Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't put them in the same category, Gerrard and Lampard were attacking midfielders, not the same as the position Rooney has played for us the last few seasons IMO.

It would be closer to compare him to Oscar at Chelsea than to Lampard and Gerrard back then, Oscar is the only example I can think of at the moment who I've watched regularly enough, but Rooney loses the ball a lot more often than him as well

Both Gerrard and Lampard have played just behind a CF and in front of two CMs for significant periods in their careers. Describing that as a different position is false.

Donnielighto

HaveASnickers wrote: »

So we should just disregard the time they let the club down? Do you think Fergie would allow past glories to cloud his judgement? David Beckham was a great servant but he still got thrown out.

What did Beckham do to deserve being shown the door? I think it was a big mistake selling him. Hugely professional and seems like a decent bloke. VEry hard worker and looked after himself very well.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Both Gerrard and Lampard have played just behind a CF and in front of two CMs for significant periods in their careers. Describing that as a different position is false.

So if I asked a Liverpool fan if Gerrard played as an attacking midfielder or a number 10, they'd say he was a number 10?

Donnielighto

Pro. F wrote: »

Both Gerrard and Lampard have played just behind a CF and in front of two CMs for significant periods in their careers. Describing that as a different position is false.

Similar positions alright but I think that rooney has played a starting position a little more advanced, tbh for me it isn't his touch really but his decision making, he can take touches he shouldn't really be trying when he's further out than CF.


Rooney was a supremely talented player when he arrived but his liberal positioning by Fergie meant he didnt develop as he should have. Not tactically disciplined enough imo to stay up top and be an outlet when needed. IF we had a better midfield he could have stayed there but frustration is not enough to ignore instruction (if he got it which i think he did)

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

So if I asked a Liverpool fan if Gerrard played as an attacking midfielder or a number 10, they'd say he was a number 10?

I wouldn't be pushed what any random Liverpool fan might say to you. Just like all fan bases, most of them won't have a clue what they're talking about.

Attacking midfielder and number 10 in this context are just different names for the same thing - the player behind the CF and in front of the CMs.

shadowcomplex

Will be disappointed if Sanchez has chosen Arsenal but Cuadrado is just as good and can play the attacking full back as well


If 3-4-3 is indeed the formation we are going for then whats everyones opionion of this

---

De Gea

---

---

Vermaelen

---

Hummels

---

Evans

---

Cuadrado

---

Herrera

---

Vidal

---

Shaw---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

Rvp

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sReq | uTeK

IrishIrish wrote: »

Di Maria for me. Not much in it ages wise or ability wise but Di Maria offers a lot more defensively and can play in more of a midfield role where as Sanchez is a pure attacker. Di Maria also a lot more physical which might make it easier for him in premier league. Would have loved him before he went to Madrid.

Di Maria...physical... you on crack? He's a walking skeleton

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

I wouldn't be pushed what any random Liverpool fan might say to you. Just like all fan bases, most of them won't have a clue what they're talking about.

Attacking midfielder and number 10 in this context are just different names for the same thing - the player behind the CF and in front of the CMs.

Is Iniesta a number 10 in your book?

Vic Vinegar

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Will be disappointed if Sanchez has chosen Arsenal but Cuadrado is just as good and can play the attacking full back as well


If 3-4-3 is indeed the formation we are going for then whats everyones opionion of this

---

De Gea

---

---

Vermaelen

---

Hummels

---

Evans

---

Cuadrado

---

Herrera

---

Vidal

---

Shaw---

---

Mata

---

---

Rooney

---

Rvp

---

We are going to be playing 433 though.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Is Iniesta a number 10 in your book?

He has played a few positions, out wide, 10 and central midfield. I do think 10 is his best position. Why do you ask?

bucketybuck

HaveASnickers wrote: »

We seen Rooney run, yes run past players with the ball.

Cite?

Deiseboy01

Pro. F wrote: »

Both Gerrard and Lampard have played just behind a CF and in front of two CMs for significant periods in their careers. Describing that as a different position is false.

Would you describe Lampard as a no. 10?

DARK-KNIGHT

So paul pogba discuss please

shadowcomplex

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Would you describe Lampard as a no. 10?

Lampard played behind Drogba during Jose's first stint at Chelsea particularly in the champions league, with Thiago and makelele ancoring midfield, Lampard and gerard aren't number 10s in the traditional sense but they made up for it by the amount of goals they scored ,Gerards best season when they almost won the title was behind torres a few years back, one things for sure they were better as number 10s than as central midfielders , lampard and gerrard just cant do what pirlo, xavi Alonso, xavi hernandez or paul scholes do or have done

IrishIrish

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Di Maria...physical... you on crack? He's a walking skeleton

He's a lot more physical than Sanchez. Just like I said. Almost 5 inches taller, a stone heavier and does a lot more physical work than Sanchez on the pitch as he tracks back a lot more as a winger.

If you want to continue to pretend I said something else then go ahead.

Zico

Beckham would have ended up like Lampard and Gerrard if he'd began his career at another club. Not good enough to be part a two man central midfield but great at spraying spectacular 60 yards balls, when a short pass is the better option, and he'd probably have had a similar goal return blasting shots from outside the box every chance he got.

adox

Ah Beckhams time was up at Utd. It was a circus at that stage. Fergie got that one right IMO.

Deiseboy01

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Lampard played behind Drogba during Jose's first stint at Chelsea particularly in the champions league, with Thiago and makelele ancoring midfield, Lampard and gerard aren't number 10s in the traditional sense but they made up for it by the amount of goals they scored ,Gerards best season when they almost won the title was behind torres a few years back, one things for sure they were better as number 10s than as central midfielders , lampard and gerrard just cant do what pirlo, xavi Alonso, xavi hernandez or paul scholes do or have done

I think you just said it yourself, not traditional no. tens, I would never classify Lampard as a ten.

DARK-KNIGHT

adox wrote: »

Ah Beckhams time was up at Utd. It was a circus at that stage. Fergie got that one right IMO.

Fully agree

shadowcomplex

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

I think you just said it yourself, not traditional no. tens, I would never classify Lampard as a ten.

Lampard and Gerrard in their prime wouldn't be able to compete against a current Pirlo in central midfield despite his ripe old age of 35 , they just don't have that intelligence, guile whatever the fcuk you want to call it

Royal Irish

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

We are going to be playing 433 though.

Louis tell you this himself?

mcratsix

HaveASnickers wrote: »

Sick of these type of posts about Ashley Young.

120k a week apparantly. Nani (for instance) was on 90k a week on his old deal and was looking for a bump up. Young has contributed far more to Utd the last couple of seasons than Nani. I don't care if he was injured, if we're complaining about wages than injury doesn't matter.

He has given his all, scored a few goals, won a few vital penalties (we were struggling to break down Palace at home until he won the peno) and he's better than Kagawa on the left (imo).

Then you don't know what clauses are in his contract. It could be a straight 120k a week where as Nani (for instance) apparantly was looking for 30k appearance fee as well.

30-40k difference in wages a week doesn't bother me at all.

He's won penalties from dives mostly. For me, him and nani are the biggest waste of a bench space ever. I'd honestly rather have wingers like Jarvis at West Ham, at least they get crosses in.

mcratsix

Royal Irish wrote: »

Louis tell you this himself?

If you go on the FIFA YouTube channel, there's an interview with LVG where he says explicitly, "I play 433. That's my formation."

Vic Vinegar

Royal Irish wrote: »

Louis tell you this himself?

Yeah he did. He came to me in a dream as Jim Morrison, there was also a weird naked Indian guy.

Zico

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Yeah he did. He came to me in a dream as Jim Morrison, there was also a weird naked Indian guy.

Well at least that's a more credible source than Twitter.:)

Deiseboy01

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Lampard and Gerrard in their prime wouldn't be able to compete against a current Pirlo in central midfield despite his ripe old age of 35 , they just don't have that intelligence, guile whatever the fcuk you want to call it

Don't think anyone is saying they would.

Not all midfield players are Pirlo either, takes all sorts.

umop.episdn

Probably nothing really, but we live in hope

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/arsenals-sanchez-deal-could-hijacked-uniteds-move-vidal-113037133.html

user2011

mcratsix wrote: »

If you go on the FIFA YouTube channel, there's an interview with LVG where he says explicitly, "I play 433. That's my formation."

WC, 5-3-2. Which I discovered is not his only formation. Lol. He finds ways to win that is it.

I love that.

Pro. F

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Would you describe Lampard as a no. 10?

It's by far his best position and he was very good when he used to play there. Do you disagree with either of those statements?

Donnielighto

Pro. F wrote: »

It's by far his best position and he was very good when he used to play there. Do you disagree with either of those statements?

I think there us a difference between what you consider a number 10 and some of the other posters . lampard would have been more involved in midfield than what some consider 10s normally would. Lamps was very effective at operating between the line but it seems many consider 10s to be pretty free in the defensive department nearly operating as shadow strikers with good passing range. Gerrard in that role excelled but I think lamps was more suited to an advanced midfielder role. The locations are the same but the role is different.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

He has played a few positions, out wide, 10 and central midfield. I do think 10 is his best position. Why do you ask?

It looks like there is a few different interpretations of that position(s)

I don't think the role Gerrard played in 08/09 could be compared to Mata in his first season at Chelsea for example

Cantona's Collars

user2011 wrote: »

WC, 5-3-2. Which I discovered is not his only formation. Lol. He finds ways to win that is it.

I love that.

But how many times has he said "we'll try"?

redbaron_99

We are not signing a world class midfielder in the next seven days.

Vic Vinegar

redbaron_99 wrote: »

We are not signing a world class midfielder in the next seven days.

Dammit, I was hoping Woodward would finally get the finger out.

Donnielighto

redbaron_99 wrote: »

We are not signing a world class midfielder in the next seven days.

And you are not future guy the cat mod.

Pro. F

Donnielighto wrote: »

I think there us a difference between what you consider a number 10 and some of the other posters . lampard would have been more involved in midfield than what some consider 10s normally would. Lamps was very effective at operating between the line but it seems many consider 10s to be pretty free in the defensive department nearly operating as shadow strikers with good passing range. Gerrard in that role excelled but I think lamps was more suited to an advanced midfielder role. The locations are the same but the role is different.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It looks like there is a few different interpretations of that position(s)

I don't think the role Gerrard played in 08/09 could be compared to Mata in his first season at Chelsea for example

You are both blurring together style of player with position I think. Crouch and Robbie Keane are both centre forwards, they just have different styles for how they go about it.

Lampard and Gerrard were not involved more in the midfield when they played 10. They didn't defend any deeper, nor drop any deeper when in possession. They both got in the box just as much as the more skilful type of 10s.

Shadow striker, 10, ACM, attacking midfielder - they're all just different names for the same position. They describe the player who plays in front of the CMs and behind the CF. They sniff around the box for goals, but also drop deep at times to get on the ball. Different players with different skills might approach the job in their own ways (preferring to dribble vs first time passing for example), but the tactical requirements of creating, feeding the wingers and CF, supporting the CF, scoring goals and defending in front of the midfield four are the same for everybody who plays the position.

If yis want to quibble about me saying that Lampard and Gerrard played as number 10s, then just change it for "the player behind the CF". Gerrard and Lampard's control was good enough when they played as "the player behind the CF", and they were very good in that position. Rooney's control is far superior to both of them so he is not lacking when he's played as the "the player behind the CF". You see? It makes no difference to the statement.

Cantona's Collars

TNC_Bundesliga
Follow

According to @SZ, Toni Kroos' move to Real Madrid is complete with the finer details being sorted after the World Cup.

Adamocovic

So Iniesta praised VG (as he would because of their history), and the papers saying he'll "follow VG to United".
Seems like we will be linked with every player before this window is over ha

Deiseboy01

Donnielighto wrote: »

I think there us a difference between what you consider a number 10 and some of the other posters . lampard would have been more involved in midfield than what some consider 10s normally would. Lamps was very effective at operating between the line but it seems many consider 10s to be pretty free in the defensive department nearly operating as shadow strikers with good passing range. Gerrard in that role excelled but I think lamps was more suited to an advanced midfielder role. The locations are the same but the role is different.

This

bucketybuck

mcratsix wrote: »

He's won penalties from dives mostly. For me, him and nani are the biggest waste of a bench space ever. I'd honestly rather have wingers like Jarvis at West Ham, at least they get crosses in.

You just brought the Nani debate to a whole new low.

MagicIRL

Cuadrado looked very good for Colombia last night. Shame he was kicked up the park, but his pace is simply fantastic.

Lucas Hood

Metro has us making a 65m bid for James Rodriguez.

alchemist33

Is Cuadrado being seriously linked with us, or is it just like all of the Dutch squad?

DARK-KNIGHT

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Metro has us making a 65m bid for James Rodriguez.

he is a class player heres hoping

Zico

MagicIRL wrote: »

Cuadrado looked very good for Colombia last night. Shame he was kicked up the park, but his pace is simply fantastic.

Huh?

I thought he was muck last night, gave the ball away every time he got it and was in danger of being sent off.

He's been great in the tournament up til last night but Brazil roughed him up and he lost it.

Maximus Alexander

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Metro has us making a 65m bid for James Rodriguez.

MagicIRL

Zico wrote: »

Huh?

I thought he was muck last night, gave the ball away every time he got it and was in danger of being sent off.

He's been great in the tournament up til last night but Brazil roughed him up and he lost it.

Thought he player very well in that minefield that was Brazil's midfield. Bet his man with ease on a number of occasions and showed some nice skill on the ball. Granted having your ankles snapped for 90mins will take it's toll on any players performance.

royster999

Evra was poor yesterday again. Pathetic attempts at tracking back.
Looks like a player with no hunger anymore.

Thankfully Shaw will be first choice from hereon out.

Donnielighto

Pro. F wrote: »

You are both blurring together style of player with position I think. Crouch and Robbie Keane are both centre forwards, they just have different styles for how they go about it.

Lampard and Gerrard were not involved more in the midfield when they played 10. They didn't defend any deeper, nor drop any deeper when in possession. They both got in the box just as much as the more skilful type of 10s.

Shadow striker, 10, ACM, attacking midfielder - they're all just different names for the same position. They describe the player who plays in front of the CMs and behind the CF. They sniff around the box for goals, but also drop deep at times to get on the ball. Different players with different skills might approach the job in their own ways (preferring to dribble vs first time passing for example), but the tactical requirements of creating, feeding the wingers and CF, supporting the CF, scoring goals and defending in front of the midfield four are the same for everybody who plays the position.

If yis want to quibble about me saying that Lampard and Gerrard played as number 10s, then just change it for "the player behind the CF". Gerrard and Lampard's control was good enough when they played as "the player behind the CF", and they were very good in that position. Rooney's control is far superior to both of them so he is not lacking when he's played as the "the player behind the CF". You see? It makes no difference to the statement.

you're right re positions vs style (which i acknowledged in my last post tbf)

but the requirement for touch is informed by how they play the position too, try play it differently and you'll need more of this and less of that.

RGDATA!

MagicIRL wrote: »

Cuadrado looked very good for Colombia last night. Shame he was kicked up the park, but his pace is simply fantastic.

I didn't think Cuardado had a good game at all last night. He was a lot better and caught the eye in earlier games but was wasteful last night - reminded me a bit of N*ni on a bad day.