Unpopular GAA opinions you hold

harpsman

intellectual dosser wrote: »

My unpopular (Football) opinion:

The Provincial Championships are dead.

This year Mayo and Dublin will win their respective provinces without sweating while the seeding down south means we'll have Kerry v Cork Munster Finals for the next decade at least. Ulster offers a bit more excitement and intrigue but for a long time we had Armagh and Tyrone exchanging titles shortly after the backdoor system was brought in.

I do cite the backdoor system as the critical factor, I think the historically weaker teams will put up a fight in their province but will ultimately fall back on the second chance.

People dont want to change, the provincial championships have always been a cornerstone of the GAA summer, we have our historys, our memories and medals from them, but the longer they continue in the current format the less they'll matter. To fix this, we either resuscitate the provincials by removing the backdoor, or we change the format of the championship altogether. And yes I find it hard to argue against a "Champions League" format complete with seeding. I'm aware that alluding to a soccer institution can be suicidal to my point in this forum.

The provincial championships are alot less dead that the All Ireland championship was 30-40 years ago when the all ireland semis were attended by about 20,000 people and all Ulster and Connaught teams were complete no hopers

harpsman

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

That wouldn't happen if a properly structured championship was put in place obviously..

Explain this structure youre talking about-cos most people are suggesting champions league style(and then going on to say that each team would have 3 games,which isnt cl format-its world cup/euro champ format,to be pedantic about it!)

harpsman

Jim Gavin is a hypocrite, and quite sanctamonious to boot. He constantly bangs on about playing the game in the right way but when it suited his team at the end of the AIF they were rugby tackling like there was no tomorrow.

Also, the evidence would suggest that he condones his players biting opponents, and in my opinion thats much worse than playing defensively.
(awaits ban)

Jake Rugby Walrus666

harpsman wrote: »

Jim Gavin is a hypocrite, and quite sanctamonious to boot. He constantly bangs on about playing the game in the right way but when it suited his team at the end of the AIF they were rugby tackling like there was no tomorrow.

Also, the evidence would suggest that he condones his players biting opponents, and in my opinion thats much worse than playing defensively.
(awaits ban)

There was one, what you might call a rugby tackle, under the hogan stand in midfield. After that the Dublin challenges were robust but nothing out of the ordinary. Mayo were quite happy to play for frees at that stage. And then fell between stools not knowing to go for goal or points.

Also can you link to quote of Gavin claiming higher moral ground for Dublin. Playing the game the right way means attack football versus blanket defence.

CurryFlavoured

harpsman wrote: »

Id say Flynn was the best player last year. If McAuley wasnt so greedy and crap at shooting he woulda been poty.

Na, Tomas was the best.

I had a lot of people say that to me about Flynn but I don't agree, the previous 2 years he was better. I actually thought Mackey should have got an all star ahead of him at #10.

Marc's the best corner back I've ever seen, I'd probably go so far as to say he's comfortably the best. I've witnessed him mark an on form Bernard Brogan off the pitch in the league and (supposedly) he gave the Gooch a tough time in a few club matches in Kerry, which is unique.

ciarriaithuaidh

CurryFlavoured wrote: »

I had a lot of people say that to me about Flynn but I don't agree, the previous 2 years he was better. I actually thought Mackey should have got an all star ahead of him at #10.

Marc's the best corner back I've ever seen, I'd probably go so far as to say he's comfortably the best. I've witnessed him mark an on form Bernard Brogan off the pitch in the league and (supposedly) he gave the Gooch a tough time in a few club matches in Kerry, which is unique.

Marc was the most skillful of the three, hands down.
Tomás had the most power.
However, none of them single handedly dominated more games than Darragh did. I think people still forget he was barely over 6 foot, but still lorded it in the middle for so long. It depends on your definition of "best"..but Darragh was the most influential in my view.

ciarriaithuaidh

harpsman wrote: »

Explain this structure youre talking about-cos most people are suggesting champions league style(and then going on to say that each team would have 3 games,which isnt cl format-its world cup/euro champ format,to be pedantic about it!)

Either a two or three tiered system, 3 groups of 11 or 16/15.

Run it from March to August, each team is guaranteed 10 championship games at least, have 2/3 promoted relegated each year.

Give me an argument against that that has nothing to do with tradition and I'll get back to you.

savannahkat

Gaelic Football threads were invented to punish hurling followers for some great unknown sins we must have committed in some former lives because I for one do not deserve it for anything I did in this life.

adrian522

MacBizzle wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, where do you get these stats? It'd be interesting to have a look at some others

A bit of googling threw up an Enda McEvoy article from a few years ago and also a tribute piece after he retired mentioned the 3.8 number.

Hurlingstats.com used to be good but I think they stopped updating it.

adrian522

deadybai wrote: »

Wouldn't Mullane have played a good few games in the qualifiers against weaker opposition? I think he was a good player but he just lacked something that made him great like Shefflin and D.j Carey. What was Dj's average from play?

I guess he would but so would the others I mentioned. Kilkenny blew away a lot of teams in the way that Waterford wouldn't have.

Chilli Con Kearney

The GAA (particularly) football has player and fan discipline issues which it refuses to face up to.

adrian522

Club fixtures should go ahead any weekend the county team is not in action. Inter County mamagers should have no power to veto club fixtures going ahead.

Not sure how unpopular that is, but club championships should all be completed by late September/Early October.

BUNK1982

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

The GAA (particularly) football has player and fan discipline issues which it refuses to face up to.

Players and fans are wound up so tightly before games it's bound to manifest itself somehow - but then again this is part of what makes for the blood and thunder people like about the GAA in the first place.

Prop Joe

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Either a two or three tiered system, 3 groups of 11 or 16/15.

Run it from March to August, each team is guaranteed 10 championship games at least, have 2/3 promoted relegated each year.

Give me an argument against that that has nothing to do with tradition and I'll get back to you.

Who will attend these games? The Irish public want knock out competitions.A League based championship i would guess does not excite anyone

AugustusMinimus

The sway that Frank Murphy holds over the GAA at large is vastly over rated. People accusing him of being able to cherry pick refs for Cork and all sorts of stuff. Tin foil hat stuff.

harpsman

Jake Rugby Walrus666 wrote: »

There was one, what you might call a rugby tackle, under the hogan stand in midfield. After that the Dublin challenges were robust but nothing out of the ordinary. Mayo were quite happy to play for frees at that stage. And then fell between stools not knowing to go for goal or points.

Also can you link to quote of Gavin claiming higher moral ground for Dublin. Playing the game the right way means attack football versus blanket defence.

Well there was a fair bit of deliberate fouling/pulling players down.
Alot of people would say playing the game the right way means not cheating or biting your opponents, or kicking the Gooch in the head.

harpsman

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Either a two or three tiered system, 3 groups of 11 or 16/15.

Run it from March to August, each team is guaranteed 10 championship games at least, have 2/3 promoted relegated each year.

Give me an argument against that that has nothing to do with tradition and I'll get back to you.

So converting the championship to a league system,obviously getting rid of current league.

Just one trophy to play for each year?

Would there still be an All Ireland final?

Its difficult to give an argument against something thats so poorly explained.

Prop Joe

harpsman wrote: »

So converting the championship to a league system,obviously getting rid of current league.

Just one trophy to play for each year?

Would there still be an All Ireland final?

Its difficult to give an argument against something thats so poorly explained.

I would much rather an open draw 32 with final 4 meeting beaten provincial finalists in last round.

Anyone who doubles up receives a bye to QF.

Every team could win an All Ireland in 6 games

Would increase importance of provincial championships as some big guns could go early in the open draw which would remove there safety net in the provincial.

Would love to see the Championship kick off with games like

Kerry v Tyrone
Dublin v Donegal
Monaghan v Mayo
Cork v Derry

Imagine a Munster champ Semi Final between Kerry v Cork with both teams gone in the "Backdoor"

DDC1990

DDC1990 wrote: »

AoaaaaaaaaaoaaawiaawaàowaaaoowaAawAaÀAoijoaa

What the fúck? I didn't post this?

ciarriaithuaidh

Prop Joe wrote: »

I would much rather an open draw 32 with final 4 meeting beaten provincial finalists in last round.

Anyone who doubles up receives a bye to QF.

Every team could win an All Ireland in 6 games

Would increase importance of provincial championships as some big guns could go early in the open draw which would remove there safety net in the provincial.

Would love to see the Championship kick off with games like

Kerry v Tyrone
Dublin v Donegal
Monaghan v Mayo
Cork v Derry

Imagine a Munster champ Semi Final between Kerry v Cork with both teams gone in the "Backdoor"

A 33 county open draw knockout you mean? With a provincial championship also knockout?
That's almost worse than the current system..you want teams to train for 6 months for 70 minutes of All Ireland championship action? Do people even realise what a f*cked up ratio of training/meaningful games this is? There is no equivalent in any sport that I know of.

What is wrong with the following:

3 groups of 11, with promotion/relegation from each group, 2/3 up and down.

Run the provincial championship, starting after round 5 or 6 of games.

Top 4 in division 1 go through to AI 1/4 finals. 5th and 6th in Division 1, Top 2 in division 2, and 4 provincial winners (8 teams) play off for 4 spots in 1/4 finals. (If there is an overlap here then the provincial runners-up or next highest placed league team get a spot.)

Every single team is guaranteed 10 decent games against opposition of a similar level. Every team has a chance of winning provincial honours which will still be important in overall championship, every team has a chance to progress up the ranks.

This is a rough description only and is based on the recommendations by the committee that Colm O'Rourke was on a few years ago. I think it could work and to me, it seems a damn sight better than the current mess or straight knockout or champions league style formats.

MacBizzle

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

..you want teams to train for 6 months for 70 minutes of All Ireland championship action? Do people even realise what a f*cked up ratio of training/meaningful games this is? There is no equivalent in any sport that I know of.

Boxing maybe? UFC? Certainly as amateurs the inter-county players put in a ridiculous amount of work for so few minutes in action.

Mal-Adjusted

I disagree with that system, but in saying that, will the players not still have full fixtures of league as well as club games? hardly training all year for 70-odd minutes. Though obviously the championship is far bigger than those two mentioned

Prop Joe

What i would suggest is 32 counties go into an open draw down to the last 4.

Concurringly the provincials would run

The final 4 of the open draw would play the 4 beaten provincial finalists

(Any team that doubles up would get a bye)

The 4 winners would play the 4 provincial winners in the AI QF

(Any team that doubles up would get a bye)


Every county can win the All Ireland in 6 games

The only team that could recieve a bye in the QF is a team that would have to progress through the open draw unbeaten and win their provence


This is a hugely fairer and more scheduled championship with far more scope for playing club games between Inter county games

Amprodude

Joe Deane had one of the nicest touches of the ball in the 2000's.

harpsman

DDC1990 wrote: »

What the fúck? I didn't post this?

Looks like the type of sh1t you would post:)

harpsman

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

A 33 county open draw knockout you mean? With a provincial championship also knockout?
That's almost worse than the current system..you want teams to train for 6 months for 70 minutes of All Ireland championship action? Do people even realise what a f*cked up ratio of training/meaningful games this is? There is no equivalent in any sport that I know of.

What is wrong with the following:

3 groups of 11, with promotion/relegation from each group, 2/3 up and down.

Run the provincial championship, starting after round 5 or 6 of games.

Top 4 in division 1 go through to AI 1/4 finals. 5th and 6th in Division 1, Top 2 in division 2, and 4 provincial winners (8 teams) play off for 4 spots in 1/4 finals. (If there is an overlap here then the provincial runners-up or next highest placed league team get a spot.)

Every single team is guaranteed 10 decent games against opposition of a similar level. Every team has a chance of winning provincial honours which will still be important in overall championship, every team has a chance to progress up the ranks.

This is a rough description only and is based on the recommendations by the committee that Colm O'Rourke was on a few years ago. I think it could work and to me, it seems a damn sight better than the current mess or straight knockout or champions league style formats.

well at least youve explained it a bit more. sure, this has alot going for it, but it still gives Mayo,cork and kerry a massive advantage.
And Id say its no less messy than current system which is as fair as you ll get while retaining rovincial championships.

harpsman

adrian522 wrote: »

Club fixtures should go ahead any weekend the county team is not in action. Inter County mamagers should have no power to veto club fixtures going ahead.

Not sure how unpopular that is, but club championships should all be completed by late September/Early October.

Agree fully. there should be a master fixture list incorporating all cluba nd county fixtures, staring in February and finishing with club final on oct bank holiday w/e. The idea of postponing your club championship til after your county is out is insane. The one caveat would be that all knockout fixtures would have to be decided on the day, so hello penalty shootouts:rolleyes:

Deedsie

I dont think the GAA should continue playing Amhrán na Bhfiann before every game... I think before final matches would be plenty.

Every effort should be made to finish Hill16/Dineen end to the same specification as the canal end.

Amprodude

There should be a buzzer to end game and not the ref calling the time.

MacBizzle

Deedsie wrote: »

Every effort should be made to finish Hill16/Dineen end to the same specification as the canal end.

Apparently this is 100% impossible due to the houses behind Hill 16.

klairondavis

MacBizzle wrote: »

Apparently this is 100% impossible due to the houses behind Hill 16.

The Sligo railway line doesn't help either.

yourmanthere

limerick dont actually play hurling. they just go out and fight for the ball with their sticks for 70 mins and sometimes give the ball to dowling who can score.

ciarriaithuaidh

harpsman wrote: »

well at least youve explained it a bit more. sure, this has alot going for it, but it still gives Mayo,cork and kerry a massive advantage.
And Id say its no less messy than current system which is as fair as you ll get while retaining rovincial championships.

The current system expects counties like Carlow, Leitrim and many more to have competitive teams playing against the likes of Mayo and Dublin in the championship (which takes months of training and preparation) and they usually get 140 minutes of championship game time. How can you not see that this is mental and is not going to lead to anything but these county's going backwards and not forwards?

Do you not agree that if these teams had 10-12 competitive games against teams close to their own level in a season, including a shot at the provincial championship, they would be more motivated and more than likely improve? They would get the opportunity to go up against big guns in their province so not would be able to measure their improvement also.

The current system is simply not a runner long-term in my view. All provincial football championships are now weak and added to that is the ridiculous gaps between games some teams experience, which in turn holds up club games in many counties also..the whole system needs to be changed, but people, even if they acknowledge this are very slow to implement or support change.

I've gone off the general theme of the thread here, so apologies..just got into the train of thought.

Amprodude

Clares All Ireland hurling team of 2013 were a bit overrated.

Deedsie

MacBizzle wrote: »

Apparently this is 100% impossible due to the houses behind Hill 16.

klairondavis wrote: »

The Sligo railway line doesn't help either.

Buy the remaining required houses off the residents. No matter how long it takes. The rail line could surely be tunnelled and a stand built over it? From an engineering point of view it can't be the most conplex project? They did it at Lansdowne Road with the Dart line?

I just want the GAA to have it as an ongoing process and not just accept that the current situation is the end of it?

I presume some of the house in the block behind hill 16 have already been purchased by the GAA?

Prop Joe

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Do you not agree that if these teams had 10-12 competitive games against teams close to their own level in a season, including a shot at the provincial championship,.

And when do the club players get games during the summer?

You can PM me to further this conversation as this is derailing the thread

Prop Joe

Amprodude wrote: »

There should be a buzzer to end game and not the ref calling the time.

Would rather the Ref signal the end of the game and then the ball must go dead at the end of the play like in Rugby

Deedsie wrote: »

Every effort should be made to finish Hill16/Dineen end to the same specification as the canal end.

I would be massively in favour of keeping terraces at all GAA grounds,They add hugely to a stadium.

Would rather they invested the money in coaching

Amprodude

Waterford missed the boat in the 2000's and will find it hard to win All Ireland for a while to come.

Tipp werent the wonder team that everyone expected them to be after 2010
and aren't consistent as a unit.

Cork hurling is brutal now compared what the county had decades ago.

Limerick need bottle to win in Croke Park.

Clare fans are the most annoying of them all.

Something wrong with Galway Senior hurling teams since 1988. Similiar to Limerick.

Dublin won't be serious All Ireland contendors ever.

Wexford hurling is a shambles.

Offaly don't have anything like they had in the 1990s.

Kilkenny hurling is the benchmark each year and the standard everyone needs to be at.

Christy Ring cup is a waste of time.

Ger Loughnane hasn't a clue.

Eddie Brennan was always underrated as a player.

Mike Duignan was an average player and is a so called expert.

Anthony Nash is the best striker of a ball ever.

Aidan Walsh isn't a great hurler but class athlete.

Clare are not as good as everyone are making them out to be and will be found out again in the qualfiers.

Galway will make hard work of Leinster again and will lose in qualfiers if they meet Tipp or Waterford.

Why are Antrim hurling?

Unpopular here I come.

klairondavis

Deedsie wrote: »

Buy the remaining required houses off the residents. No matter how long it takes. The rail line could surely be tunnelled and a stand built over it? From an engineering point of view it can't be the most conplex project? They did it at Lansdowne Road with the Dart line?

I just want the GAA to have it as an ongoing process and not just accept that the current situation is the end of it?

I presume some of the house in the block behind hill 16 have already been purchased by the GAA?

They could build over the line at Lansdowne Road because it is at ground level. The line that runs to the north of Croke Park is elevated. It would be a hugely complex job to reroute the line and not really worth the money involved.

Deedsie

klairondavis wrote: »

They could build over the line at Lansdowne Road because it is at ground level. The line that runs to the north of Croke Park is elevated. It would be a hugely complex job to reroute the line and not really worth the money involved.

I never suggested rerouting... I suggested a tunnel above a portion of it at the North West corner 3/4 of the way across to the North East corner of Croke Park. It wouldn't be all that complicated a job to build the stand on top of the tunnel...

I should have added my preference for the lower tier in The Hill end would be all standing/terrace section. I'd even consider re terracing the lower level at the canal end for atmosphere. Obviously both ends could be converted to being all seated if required for other sports if they required the use of Croke Park.

keeponhurling

AngeGal wrote: »

Niall Finnegan was the most under rated forward of the last two decades.

That's the lad who played for Galway right ?

Most under rated is difficult to judge, but I would have thought he was given reasonable credit?
I mean he's not as good as Donnellan, Joyce, de Paor, Ja or maybe even Savage right ?
He never won an All star , is that the gripe?

klairondavis

Deedsie wrote: »

I never suggested rerouting... I suggested a tunnel above a portion of it at the North West corner 3/4 of the way across to the North East corner of Croke Park. It wouldn't be all that complicated a job to build the stand on top of the tunnel...

I should have added my preference for the lower tier in The Hill end would be all standing/terrace section. I'd even consider re terracing the lower level at the canal end for atmosphere. Obviously both ends could be converted to being all seated if required for other sports if they required the use of Croke Park.

It sounds simple but looking at it from above it would appear to be a hugely complex and costly job: https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Croke+Park/@53.3611362,-6.2518742,237m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xe51347860e88b45f

The line is too close and too high to have the stadium uniform the whole way round.

Deedsie

Ok fine, piss all over my OCD dreams... I hate unfinished things and I love Croke Park. It just deflates me looking at it sometimes.

Ok another proposal.

Reinstate the Connacht hurling championship with Galway Intermediates representing them and the senior teams for the other four counties.

The winner qualifies for the All Ireland intermediate series.

savannahkat

Deedsie wrote: »

Ok fine, piss all over my OCD dreams... I hate unfinished things and I love Croke Park. It just deflates me looking at it sometimes.

Ok another proposal.

Reinstate the Connacht hurling championship with Galway Intermediates representing them and the senior teams for the other four counties.

The winner qualifies for the All Ireland intermediate series.

Its a great idea

Prop Joe

Deedsie wrote: »

Reinstate the Connacht hurling championship with Galway Intermediates representing them and the senior teams for the other four counties.

The winner qualifies for the All Ireland intermediate series.

I would love to see a Leinster Champ for non - Liam McCarthy teams same with a Connacht + Ulster same idea..Play them after the Christy Ring,Rackard cups

TCDStudent1

Deedsie wrote: »

Ok fine, piss all over my OCD dreams... I hate unfinished things and I love Croke Park. It just deflates me looking at it sometimes.

Ok another proposal.

Reinstate the Connacht hurling championship with Galway Intermediates representing them and the senior teams for the other four counties.

The winner qualifies for the All Ireland intermediate series.

I cant see that being unpopular with anybody.....

Deedsie

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I cant see that being unpopular with anybody.....

Roscommon, Leitrim, Mayo and Sligo senior hurlers may see it as an insult was my thinking

TCDStudent1

keeponhurling wrote: »

That's the lad who played for Galway right ?

Most under rated is difficult to judge, but I would have thought he was given reasonable credit?
I mean he's not as good as Donnellan, Joyce, de Paor, Ja or maybe even Savage right ?
He never won an All star , is that the gripe?

I think you may have just proved that poster's point. You do not put him in the same bracket as those guys. You have under-rated him! But many believe (as do I) that he belongs firmly in with that bracket of players. Personally, I would always pick him ahead of Savage. I would select Joyce ahead of Finnegan though. The other players listed are totally different type of player and should not be compared with him.

Finnegan gave me one of my all time favourite performances for Galway when he scored 9 points against Mayo in 1997. He scored 5 frees from his right foot, and 4 from play with his left.

I think Finnegan did deserve an all-star in 1998. Karl O'Dwyer was selected ahead of him. But Finnegan was crucial to Galway that year: He scored an equalising free in the drawn connacht final. I think he did the same in the replay to bring it to extra-time (Might be mistaken on that though) and he scored 2 crucial points against Kildare at beginning of 2nd half in the forward. He had a very consistent year in 1998. However, there are always hard calls when it comes to all-stars and he was one of the unlucky ones to miss out.

ReacherCreature

Amprodude wrote: »

Tipp werent the wonder team that everyone expected them to be after 2010
and aren't consistent as a unit.

No argument from me there (as a Tipp fan). The talent is certainly there from the backs to the forwards but they haven't kept it together. In years ahead it will be looked back at as a missed opportunity, especially if we fail to win anything this year.

Something wrong with Galway Senior hurling teams since 1988.

Dublin won't be serious All Ireland contendors ever.

Wexford hurling is a shambles.

Offaly don't have anything like they had in the 1990s.

Lot of negativity there but I agree with Galway in a sense. Right now, Joe Canning will go down in the books as a serious talent that likely won't win an AI but never say never. I'd swap the Wexford and Offaly opinions around. Offaly are in a worse state right now.

Prop Joe

Watch everyone get the horn now with the Hurling qualifier draw Tipp v KK/Galway

Why?

Cause one of the big guys is going out,Do or die...Everyone loves these games

Watch Spain v Australia tonight - Neither team wants to be there,Both play reserve sides.

A group stage in the All Ireland would kill it