Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

FutureGuy

Carvalho for 37m

OR

Vidal for 47m and sell Young to recoup 10m

Let me think about that for a moment.

RasTa

You're speaking like we can just spend another 10m and Vidal will sign for us.

Liam O

Carvalho may only be 22 but when you are talking about 35-40m for a player you have to wonder if it's not possible to find these players a year or 3 earlier for much less money. Fergie used to be great at spending decent enough but not outrageous money and getting a good young player who wasn't going to have the expectation that such a fee brings and would grow with the team. Getting someone like Jones or Smalling, highly rated young players when they were available for less than 20m rather than waiting 2 or so seasons when teams would be looking for 25-30m.

DM_7

Its better to spend a bit more sometimes on a player ready to contribute than buy an even younger player who is going to be down the pecking order (especially in a crunch game) and often end up with their development hindered.

When all fit Smalling and Jones for example would always be behind Rio and Vidic. I think both players would have developed more playing elsewhere up to now.

Whatsisname

We've enough players with potential to get better, De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Welbeck, Cleverley etc, now is the time we need to get proven quality in and we're not doing too bad so far this summer

Zico

Whatsisname wrote: »

We've enough players with potential to get better, De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Welbeck, Cleverley etc, now is the time we need to get proven quality in and we're not doing too bad so far this summer

There's a few of them that must be saving their potential for a rainy day.

lordgoat

Liam O wrote: »

Carvalho may only be 22 but when you are talking about 35-40m for a player you have to wonder if it's not possible to find these players a year or 3 earlier for much less money. Fergie used to be great at spending decent enough but not outrageous money and getting a good young player who wasn't going to have the expectation that such a fee brings and would grow with the team. Getting someone like Jones or Smalling, highly rated young players when they were available for less than 20m rather than waiting 2 or so seasons when teams would be looking for 25-30m.

Sometimes you just need to spend the cash. This summer is one of these times. Players on board for end of WC. Preseason. Sell the deadwood. Win the league. Done.

DARK-KNIGHT

lvg is gonna banish the moyes effect

Pro. F

People always seem to think that there's a terrible shortage of top class players, there isn't. If you can't get a 22 year old from the Portuguese league for less than £30m, then just move on to the next one.

Just look at the prices top quality players move for in Seria A, Primera and Bundesliga and then tell me that we have to sign this one particular overpriced player over anyone else.

dahat

Ian ladyman is running that fellani is too be sold by start of the season.

Whatsisname

Devils of United ‏@DevilsOfUnited 34m
Alexis Sanchez has ruled out a move to Manchester United because of no Champions League football, according to Catalunya Radio. #MUFC

Adamcp898

Whatsisname wrote: »

Tbh, as much as we'd all love players of his talent to be at the club, these prospective LVG United XI's are hard enough to lineup without him.

brinty

Whatsisname wrote: »

So no San-dal
but we could have Ander Mata-gawa Vidal instead
I'd be happy with that

Donnielighto

Dal?

Edit: I'm an idiot

FutureGuy

Whatsisname wrote: »

Absolutely no problem whatsoever (if true). I don't want anyone at the club who is worrying about a single year of no CL at the club. It shows little faith.

I've been impressed by the way Shaw and Herrera have handled their interviews thus far. We need more players like that.

bucketybuck

I'm not massively concerned about missing out on the likes of Sanchez. We already have easily enough attacking options for our needs next season, the lads there can handle the league and FA cup well enough, so we should be concentrating all transfer energy on midfield and defence as far as I am concerned.

brinty

Donnielighto wrote: »

Dal?

Edit: I'm an idiot

Sanchez and Vidal......

Adamocovic

So papers saying United will sell Fellaini. Daily Mail claim that "sources" have told them that VG has said "Is not a Manchester United player" when asked about him. Who are these "sources"? Who knows, have to wonder do the the tabloids take any quote and publish it.

Fellaini wasn't exactly mesmerising last season but not many were. Don't know what I make of him yet tbh, and wouldn't be extremely shocked to see him go, but it sounds like this rumour of what VG supposedly said is just to make up space.

And Carvalho seems like a good player, although the asking price isn't exactly ideal if we have the money to spend and can't find a cheaper alternative that is as good we might as well go for it.

UnitedIrishman

Just with regards transfer fees - I know we're looking at fees these days and saying 'X isn't worth that much, that's crazy money' but that's the way transfers in general have gone these days. Where the rest of the business world stopped and hit a wall, transfer fees have increased and there's more money swirling around the top of the game than ever. Look at United's own revenue - it has increased from 243m in 2005 to double that in the last couple of years. Our sponsorship has gone up, TV money is up, other outrageous commercial deals have come about - and then add in the money the Qatari guys are paying for the likes of Luiz and Falcao. That's why paying 30 - 40m (whilst seemingly nuts) has to be looked at in comparison to now and the future rather than what was paid for players in the past.

What I'm trying to say is for 30m, think of it as 20m.. in old money. :pac: Also I wouldn't get too caught up in what we're paying for players as such as long as it isn't to the detriment of the future of the club. I don't think there's a set amount of money Van Gaal/Woodward has and that's it - it'll be a case of 'do we need this player, if yes, sign him but walk away if the value is gone.'

Pro. F

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Just with regards transfer fees - I know we're looking at fees these days and saying 'X isn't worth that much, that's crazy money' but that's the way transfers in general have gone these days. Where the rest of the business world stopped and hit a wall, transfer fees have increased and there's more money swirling around the top of the game than ever. Look at United's own revenue - it has increased from 243m in 2005 to double that in the last couple of years. Our sponsorship has gone up, TV money is up, other outrageous commercial deals have come about - and then add in the money the Qatari guys are paying for the likes of Luiz and Falcao. That's why paying 30 - 40m (whilst seemingly nuts) has to be looked at in comparison to now and the future rather than what was paid for players in the past.

What I'm trying to say is for 30m, think of it as 20m.. in old money. :pac: Also I wouldn't get too caught up in what we're paying for players as such as long as it isn't to the detriment of the future of the club. I don't think there's a set amount of money Van Gaal/Woodward has and that's it - it'll be a case of 'do we need this player, if yes, sign him but walk away if the value is gone.'

It's true that the very top of the market has inflated in the way that you describe. But if you go beyond the silly transfers, every season you will see players of equal quality going for a quarter of the price. And I'm not talking about the anomalous bargains, I'm talking about the constant flow of transfers around the big leagues in Europe.

And whatever you think about revenues at the club, there is a budget for transfers and it is finite. United cannot afford to compete with Real, PSG, City and the like on transfers.

UnitedIrishman

Pro. F wrote: »

It's true that the very top of the market has inflated in the way that you describe. But if you go beyond the silly transfers, every season you will see players of equal quality going for a quarter of the price. And I'm not talking about the anomalous bargains, I'm talking about the constant flow of transfers around the big leagues in Europe.

And whatever you think about revenues at the club, there is a budget for transfers and it is finite. United cannot afford to compete with Real, PSG, City and the like on transfers.

Oh of course it's finite and we're not going to compete with the unlimited funds they have. And you still have the middle tier of Premier League players going for reasonable sums. But what I'm saying is that paying 30m for someone like Carvalho is the done thing nowadays when you see the likes of Illaramendi going for about 32m and James Rodriguez for 39m (no doubt worth more after this World Cup). And we were always going to have to spend big at least one season to rebuild given how our squad aged.

Unfortunately the way of the world means that these fees will only increase to the point of it being regular for 50m for a top player - until the ceiling either collapses on the whole thing or it plateau's off when income levels off.

newballsplease

In relation to Fellaini... Be great if he's sold for anything between 12-20million.
Get rid conpletely of the Moyes factor in the side.
Ive said it before, His best position is off the front man where balls are lobbed upto him to knock down or chest and pass. Hes good in the box to get on the end of high balls. thats it.

Im not sure where he played for Belgium in qualifying,some say defensive midfield. Looking at the USA v Belgium game he appeared to be playing higher up then that. He was shocking again. How he lasted on thd pitch ahead of Hazard is anyones guess.
We cant give this man another season to see if 'he will come good'.
Surely at this stage,you know what your getting when he plays in a holding midfield role. And its not near good enough for ManUtd.
A panic buy last year and a hugemistake. The first of many by Moyes.

duffman13

newballsplease wrote: »

In relation to Fellaini... Be great if he's sold for anything between 12-20million.
Get rid conpletely of the Moyes factor in the side.
Ive said it before, His best position is off the front man where balls are lobbed upto him to knock down or chest and pass. Hes good in the box to get on the end of high balls. thats it.

Im not sure where he played for Belgium in qualifying,some say defensive midfield. Looking at the USA v Belgium game he appeared to be playing higher up then that. He was shocking again. How he lasted on thd pitch ahead of Hazard is anyones guess.
We cant give this man another season to see if 'he will come good'.
Surely at this stage,you know what your getting when he plays in a holding midfield role. And its not near good enough for ManUtd.
A panic buy last year and a hugemistake. The first of many by Moyes.

In fairness they were under siege when Hazard came off, Fellaini is the better option when your under seize trying to defend a lead with balls constantly getting lumped in the box. How he started over Dembele is a mystery. He is no great shakes but offers a bit more than Fellaini

Mantis Toboggan

duffman13 wrote: »

In fairness they were under siege when Hazard came off, Fellaini is the better option when your under seize trying to defend a lead with balls constantly getting lumped in the box. How he started over Dembele is a mystery. He is no great shakes but offers a bit more than Fellaini

Dembele has been terrible for atleast the last 12 months and was easily the worst player on the field in the games that he started at the wc. Fellani isn't great but he's worked harder and got a crucial goal in their opening game.

duffman13

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Dembele has been terrible for atleast the last 12 months and was easily the worst player on the field in the games that he started at the wc. Fellani isn't great but he's worked harder and got a crucial goal in their opening game.

in fairness they've both been bad the last 12 months but Dembele offers more. Fellaini has done very little besides that substitute appearance. The ball moves quicker with Dembele on the pitch IMO. I feel Fellaini would have more impact from the bench.

Zico

Fellaini is better off starting fresh elsewhere. The millstone of his cocked-up transfer and being a symbol of the Moyes era will always be hanging over him. He'll be a squad filler at best so his chances of winning over fans and critics are very limited at Utd. He is the worst signing in Utd's history so I bet Woodward would be glad to get shot of him too.

Corvo

I was really hoping that Fellaini would have a good World Cup, be it in CM or pushed further up. Anything to get his confidence going and show the new manager and the United fans that he could make it at United and that it was just bad season all round for us and not just himself who underperformed.

Unfortunately, he has shown nothing which makes me think that he can make at United.

I was at the Everton home game last year and had some great seats with an overview of the pitch so you could see quite clearly his movement - or in this case - lack of it. I've never seen a player so static in my life.

Sell him on, take the hit on the transfer fee and put it in the fund for Strootman in January.

markcahill1985

Dont get how Fellaini is still regarded as a panic buy. We were after him all summer but were just offering money that was never going to be accepted. Also Moyes has said publicly that he did want to sign Fellaini all along however he would have liked a top class player as his first signing and then to snap up Fellaini almost under the radar.

Still crap though

FutureGuy

I don't think there is any win for Fellaini. He is the living embodiment of everything that went wrong with the team under Moyes and that's a shame as he was showing some improvement towards the end of last season after coming back from injury.

Under LVG, I can't see him being anything except a bench player who comes on under particular circumstances.

I could easily see him being sold to get some cash for a major CM. 15-20m, cut the perceived losses and get in someone who is world class.

Corvo

FutureGuy wrote: »

I don't think there is any win for Fellaini. He is the living embodiment of everything that went wrong with the team under Moyes and that's a shame as he was showing some improvement towards the end of last season after coming back from injury.

Under LVG, I can't see him being anything except a bench player who comes on under particular circumstances.

I could easily see him being sold to get some cash for a major CM. 15-20m, cut the perceived losses and get in someone who is world class.

I doubt we would even get £15m for him, truth be told. His reputation from 2013/2014 pales in comparison to that 2012/2013. Other teams will know they hold the upper hand when it comes to negotiations.

Zico

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Dont get how Fellaini is still regarded as a panic buy. We were after him all summer but were just offering money that was never going to be accepted. Also Moyes has said publicly that he did want to sign Fellaini all along however he would have liked a top class player as his first signing and then to snap up Fellaini almost under the radar.

Still crap though

The last line is accurate.

I'm too polite to comment on the rest of what you said there.

advertsfox

Confirmed, the new kit is out - http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/confirmed-the-best-pictures-yet-of-manchester-uniteds-new-20142015-home-shirt/

Looks very nice I think, better than the other pictures we seen.

Corvo

That's a lot better than I thought actually, prefer tighter fitting jerseys. Will still wait for the black third jersey though.

advertsfox

And I've improved it

markc1184

Amazing what a decent quality picture can do for a jersey.

markcahill1985

Zico wrote: »

The last line is accurate.

I'm too polite to comment on the rest of what you said there.

I dont get it? Its a fact Utd were after him all last summer, therefore he wasnt a panic buy, they didnt just pull his name out of a hat at the last minute and decide he would do, he was always a player Moyes wanted last summer.

Maximus Alexander

I haven't bought a jersey in years, how do they hold up to washing?

Corvo

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I haven't bought a jersey in years, how do they hold up to washing?

Washing? :rolleyes:

Mr_Red

Manchester United miss out on Toni Kroos as Real Madrid 'sign German international'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-miss-out-toni-3802476#ixzz36OVow6en
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

Deiseboy01

Collar and sleeves have a nice retro seventies umbro vibe to them. Little button is stupid looking while the logo is awful, ruins the shirt.

beakerjoe

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I haven't bought a jersey in years, how do they hold up to washing?

Mine doesnt wash anything, lazy so and so it is

FutureGuy

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Collar and sleeves have a nice retro seventies umbro vibe to them. Little button is stupid looking while the logo is awful, ruins the shirt.

scissors.gif

Maximus Alexander

Corvo wrote: »

Washing? :rolleyes:

beakerjoe wrote: »

Mine doesnt wash anything, lazy so and so it is

Thanks for the help guys...

bucketybuck

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Dont get how Fellaini is still regarded as a panic buy. We were after him all summer but were just offering money that was never going to be accepted.

Offering money that was never going to be accepted? Like millions more than his release clause?

markcahill1985

bucketybuck wrote: »

Offering money that was never going to be accepted? Like millions more than his release clause?

You clearly read that post wrong, the bids that were never going to be accepted were earlier in the summer, bids like 28m for both Fellaini and Baines for example
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/231169.html

Zico

markcahill1985 wrote: »

I dont get it? Its a fact Utd were after him all last summer, therefore he wasnt a panic buy, they didnt just pull his name out of a hat at the last minute and decide he would do, he was always a player Moyes wanted last summer.

Fellaini is the definition of a panic buy.

The stuff Moyes is quoted as saying recently about that transfer could have been written by Luis Suarez for all the truth to it.

Take a step back and imagine it was a team you didn't support. Things will seem a lot more clear to you, if you can stop yourself laughing for long enough.:o

RobertKK

It is reported in a Chilean paper that a deal between United and Vidal is close.
http://mobile.latercera.com/noticia/deportes/2014/06/656-584469-9-van-gaal-y-manchester-united-siguen-de-cerca-a-vidal.shtml

Professey Chin

RobertKK wrote: »

It is reported in a Chilean paper that a deal between United and Vidal is close.
http://mobile.latercera.com/noticia/deportes/2014/06/656-584469-9-van-gaal-y-manchester-united-siguen-de-cerca-a-vidal.shtml

Google Translate of the 1st paragraph :pac:

Although Arturo Vidal was not a world according to their performance in Juventus, the wheel keeps hogging equipment looks the first planetary order.

Corvo

RobertKK wrote: »

It is reported in a Chilean paper that a deal between United and Vidal is close.
http://mobile.latercera.com/noticia/deportes/2014/06/656-584469-9-van-gaal-y-manchester-united-siguen-de-cerca-a-vidal.shtml

Its dated the 29/06 and I don't know much about its reliablility. Must check out SportWitness.

redbaron_99

RobertKK wrote: »

It is reported in a Chilean paper that a deal between United and Vidal is close.
http://mobile.latercera.com/noticia/deportes/2014/06/656-584469-9-van-gaal-y-manchester-united-siguen-de-cerca-a-vidal.shtml

If it's true that Fellaini is up for sale, would it suggest that we are looking for two central midfielders?
Vidal and Carvalho would be brilliant IF it happens.