Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

markcahill1985

Watching the game last night i actually wondered is Jordy Clasie just Tom Cleverley in disguise??

redbaron_99

I thought Juventus were the type of club that needed to sell players in order to raise the funds to buy players?

Seems they are close to signing Evra for a couple of million, Morata for 22 million, and now Juan Iturbe for 25 million.

I think this would suggest they are getting ready to sell a player for a significant amount.
Thoughts?

MagicIRL

markcahill1985 wrote: »

Watching the game last night i actually wondered is Jordy Clasie just Tom Cleverley in disguise??

Nope, Clasie passed the ball foward at least once.

Backstreet Moyes

Evans has played lb before also he can cover their. Well that's depending on if we get in a top class cb. But realistically i can see Blind coming in for a small fee.

Backstreet Moyes

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I thought Juventus were the type of club that needed to sell players in order to raise the funds to buy players?

Seems they are close to signing Evra for a couple of million, Morata for 22 million, and now Juan Iturbe for 25 million.

I think this would suggest they are getting ready to sell a player for a significant amount.
Thoughts?

It wouldn't surprise me if they are ready to cash in on Vidal for a big fee now to bring in a few players. They still have Pirlo, Pogba and Marchisio. But it wouldn't surprise me to see PSG offer 50 or 60 million for Pogba.

Quandary

I thought Jordy Clasie looked very composed when he came on last night. Lovely passer and plenty mobility. The Dutch team were a lot more fluid with him instead of De Jong.

I remember his name being mentioned here once or twice. If Anderson and Fellaini are sold, he would be a very good addition to replace them.

If we assume the Vidal transfer doesn't work out, which is very possible, I feel we still need to bring in a midfielder even if LVG is considering signing Strootman in January.

Hummels(Vermaelen cheap option), Di Maria, Clasie, Vidal

Any two from the above list along with Shaw and Herrera would have us in a very healthy position come the start of the season!

Backstreet Moyes

Realistically Fletcher, Cleverley, Anderson and i thought he would come good but watching Belgium Fellaini aren't good enough for a team looking to challenge for trophies. Can't see Carrick around much longer maybe next season is his last.

We only need a small squad next season but i would be happy slowly build our midfield. While Vidal would be a dream i can't see it happening. I would be happy with De Jong and Blind brought in this summer and with Strootman in January. Send Powell out on loan to a premiership club and hopefully he can come back competing for first team football next season. The deadwood needs to be phased out.

Starting next season with Herrera, Strootman, De Jong, Powell(i have high hopes for him) and then when back in Europe a top class signing would put us in great shape. Obviously easier said then done.

markcahill1985

Quandary wrote: »

I thought Jordy Clasie looked very composed when he came on last night. Lovely passer and plenty mobility. The Dutch team were a lot more fluid with him instead of De Jong.

I remember his name being mentioned here once or twice. If Anderson and Fellaini are sold, he would be a very good addition to replace them.

If we assume the Vidal transfer doesn't work out, which is very possible, I feel we still need to bring in a midfielder even if LVG is considering signing Strootman in January.

Hummels(Vermaelen cheap option), Di Maria, Clasie, Vidal

Any two from the above list along with Shaw and Herrera would have us in a very healthy position come the start of the season!

As I said earlier to be honest all I saw in Jordy Clasie was Tom Cleverley, would be really underwhelmed if he was signed, think we are so starved of decent midfielders over the last 6 years that we think anyone who can make 4 or 5 successful passes would do in our midfield.

Giggsy11

Going by what we saw from Netherlands, our defense should improve significantly next season.

Netherlands defense was average and still they conceded only 3 goals in group stages with teams like Spain and Chile. 2 of those 3 goals were controversial penalties.
They conceded only 1 goal in KOs and that's fantastic as they played 120 mins against Costa Rica and Argentina.

All this with average defense and also without De Jong their best DM for 2 games.

Cantona's Collars

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Seems Suarez is going for £75 Million. A bit of a windfall for Liverpool.

But was just thinking, if United sign the kit deal with Adidas for the rumored amount, it would be like selling a Suarez each year, for the next ten years.

#bigclub

It's Euros not £75 million sterling.

Dr.Winston O'Boogie

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Going by what we saw from Netherlands, our defense should improve significantly next season.

Netherlands defense was average and still they conceded only 3 goals in group stages with teams like Spain and Chile. 2 of those 3 goals were controversial penalties.
They conceded only 1 goal in KOs and that's fantastic as they played 120 mins against Costa Rica and Argentina.

All this with average defense and also without De Jong their best DM for 2 games.

They also didn't score a goal in both those 120 minutes. There are two ways of looking at this.

Backstreet Moyes

niallo24 wrote: »

They also didn't score a goal in both those 120 minutes. There are two ways of looking at this.

In fairness the only quality they have is Robben who was doubled up on and RVP who looks unfit. Sneijder is terrible and they had little or no creativity from midfield.

Different story when you have Rooney, Mata, Kagawa, Hernandez, Janjuaz and a fit RVP.

Giggsy11

niallo24 wrote: »

They also didn't score a goal in both those 120 minutes. There are two ways of looking at this.

And still scored the second most goals in the world cup? IIRC they were at the top during Group stages.

Cantona's Collars

niallo24 wrote: »

They also didn't score a goal in both those 120 minutes. There are two ways of looking at this.

Even the most die - hard Dutch fan would admit the team is average.It was an achievement in itself getting them to the semis.

Headshot

zerks wrote: »

Even the most die - hard Dutch fan would admit the team is average.It was an achievement in itself getting them to the semis.

I dont think even expected to get out of the group stages, let alone win it. Its not the best squad around tbh. Just to many average players

MagicIRL

Severe lack of Strootman caused LvG to change his system and drag NL to the semi finals. I can only imagine what he'll do with a midfield consisting of Herrera and Vidal next season

Cantona's Collars

@TransferNewsCen
Follow

GdS: Juventus have reached an agreement with Verona for Juan Iturbe. €25m +€2m in bonuses. Reported 5-year contract. €1.5m per year

That's Nani to Juve out the window so.

Speaking of Juve,the figure for Vidal is reported at £32 million.It was £50 million last week.

Spazdarn

Heard 35 million would do myself, but it'll likely be over 40... we always seem to pay over the odds. Which is annoying seeing as City and Chelsea seem to be getting better deals

Quandary

markcahill1985 wrote: »

As I said earlier to be honest all I saw in Jordy Clasie was Tom Cleverley, would be really underwhelmed if he was signed, think we are so starved of decent midfielders over the last 6 years that we think anyone who can make 4 or 5 successful passes would do in our midfield.

Cleverley stats and ratings based on last season - http://www.whoscored.com/Players/69956/

Clasie stats and ratings based on last season - http://www.whoscored.com/Players/90802/Show/Jordy-Clasie

He is also almost 3 years younger than Cleverley. If he was signed for a reasonable fee he would be a significant improvement over almost any of our first team midfielders. If we managed to flog Cleverley to Everton for £10m, I'm sure Clasie could be gotten for a similar fee to replace him.

Pighead

Headshot wrote: »

I don't think even expected to get out of the group stages, let alone with it. Its not the best squad around tbh. Just to many average players

They were 33/1 in Paddy Powers to win it at the start of the tournament so they obviously weren't fancied by too many to do particularly well. Shame Van Persie wasn't at the races in the knockout stages. May have cost them a world cup.

Spazdarn

Quandary wrote: »

Cleverley stats and ratings based on last season - http://www.whoscored.com/Players/69956/

Clasie stats and ratings based on last season - http://www.whoscored.com/Players/90802/Show/Jordy-Clasie

He is also almost 3 years younger than Cleverley. If he was signed for a reasonable fee he would be a significant improvement over almost any of our first team midfielders. If we managed to flog Cleverley to Everton for £10m, I'm sure Clasie could be gotten for a similar fee to replace him.

I'd much rather the 10 million be kept for a player less limited, I'm not saying I don't think Clasie is an upgrade on Cleverly, he is... but think we should be looking at less 7 out of 10's. We've a squad of average players don't want to be replacing average with average, and the squad needs trimming down anyway

Tom.D.BJJ

Business Cat wrote: »

Evra was an excellent servant to the team and although he lost the run of himself over the last couple of seasons, everything bad he ever did is negated because he did this.




Thanks for the memories Pat.

Anderson looks pretty amused by it too

Giggsy11

Pighead wrote: »

They were 33/1 in Paddy Powers to win it at the start of the tournament so they obviously weren't fancied by too many to do particularly well. Shame Van Persie wasn't at the races in the knockout stages. May have cost them a world cup.

As always. Not sure what's the problem with him but he always misses easy chances in KO matches. I think olympiakos game was exception.

Augmerson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Spy3Nd2D6w

Pro. F

Thank fùck Evra will never play for United again. He seems to be a sound fella and all that, but he's been poison on the pitch for the last few seasons. I'm delighted to see the back of him.

Backstreet Moyes

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I'd much rather the 10 million be kept for a player less limited, I'm not saying I don't think Clasie is an upgrade on Cleverly, he is... but think we should be looking at less 7 out of 10's. We've a squad of average players don't want to be replacing average with average, and the squad needs trimming down anyway

Exactly i would say Carvalho could be got for 20 million and is already very good and has the potential to be world class.

Quandary

ToiletFusion wrote: »

I'd much rather the 10 million be kept for a player less limited, I'm not saying I don't think Clasie is an upgrade on Cleverly, he is... but think we should be looking at less 7 out of 10's. We've a squad of average players don't want to be replacing average with average, and the squad needs trimming down anyway

Our whole midfield needs major surgery. It's not just our first team options. The only 2 midfielders out of last years squad worth keeping IMO are Carrick and Fellaini, and that's based on their performances over the last few years(not just last season, otherwise we would be getting rid of them all ). Ideally, we would like to ship out Cleverley, Anderson, and Fletcher(nostalgia aside, he is no longer a dependable option).

Also, for what it's worth, Vidal, Kroos, Pogba, Pirlo,and most other "World Class" centre mids only average around 7.5 out of 10 over the course of a season! If our midfielders were averaging 7 out of 10 level performances we would not have finished the season in upper mid table!

Will I Amnt

Augmerson wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Spy3Nd2D6w

You're getting very desperate. Trying to wind up United fans over a Netherlands result? New low...

Augmerson

Will I Amnt wrote: »

You're getting very desperate. Trying to wind up United fans over a Netherlands result? New low...

I'm not winding anyone up, it's a bit of banter man, lighten up.

Quandary

Nuts102 wrote: »

Exactly i would say Carvalho could be got for 20 million and is already very good and has the potential to be world class.

Carvalho for 20m??

Where have you seen his price being reported as low as that? Any articles I've read on him report his price being up around £35m! Some even have him reportedly costing up to £37m!

Pro. F

Quandary wrote: »

Carvalho for 20m??

Where have you seen his price being reported as low as that? Any articles I've read on him report his price being up around £35m! Some even have him reportedly costing up to £37m!

That's his buy-out clause, so that means the people writing the articles are spoofing.

Backstreet Moyes

Quandary wrote: »

Carvalho for 20m??

Where have you seen his price being reported as low as that? Any articles I've read on him report his price being up around £35m! Some even have him reportedly costing up to £37m!

I thought his release fee is that high. If he want's to go to United and we want him i would be surprised if we paid more than 20-25 million for him although it is United. More than likely we will pass and somebody will buy him for 15 million and we offer 30 next year.

Delboy5

Interesting article in todays Guardian:



Germany’s Mats Hummels would fit in at Louis van Gaal’s Manchester United

The urbane Borussia Dortmund centre-back would consider a move, and is grounded enough to make an instant impact
Share22

Mats Hummels has gone from budding journalist to being one of the world's best defenders. Photograph: Christophe Simon/AFP/Getty Images


In his summer pursuit of Mats Hummels, Louis van Gaal – and Manchester United fans – can take encouragement from the pilgrimage taken by the Borussia Dortmund and Germany central defender when turning 18.

On Boxing Day 2006 Old Trafford was the destination for Hummels who, along with a friend, was sent by his father, Hermann, to watch Sir Alex Ferguson’s team take on Wigan Athletic as a gift to mark his birthday of 10 days before.

A friend of Hummels says: “Manchester United is a big club for any footballer. Mats went to see them playing Wigan as a present.”

Hummels saw Cristiano Ronaldo score twice, after coming on at half-time, in a 3-1 victory in which Ole Gunnar Solskjaer also registered for a United XI that featured Wayne Rooney, Paul Scholes and Edwin van der Sar.

Hummels, who is now 25 and could cost up to £30m, was then at Bayern Munich, having joined as a six-year-old when his father moved from Bergisch Gladbach – his birthplace – to became a youth team coach at “club Hollywood”.

Hermann, a successful lower league footballer who at Mainz 05 in the early 1990s managed Hummels’ current boss, Jurgen Klopp, coached his son as a 14-year-old, deploying him as a defensive midfielder or centre-back.

Three years after the trip to Old Trafford, in February 2009, the man who scored the 13th-minute winner in Germany’s last-16 victory over France at Brazil 2014 – and who is set to start Sunday’s World Cup final against Argentina – left Bayern for Dortmund, a few months before Van Gaal took over.

His father remained at Bayern, came to know Van Gaal and was impressed by his abilities, believing the Dutchman to be one of European football’s leading coaches.

Hummels is also an admirer of Van Gaal and would welcome the chance to work with the incoming United manager who, although aware of this, is conscious Dortmund are resistant to selling him.

Hummels’ advisors also acknowledge Dortmund’s stance but believe that once Germany’s World Cup campaign is over it could change, and are hopeful United will step up their bid to prise him from the club.

Hummels admits to being attracted by playing in the Premier League although, given the sensitivities of being contracted to Dortmund until 2017, is cagey when discussing the prospect.

During the World Cup, he said: “I never think about that or talk about it because it is something that isn’t important for me right now. Maybe it will be some day, but I don’t expect it to be like that this summer.”

However, should Dortmund receive an offer from United they cannot turn down then Hummels has told friends he is open to the move.

If he was to join, Van Gaal would be acquiring a top-class operator who could fill the void left by Nemanja Vidic and Rio Ferdinand. At Dortmund, Hummels has won two Bundesliga titles plus the German Cup – and played in the 2013 Champions League final, which was lost to Bayern. He will win a 35th cap on Sunday, and was as impressive at Euro 2012 as he has been during Brazil 2014.

Hummels’ parents divorced when he was young, and his urbane upbringing should allow him to instantly adapt to the foreign environment of English football.

Hummel’s mother, Ulla Holthoff, is a journalist and was the first woman to commentate on German football. He accompanied Holthoff to games when younger, and considered following in her footsteps. “Whenever he has a match, there’s at least one journalist saying: ‘I remember when you were little’,” Holthoff says.

“Mats is a bookworm. He read a lot – even at a young age. He used to read comics in particular. He got his word play from Asterix.”

Hummels has a long-standing partner, Cathy Fischer, and is close to 23-year-old younger brother, Jonas, who plays in the German third division.

“We’re cut from the same cloth,” Hummels said of his brother. “If there’s something to come to terms with, we prefer doing it on our own.”

As a manager who wants his players to be leaders, Van Gaal will welcome this self-reliant streak should he manage to sign Hummels this summer.

Will I Amnt

Augmerson wrote: »

I'm not winding anyone up, it's a bit of banter man, lighten up.

Isn't that what match threads are for? It wasn't funny last night when you tried it and it's not funny now. I wouldn't mind but you are one of the quickest on the defensive if someone does similar about Liverpool.

Quandary

Pro. F wrote: »

That's his buy-out clause, so that means the people writing the articles are spoofing.

Most of the rags seem to think his buyout clause is somewhere around £35m, based on googling.

If Carvalho could be gotten for as little as £20m I'm sure someone would have submitted a bid by now?

glued

Pro. F wrote: »

That's his buy-out clause, so that means the people writing the articles are spoofing.

Where did you see his buy-out clause? The Portuguese press are reporting no such clause.

beno619

Let's not get sentimental about Vermealen because he might become a United player.

He's been very poor for the last 2 seasons and during his best period at Arsenal his frailties were covered up by his fantastic goalscoring.

Let's not forget who he's behind at Arsenal and his national team.

As a back up LB and CB option he would be a decent signing but I wouldn't put him ahead of any of our current CB options.

Quandary

Last March Sky was reporting Carvalho had a buyout clause of £37.5m and 4 years remaining on his current contract.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9192993/transfer-news-manchester-united-linked-with-sporting-lisbon-midfielder-william-carvalho

Herrera supposedly paid the full buyout clause
Fellaini - well we know how we handled that buyout clause


When's the last time united managed to sign a player for much lower than their buyout clause?

Spazdarn

Hummels, Vidal and Vermaelen and I would be a very happy man.

Delboy5

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Hummels, Vidal and Vermaelen and I would be a very happy man.

Think i could live with that also.......

Pro. F

glued wrote: »

Where did you see his buy-out clause? The Portuguese press are reporting no such clause.

That's a good point, I haven't any good source for his buy-out clause either. I'm just going on all the articles that have linked him to us. A lot of them have said that's how much his clause is. They all then go on to make the old mistake of assuming that's how much the player will be sold for, which proves that they are guessing about any deal.

I wouldn't trust the Portuguese press either btw, they're as bad as the rest of them.

Quandary wrote: »

Most of the rags seem to think his buyout clause is somewhere around £35m, based on googling.

If Carvalho could be gotten for as little as £20m I'm sure someone would have submitted a bid by now?

Why are you sure? Is he some amazing talent that £20m would represent extraordinary value on? I haven't watched enough of him myself to be sure, but of the little I've seen of him I would amazed if he's worth more than £20m.

Quandary wrote: »

Last March Sky was reporting Carvalho had a buyout clause of £37.5m and 4 years remaining on his current contract.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9192993/transfer-news-manchester-united-linked-with-sporting-lisbon-midfielder-william-carvalho

Herrera supposedly paid the full buyout clause
Fellaini - well we know how we handled that buyout clause


When's the last time united managed to sign a player for much lower than their buyout clause?

Other than those two examples, when's the last time we bought someone with a buyout clause?

redbaron_99

Hummels has been fairly open about wanting to remain at Dortmund. It would take a lot of money to change his mind. Can't see it happening at all.

TheDoc

Quandary wrote: »

Last March Sky was reporting Carvalho had a buyout clause of £37.5m and 4 years remaining on his current contract.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9192993/transfer-news-manchester-united-linked-with-sporting-lisbon-midfielder-william-carvalho

Herrera supposedly paid the full buyout clause
Fellaini - well we know how we handled that buyout clause


When's the last time united managed to sign a player for much lower than their buyout clause?

It's difficult to buy a player for less then a buyout clause if they have one in their contract.

In the most cases the club simply act like they don't want to sell, and can take the position that they will only sell once the buyout clause is reached.

It's extremely hard to negotiate down a buyout clause, why would a club forgo a few million, knowing they can hold out and get it.

It's rarely a case a "poor" player has a buyout clause, where a club are willing to offload beneath that target mark.

Spazdarn

Depends on the players desire to leave, think clubs like United get put to the sword because A. they know we're desperate and B. We've cash to burn

Headshot

I cant wait for the pre season games, granted I wont beable to watch them live (damn work and damn midnight games)

Mitch Connor

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Hummels has been fairly open about wanting to remain at Dortmund. It would take a lot of money to change his mind. Can't see it happening at all.

i don't think he would need to be convinced all that much. It is dortmund that would be the problem.

As I see it, it is similar to Fabregas last summer (as I believe was the case).

Hummels would join United, but isn't desperate for the move, or to leave Dortmund in general, so won't push for it. If United have a bid accepted by Dortmund, I believe he would join (though I'd expect a bunch of other top clubs to jump in and possibly take him).

To me, it very often comes down to the club, rather than the player. If the club accept a bid for the player, it can be seen as an indication the player isn't wanted (or at least they are happy to sell) and then the player will become far more open to the move.

United will need to bid big, imo, to get him as we will need to force Dortmunds hand, as I don't believe Hummels himself will try to force their hand - so the onus is very much on United.

Quandary

Pro. F wrote: »

Why are you sure? Is he some amazing talent that £20m would represent extraordinary value on? I haven't watched enough of him myself to be sure, but of the little I've seen of him I would amazed if he's worth more than £20m.

Based on the admittedly small number of times I have seen him play(probably 5 or 6 matches) I would say he'd be a very good signing for £20m. We are missing a lot of the things that Carvalho offers as a player. Solid passer, always tries to be available and looks for the ball, aggressive tackler, and he's surprising composed and pacey for such a physically imposing player. He's only 22 since April so the guy still has a lot of maturing to do but do I think he's worth £20m? Without a shadow of a doubt!

Other than those two examples, when's the last time we bought someone with a buyout clause?

None that I can think of, but when it comes to buyout clauses, unless the player throws a strop and tries to force the move, usually the buyout clause is more or less met.

dor843088

Augmerson wrote: »

I'm not winding anyone up, it's a bit of banter man, lighten up.

goodbye louis . At least he left for the right reason ...... trophies.

Mitch Connor

Headshot wrote: »

I cant wait for the pre season games, granted I wont beable to watch them live (damn work and damn midnight games)

was looking at the times, I'll be able to watch two of them - maybe a third if I work from home the next day. Stupid US timezone.

The weekend games are the only really viable ones.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

It's difficult to buy a player for less then a buyout clause if they have one in their contract.

In the most cases the club simply act like they don't want to sell, and can take the position that they will only sell once the buyout clause is reached.

It's extremely hard to negotiate down a buyout clause, why would a club forgo a few million, knowing they can hold out and get it.

It's rarely a case a "poor" player has a buyout clause, where a club are willing to offload beneath that target mark.

Where are you getting this from? That's not how buyout clauses work at all. For example, every player in Spain has to have a buyout clause in their contract, it's a legal requirement. The clauses are nearly always set at some ridiculous figure so that they become meaningless and are ignored in transfer negotiations. The vast majority of transfers in Spain conclude with fees well below the buyout clause.

If a club thinks they're getting good value for the fee offered, then they will sell. They'll pay zero attention to the buyout clause if it's set too high.