Unpopular GAA opinions you hold

Amprodude

freddiek wrote: »

I think professionalism in terms of approach really took off with the Dubs - Kerry era in the 1970s. back then even the top players were content to play for the love of the game and were not concerned about compensation.

Come on now. There is no comparison from modern gaa player to one in the 70s.i still think the training gaa players do is nothing compared to what a boxer will do preparing for a fight.

dxhound2005

Mountainlad wrote: »

The problem is you're comparing to very different sports in very different systems.

If you play hurling, the most your preparing for to play is likely 5 games. If it's football it can be more but for say the top teams not likely to be much more than 6.

Soccer players at the highest level are likely playing for 40 (it's a minimum 48 for lower league english teams) games in a year or more.

Therefore the training will be different. There's no doubt the pre season they undergo, in terms of the preparation and level of attention to detail is ahead of GAA. I would say it's very intense. But once the season starts I would say they don't train to hard unless they get injured. It's more about recovery as you'll find them sometimes playing games 3 days after finishing one.

They are able to play these number of games because soccer is not as intense even if it is played for 20 minutes longer.

Even comparing football and hurling, football isn't as in intense to me. That's why the players are generally bigger than their hurling counterparts, they don't have to be quite as fast over 6 yards (that's my opinion anyway, not saying that is a good or bad thing before anybody comes in with a typical 'hurling man' says this nonsense rebuke).


I remember when Waterford played Cork in the replay in 2010, the game went to extra time so it was 90 minutes of hurling. They gauged Stephen Molumphy's running by putting a device on his jersey/shorts (bit sketchy on the details) and I believe he ran 17km. I'm pretty sure in the average soccer match the players that cover the most ground would be closer to 10km.

All I'm trying to get across is these sports are not as similar as it's often made out to be, and that needs to be factored in when considering the level of the respective athletes.

Where are you getting this only 5 or 6 games from? A footballer could play up to 9 games in the League and maybe 6 in the Championship He could be on the county Under 21 panel as well. And if his club are county champions then over and above that campaign and the club league campaign he could have 5 or 6 more games in the All Ireland Club Championship. Many professional soccer players could sit out their club's 48 game season on the bench or maybe not even in the first team squad.

tastyt

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Where are you getting this only 5 or 6 games from? A footballer could play up to 9 games in the League and maybe 6 in the Championship He could be on the county Under 21 panel as well. And if his club are county champions then over and above that campaign and the club league campaign he could have 5 or 6 more games in the All Ireland Club Championship. Many professional soccer players could sit out their club's 48 game season on the bench or maybe not even in the first team squad.

I think we can surely all agree that a professional soccer match is on a different planet to a club gaa match ?

dxhound2005

tastyt wrote: »

I think we can surely all agree that a professional soccer match is on a different planet to a club gaa match ?

Depends at what level. Some lower league games in England attract crowds of less than 2,000. Anyway only counting inter county championship games is a nonsense. In that case plenty of players play only two games a year.

tastyt

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Depends at what level. Some lower league games in England attract crowds of less than 2,000. Anyway only counting inter county championship games is a nonsense. In that case plenty of players play only two games a year.

It doesn't matter what crowd a game attracts they are still full time professional athletes. And inter county games are the only games where all players would be anywhere near as fit as an average professional so it's only those games that should be counted

Mountainlad

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Where are you getting this only 5 or 6 games from? A footballer could play up to 9 games in the League and maybe 6 in the Championship He could be on the county Under 21 panel as well. And if his club are county champions then over and above that campaign and the club league campaign he could have 5 or 6 more games in the All Ireland Club Championship. Many professional soccer players could sit out their club's 48 game season on the bench or maybe not even in the first team squad.

Lets be honest, nobody gives a f*ck about the league. They are only half fit at that stage. It's basically pre season. If you're a County player, your peak is for the championship. Point taken re club level, but it's pretty fractured and applies to an even more select few.

Your right it depends on the player, and their age but I would say 30 games on average for the better players all of which they're expected to be at their peak. For County players, it's the duration of the championship for their respective teams.

megadodge

Amprodude wrote: »

Come on now. There is no comparison from modern gaa player to one in the 70s.i still think the training gaa players do is nothing compared to what a boxer will do preparing for a fight.

There's virtually no sport that can compare to the hardship of boxing/boxing training, so you're being seriously unfair with that comment.

freddiek

Amprodude wrote: »

Come on now. There is no comparison from modern gaa player to one in the 70s.i still think the training gaa players do is nothing compared to what a boxer will do preparing for a fight.

I'm not making a comparison.

all I'm saying is the elite gaelic footballers of the 1970s were as quote unquote professional as that era allowed.

dxhound2005

tastyt wrote: »

It doesn't matter what crowd a game attracts they are still full time professional athletes. And inter county games are the only games where all players would be anywhere near as fit as an average professional so it's only those games that should be counted

So these stories I heard about savage winter training sessions in the mud and snow with fellas puking their guts up are just fairy tales. No sand dunes, no mountain sides, no forest parks.

MaroonAndGreen

dxhound2005 wrote: »

So these stories I heard about savage winter training sessions in the mud and snow with fellas puking their guts up are just fairy tales. No sand dunes, no mountain sides, no forest parks.

That doesnt mean they are anywhere near as fit as a proper professional athlete in other field sports like soccer.

Soccer professionals are well and truly elite. Millions and millions play soccer worldwide yet there are probably less than 20,000 professionals id guess. Less than 1% of soccer players make it to be a pro, the ones that are professional are super super fit and in top physical shape. They are well and truly world class.

GAA players are so so far away from being elite (in international terms) its ridiculous. Less than 500,000 people play GAA, comparing even the very very best GAA players to a professional soccer player who has beaten off millions around the world to become a professional, is laughable.

And im a big big GAA fan by the way, im not biased in any way towards either sport, I think its just so wrong to compare a GAA player to a soccer player and try and claim that there isnt much between them.

tastyt

dxhound2005 wrote: »

So these stories I heard about savage winter training sessions in the mud and snow with fellas puking their guts up are just fairy tales. No sand dunes, no mountain sides, no forest parks.

I'm not saying they don't train hard. And getting sick in a forest park with Davey fitz driving in his car behind you doesn't mean your as fit as a pro. That kind of stuff is more for mental toughness and team bonding, so the lads have some hardship they have all been through together. I'm not saying it's not tough, I wouldn't fancy it.

The Lost Sheep

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

That doesnt mean they are anywhere near as fit as a proper professional athlete in other field sports like soccer.

Soccer professionals are well and truly elite. Millions and millions play soccer worldwide yet there are probably less than 20,000 professionals id guess. Less than 1% of soccer players make it to be a pro, the ones that are professional are super super fit and in top physical shape. They are well and truly world class.

GAA players are so so far away from being elite (in international terms) its ridiculous. Less than 500,000 people play GAA, comparing even the very very best GAA players to a professional soccer player who has beaten off millions around the world to become a professional, is laughable.

And im a big big GAA fan by the way, im not biased in any way towards either sport, I think its just so wrong to compare a GAA player to a soccer player and try and claim that there isnt much between them.

There would be a lot more than 20000 professional soccer players.
Considering there is 92 football league sides in England and virtually all are professional and all will have 35-40+ pro players or so 20000 is well off.

MaroonAndGreen

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There would be a lot more than 20000 professional soccer players.
Considering there is 92 football league sides in England and virtually all are professional and all will have 35-40+ pro players or so 20000 is well off.

Okay edit my post to say 100,000 professional players, it makes no difference to the percentage. Its still less than 1% of soccer players that make it as a professional.

The Lost Sheep

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Okay edit my post to say 100,000 professional players, it makes no difference to the percentage. Its still less than 1% of soccer players that make it as a professional.

The figure of pro soccer players would still be higher than that if you take into account all countries. Percentage will still be low considering how many play and how easy it is to play soccer

MaroonAndGreen

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The figure of pro soccer players would still be higher than that if you take into account all countries. Percentage will still be low considering how many play and how easy it is to play soccer

It doesnt change my point at all

freddiek

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

That doesnt mean they are anywhere near as fit as a proper professional athlete in other field sports like soccer.

Soccer professionals are well and truly elite. Millions and millions play soccer worldwide yet there are probably less than 20,000 professionals id guess. Less than 1% of soccer players make it to be a pro, the ones that are professional are super super fit and in top physical shape. They are well and truly world class.

GAA players are so so far away from being elite (in international terms) its ridiculous. Less than 500,000 people play GAA, comparing even the very very best GAA players to a professional soccer player who has beaten off millions around the world to become a professional, is laughable.

And im a big big GAA fan by the way, im not biased in any way towards either sport, I think its just so wrong to compare a GAA player to a soccer player and try and claim that there isnt much between them.

I'm reluctant to talk association football in a GAA thread but one of the biggest stars of English association football in the last decade or so is Wayne Rooney. at the same time he is regularly slagged off for his perceived lack of fitness.

in your opinion, how fit is he compared to the elite of GAA footballers?

perhaps he got where he is today by relying much more on his natural talent than pure fitness.

MaroonAndGreen

freddiek wrote: »

I'm reluctant to talk association football in a GAA thread but one of the biggest stars of English association football in the last decade or so is Wayne Rooney. at the same time he is regularly slagged off for his perceived lack of fitness.

in your opinion, how fit is he compared to the elite of GAA footballers?

perhaps he got where he is today by relying much more on his natural talent than pure fitness.

Hes fitter, absolutley no doubt in my mind. Hes fit enough to play 3 ninety minute games in 7 days at the top level.

munchkin_utd

one thing that struck me, the hurling final yesterday is slightly overshaddowed by whether 2 penalty decisions were inside or outside the box, at least thats whats people see as the big taking point.

No mention of both tackles being last man cynical rugby tackles (the second being a great example, the man wasn't taken down properly so a teammate came in to finish the job!), the likes of which "blights" football and led to the setting up of the football review committee to tackle cynical play and save the game.

But in hurling, sure a bit of a cynical tackle here or there in an all ireland final when an attacker is bearing down on goal is just part of the game!

Crazy stuff. If its considered as cynical play and ablight on the game in gaelic football to hack a lad out of it when bearing down on goals, then its the same for hurling.

bruschi

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Okay edit my post to say 100,000 professional players, it makes no difference to the percentage. Its still less than 1% of soccer players that make it as a professional.

I disagree with your blanket assessment that because there is a slimmer chance of becoming a professional soccer player, it automatically means they are fitter and more athletic?

And one easy way I would dismiss it based on your percentage type rationale is that there are a higher percentage of Australian Rules players able to make it in comparison to soccer, but unquestionably Aussie Rules players are fitter than soccer players.

Professional soccer players may well be fitter than their GAA counterparts, but its not because it is harder to make it as a professional or based on percentage.

My own opinion is that there is not that much difference between them, in certain areas. Compare Dublins football team to some lower league professional soccer team, and I'd certainly think the Dublin team would be far fitter (whatever the definition for fit is). I certainly dont think there is miles between them.

Also, and not to distract it much further, but to say because a soccer player makes it because he is super fit and in top physical shape is very easily rebutted. There are heaps of soccer players who are overweight and unfit, but have excellent talent and skills which make up for their lack of fitness.

GBXI

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

That doesnt mean they are anywhere near as fit as a proper professional athlete in other field sports like soccer.

Soccer professionals are well and truly elite. Millions and millions play soccer worldwide yet there are probably less than 20,000 professionals id guess. Less than 1% of soccer players make it to be a pro, the ones that are professional are super super fit and in top physical shape. They are well and truly world class.

GAA players are so so far away from being elite (in international terms) its ridiculous. Less than 500,000 people play GAA, comparing even the very very best GAA players to a professional soccer player who has beaten off millions around the world to become a professional, is laughable.

And im a big big GAA fan by the way, im not biased in any way towards either sport, I think its just so wrong to compare a GAA player to a soccer player and try and claim that there isnt much between them.

I don't mean to be insulting here but your rationale is idiotic. Pro soccer players at the top level make it more for their natural soccer talent than their athleticism, as soccer is a very technical, global sport. GAA players at the elite county level are incredibly fit (if your definition of fit is say a standard bleep test or some other universal fitness measure). You can't compare soccer players and GAA players technically because they play different sports, but athletically our top GAA players match up. I have no doubt in my mind that Paul Flynn and Keith Higgins for example are as fit if not fitter than Seamus Coleman or Mesut Ozil, for example.

dxhound2005

GBXI wrote: »

I don't mean to be insulting here but your rationale is idiotic. Pro soccer players at the top level make it more for their natural soccer talent than their athleticism, as soccer is a very technical, global sport. GAA players at the elite county level are incredibly fit (if your definition of fit is say a standard bleep test or some other universal fitness measure). You can't compare soccer players and GAA players technically because they play different sports, but athletically our top GAA players match up. I have no doubt in my mind that Paul Flynn and Keith Higgins for example are as fit if not fitter than Seamus Coleman or Mesut Ozil, for example.

To achieve this level of fitness there must be a danger of losing the amateur ethos. If it can be achieved by hundreds of county players who still have to work 5 days a week then I think it loses something of the the mystique. Think of how much fitter they would be if they were doing full time training, if someone can be any fitter than incredibly fit.

But it is against the rules to participate in full time training. It is not defined but is nonetheless banned. I hope the elite whatever that means are no less amateur than their non elite counterparts when it comes to training.

Prop Joe

Different types of fitness,I know a guy who regularly runs ultra marathons,I bet he would beat Ashley Cole in an Ultra Marthon.

Put the same geezer running around a soccer pitch after a football i bet Cole would be in better nick come 90 mins.

Same as Conor McGregor or Usian Bolt who is fitter?

Bolt on the track but McGregor in the ring?

homerjay2005

that Cillian O Connor, while a very good player, is not at the level that he is being put at and is very overrated.

he scores alot of handy tap in goal or frees, along with being a good penalty taker, but he is not at the same level as the likes of O Donoghue, Brogan, Cooper and all the other really top forwards of the last decade, despite what some Connacht people will tell you.

a young fit footballer thats markeable in big games.

BonnieSituation

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that Cillian O Connor, while a very good player, is not at the level that he is being put at and is very overrated.

he scores alot of handy tap in goal or frees, along with being a good penalty taker, but he is not at the same level as the likes of O Donoghue, Brogan, Cooper and all the other really top forwards of the last decade, despite what some Connacht people will tell you.

a young fit footballer thats markeable in big games.

O'Donoghue hasn't got a level yet. He's barely out of the womb. Give it a while yet.

And as for the easy frees and goals... Cooper's reputation is enhanced by the handy HF work he has to "struggle" through.

I agree though that COC is a good player and had a cracking couple of games against ye but he's not what I would say is a "great". A lot of Mayo people recognise that too and they are merely giving him the deserved plaudits for being pretty great v Kerry.


That's not tp say that he won't be considered a great at some stage. He will.

iDave

Heres an unpopular opinion. Comparing other mens fitness is a boring subject and slightly homoerotic.

Realt Dearg Sec

iDave wrote: »

Heres an unpopular opinion. Comparing other mens fitness is a boring subject and slightly homoerotic.

Which sport has the best looking men? With the nicest smiles? An amateur sport like hurling could never really compete with Roger Federer. And until our players can aspire to being in Gillette ads, there's just no comparison, the pros are just on another, ruggedly handsome planet altogether.

keane2097

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Which sport has the best looking men? With the nicest smiles? An amateur sport like hurling could never really compete with Roger Federer. And until our players can aspire to being in Gillette ads, there's just no comparison, the pros are just on another, ruggedly handsome planet altogether.

A Paul Flynn/Anna Geary breeding campaign may be in order.

Prop Joe

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that Cillian O Connor, while a very good player, is not at the level that he is being put at and is very overrated.

he scores alot of handy tap in goal or frees, along with being a good penalty taker, but he is not at the same level as the likes of O Donoghue, Brogan, Cooper and all the other really top forwards of the last decade, despite what some Connacht people will tell you.

a young fit footballer thats markeable in big games.

At 22 - 2 x YPOTY - 4 x Connacht titles - Played in 2 AI Finals

I think he will get better and better and become one of the Mayo all time greats

Realt Dearg Sec

keane2097 wrote: »

A Paul Flynn/Anna Geary breeding campaign may be in order.

I dunno, a simple administrative mistake could lead to disaster...

Fr Tod Umptious

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that Cillian O Connor, while a very good player, is not at the level that he is being put at and is very overrated.

he scores alot of handy tap in goal or frees, along with being a good penalty taker, but he is not at the same level as the likes of O Donoghue, Brogan, Cooper and all the other really top forwards of the last decade, despite what some Connacht people will tell you.

a young fit footballer thats markeable in big games.

Another poster has listed his achievements to date.

I'll add to that that he was very much injured throughout 2013.

Seeing him live this season he really has come on, makes a lot of space, set us up a lot of scores etc.

IMO his football brain has really developed this season.

Only time will tell if he will be as good as the ones you mentioned.

nice_guy80

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Another poster has listed his achievements to date.

I'll add to that that he was very much injured throughout 2013.

Seeing him live this season he really has come on, makes a lot of space, set us up a lot of scores etc.

IMO his football brain has really developed this season.

Only time will tell if he will be as good as the ones you mentioned.

He also falls over very easy and is very adapt at tricking referees.
Plus, most scores come from frees or penalties
Let's get all the facts out

Fr Tod Umptious

nice_guy80 wrote: »

He also falls over very easy and is very adapt at tricking referees.
Plus, most scores come from frees or penalties
Let's get all the facts out

I'm not arguing that he scores more from placed balls than play.

Teams would give their left arm for a guy that is so consistent.

But from watching him in the flesh he adds far more to the game than just his free taking, and this season I have seen a big improvement in his 'non free taking' contribution.

keane2097

O'Connor suffers from not having a particular aesthetic style. He's ridiculously effective.

DDC1990

O'Connor is a top class footballer and a shoe in for an All Star this year with O'Donaghue and rightly so.

O'Connor finds space so effortlessly, can slip his man so easily, he tackles hard even as a corner forward (just ask Aidan O'Shea), is very accurate from play.

All of this without being blessed with O'Donaghue's pace, or Murphy's big build.

aveytare

I think people forget he's only 22.

Amprodude

homerjay2005 wrote: »

that Cillian O Connor, while a very good player, is not at the level that he is being put at and is very overrated.

he scores alot of handy tap in goal or frees, along with being a good penalty taker, but he is not at the same level as the likes of O Donoghue, Brogan, Cooper and all the other really top forwards of the last decade, despite what some Connacht people will tell you.

a young fit footballer thats markeable in big games.

O Donaghue is great when he has open space. Not so good when hes bottled up. Interesting to see how he handles Donegals who will be like lions hunting him down.

megadodge

dxhound2005 wrote: »

To achieve this level of fitness there must be a danger of losing the amateur ethos. If it can be achieved by hundreds of county players who still have to work 5 days a week then I think it loses something of the the mystique. Think of how much fitter they would be if they were doing full time training, if someone can be any fitter than incredibly fit.

But it is against the rules to participate in full time training. It is not defined but is nonetheless banned. I hope the elite whatever that means are no less amateur than their non elite counterparts when it comes to training.

Not being smart here, but how can you ban something that isn't defined?


I've heard a lot of nonsense about restricting GAA players' training. So are there going to be inspectors in your bedroom when you get up in the morning to make sure you don't do your pressups, etc. except on prescribed days?

What players do in their own time is entirely their own business and even if some crazy law was brought in to stop them it would be unenforcable.

tastyt

I think Marty Morrissey is better on tv and more handsome than Jamie redknapp

WesternZulu

aveytare wrote: »

I think people forget he's only 22.

And people forget that he is 2 years younger than O'Donoghue, and that O'Donoghue only really broke onto the scene last year.

Plenty of time for COC to get to the level of Brogan/Cooper/O'Donoghue.

The Lost Sheep

megadodge wrote: »

Not being smart here, but how can you ban something that isn't defined?


I've heard a lot of nonsense about restricting GAA players' training. So are there going to be inspectors in your bedroom when you get up in the morning to make sure you don't do your pressups, etc. except on prescribed days?

What players do in their own time is entirely their own business and even if some crazy law was brought in to stop them it would be unenforcable.

Dont be ridiculous. It would be fairly ok to manage and stop team sessions or at least limit them to help counter overkill of players.

megadodge

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Dont be ridiculous. It would be fairly ok to manage and stop team sessions or at least limit them to help counter overkill of players.

Well that's entirely my point.

Team sessions can be restricted, but individual restrictions are unenforcable.

The problem on forums is there are loads of 'burnout' (the latest buzzword in GAA) experts talking a load of bollocks about training habits while not actually knowing what they're talking about.

dirkmeister

Saying a referee had a good game because he "let the game flow" annoys the sh!t out of me.

Has anyone even taken the time to properly explain what that means?

nice_guy80

megadodge wrote: »

Well that's entirely my point.

Team sessions can be restricted, but individual restrictions are unenforcable.

The problem on forums is there are loads of 'burnout' (the latest buzzword in GAA) experts talking a load of bollocks about training habits while not actually knowing what they're talking about.

Exactly.

And it is a minority of players who have this issue.

The vast majority of young players barely get enough games

nice_guy80

dirkmeister wrote: »

Saying a referee had a good game because he "let the game flow" annoys the sh!t out of me.

Has anyone even taken the time to properly explain what that means?

He applied a loose interpretation of the rules.
But generally kept good control and the players knew not to cross him

AugustusMinimus

That just because you maybe a member of the GAA and maybe play a GAA sport, that it is wrong then to dislike another one of the sports that the GAA regulates.

The sports regulated by the GAA are quite varied and it should be understandable that some members don't like them all. How many hurling or football fans would sit down and watch a game of rounders for instance.

Amprodude

Kerry will be beaten in 2015. They rode their luck in 2014.

BonnieSituation

Amprodude wrote: »

Kerry will be beaten in 2015. They rode their luck in 2014.

Hardly unpopular.

I'm with you on this one.

deadybai

Intercouty GAA managers should be only able to be manager with the county in which their club is apart of. Hate seeing 'outside' managers.

Mountainlad

deadybai wrote: »

Intercouty GAA managers should be only able to be manager with the county in which there club is apart of. Hate seeing 'outside' managers.

Why? Lots of success has come from more experienced managers coming to smaller Counties and bringing their knowledge and experience with them. Surely a positive?

Realt Dearg Sec

Mountainlad wrote: »

Why? Lots of success has come from more experienced managers coming to smaller Counties and bringing their knowledge and experience with them. Surely a positive?

Yeah but I can see the argument. Why is it any different to a player coming in? A great player going to a weaker county might improve them drastically, but it's not allowed for reasons that seem just as applicable to managers. Especially since outside managers are always the ones who have rumours of massive payments circulating around them. Not saying I agree with the sentiment but I can see where he's coming from.