Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Rooney's control and passing are better than RVP's and he scores just as many goals when he's the main striker. He also does more work than RVP on the pitch. So if Rooney isn't good enough to satisfy you, you must be raging with van Persie.

I think when Rooney is in his bad spells, his control goes all over the place, its like throwing a tennis ball against a wall, it just fires back.

Since RVP's arrival I've been pretty much mesmerized by his control, something I never noticed at Arsenal. The ball just sticks to him, and he seems to be one of the best in terms of taking the ball into himself while under pressure.

I'd probably rate RVP's control higher then Rooney's.

MagicIRL

Lord TSC wrote: »

And Mitten is claiming that when Moyes was sacked, Mancini approached the club and asked to replace him :eek:

RobertKK

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

L.A Galaxy - 23rd July
A.S Roma - 26th July
Inter Milan - 29th July
Real Madrid - 2nd August

..and a 5th match on August 4th - a final if we top the group.

Anyone have match times. I expect these matches involve a lot of sleep disturbance.

Will I Amnt

TheDoc wrote: »

I think when Rooney is in his bad spells, his control goes all over the place, its like throwing a tennis ball against a wall, it just fires back.

Since RVP's arrival I've been pretty much mesmerized by his control, something I never noticed at Arsenal. The ball just sticks to him, and he seems to be one of the best in terms of taking the ball into himself while under pressure.

I'd probably rate RVP's control higher then Rooney's.

RvP's control is streets ahead of Rooney's IMO.

bangkok

Will I Amnt wrote: »

RvP's control is streets ahead of Rooney's IMO.

would have to agree, and its a non contest imo... rvp has a delicate touch ball sticks to his foot, how many times have you seen the ball bounce off rooneys shin etc

keane2097

Will I Amnt wrote: »

RvP's control is streets ahead of Rooney's IMO.

It was the passing statement that raised my eyebrows more, but agree I would have RVP comfortably ahead of Rooney at both.

Pro. F

It's funny how quickly you all forget RVP's poor play and Rooney's good play.

keane2097

Pro. F wrote: »

It's funny how quickly you all forget RVP's poor play and Rooney's good play.

Well it's either amnesia or a differing opinion, probs amnesia I suppose.

bucketybuck

adox wrote: »

Hardly relevant is it? The point is the public utterings he made about Moyes when he was on the verge of being sacked. The vehicle he used is irrelevant.

Twitter updates are about as relevant as scratchings on the wall of a public loo. If you want to give credence to half formed vague utterings that hint at things without ever actually saying anything directly then more power to you, but when it comes to judging Rio Ferdinand I will stick to the important things.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

Twitter updates are about as relevant as scratchings on the wall of a public loo. If you want to give credence to half formed vague utterings that hint at things without ever actually saying anything directly then more power to you, but when it comes to judging Rio Ferdinand I will stick to the important things.

Cool that you've figured out twitter is silly without using it while the other 250 million of us toil away like morans. I wish I was as smrt as you.

Zico

Pro. F wrote: »

It's funny how quickly you all forget RVP's poor play and Rooney's good play.

I find myself forgetting Young, Welbeck and Cleverley's good play too. Is it an English thing?

Invertpyramid

bucketybuck wrote: »

Twitter updates are about as relevant as scratchings on the wall of a public loo. If you want to give credence to half formed vague utterings that hint at things without ever actually saying anything directly then more power to you, but when it comes to judging Rio Ferdinand I will stick to the important things.

What a man says and does is important. Twitter gives players a voice that they didn't have before. This usually highlights what utter idiots they are but its a good thing for the fans. It lets them know the personalities of the players they "worship".

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

Cool that you've figured out twitter is silly without using it while the other 250 million of us toil away like morans. I wish I was as smrt as you.

*Morons.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

*Morons.

and smrt - you got half the jokes

Pro. F

keane2097 wrote: »

Well it's either amnesia or a differing opinion, probs amnesia I suppose.

More like a bias or prejudice I'd say.

keane2097

Pro. F wrote: »

More like a bias or prejudice I'd say.

It would be as easy to say you've been up Rooney hole as long as I can remember but I wouldn't use that to dismiss your opinion.

EDIT: Don't mind me, needed a smoke

Zico

keane2097 wrote: »

Cool that you've figured out twitter is silly without using it while the other 250 million of us toil away like morans. I wish I was as smrt as you.

Like this Moran who told civil servants to ignore concerns about a property crash in 2007 because it wasn't trending on Twitter?

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

More like a bias or prejudice I'd say.

I think RVP's is somewhat less noticable and impactful, and probably frustrating as compared to Rooney.

When RVP is misfiring, its normally him making a meal of what should be goals scored. Although based of only what are the high standards he as set for himself.

Rooney in that deeper role is more of an issue when he is off song. His control is muck and it ends up in turnover of possesion, his passing goes wayward and leads to counter attacks on us, and he is the focul point for building our attacks at times, and when hes not doing it, we arn't attacking.

At worst when RVP is in bips, he's missing a few chances, embodied by the miss against Fulham and Arsenal and the CL game last season, where in a week if he scored three chances he should have, it would have been an entirely different outlook, and pressure wouldn't have heaped on Moyes so heavily and quickly.

In fairness I was pretty critical of RVP d

bangkok

in other Utd news..... Rob Swire has retired

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

in other Utd news..... Rob Swire has retired

First one to bring it up on the thread.

You really are in the know.

TheDoc

Zico wrote: »

Like this Moran who told civil servants to ignore concerns about a property crash in 2007 because it wasn't trending on Twitter?

That's a joke right?

beno619

Pro. F wrote: »

It's funny how quickly you all forget RVP's poor play and Rooney's good play.

In all fairness thats not what were discussing, Rooney's control/first touch during his best periods at the club would still be behind RVP's, once upon a time it was excellent though.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

I think RVP's is somewhat less noticable and impactful, and probably frustrating as compared to Rooney.

When RVP is misfiring, its normally him making a meal of what should be goals scored. Although based of only what are the high standards he as set for himself.

Rooney in that deeper role is more of an issue when he is off song. His control is muck and it ends up in turnover of possesion, his passing goes wayward and leads to counter attacks on us, and he is the focul point for building our attacks at times, and when hes not doing it, we arn't attacking.

At worst when RVP is in bips, he's missing a few chances, embodied by the miss against Fulham and Arsenal and the CL game last season, where in a week if he scored three chances he should have, it would have been an entirely different outlook, and pressure wouldn't have heaped on Moyes so heavily and quickly.

In fairness I was pretty critical of RVP d

RVP was dire for the majority of last season as poor as Rooney was in Fergie's last year.

keane2097

Zico wrote: »

Like this Moran who told civil servants to ignore concerns about a property crash in 2007 because it wasn't trending on Twitter?

That's superb!

Pro. F

keane2097 wrote: »

It would be as easy to say you've been up Rooney hole as long as I can remember but I wouldn't use that to dismiss your opinion.

I think it can be justified to doubt the basis of someone's opinion if it seems crazy to you.

I have been up Rooney's hole for a long time. I've been right to be, he's a fantastic player. As is RVP. The only reason I've been talking up Rooney much more often is because he gets ridiculous abuse which RVP doesn't.

When people say things I don't agree with (like RVP has better control and passing than Rooney), then I just see it as a difference of opinion. I might argue it, but I would agree with your idea that difference's of opinion just happen. But when people say mad stuff like RVP's control and passing is miles better than Rooney's, or that Rooney's are bad, then I doubt their judgement. Since Rooney has never come across as a likeable character and since RVP has such an attractive style of play (with his arrow-like shots from all angles) then I think it's reasonable of me to suspect that lots of people watch games with incorrect preconceptions about the two players.

keane2097 wrote: »

EDIT: Don't mind me, needed a smoke

Ah it's only right that I get back what I dish out. No offence taken at all.

Lord TSC

beno619 wrote: »

RVP was dire for the majority of last season as poor as Rooney was in Fergie's last year.

Was he? He certainly missed time due to injury, but despite this nearly got as many goals as Rooney did. RVP, as an out and out striker, needs support from outfield, and if he was "dire", it was mainly down to the fact he didn't have the support system in place needed to score goals....and still managed to score plenty anyway.

Pro. F

beno619 wrote: »

In all fairness thats not what were discussing, Rooney's control/first touch during his best periods at the club would still be behind RVP's, once upon a time it was excellent though.

I should have worded that better. I mean people forget their good and bad play in each game, not the periods of good and bad form over longer periods. Although some people do forget those as well.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

I think RVP's is somewhat less noticable and impactful, and probably frustrating as compared to Rooney.

When RVP is misfiring, its normally him making a meal of what should be goals scored. Although based of only what are the high standards he as set for himself.

Rooney in that deeper role is more of an issue when he is off song. His control is muck and it ends up in turnover of possesion, his passing goes wayward and leads to counter attacks on us, and he is the focul point for building our attacks at times, and when hes not doing it, we arn't attacking.

At worst when RVP is in bips, he's missing a few chances, embodied by the miss against Fulham and Arsenal and the CL game last season, where in a week if he scored three chances he should have, it would have been an entirely different outlook, and pressure wouldn't have heaped on Moyes so heavily and quickly.

In fairness I was pretty critical of RVP d

I agree with that I think. Either one of them playing in the number 10 and struggling is going to stand out more, and look worse, then at CF.

Zico

TheDoc wrote: »

That's a joke right?

That's Derek Moran and the joke is that he's being promoted to general secretary of the Dep. of Finance.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/new-finance-chief-told-official-to-disregard-property-crash-fears-1.1854609

Blah blah blah Man Utd related gossip etc. blah blah blah

Move along there's nothing off topic to see here.

Kylo Ren

bangkok wrote: »

in other Utd news..... Rob Swire has retired

He will be missed in real life and in Football Manager.

keane2097

Pro. F wrote: »

I think it can be justified to doubt the basis of someone's opinion if it seems crazy to you.

I have been up Rooney's hole for a long time. I've been right to be, he's a fantastic player. As is RVP. The only reason I've been talking up Rooney much more often is because he gets ridiculous abuse which RVP doesn't.

When people say things I don't agree with (like RVP has better control and passing than Rooney), then I just see it as a difference of opinion. I might argue it, but I would agree with your idea that difference's of opinion just happen. But when people say mad stuff like RVP's control and passing is miles better than Rooney's, or that Rooney's are bad, then I doubt their judgement. Since Rooney has never come across as a likeable character and since RVP has such an attractive style of play (with his arrow-like shots from all angles) then I think it's reasonable of me to suspect that lots of people watch games with incorrect preconceptions about the two players.

Ah it's only right that I get back what I dish out. No offence taken at all.

I thought I'd phrased my post somewhat poorly after. When I said "comfortably" I meant that I wouldn't have to think hard about it, rather than there's a large gap between them.

Rayne Wooney

Rooney doesn't play up front though and his control and touch for a number 10 is way below par

Son Of A Vidic

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

So what do we reckon lads, was this the worst United home shirt of the last two decades or so?

Yes!

beakerjoe

I hated the teacloth shirt from 2 years ago.

beno619

Lord TSC wrote: »

Was he? He certainly missed time due to injury, but despite this nearly got as many goals as Rooney did. RVP, as an out and out striker, needs support from outfield, and if he was "dire", it was mainly down to the fact he didn't have the support system in place needed to score goals....and still managed to score plenty anyway.

I think he was behind Rooney and Welbeck in terms of performance levels, he was really poor,didn't contribute to general play couldn't hold up the ball, lots of winging and lashing out at the opposition in frustration. Goals he scored cover up just how poor he was.

Son Of A Vidic

beakerjoe wrote: »

I hated the teacloth shirt from 2 years ago.

That tartan design was rank altogether alright.

Zico

beno619 wrote: »

didn't contribute to general play couldn't hold up the ball, lots of winging and lashing out at the opposition in frustration. Goals he scored cover up just how poor he was.

That sums up Rooney in the last 4 years.

brinty

beno619 wrote: »

I think he was behind Rooney and Welbeck in terms of performance levels, he was really poor,didn't contribute to general play couldn't hold up the ball, lots of winging and lashing out at the opposition in frustration. Goals he scored cover up just how poor he was.

What a pile of my a**e..

Moyes treatment of him last season was a joke.

Fcuked up his whole season by not learning from how Fergie managed him and got a title winning season and player of the year out of him

Moyes ran the hell out of him, didn't allow for the personal training which Fergie did, catered to what Rooney wanted (my thoughts on the "rooney subject are well known) rather than the guy who ensured a league title the season before..

Subsequently he got injured and battled all season for form and was frustrated by the whole malaise which affected the club.

He wasn't the only one who threw a strop either. Did rooney not have a strop until he got his bumper new contract??

This idea Rooney was better than him last season is ridicolus

His "goals" meant we got more points than we might have won without him.

adox

bucketybuck wrote: »

Twitter updates are about as relevant as scratchings on the wall of a public loo. If you want to give credence to half formed vague utterings that hint at things without ever actually saying anything directly then more power to you, but when it comes to judging Rio Ferdinand I will stick to the important things.

Wtf are you on about? It was his account. He acted the bollix.

Trying to discredited itcause you don't like twitter is bollix.

beno619

brinty wrote: »

What a pile of my a**e..

Moyes treatment of him last season was a joke.

Fcuked up his whole season by not learning from how Fergie managed him and got a title winning season and player of the year out of him

Moyes ran the hell out of him, didn't allow for the personal training which Fergie did, catered to what Rooney wanted (my thoughts on the "rooney subject are well known) rather than the guy who ensured a league title the season before..

Subsequently he got injured and battled all season for form and was frustrated by the whole malaise which affected the club.

He wasn't the only one who threw a strop either. Did rooney not have a strop until he got his bumper new contract??

This idea Rooney was better than him last season is ridicolus

His "goals" meant we got more points than we might have won without him.

I agree Moyes was a major factor,but it doesn't take away from the fact he was awful. Rooney signed his new contract around Christmas up to then he was our best player so I'm not sure what point your trying to make.

Rooney was far better, people need to separate the Rooney hate and judge him on his performances last season.

Is it illigal to criticize RVP on here ?

Zico

What about this Hummels chap then?

Maximus Alexander

beno619 wrote: »

Is it illigal to criticize RVP on here ?

It's illegal in most of the civilized world.

ElChe32

Criticize RVP?

TheDoc

Zico wrote: »

What about this Hummels chap then?

Checking the phone and saw KROOS with the assist. Woof

Nolars

Pogba some midfielder :pac:

HaveASnickers

Mitch Connor wrote: »

For a 'world class' player who sees himself as a driving force... his control is poor, his short/creative passing is poor. His attitude to fitness has been generally questionable over the years, this past summer was the first one I can remember him turning up to United looking in decent shape.

I feel he is half the player he should have been. Partly the fault of United/Fergie, partly his fault too.

Yep. I remember when Rooney first played for us. Dynamic, powerful. Then the start of this season we saw it again....and what do you know, a new contract was being looked for. We seen Rooney run, yes run past players with the ball. After Christmas that all disappeared again. Back to the same Rooney coming deep for the ball, playing Scholes type passes out to the wing...

Pro. F wrote: »

Rooney's control and passing are better than RVP's and he scores just as many goals when he's the main striker. He also does more work than RVP on the pitch. So if Rooney isn't good enough to satisfy you, you must be raging with van Persie.

Oh my. RVP is one of the best in the business at making the ball stick.

bangkok wrote: »

lots of short memories here lads, slagging off rio and vidic? Without question the best centre half pairing in the premier league era and probably Europe.

vidic is 32 and his best days are behind him, rio is 35 also best days behind him, but both absolute legends of the club. Vidic wanted to try a new league before he retired and even though clubs wanted him in England he never wanted to play for another English club. Fair play to him, moved to inter and they will have a good player on their hands. Rio the same, over 10 years service and one of the finest centre halfs ever to play for utd

So we should just disregard the time they let the club down? Do you think Fergie would allow past glories to cloud his judgement? David Beckham was a great servant but he still got thrown out.

kstand wrote: »

Vidic and Ferdinand owe the club nothing.

Well.....Utd did stand by Rio when he got banned for 8 months for missing a drugs test. So I think he owes the club something.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Rooney doesn't play up front though and his control and touch for a number 10 is way below par

Not really. He's not got as good control as the likes of Mata, but he's still got plenty, and more than enough for the number 10 role. He's got a lot better control than Gerrard and Lampard ever had, for example, how do you think they did when they used to play there? Rooney has done well when playing alongside Hernandez and Welbeck up front, his control wasn't a problem then.

HaveASnickers

Pro. F wrote: »

Not really. He's not got as good control as the likes of Mata, but he's still got plenty, and more than enough for the number 10 role. He's got a lot better control than Gerrard and Lampard ever had, for example, how do you think they did when they used to play there? Rooney has done well when playing alongside Hernandez and Welbeck up front, his control wasn't a problem then.

Lampard and Gerrard were central midfielders?

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Not really. He's not got as good control as the likes of Mata, but he's still got plenty, and more than enough for the number 10 role. He's got a lot better control than Gerrard and Lampard ever had, for example, how do you think they did when they used to play there? Rooney has done well when playing alongside Hernandez and Welbeck up front, his control wasn't a problem then.

I don't put them in the same category, Gerrard and Lampard were attacking midfielders, not the same as the position Rooney has played for us the last few seasons IMO.

It would be closer to compare him to Oscar at Chelsea than to Lampard and Gerrard back then, Oscar is the only example I can think of at the moment who I've watched regularly enough, but Rooney loses the ball a lot more often than him as well

redbaron_99

HaveASnickers wrote: »

Lampard and Gerrard were central midfielders?

I like the way you talk of gerrard in the past tense.