Average take home pay of 25-49 year olds in Ireland is €790!!!???

_Kaiser_

Qualitymark wrote: »

Except wouldn't it be better if we had a more or less equal salary society, like, say, Japan, and homes sold and rented for rational prices?

It would - in terms of rational house pricing anyway, not sure I agree on the salary bit! Where's the incentive to work harder/improve? - but this is Ireland where you're seen as a failure unless you own your own house. Sure renting is only for "poor people" or a temporary stepping-stone to ownership!

Seeing as our government and media are busy making the most of the mini-bubble in SCD as some sort of return to form for the country I wouldn't expect change anytime soon either.

Calibos

Our household makes about €130,000 a year net after tax which would be included in those figures.

Thing is though, its 2 parents, 4 adult 'kids' and 1 significant other. None can afford to move out. 1 is on Dole. 1 is on Job-Bridge and 3 on minimum wage. None of us have had a foreign holiday in about 5 years, lucky to be able to afford to go out more than 2 or 3 nights a month, I haven't been able to buy new clothes unless desperate in years, all paying down some debt and paying share of bills, making sacrifices to keep business going etc etc

On the surface and according to those figures, this household is a wealthy one. We'd have gone stir crazy if the family home wasn't a nice large 4 bed recently renovated Victorian home in a nice area (The debt we are all helping to pay down) However as far as disposable income outside of barely keeping on top of bills and keeping the business afloat and feeding ourselves goes, we as a household are dirt poor.

How many families are in a similar situation. SFA disposable income but the household pulling in over a hundred grand and pulling that average figure from this study way upwards???

folan

Qualitymark wrote: »

Except wouldn't it be better if we had a more or less equal salary society, like, say, Japan, and homes sold and rented for rational prices?

so, no motivation to improve and do better to get higher wages?

whats a rational price for a house based on? Size? location? proximity to amenities? what people are prepared to pay for it?

Geuze

Calibos wrote: »

Our household makes about €130,000 a year net after tax which would be included in those figures.

Thing is though, its 2 parents, 4 adult 'kids' and 1 significant other. None can afford to move out. 1 is on Dole. 1 is on Job-Bridge and 3 on minimum wage. None of us have had a foreign holiday in about 5 years, lucky to be able to afford to go out more than 2 or 3 nights a month, I haven't been able to buy new clothes unless desperate in years, all paying down some debt and paying share of bills, making sacrifices to keep business going etc etc

Over 7 adults, the equivalent disposable income per person is 18,570 pa.

This means that you are by no means "rich".

Tar.Aldarion

Qualitymark wrote: »

The figures sound unlikely. There's a thread on here about working for Apple from home, and they're paying €23,000 to €26,000, for instance.
I'm glad to hear that some young people are well paid, but doubt very much that the average cited is correct.

That would be a fairly low tier skill job, but anyway if grads start around that in jobs it by no means reflects their earnings at 49, it's such a huge gap

elefant

NTMK wrote: »

you have to remember there is probably a lot more 21-24 working full time jobs earning about that if not more than 16-20 years as most in that age group dont work

i assume this was carried out on 16-24 year olds that are currently employed the numbers working in the upper half would greatly skew the result

im 24 and my take home pays is around €2200, other course mates from Uni are on about the same and grad jobs pay around 15-1800 net a month so its not completely un-realistic

We're in similar situations, but you'd have to think the number of teenagers earning buttons would be much, much higher than young adults in their early twenties earning over 2000 a month!

Maximus Alexander

elefant wrote: »

We're in similar situations, but you'd have to think the number of teenagers earning buttons would be much, much higher than young adults in their early twenties earning over 2000 a month!

How common do you reckon it would be to have, say, two 22 year olds living together on 24k each? That would be a household income of €790 per week, which would contribute to these figures and work to balance out those that are not working at all.

Qualitymark

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

It would - in terms of rational house pricing anyway, not sure I agree on the salary bit! Where's the incentive to work harder/improve?

It's a matter of opinion, but I've never noticed that people worked harder for more money. My own observation is that people work hard when they enjoy and value their work and colleagues.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

That would be a fairly low tier skill job, but anyway if grads start around that in jobs it by no means reflects their earnings at 49, it's such a huge gap

If they're hiring graduates and expecting them to be computerate and well-educated, scarcely.

elefant

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

How common do you reckon it would be to have, say, two 22 year olds living together on 24k each? That would be a household income of €790 per week, which would contribute to these figures and work to balance out those that are not working at all.

Yeah, when I wrote first I didn't really catch on it was a household thing. Don't see the point in including 16 year olds in the survey if that's the case!

Maximus Alexander

elefant wrote: »

Yeah, when I wrote first I didn't really catch on it was a household thing. Don't see the point in including 16 year olds in the survey if that's the case!

I suppose it's just because 16 year olds legally can work and even with a part time job at the weekend would technically contribute to the household income figure.

nelly17

Calibos wrote: »

Our household makes about €130,000 a year net after tax which would be included in those figures.

Thing is though, its 2 parents, 4 adult 'kids' and 1 significant other. None can afford to move out. 1 is on Dole. 1 is on Job-Bridge and 3 on minimum wage. None of us have had a foreign holiday in about 5 years, lucky to be able to afford to go out more than 2 or 3 nights a month, I haven't been able to buy new clothes unless desperate in years, all paying down some debt and paying share of bills, making sacrifices to keep business going etc etc

On the surface and according to those figures, this household is a wealthy one. We'd have gone stir crazy if the family home wasn't a nice large 4 bed recently renovated Victorian home in a nice area (The debt we are all helping to pay down) However as far as disposable income outside of barely keeping on top of bills and keeping the business afloat and feeding ourselves goes, we as a household are dirt poor.

How many families are in a similar situation. SFA disposable income but the household pulling in over a hundred grand and pulling that average figure from this study way upwards???

Honestly I'd say most families are in a similar situation in one way or another the working class/poor or whatever you want to call it is not doing particularly well these days

bnt

Screw the Average - it's a useless measure since the distribution is badly skewed. What's the Median?

(If you don't know what I mean, read this for example. )

Maximus Alexander

bnt wrote: »

Screw the Average - it's a useless measure since the distribution is badly skewed. What's the Median?

(If you don't know what I mean, read this for example. )

The figures quoted in the article are median.

bnt

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The figures quoted in the article are median.

Which article? The one linked by the OP is all about averages, no mention of medians there. I did check ...

snubbleste

Greyian wrote: »

If we have 3,999,999 people with 2 legs, and 1 person with 1 leg (because of some freak accident or whatever), that'd mean there's 7,999,999 legs (3,999,999*2 + 1) between 4 million people.

That would mean that there are 1.99999975 legs per person in Ireland, or the average number of legs is 1.999999975. I think that was his entire point, the average (edit: in this case) isn't indicative of the norm.

Thanks! I thought my one liner was obvious

Maximus Alexander

bnt wrote: »

Which article? The one linked by the OP is all about averages, no mention of medians there. I did check ...

Yeah the article itself is pretty awful, but the study it draws from was linked earlier in the thread and it states that the figures are median. And also that they are household income, not individual.

Qualitymark

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yeah the article itself is pretty awful, but the study it draws from was linked earlier in the thread and it states that the figures are median. And also that they are household income, not individual.

These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.

Buzz Killington the third

Jesus would you look at the age ranges

16-24 : 8 years
25-49: 24
50-64: 14
65+ : ?

But sure if they had reasonably consistent ranges then there'd be no sensationalist headline.

ScumLord

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yeah the article itself is pretty awful, but the study it draws from was linked earlier in the thread and it states that the figures are median. And also that they are household income, not individual.

Household makes a bit more sense, young people tend to live in shared accommodation, the middle aged have moved in with their parents and the OAPs all live together in nursing homes. Now I can see how they got to those numbers per household.

Qualitymark

Lots of OAPs live with their children, so their pension would be in the pot, a big load of money if it's a public service pension.

Geuze

Qualitymark wrote: »

These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.

Always go direct to the original source.

Official earnings data here:

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/


Official household income data here:

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/socialconditions/surveyofincomeandlivingconditionssilcmainresults/

Geuze

Qualitymark wrote: »

These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.

Most recent earnings data from the CSO:

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq42013finalq12014preliminaryestimates/#.U5r8hPldWSo

Geuze

Qualitymark wrote: »

These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.

Most recent household income data:

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/silc/2012/silc_2012.pdf

bnt

Qualitymark wrote: »

These studies seem to veer all over the joint; I remember one last year or the year before that said average household income was €22,000, another €36,000.

That's kind-of what I am getting at: the average (mean) might be €36,000, while the median might be €22,000. Using an Average calculation only really makes sense if the distribution is symnmetrical, that is, there just as many above-average as below-average households. I suspect there are many more below average than above average, if the high incomes are skewing the average upwards.

dcollins

Thanks for the labour stats, better to go to the source than get something that has been editorialized!
Much appreciated.

padd b1975

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Whats so special about a retail manager that requires a higher salary?

It takes a special kind of person to pull off the cheap suit/complete prick combo.

chrysagon

padd b1975 wrote: »

It takes a special kind of person to pull off the cheap suit/complete prick combo.

we call them politicians!!

UCDVet

Anything to do with money should be discussed in terms of median. Probably already been mentioned, but still. Not even worth talking about averages IMHO

BeerWolf

Looks like someone doesn't know about the standard deviation format of getting an actual average....

Skatedude

I'm 42 and a maintenance tech with a big mutli national. No one i know in the factory are on anything close to that. the vast majority of the techs would be on app 29 to 30k a year before tax.

Where do they come up with these figures?

Maximus Alexander

Skatedude wrote: »

I'm 42 and a maintenance tech with a big mutli national. No one i know in the factory are on anything close to that. the vast majority of the techs would be on app 29 to 30k a year before tax.

Where do they come up with these figures?

Household income.

Grayson

Skatedude wrote: »

I'm 42 and a maintenance tech with a big mutli national. No one i know in the factory are on anything close to that. the vast majority of the techs would be on app 29 to 30k a year before tax.

Where do they come up with these figures?

I work for a big multinational. It's a 4 story building. First floor is a call centre. Average take home would be about 28-30k.

The fourth floor is all analysts. Most would be on 60k+. The starting wage there is about 50k.

Most of the building would be under 50 years old,


The figures in the indo would easily reflect where I work.

Egginacup

It's definitely true that some people can't live on any amount of money. 10 years ago I was taking home 3500 euros every two weeks. I was single and my apartment (all inclusive) cost 1k a month. So 6k a month was my disposable income in a relatively cheap European city. I saved a lot but blew a lot too. Now my take home is half that....but apt is still the same price, and I have bills too. It's hard to scale back on the crap you got used to when you had money to burn.

swimming in a sea

I worked as IT maintenance person for a few months 2 years ago in a telecom company in Dublin, the HR person left down her laptop to get looked at and left the contractors salary information spreadsheet open;)

So had a quick look and saw that all the 10 radio engineers were on rolling contracts of 105k pa (these were the nerdy looking guys who would look at the floor when you'd say hello) I was on a 35k and fixing their laptops :mad:

I'm in a new job and doing better but not going to get those wages any time soon, anyway what I'm trying to say is there is a lot of people out there getting paid very well.

Caliden

Average wage is useless, median wage should be the measure.

fizzypish

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I worked as IT maintenance person for a few months 2 years ago in a telecom company in Dublin, the HR person left down her laptop to get looked at and left the contractors salary information spreadsheet open;)

So had a quick look and saw that all the 10 radio engineers were on rolling contracts of 105k pa (these were the nerdy looking guys who would look at the floor when you'd say hello) I was on a 35k and fixing their laptops :mad:

I'm in a new job and doing better but not going to get those wages any time soon, anyway what I'm trying to say is there is a lot of people out there getting paid very well.

RF electronics is a huge clusterfook of black magic. There aren't that many people capable of doing such a job.

jimgoose

fizzypish wrote: »

RF electronics is a huge clusterfook of black magic. There aren't that many people capable of doing such a job.

I was an infrastructure engineer at Motorola for seven years back in the day, and as far as I was and am concerned, RF is Ninjitsu. :pac:

Larbre34

The median is the key thing alright. And I wouldnt be listening to anyone other than the CSO on income stats. Only they have the true picture.

anncoates

A lot of people just don't really grasp what average wage means.

chrysagon

what does it mean?

i work for a very big company, and i know many of the pay scales, and theres a huge difference, ranging from 27k to 150+..even many of my friends, with degrees etc, aint pulling home 800 euro take home pay..

jimgoose

chrysagon wrote: »

what does it mean?

i work for a very big company, and i know many of the pay scales, and theres a huge difference, ranging from 27k to 150+..even many of my friends, with degrees etc, aint pulling home 800 euro take home pay..

A degree will get you in the door as a cabbage-looking grad earning entry-level salary. A degree in computer science will get you in the door as a cabbage-looking rookie Java programmer (most likely) earning a somewhat better entry-level salary.

Alun

fizzypish wrote: »

RF electronics is a huge clusterfook of black magic. There aren't that many people capable of doing such a job.

Yeah, at those frequencies all kinds of normally irrelevant aspects of the physical layout of circuits start to take on huge significance. Same goes for very high voltage or current applications.

Qualitymark

Skatedude wrote: »

Where do they come up with these figures?

Dáil bar? Hillwalking on the Silver Spear and picking magic mushrooms?

fizzypish wrote: »

RF electronics is a huge clusterfook of black magic. There aren't that many people capable of doing such a job.

Left nipple, funny handshake?

fizzypish

Qualitymark wrote: »

Left nipple, funny handshake?

They refuse to turn left. RF engineers must obey the right hand rule!

The Corinthian

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This time around (cause it IS starting again - I know personally of one person who got a call from the bank lately asking if they can do anything for him, and we recently had a mail go around from AIB offering 8am mortgage appointments!) I WILL be accepting every cent they offer me - the loans, the credit cards, maybe even a "pre-approved" mortgage

Why? Because NOT doing so last time left me screwed over anyway and paying for those that did and while I have had to deal with the Wild West that is the private rental sector since, such people can rest securely that the chances of them being turfed out for non-payment is virtually nil!

Interesting that this appears to be the lesson we've learned from the last bubble.

Daith

The Corinthian wrote: »

Interesting that this appears to be the lesson we've learned from the last bubble.

House prices go up means Ireland is A-Ok!

Cravez

I haven't read all the thread but you'll find alot of contractors (particularly working in IT) will earn those types of wages. I would fall under this bracket as I am a contracting in IT.

Now, contracting is not great for job security nor is it viable for long term so I know that even perhaps later in this year that I will not have those types of wages (and am saving as much as I can). You also do not get paid for holidays or sick.

If I move to a permanent job, the pay could be 30-40% less for the same type of work but i'll at least get more security, benefits, holidays, sick leave etc. There is the balance between contracting and being a permanent staff. It's great if you have no major commitments such as a mortage and you can save huge amounts in a short time.

Currently you'll find quite alot of big companies are using contractors & I think you'll find that contracting also helps contribute to this higher average wage even though it's not a "permanently" viable income.

HAMMERCURRENT

fizzypish wrote: »

RF electronics is a huge clusterfook of black magic. There aren't that many people capable of doing such a job.

Agree!

fizzypish wrote: »

They refuse to turn left. RF engineers must obey the right hand rule!

Possibly wasted on most people! but funny.

Geuze

CSO household income data from 2012

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/silc/2012/silc_2012.pdf

Table 4b

Average household earned income = market income =

PLUS social transfers = gross income = 52,265

LESS direct income taxes = disposable income = 40,505

Geuze

Disposable income, CSO data, 2012

Note: disposable = earned + social benefits - direct taxes


Mean = 40,505 per household

Median = 33,113 per household