I always believe that the cream will rise to the top. Ring, Rackard and Ó Sé would still be class now.

MaroonAndGreen

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I would never discount the players. I always believe that the cream will rise to the top. Ring, Rackard and Ó Sé would still be class now.

Only if they got themselves in the same physical condition as today's top inter county players. Otherwise, they'd be fcuking eaten IMO.

Our games and players are way ahead of what theyve ever been

BonnieSituation

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Only if they got themselves in the same physical condition as today's top inter county players. Otherwise, they'd be fcuking eaten IMO.

Our games and players are way ahead of what theyve ever been

That's a given. As I said the cream always rises to the top.

If Páidí was playing today he would have the conditioning as that's the standard.

MaroonAndGreen

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That's a given. As I said the cream always rises to the top.

If Páidí was playing today he would have the conditioning as that's the standard.

But in looking back and comparing these players from different ages, do we apply the thinking that ''oh well they would be conditioned like today's players if they were around now'' or do we credit much of today's players as being better because they are better physically than the guys of 20-30 years ago?

Mountainlad

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

But in looking back and comparing these players from different ages, do we apply the thinking that ''oh well they would be conditioned like today's players if they were around now'' or do we credit much of today's players as being better because they are better physically than the guys of 20-30 years ago?

Not as black and white as that though. There are plenty of socio-economic factors at play there.

Even consider the Country is much wealthier, there is better knowledge now about physical conditioning. They train more often but going back to O'Sé's time anyway getting to training was probably even more difficult.

It's like people talking about the higher scores or pace of the game in hurling, but that has a lot to do with better pitches, hurleys and sliotars.

MaroonAndGreen

Mountainlad wrote: »

Not as black and white as that though. There are plenty of socio-economic factors at play there.

Even consider the Country is much wealthier, there is better knowledge now about physical conditioning. They train more often but going back to O'Sé's time anyway getting to training was probably even more difficult.

It's like people talking about the higher scores or pace of the game in hurling, but that has a lot to do with better pitches, hurleys and sliotars.

But what I mean is... the best players nowadays are better than the best in previous decades. Does it really matter why?

Mountainlad

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

But what I mean is... the best players nowadays are better than the best in previous decades. Does it really matter why?

I don't like the comparison of eras myself to be honest.

If even for the simple reason that most commentators weren't around to be able to compare the former set of players against nowadays.

I think any player/team should be compared to those that played in the same era, decade even rather than before because it's pretty irrelevant otherwise and not a like for like comparison.


Whoever made the point above about past achievements should be disregarded when it comes to judging a current group of players for a County, I couldn't agree more and yet the media's favourite word still seems to be tradition.

dxhound2005

Mountainlad wrote: »

Not as black and white as that though. There are plenty of socio-economic factors at play there.

Even consider the Country is much wealthier, there is better knowledge now about physical conditioning. They train more often but going back to O'Sé's time anyway getting to training was probably even more difficult.

It's like people talking about the higher scores or pace of the game in hurling, but that has a lot to do with better pitches, hurleys and sliotars.

If they are training more often they could be in contravention of Rule 11 which prohibits full time training. It was introduced in 1954 to stop teams going into full time training camps in the weeks before All Ireland finals. I know that Kerry and Cavan were "guilty" of this and probably others. When I hear people saying that GAA players are as fit as professional soccer players and they are professional in all but name it makes me wonder how this is achieved, if all of them are truely amateur. Full time training to me would be the equivalent timewise of what professional soccer players do.

Probably just another example of the rules being ignored like the one that says it is a red card to participate in a melee. All the discussion about the nuances of how various rules are being implemented by referees and this elephant in the room is being ignored.

CrabRevolution

"Not enough shocks in the championship lately" is like saying "I don't find enough money on the road".

Shocks are called shocks because they are rare, they are by most measurements not supposed to happen, and when they do it generally wasnt predicted.

Another thing that annoys me is that too many people seem to be determined not to let themselves enjoy the championship until they run out of excuses, and even when they do finally admit they've seen good thing, all they do is complain that it took them this long to enjoy it. For example:

After a shock result in provincial first round: "A disgrace, X obviously dont care about the provincials, what an awful champpionship"

After a shock result in Qualifiers: "Obviously X were focused on the provincial title and qualifiers mean nothing to them, what an awful championship"

After a shock in AI semi/quarter: "Great to see, but shame it took this long to happen, really was an awful championship wasnt it?"

Mountainlad

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If they are training more often they could be in contravention of Rule 11 which prohibits full time training. It was introduced in 1954 to stop teams going into full time training camps in the weeks before All Ireland finals. I know that Kerry and Cavan were "guilty" of this and probably others. When I hear people saying that GAA players are as fit as professional soccer players and they are professional in all but name it makes me wonder how this is achieved, if all of them are truely amateur. Full time training to me would be the equivalent timewise of what professional soccer players do.

Probably just another example of the rules being ignored like the one that says it is a red card to participate in a melee. All the discussion about the nuances of how various rules are being implemented by referees and this elephant in the room is being ignored.

Hmm...that's an interesting one. In 2008, Tony Griffin took a year out from his studies to concentrate on hurling. He was the only player I've ever known to basically do this. I guess players would be full time training so to speak in any foreign training camps they'd have.

Ronie32

Maor Foirnes/Runners deserve everything they get when they get involved in scraps on the pitch, shouldn't be there in the first place!

citykat

Mountainlad wrote: »

Hmm...that's an interesting one. In 2008, Tony Griffin took a year out from his studies to concentrate on hurling. He was the only player I've ever known to basically do this. I guess players would be full time training so to speak in any foreign training camps they'd have.

I read an article about your Eoin Kelly saying he quit his job in B & L to concentrate on hurling.
AFAIK Oisin McConville also quit working to concentrate on football also.
I'd say there's more but they probably kept it low profile.

citykat

Ronie32 wrote: »

Maor Foirnes/Runners deserve everything they get when they get involved in scraps on the pitch, shouldn't be there in the first place!

Nothing unpopular about that...

Ronie32

citykat wrote: »

Nothing unpopular about that...

What about all the fuss over the doctor and the Armagh player??

citykat

Ronie32 wrote: »

What about all the fuss over the doctor and the Armagh player??

Probably something to do with him looking like a rag doll. Just media driven BS.

Ronie32

citykat wrote: »

Probably something to do with him looking like a rag doll. Just media driven BS.

He was obviously at/saying something we didn't fully see. No player pushes a doctor to the ground for no good reason. Agree with you on the media.

Mountainlad

citykat wrote: »

I read an article about your Eoin Kelly saying he quit his job in B & L to concentrate on hurling.
AFAIK Oisin McConville also quit working to concentrate on football also.
I'd say there's more but they probably kept it low profile.

How long ago was that? Using the two above examples I wouldn't be advising anyone to do it.

Morte

2005 when he was captain I think. I recall him saying the county board gave him some part time work with summer camps.

citykat

Mountainlad wrote: »

How long ago was that? Using the two above examples I wouldn't be advising anyone to do it.

Yea mid noughties I think. Not sure how well it worked out for either of them tbh.

Mountainlad

citykat wrote: »

Yea mid noughties I think. Not sure how well it worked out for either of them tbh.

Kelly was very good around that time. He's not the kinda fella though that I'd want to have struggling to fill his days.

McConville's troubles have been well documented and I would imagine that having more time on his hands probably didn't help that situation. Think Griffin was still doing some farming at least.

freddiek

why does the GPA need to continue in existence??

============

has its aims and objectives at outset not been implemented more or less in full?

I'm struggling to think why there is still a need for the GPA outside of its own commercial agenda.

citykat

freddiek wrote: »

why does the GPA need to continue in existence??

============

has its aims and objectives at outset not been implemented more or less in full?

I'm struggling to think why there is still a need for the GPA outside of its own commercial agenda.

Donal Og would have to get a real job.

Bogsnorkler

citykat wrote: »

Donal Og would have to get a real job.

Is he not a chemical engineer with Pfizer or summit?

tastyt

Inter county players are not as fit as full time professional athletes. They have reached a brilliant level as amateurs, but it is in recovery and rest that they suffer in. The lads have to go to work while full time athletes have recovery sessions, massages, flexibility sessions and people providing them with their meals. This enables them to train better and harder the next day while the gaa lads may be a bit sore and weary. Do not believe the myths that " x or y hada trial with Chelsea and was fitter than all their players ". That's simply untrue or one amazing exception. Sure we often hear of how teams are tired playing on a Sunday because they bad a game the previous Sunday or commentators praising players for battling through extre time while getting cramp.

Gaa players are very fit but professional athletes will always be a level above

freddiek

God be with the days when GAA players didn't think of themselves as pro. athletes.

and they had normal everyday jobs and they fitted in training and playing time around their jobs.

These days its the opposite.

Top players are now picking careers to suit their GAA activities! When did you last hear of a inter-county player being late for training?? used to be very common what with work schedules and commutes - that's all out the window now.

Goes back to my earlier post, the GPA achieved a lot for the ordinary player and it was long overdue but at the same time they created a monster as well.

dxhound2005

freddiek wrote: »

God be with the days when GAA players didn't think of themselves as pro. athletes.

and they had normal everyday jobs and they fitted in training and playing time around their jobs.

These days its the opposite.

Top players are now picking careers to suit their GAA activities! When did you last hear of a inter-county player being late for training?? used to be very common what with work schedules and commutes - that's all out the window now.

Goes back to my earlier post, the GPA achieved a lot for the ordinary player and it was long overdue but at the same time they created a monster as well.

How would I know if a player turned up late for training in Derry or Wicklow? How would you know? Who are these employers that take on GAA players and let them come and go depending on their training schedule? What was a normal everyday job in the good old days that none of them are doing now? You seem very clued up on the lives of hundreds if not thousands of players.

As I wrote about earlier actual professionalism and effectively pay for play existed back in your good old days and the rules had to be strengthened to knock this on the head.

There is a clear precedent. In 1954, the amateur status was first put into rule to stop teams holding full-time training camps for weeks before big finals. Teams on such camps were often paid for time off work ("broken-time payment") and even more. In 1953 Kerry allegedly spent £18 a week per player on training camps.

Amprodude

tastyt wrote: »

Inter county players are not as fit as full time professional athletes. They have reached a brilliant level as amateurs, but it is in recovery and rest that they suffer in. The lads have to go to work while full time athletes have recovery sessions, massages, flexibility sessions and people providing them with their meals. This enables them to train better and harder the next day while the gaa lads may be a bit sore and weary. Do not believe the myths that " x or y hada trial with Chelsea and was fitter than all their players ". That's simply untrue or one amazing exception. Sure we often hear of how teams are tired playing on a Sunday because they bad a game the previous Sunday or commentators praising players for battling through extre time while getting cramp.

Gaa players are very fit but professional athletes will always be a level above

Fully agree.

Just look at the Aussies playing us in International Rules, their fitness is always superior to ours.

Also GAA training is not as intense as someone doing rowing, cycling or MMA.

BonnieSituation

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

But in looking back and comparing these players from different ages, do we apply the thinking that ''oh well they would be conditioned like today's players if they were around now'' or do we credit much of today's players as being better because they are better physically than the guys of 20-30 years ago?

It's hard to tell but my reading of it and to be honest there's no other way I could read, it is that the best in any era would try to be the best no matter what the era.

Tommy Walsh or Henry playing in the fifties would not be as physically adept as they are now, obviously, but the determination that got them to the top would still be present theoretically. In other words I'm sure there would be a Henry Shefflin Cup if he was 50 years older.

I hope I am getting my point across?

ciarriaithuaidh

The top 10% of GAA players are a match for professionals in many aspects. Rugby players are always going to be heavier/stronger due to the contact nature of the sport, but even at that many GAA players wouldn't be found wanting.
In recent years the guys being tested by AFL teams have astounded some Australian coaches. Jack McCaffrey would have been in the elite AFL bracket for acceleration I'm told. Brendan Murphy shocked Sydney Swans coaches by placing third overall in a squad endurance test a couple of years ago and he was barely 19 I'd say. Bernard Jackman mentioned in an article that Leinster rugby tried to recruit him.
Yes, those guys are athletic freaks..but do people realise that the top GAA players are training twice a day in many cases? Gym sessions, yoga sessions, even squad training in the AM is now the norm in some places.
All that being said, I wonder is that sustainable for much longer. Guys are putting their bodies through the ringer, working full time (struggling to hold down jobs or having no job in some cases) and have less than optimal recovery time/strategies in most cases also as someone mentioned.

K-9

Mountainlad wrote: »

Hmm...that's an interesting one. In 2008, Tony Griffin took a year out from his studies to concentrate on hurling. He was the only player I've ever known to basically do this. I guess players would be full time training so to speak in any foreign training camps they'd have.

I wonder how much training professional soccer players actually do, I don't think it is typically 9-5, so the work the top GAA teams might well be pretty comparable.

eyescreamcone

K-9 wrote: »

I wonder how much training professional soccer players actually do, I don't think it is typically 9-5, so the work the top GAA teams might well be pretty comparable.

I hope you are not trying to compare any GAA team with say a premiership team. Only the very elite make it to the premiership. Intercounty GAA teams are far from elite.

Mountainlad

The problem is you're comparing to very different sports in very different systems.

If you play hurling, the most your preparing for to play is likely 5 games. If it's football it can be more but for say the top teams not likely to be much more than 6.

Soccer players at the highest level are likely playing for 40 (it's a minimum 48 for lower league english teams) games in a year or more.

Therefore the training will be different. There's no doubt the pre season they undergo, in terms of the preparation and level of attention to detail is ahead of GAA. I would say it's very intense. But once the season starts I would say they don't train to hard unless they get injured. It's more about recovery as you'll find them sometimes playing games 3 days after finishing one.

They are able to play these number of games because soccer is not as intense even if it is played for 20 minutes longer.

Even comparing football and hurling, football isn't as in intense to me. That's why the players are generally bigger than their hurling counterparts, they don't have to be quite as fast over 6 yards (that's my opinion anyway, not saying that is a good or bad thing before anybody comes in with a typical 'hurling man' says this nonsense rebuke).


I remember when Waterford played Cork in the replay in 2010, the game went to extra time so it was 90 minutes of hurling. They gauged Stephen Molumphy's running by putting a device on his jersey/shorts (bit sketchy on the details) and I believe he ran 17km. I'm pretty sure in the average soccer match the players that cover the most ground would be closer to 10km.

All I'm trying to get across is these sports are not as similar as it's often made out to be, and that needs to be factored in when considering the level of the respective athletes.

tastyt

Also lads ask yourself this, if gaa players were as fit , how come it's becoming more and more rare that players 30+ are able to compete with the younger guys?? It's because of the amateur status, it's impossible to combine top level training and a job and a family for so long. The lads who play to 34 or 35 are the small exception.

In my opinion the gaa have an awful lot to answer for as regards overtraining and burn out when these players are in their teens. More and harder training isn't always the way. Flogging young lads into the ground playing college, club u 21 and senior, intercounty u 21 and senior and maybe even dual playing aswell is another reason lads are spent by the time they are 30.

Didn't I hear that 3 players from the wexford u 21 panel last year had to undergo hip operations. That's usually a procedure for a pensioner to face into. That's shocking in anyone's book .

hurling_lad

tastyt wrote: »

Also lads ask yourself this, if gaa players were as fit , how come it's becoming more and more rare that players 30+ are able to compete with the younger guys?? It's because of the amateur status, it's impossible to combine top level training and a job and a family for so long. The lads who play to 34 or 35 are the small exception.

In my opinion the gaa have an awful lot to answer for as regards overtraining and burn out when these players are in their teens. More and harder training isn't always the way. Flogging young lads into the ground playing college, club u 21 and senior, intercounty u 21 and senior and maybe even dual playing aswell is another reason lads are spent by the time they are 30.

Didn't I hear that 3 players from the wexford u 21 panel last year had to undergo hip operations. That's usually a procedure for a pensioner to face into. That's shocking in anyone's book .

In fairness, I don't think that issues around the elite level of amateur sports being increasingly closed off to older lads is unique to the GAA.

My own sport was rowing and when I started it off in the early 90's most of the top-level crews were from normal clubs in Dublin, Limerick and the North whereas nowadays it's all college and college alumni clubs that are winning everything and the average age of the elite guys is around 4-5 years less than it used to be.

K-9

tastyt wrote: »

Also lads ask yourself this, if gaa players were as fit , how come it's becoming more and more rare that players 30+ are able to compete with the younger guys?? It's because of the amateur status, it's impossible to combine top level training and a job and a family for so long. The lads who play to 34 or 35 are the small exception.

In my opinion the gaa have an awful lot to answer for as regards overtraining and burn out when these players are in their teens. More and harder training isn't always the way. Flogging young lads into the ground playing college, club u 21 and senior, intercounty u 21 and senior and maybe even dual playing aswell is another reason lads are spent by the time they are 30.

Didn't I hear that 3 players from the wexford u 21 panel last year had to undergo hip operations. That's usually a procedure for a pensioner to face into. That's shocking in anyone's book .

Yes, but the main reason they retire earlier is because they are much fitter and far more is expected of them than 20 years ago.

tastyt

K-9 wrote: »

Yes, but the main reason they retire earlier is because they are much fitter and far more is expected of them than 20 years ago.

That's very true. Too much for amateur players to cope with

freddiek

dxhound2005 wrote: »

How would I know if a player turned up late for training in Derry or Wicklow? How would you know? Who are these employers that take on GAA players and let them come and go depending on their training schedule? What was a normal everyday job in the good old days that none of them are doing now? You seem very clued up on the lives of hundreds if not thousands of players.

As I wrote about earlier actual professionalism and effectively pay for play existed back in your good old days and the rules had to be strengthened to knock this on the head.

There is a clear precedent. In 1954, the amateur status was first put into rule to stop teams holding full-time training camps for weeks before big finals. Teams on such camps were often paid for time off work ("broken-time payment") and even more. In 1953 Kerry allegedly spent £18 a week per player on training camps.

I think professionalism in terms of approach really took off with the Dubs - Kerry era in the 1970s. back then even the top players were content to play for the love of the game and were not concerned about compensation.

dxhound2005

freddiek wrote: »

I think professionalism in terms of approach really took off with the Dubs - Kerry era in the 1970s. back then even the top players were content to play for the love of the game and were not concerned about compensation.

So up until the 1950's when the GAA had to stamp out pay for play they were only in it for the money? And then there was some golden age until the GPA came along where it was pure amateurism? And now they are all in it only for the money again? And all through the years they loved the game so much that they went to America to play for no compensation.