Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

MagicIRL

TheDoc wrote: »

Not having that

The same line was being used as a defence for Nani not three weeks ago in how he was poisonous for Portugal. Can't have it both ways.

He had a serious injury and was a WC doubt, and has ended up being excellent throughout.

Don't mention the N word, for Christ's sake.

Billy86

SSN saying Juve have made an approach for Evra. Happy to have him help bleed Shaw in if he stays, but if this means anything about Vidal... COME ON!!!

bangkok

Billy86 wrote: »

SSN saying Juve have made an approach for Evra. Happy to have him help bleed Shaw in if he stays, but if this means anything about Vidal... COME ON!!!

said that a while ago when fergie and conte were having the meeting it was to do with evra

Spazdarn

Aren't we a bit light at left back then?

bangkok

MagicIRL wrote: »

At the last WC he was 4 years younger. I maintain he's a great player, but his WC performance this time around has been boosted by his lack of gametime at Madrid this season.

that is a ridiculous statement, how is he not playing a boost? if that's the case how come kagawa isn't class when he plays or nani?

keane2097

MagicIRL wrote: »

He has been rested whether his feet have been in casts or not.

First time I've ever heard of a player being better immediately after returning from a serious knee injury in any sport at any level.

MagicIRL

bangkok wrote: »

that is a ridiculous statement, how is he not playing a boost? if that's the case how come kagawa isn't class when he plays or nani?

Don't even try and talk about ridiculous statements.



I hold my hands up lads, I'm talking out my hoop.

keane2097

MagicIRL wrote: »

I hold my hands up lads, I'm talking out my hoop.

That almost never happens!

Billy86

cdb wrote: »

:-)

Huh, which word?

It would leave us too thin at LB where I would still prefer a more established player than Shaw short term (as much as I doing the signing, long term) but if Evra helps facilitate a Vidal move then Blind or a 5-10mn type signing will more than suffice in the scheme of things.

beno619

Khedira is just an athletic version of Cleverley.

keane2097

beno619 wrote: »

Khedira is just an athletic version of Cleverley.

Billy86

beno619 wrote: »

Khedira is just an athletic version of Cleverley.

Yeah, nothing at all special there. Not a bad player and can be a good fit in certain midfield but he is significantly less of a game changer than just about everyone in Germany's midfield, starting or otherwise.

Danye

beno619 wrote: »

Khedira is just an athletic version of Cleverley.

Hopefully that's your attempt at a joke?

Danye

In regards to Kroos..

I'm one of his biggest fans for quite sometime now and I'd love to see him in a United shirt BUT id rather we address our immediate problem positions first before we would think of going after him.

bangkok

Danye wrote: »

In regards to Kroos..

I'm one of his biggest fans for quite sometime now and I'd love to see him in a United shirt BUT id rather we address our immediate problem positions first before we would think of going after him.

what positions might they be? he is actually the perfect player for Utd

Maximus Alexander

Danye wrote: »

In regards to Kroos..

I'm one of his biggest fans for quite sometime now and I'd love to see him in a United shirt BUT id rather we address our immediate problem positions first before we would think of going after him.

Kroos is just an athletic version of Djemba Djemba.

Spazdarn

Is it greedy to want both Vidal and Kroos?!!

Mikeyt086

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

I did a quick mock-up of how I think our kits would look if we go with Adidas or Warrior.

Kroos would look good in that adidas mock up United shirt!

brinty

bangkok wrote: »

what positions might they be? he is actually the perfect player for Utd

I never thought i'd see the day i'd say this but Bangkok is right..
MagicIRL will kill me for that one

Midfield is where we need to strenghten, CB thereafter..

Kroos and or vidal and or Strootman are players we need to improve the team

if Hummels can be bought by all means get it done

but we need one of those three signed this window is a bigger priority

Dohnny Jepp

bangkok wrote: »

what positions might they be? he is actually the perfect player for Utd

He isn't. He kicked up a fuss in Munich because he was being played too deep. He can play play both a number 10 role and a deeper playmaking role (won't call it defensive midfield because he doesn't actually defend) but he only wants to play the number 10 role and we have a lot of players for that position already. Phenomenal player though.

Vidal / Strootman would be the perfect midfielder for us. Both can play box to box or a holding defensive role. Vidal is especially talented although shorter than Strootman. Deceptively strong and quick. Great range of passing, great positioning and loves to play hard. Vidal is a top player with and without the ball.

In regards to Hummels, he'd be a great buy, lots and lots of talent. Great mind for the game and all the physical traits you'd hope for as well as being very confident on the ball. I watch a lot of the bundesliga and specifically Dortmund. Hummels actually had a very very poor season, the heel injury should be no excuse because he was poor before it and poor after it. It was only in the final 5th of the season that he started playing well. There may be some reasons for his significant drop in standards from the previous year, because he looks to be back at his best in the WC. I'd go so far to say Germany's most important player.

akelly02

if Carrick or Cleverley are still in our midfield this year we can forget about winning anything IMO.

Carrick does nothing, Mr anonymous, in fact i think he hides during games.Doesnt attack well, nor defend well.

Cleverley just cant cut it at this level, i do think he tries though.

We definately need another top class Midfielder to compliment Herrera, Vidal being widely regarded as first choice

beno619

keane2097 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on what makes him so superior ?

He's not a patch on his German teammates and looks really out of place in the Madrid side. He's very average and I was seriously worried by romours of £35M bids being made on deadline day last summer.

cdb

Billy86 wrote: »

Huh, which word?

It would leave us too thin at LB where I would still prefer a more established player than Shaw short term (as much as I doing the signing, long term) but if Evra helps facilitate a Vidal move then Blind or a 5-10mn type signing will more than suffice in the scheme of things.

Bleed in / Bed in - never mind, it was a fairly poor attempt at humour

If Evra leaving helps the Vidal deal then by all means - and if Nani can be included all the better. Evra's experience will be missed but his performances have been on the decline for so long now this window is probably the last chance to recoup some sort of a transfer fee. Plenty of time to bring in backup.

keane2097

beno619 wrote: »

Can you elaborate on what makes him so superior ?

He's not a patch on his German teammates and looks really out of place in the Madrid side. He's very average and I was seriously worried by romours of £35M bids being made on deadline day last summer.

What's the point? I'll list the things I think he's great at so you can tell me you think he's bad at them, let's not bother.

You think he's a bit more athletic than TCLEV23, I coooooouldn't care less tbh.

beno619

keane2097 wrote: »

What's the point? I'll list the things I think he's great at so you can tell me you think he's bad at them, let's not bother.

You think he's a bit more athletic than TCLEV23, I coooooouldn't care less tbh.

After posting a condescending gif you could at least explain why you believe my post is so ridiculous.

Besides being taller so naturally more physical and faster I don't see what more he has in the locker in comparison to cleverley, I think there both quite limited.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

After posting a condescending gif you could at least explain why you believe my post is so ridiculous.

Besides being taller so naturally more physical and faster I don't see what more he has in the locker in comparison to cleverley, I think there both quite limited.

he is technically superior in every single department

Backstreet Moyes

beno619 wrote: »

After posting a condescending gif you could at least explain why you believe my post is so ridiculous.

Besides being taller so naturally more physical and faster I don't see what more he has in the locker in comparison to cleverley, I think there both quite limited.

He can run with the ball, he can pass it forward, he can assist and he can score.

Billy86

akelly02 wrote: »

if Carrick or Cleverley are still in our midfield this year we can forget about winning anything IMO.

Carrick does nothing, Mr anonymous, in fact i think he hides during games.Doesnt attack well, nor defend well.

Cleverley just cant cut it at this level, i do think he tries though.

We definately need another top class Midfielder to compliment Herrera, Vidal being widely regarded as first choice

Crazy statement. Carrick is not good covering a lot of round which is why he struggled quite badly last season with Moyes telling the backline to say deep, the attacking players to stay high, and expecting 2/3 CMs to cover the other sixty percent of the pitch. But put him in a tighter system, especially a 3 man midfield, covering the space in front of the backline and he is very effective, and can still be very useful this season while we look to strengthen areas of bigger need (like a combative midfielders along the lines of Vidal, and a CB). There is a reason the season before Moyes came about he was voted the best CM in the league, and it amazes me how quickly people seem to (want to?) forget this. Carrick is far from spectacular with the ball, but he is very efficient and almost never puts us in a sticky situation, while his positioning and reading of the game is top notch and allows him to consistently slow down opposition attacks and limit passing lanes when we have committed players forward.

I reckon is it similar to why a lot of people hated Ferdinand when we were struggling for a while years back (and why some crazy eejits preferred Terry and even Carragher to him for a bit), this odd perception that last ditch tackles and "getting stuck in" are far mote important factors than they actually are.

If we stumble upon some quality replacement for him then sure yeah, we might as well go in and see what happens, but he is far, far from a liability. Vidal/Strootman/etc are not Carrick replacements though, very different players.

TheDoc

Anytime I see that Jennifer Lawrence gif I lose total train of thought on what the conversation/topic is

beno619

Nuts102 wrote: »

He can run with the ball, he can pass it forward, he can assist and he can score.

I'd argue so can Cleverley unless were just judging him on last season.

Nobody mentioned his name until Germany met an awful Brazil side last in night.

Backstreet Moyes

beno619 wrote: »

I'd argue so can Cleverley unless were just judging him on last season.

Nobody mentioned his name until Germany met an awful Brazil side last in night.

No i am judging him on the last few seasons. He has no vision he runs to receive the ball turns backwards and then runs away from the play.

He can do none of those things and if you think nobody talked about Khedeira until last night you must have been in a cave.

Spazdarn

Billy86 wrote: »

Crazy statement. Carrick is not good covering a lot of round which is why he struggled quite badly last season with Moyes telling the backline to say deep, the attacking players to stay high, and expecting 2/3 CMs to cover the other sixty percent of the pitch. But put him in a tighter system, especially a 3 man midfield, covering the space in front of the backline and he is very effective, and can still be very useful this season while we look to strengthen areas of bigger need (like a combative midfielders along the lines of Vidal, and a CB). There is a reason the season before Moyes came about he was voted the best CM in the league, and it amazes me how quickly people seem to (want to?) forget this. Carrick is far from spectacular with the ball, but he is very efficient and almost never puts us in a sticky situation, while his positioning and reading of the game is top notch and allows him to consistently slow down opposition attacks and limit passing lanes when we have committed players forward.

I reckon is it similar to why a lot of people hated Ferdinand when we were struggling for a while years back (and why some crazy eejits preferred Terry and even Carragher to him for a bit), this odd perception that last ditch tackles and "getting stuck in" are far mote important factors than they actually are.

If we stumble upon some quality replacement for him then sure yeah, we might as well go in and see what happens, but he is far, far from a liability. Vidal/Strootman/etc are not Carrick replacements though, very different players.

Carrick has a lot of faults, I don't rate him, but his biggest fault is his inability to receive the ball, turn and bring it forward, he's uncomfortable when put under any pressure and that's why he passes sideways and backwards.

I'll be delighted when he's gone to be honest.

Crimson King

TheDoc wrote: »

Anytime I see that Jennifer Lawrence gif I lose total train of thought on what the conversation/topic is

Shows you I have finally turned into my dad when I don't recognise pop icons. I thought that was Taylor Swift :P

Billy86

cdb wrote: »

Bleed in / Bed in - never mind, it was a fairly poor attempt at humour

If Evra leaving helps the Vidal deal then by all means - and if Nani can be included all the better. Evra's experience will be missed but his performances have been on the decline for so long now this window is probably the last chance to recoup some sort of a transfer fee. Plenty of time to bring in backup.

A right, got ya now!

Funny enough one of the biggest upsides of having Evra and Shaw (if we do keep both) in my mind is actually the regression in Evras play for so long, odd as that might sound, at least in terms of how Shaw is treated. I just have a funny feeling if Shaw struggles and Evra is not here there will be a lot of revisionism about Evra over the least 3 years or so to further put Shaw down. Because United fans, and the media, have a tendency to be VERY harsh with our defenders and younger players (not named Phil "free pass" Jones ). With Evra still around Saw we can at least point to Pat and say "hey, at least he is better, and far younger, than that fella who as been here for years." Twisted logic, but there you go.

But if we can get Vidal then lob Evra in by all means! A solid but unspectacular guy for a low enough fee between about 24 and 29 years of age to compete with Shaw for a few seasons will do fine.

Maximus Alexander

Crimson King wrote: »

Shows you I have finally turned into my dad when I don't recognise pop icons. I thought that was Taylor Swift :P

Shame on you.

Spazdarn

I don't really see the Evra to Juve thing having any affect on getting Vidal..

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

I'd argue so can Cleverley unless were just judging him on last season.

Nobody mentioned his name until Germany met an awful Brazil side last in night.

That's rubbish...

Khedira had a standout WC campaign alongside Schweinsteiger in South Africa, and was promptly rewarded with a big move to Real Madrid where he has formed a dynamic partnership with Alonso.

He is an excellent midfielder that can play a more discplined role holding or maraud up and down, last night was a rare example of when Khedira has a more free reign, simply because that team smelt blood and he was allowed belt past a totaly inept Brazilian midfield.

Khedira is an outstanding midfielder, and comparing him to Cleverly is the utmost of rubbish, as is to deprive him of compliment and stature in the European game.

LostBoy101

I hope Cleverly just joins Everton so we can all end this agruement.

Pro. F

Thecon21 wrote: »

How did you think Khedira got on last night? I thought he was very good, I actually think he has done quite well during this World Cup in his couple of games..

Could be a good option, reasonable price too.

Khedira is another one of these CMs who does lots of good things but is weak at the basic possession stuff that goes unnoticed. He needs to be in a three man CM and then he does a reasonable, but much over-hyped, job. There are a lot of better CMs who could be bought and probably for less money.

Spazdarn

Khedira is a very good player but if he's fee is anything more than 20m I wouldn't be interested. There are better options that offer more (Vidal)

Cleverly is nowhere near as good as Khedira, I don't know why that's even being debated.

beno619

Fair enough lads, I wouldn't be out celebrating us spending £30M on Khedira anyway.

He's average IMO but we all see the game differently I guess.

Backstreet Moyes

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Carrick has a lot of faults, I don't rate him, but his biggest fault is his inability to receive the ball, turn and bring it forward, he's uncomfortable when put under any pressure and that's why he passes sideways and backwards.

I'll be delighted when he's gone to be honest.

Amazing we signed him because of his performances for playing higher up the field. He is well able to pass the ball forward. Fergie turned him into a player who shields the back four and keeps it simple. He was poor last season but he could do a job sitting in a three man midfield beside Herrera and Kagawa imo.

rockal

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Carrick has a lot of faults, I don't rate him, but his biggest fault is his inability to receive the ball, turn and bring it forward, he's uncomfortable when put under any pressure and that's why he passes sideways and backwards.

I'll be delighted when he's gone to be honest.

I'm in total agreement. Never understood pundits high ravings about him.

TheDoc

beno619 wrote: »

Fair enough lads, I wouldn't be out celebrating us spending £30M on Khedira anyway.

He's average IMO but we all see the game differently I guess.

Redeem yourself with a Jennifer Lawrence pic

Vic Vinegar

Marcotti saying Vidal could be happening.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/video/espn-fc-tv/86/video/1936163/the-summer-transfer-window-heats-uphttp://

Spazdarn

Nuts102 wrote: »

Amazing we signed him because of his performances for playing higher up the field. He is well able to pass the ball forward. Fergie turned him into a player who shields the back four and keeps it simple. He was poor last season but he could do a job sitting in a three man midfield beside Herrera and Kagawa imo.

He could do a job that's true, but I just feel we should be looking for players who can offer more than that...

HaveASnickers

Pro. F wrote: »

Khedira is another one of these CMs who does lots of good things but is weak at the basic possession stuff that goes unnoticed. He needs to be in a three man CM and then he does a reasonable, but much over-hyped, job. There are a lot of better CMs who could be bought and probably for less money.

The days of traditional 2 man midfields are gone.

I don't think Kroos is a player we NEED. We need someone who goes box to box, and who can tackle and match up to the toures/Matic's of this world.

Kroos is someone who would help us win games, but I don't think he'd win us games if you get me.

duffman13

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I don't really see the Evra to Juve thing having any affect on getting Vidal..

Was just about to post this. A 33 yr old left back for 2 million is hardly going to be the difference maker in getting Vidal. It may build a little relationship and both teams will already have a bit of dialogue but it's the money that's going to talk!

Billy86

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Carrick has a lot of faults, I don't rate him, but his biggest fault is his inability to receive the ball, turn and bring it forward, he's uncomfortable when put under any pressure and that's why he passes sideways and backwards.

I'll be delighted when he's gone to be honest.

Actually he just plays it safe and simple under pressure or not, and yes he is too safe a good bit of the time, dont think anyone is denying that. I dont agree about him struggling under pressure, most of the time he has had the ball for several years now it has been after breaking up counter attacks from the opposition, and he does what you should do there more often than not, which is to slow it down, allow your team regain shape and composure, and make sure not to lose the ball again as are are often outnumbered or close to it (with Evra/Rafael both going forward a lot, and not always being the best tracking back this is a bigger issue again).

It is not his job to run everywhere and single handedly control games for us, his job is to do the boring work consistently to allow the others in CM to stand out and take more chances, which Cleverley/Fellaini/etc have simply not been doing for a long while now. Though yes he could play it forward more than he does, trying to play the ball forward constantly like some seem to want, in the role he has typically had the last several seasons would be suicidal, as would launching himself all over the place trying to "get stuck in" or what have you.

Again, there is a good reason why he was the best midfielder in the league in 2012/13, right before Moyes came in and decided he would see what Carricks impression of Vidal looked like.

HaveASnickers

rockal wrote: »

I'm in total agreement. Never understood pundits high ravings about him.

Last season was a shocker for him, just like many others. He was asked to play a different role. We seen him high up the pitch putting pressure on players.

Carrick is someone to sit back and keep us ticking over.

12/13 he was incredible, like Scholes tbh. I've always been a fan of Carrick. But if I was judging him on last season alone I'd think he should be shipped out.