Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

secman

Nuts102 wrote: »

Did you miss the season Nani won the club player of the year and only for Bale being British he would have won Premier League player of the year.

Must be that long ago I don't actually remember it , he has been under achieving for a fair few years now.

Rayne Wooney

I'll probably start to get worried around July which is only a week away now, tying Valencia down to a 3 year contract is hilariously bad


Not a cent of the 150 million spent so far unless Valencia's contract has been taken from it

sigmundv

I'm happy the people on here aren't running the club, because then we would only have about 10 players left in the first team squad.

Son Of A Vidic

stankratz wrote: »

I am not as upset with Valencia's new contract as some appear to be. If the headline had have read "Ashley Young signs new 3 year deal at Utd" then I'd be mortified. Maybe our new manager feels that he can get Valencia playing like his old self, and for that I'm willing to give Valencia one more season. There were shades of the old Antonio still present at a few points over the past season, not enough but still evidence, the 1st leg against Bayern Munich jumping straight to mind.

Also, United are not going to get rid of 10+ players this summer, that would be mental. I'm not saying that there aren't 10 we could get rid of, but to cull them all in one summer might be too much at the one time. We will need squad players and Tony V could still be a very good one. He has a good engine and will keep going throughout the 90 minutes, but some aspects of his game need to be addressed and that's where LVG comes in.

The fact that Buttner is leaving (I'm sad to see him go) and Antonio is staying might mean that transfer funds are going to be used primarily for the positions that badly need addressing in this window - LB, MF, CB.

I would love to see a genuinely world-class winger come into the team, but really think that LVG will need to spend money on the above positions first to strengthen/repair the spine of the team.

Apart from the Buttner part, I agree with all of that. Valencia's was once regarded as a beast by us United fans. So perhaps LVG can work his magic and bring back the Valencia of old.

Corvus Maximus

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Apart from the Buttner part, I agree with all of that. Valencia's was once regarded as a beast by us United fans. So perhaps LVG can work his magic and bring back the Valencia of old.

I was very impressed with his work in the 1st leg v Bayern Munich and thought he could go on to be a good back-up option. Sad as I am to see him go, his departure surely signals that a LB signing is imminent or soon to happen, which makes me happy!

redbaron_99

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Not one club team on earth is completely jammed with superstars. Valencia is a hard working loyal player and can be a good influence on the younger players. Was our player of the year two seasons ago and didn't just become crap overnight. LvG probably feels he can get more out of him.

As a back up player for the wing he's pretty good, we should be aiming higher for first choice though and probably are.

When did I say we needed a team of superstars??
How is he a good influence on younger players?? I would have thought that a player who consistently lets the team down would not be a good influence on younger players. And he's not a very vocal guy who will guide and advise youngsters. Rvp would be a good influence on youngsters because he does his stuff when it matters: on the pitch!
Valencia is Wigan standard. He's been muck for a long time. And not just for united. Anyone who saw the match last night will have seen how limited he is.
And he is taking up a place in the squad. A place that could have been allocated to a promising youngster.

Backstreet Moyes

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Apart from the Buttner part, I agree with all of that. Valencia's was once regarded as a beast by us United fans. So perhaps LVG can work his magic and bring back the Valencia of old.

A few years ago we had arguably the best set of wingers in the world. I remember Valencia and Nani tearing teams apart and we played lovely football. The game we were 3-0 at half time against Bayern sticks out in my mind where they both tore Bayern in half. Really is a shame how both have struggled so much the last few seasons. Would love to see both come back to form but i just think defenders have learned how to deal with Valencia.

Agueroooo

Valencia for me is easily counteracted by any opposition manger/defender worth their salt.

He was very good when he first came onto the scene and did improve his game when he had better players around him after joining Utd.

But he hasn't really mixed up his game since his injury, and it's pretty predictable what he is going to do down the right, hence his game ain't that dynamic anymore .
James McClean got quickly sussed and where's he now?

Who knows maybe LVG may add another string to his bow..what age is he now?

Is there no one coming through the ranks of the academy that could challenge him?

RichFTW

redbaron_99 wrote: »

When did I say we needed a team of superstars??
How is he a good influence on younger players?? I would have thought that a player who consistently lets the team down would not be a good influence on younger players. And he's not a very vocal guy who will guide and advise youngsters. Rvp would be a good influence on youngsters because he does his stuff when it matters: on the pitch!
Valencia is Wigan standard. He's been muck for a long time. And not just for united. Anyone who saw the match last night will have seen how limited he is.
And he is taking up a place in the squad. A place that could have been allocated to a promising youngster.

Same thoughts here. If anything should be learned from the Pogba fiasco, it's that playing an average squad player in front of a talented youngster waiting for a breakthrough will lead to problems down the line.

Januzaj, Lingard, Powell & Lawrence have all shown enough talent to justify being given a chance to shine. I'd much rather see them getting a few games over watching Valencia run down the line and boot the ball full force into the defender all the time.

Vic Vinegar

redbaron_99 wrote: »

When did I say we needed a team of superstars??
How is he a good influence on younger players?? I would have thought that a player who consistently lets the team down would not be a good influence on younger players. And he's not a very vocal guy who will guide and advise youngsters. Rvp would be a good influence on youngsters because he does his stuff when it matters: on the pitch!
Valencia is Wigan standard. He's been muck for a long time. And not just for united. Anyone who saw the match last night will have seen how limited he is.
And he is taking up a place in the squad. A place that could have been allocated to a promising youngster.

Two random people in difference of opinion shocker...

Whatever anyway dude. it's too nice out to be bickering over the state of our squad all day.

redbaron_99

RichFTW wrote: »

Same thoughts here. If anything should be learned from the Pogba fiasco, it's that playing an average squad player in front of a talented youngster waiting for a breakthrough will lead to problems down the line.

Januzaj, Lingard, Powell & Lawrence have all shown enough talent to justify being given a chance to shine. I'd much rather see them getting a few games over watching Valencia run down the line and boot the ball full force into the defender all the time.

Exactly. The players you've mentioned, and others, should be given a shot rather than Valencia.
And that is something VG is famed for; giving youngsters a shot. This is why I made the earlier comment about fergie and Giggs being involved in this new contract. And the contract for evra.
I'm waiting for news on new contracts for carrick, cleverly and welbeck.

RobertKK

Congrats to Antonio, now he just needs to inspire his team in the world cup and supply good crosses to the other Valencia to get to the next round.

redbaron_99

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Two random people in difference of opinion shocker...

Whatever anyway dude. it's too nice out to be bickering over the state of our squad all day.

Which is why I'm using my phone to bicker with you.

RasTa

RichFTW wrote: »

Same thoughts here. If anything should be learned from the Pogba fiasco, it's that playing an average squad player in front of a talented youngster waiting for a breakthrough will lead to problems down the line.

Januzaj, Lingard, Powell & Lawrence have all shown enough talent to justify being given a chance to shine. I'd much rather see them getting a few games over watching Valencia run down the line and boot the ball full force into the defender all the time.

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Exactly. The players you've mentioned, and others, should be given a shot rather than Valencia.
And that is something VG is famed for; giving youngsters a shot. This is why I made the earlier comment about fergie and Giggs being involved in this new contract. And the contract for evra.
I'm waiting for news on new contracts for carrick, cleverly and welbeck.

Hmm doesn't Powell play as a number 10 or maybe CM. Jan is on the LW most games and has being given a chance to shine.

Lawrence is also not a right winger and the same for Lingard so not sure how Valencia signing a new contract hampers their progression.

redbaron_99

RasTa wrote: »

Hmm doesn't Powell play as a number 10 or maybe CM. Jan is on the LW most games and has being given a chance to shine.

Lawrence is also not a right winger and the same for Lingard so not sure how Valencia signing a new contract hampers their progression.

How about janko, zaha, nani and varela.

RichFTW

RasTa wrote: »

Hmm doesn't Powell play as a number 10 or maybe CM. Jan is on the LW most games and has being given a chance to shine.

Lawrence is also not a right winger and the same for Lingard so not sure how Valencia signing a new contract hampers their progression.

It's not just Valencia I'm singling out though. I'm talking about playing any average squad players in front of a talented youngster, be it Valencia, Nani, Young, Cleverly, Fletcher.

Pro. F

secman wrote: »

Val is a much better squad player than Nani ever will, Nani has yet to have a decent season. ... still waiting for him to come good, similar to anderson... flatter to deceive. No problem with new contract for Val

Are you a Man Utd fan?

RasTa

redbaron_99 wrote: »

How about janko, zaha, nani and varela.

What about them? Varela is a right back as is Janko. I've no time for Zaha and Nani is on the same level in terms of game time, you would have to ask Moyes why he wasn't played.

redbaron_99

RasTa wrote: »

What about them? Varela is a right back as is Janko. I've no time for Zaha and Nani is on the same level in terms of game time, you would have to ask Moyes why he wasn't played.

Valencia gets chosen ahead of Varela at full back. Janko plays both wing and RB. Nani doesnt get the same opportunity, despite being a far superior player, and Zaha is young and has a lot of potential.

bucketybuck

I'm actually flabbergasted that the powers that be decided Antonio ****ing Valencia warranted a new contract. They are living in cloud cuckoo land they really are.

I'm also quite amused at the people who keep telling themselves that maybe Fergie/Moyes/LVG will be able to get the old Valencia back. Is this what its like for Chelsea fans when they talk about Torres? Face facts, the old Valencia isn't coming back. It hasn't been a poor run of games, its been three goddamn years of utter rubbish. He has been found out, he is ****e, deal with it.

KH25

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm actually flabbergasted that the powers that be decided Antonio ****ing Valencia warranted a new contract. They are living in cloud cuckoo land they really are.

I'm also quite amused at the people who keep telling themselves that maybe Fergie/Moyes/LVG will be able to get the old Valencia back. Is this what its like for Chelsea fans when they talk about Torres? Face facts, the old Valencia isn't coming back. It hasn't been a poor run of games, its been three goddamn years of utter rubbish. He has been found out, he is ****e, deal with it.

Same as people saying Ando will come good every year. Won't happen.

Agueroooo

Valencia is 29 in just over six weeks time.

fair to say he will see out his career at Utd, as he has an option to extend it til 2018?

Saucy McKetchup

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Valencia gets chosen ahead of Varela at full back. Janko plays both wing and RB. Nani doesnt get the same opportunity, despite being a far superior player, and Zaha is young and has a lot of potential.

Let's face it, nani is ****, Valencia isn't much better, to call nani a far superior player than anyone is laughable, at this stage nani is a poor mans Bebe

Saucy McKetchup

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Let's face it, nani is ****, Valencia isn't much better, to call nani a far superior player than anyone is laughable, at this stage nani is a poor mans Bebe

Nani is a far superior player to me.

redbaron_99

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Let's face it, nani is ****, Valencia isn't much better, to call nani a far superior player than anyone is laughable, at this stage nani is a poor mans Bebe

Don't get me wrong, in not a big fan of nani. But he is far superior to Valencia. Good with both feet, good dribbler, great shot on him. It's his attitude that's the problem. But let's not open a nani debate.
The funny thing is: the club, and a lot of fans, frown upon getting players who are in their late twenties, but here we are, a new contract for a player who will be 29 before the season starts. A player who is not united quality.
Ronaldo's replacement...
Added to the new contract for Evra, who is seriously on the slide. It has me very worried for the coming season.

And it sets a bad example in my opinion. Play gash for two seasons. Get a new contract. Hardly something to influence our players to up their standards, is it.

v3ttel

Nuts102 wrote: »

Young offers far more.

He can play on the left
He can play on the right
He can play off the striker
He can take corners
He can take free kicks
He can use both feet
He can dribble past players
He can cross the ball
He can score goals

Yes. He "can" do all those things. Unfortunately, he is rubbish at the vast majority of them.

Mitch Connor

v3ttel wrote: »

Yes. He "can" do all those things. Unfortunately, he is rubbish at the vast majority of them.

Valencia is no better at any of them.

kryogen

Watching the Germany/Ghana game, great mash of styles here, Atsu and Kroos are the two I am most interested in but some good players out there on show!

kryogen

Saucy McKetchup wrote: »

Let's face it, nani is ****, Valencia isn't much better, to call nani a far superior player than anyone is laughable, at this stage nani is a poor mans Bebe

The best way I can answer this hyperbole is with the statement

Nani is WORLD CLASS.

secman

Pro. F wrote: »

Are you a Man Utd fan?

a long long time , I remember 68 very well and the lows of relegation from the old first division, remember offering up holy communion to win the league, was sick of the scousers........ then along came fergie..... so I'm not getting too down over 1 inevitable bad season following fergies retirement. So much ****e in this forum and LVG feet are hardly under the table !. Transfer window doesn't open till 1st July.



.... chill out for gods sake.

For ever a red devil.

secman

secman

Zico

Jaysus is this Nani-Valencia thing still going on?

This is what Ed Woodward has reduced the fans to.:mad:

kryogen

secman wrote: »

a long long time , I remember 68 very well and the lows of relegation from the old first division, remember offering up holy communion to win the league, was sick of the scousers........ then along came fergie..... so I'm not getting too down over 1 inevitable bad season following fergies retirement. So much ****e in this forum and LVG feet are hardly under the table !. Transfer window doesn't open till 1st July.



.... chill out for gods sake.

For ever a red devil.

secman

secman

Thought you were a Villa fan no?

kryogen

Zico wrote: »

Jaysus is this Nani-Valencia thing still going on?

This is what Ed Woodward has reduced the fans to.:mad:

Homer?

Lucas Hood

secman wrote: »

a long long time , I remember 68 very well and the lows of relegation from the old first division, remember offering up holy communion to win the league, was sick of the scousers........ then along came fergie..... so I'm not getting too down over 1 inevitable bad season following fergies retirement. So much ****e in this forum and LVG feet are hardly under the table !. Transfer window doesn't open till 1st July.



.... chill out for gods sake.

For ever a red devil.

secman

secman

Transfer window in England is open already.

titan18

kryogen wrote: »

Watching the Germany/Ghana game, great mash of styles here, Atsu and Kroos are the two I am most interested in but some good players out there on show!

Atsu "plays" for Chelsea so no chance there

Zico

kryogen wrote: »

Homer?

F_ck right off.

I'm not that bloody swivel-eyed.:P

secman

Really think LVG will get much much more from the players, Moyes unfortunately was simply over awed by the job, LVG won't be one bit , really looking forward to his reign, its absurd to assume fergie and giggs were behind the Valencia contract extension. Also bear in mind that the club will often extend a contract to ensure a transfer fee is received should the player be offloaded, no financial sense to let the contract run down and get nothing.

umop.episdn

I look at Valencia, I remember when he first came to us, speedy, direct, a real threat with the ball at his feet & able to cross while on the run.
For the past 18 months to 2 years he hasn't done that, he's regressed & is now imo, quite average.
We've given him a 3 year deal & of you look around at our main competitors in the PL, would Chelsea, Arsenal or Man City have signed him currently on a 3 year deal? Couldn't see many saying yes to that.
We spent time & money pursuing Zaha, who subsequently hasn't been given a chance & will be most likely shipped out in weeks, why not let him have a season here instead, let Powell & Lindgaard have some squad time, surely an average pro on a 3 year contract is going to harm some of these players development (not all like for like replacements) but squad places being at a premium, it could have a major effect on theirs, and others developments.
....ps, first post, go easy on me

redbaron_99

secman wrote: »

Really think LVG will get much much more from the players, Moyes unfortunately was simply over awed by the job, LVG won't be one bit , really looking forward to his reign, its absurd to assume fergie and giggs were behind the Valencia contract extension. Also bear in mind that the club will often extend a contract to ensure a transfer fee is received should the player be offloaded, no financial sense to let the contract run down and get nothing.

Valencia was poor for united before moyes arrived.
A strange way to do business. Give a player a new contract before selling him. If you can't get a buyer, you're stuck paying the players wages for a number of years.

redbaron_99

umop.episdn wrote: »

I look at Valencia, I remember when he first came to us, speedy, direct, a real threat with the ball at his feet & able to cross while on the run.
For the past 18 months to 2 years he hasn't done that, he's regressed & is now imo, quite average.
We've given him a 3 year deal & of you look around at our main competitors in the PL, would Chelsea, Arsenal or Man City have signed him currently on a 3 year deal? Couldn't see many saying yes to that.
We spent time & money pursuing Zaha, who subsequently hasn't been given a chance & will be most likely shipped out in weeks, why not let him have a season here instead, let Powell & Lindgaard have some squad time, surely an average pro on a 3 year contract is going to harm some of these players development (not all like for like replacements) but squad places being at a premium, it could have a major effect on theirs, and others developments.
....ps, first post, go easy on me

Welcome. Good post.

kryogen

titan18 wrote: »

Atsu "plays" for Chelsea so no chance there

Just like him as a player

redbaron_99

Kroos is a wonderful player. Would love to see him playing for us.

Zico

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Valencia was poor for united before moyes arrived.
A strange way to do business. Give a player a new contract before selling him. If you can't get a buyer, you're stuck paying the players wages for a number of years.

I could take a while to explain the logic if you can't already see it so I suggest you try playing a computer game called 'Football Manager' for a while, you'll get it pretty quickly then.

user2011

How much can we get for Tony next summer with this new contract in the bag?

redbaron_99

Zico wrote: »

I could take a while to explain the logic if you can't already see it so I suggest you try playing a computer game called 'Football Manager' for a while, you'll get it pretty quickly then.

Lovely condescending post there.

I understand the supposed logic behind it. But it's flawed in my opinion. And my point stands. You think Valencia's value is going to increase? Unlikely. We have now committed to paying his wage for three years. Bad decision.

Go back to playing video games.

Liam O

user2011 wrote: »

How much can we get for Tony next summer with this new contract in the bag?

I wouldn't accept a cent under €30m

user2011

Liam O wrote: »

I wouldn't accept a cent under €30m

Seems fair, a million for each year he has been on this Earth :pac:

Zico

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Lovely condescending post there.

I understand the supposed logic behind it. But it's flawed in my opinion. And my point stands. You think Valencia's value is going to increase? Unlikely. We have now committed to paying his wage for three years. Bad decision.

Go back to playing video games.

Sorry about that, no need for the sarcasm.

I'd argue that he's a player who we will be able to sell if we want. Everyone looked bad last season and I expect his performances will improve, especially if Ecuador do well at this World Cup. He's just looked very short of confidence.

redbaron_99

Zico wrote: »

Sorry about that, no need for the sarcasm.

I'd argue that he's a player who we will be able to sell if we want. Everyone looked bad last season and I expect his performances will improve, especially if Ecuador do well at this World Cup. He's just looked very short of confidence.

No worries.

His form has been poor for a couple of years though. And as I said, I do get the logic you mentioned, but it doesn't work for players who aren't top level.
Nani was given a new contract last year and it didn't nothing for his valuation. It might have even put potential buyers off.

bucketybuck

Zico wrote: »

Sorry about that, no need for the sarcasm.

I'd argue that he's a player who we will be able to sell if we want. Everyone looked bad last season and I expect his performances will improve, especially if Ecuador do well at this World Cup. He's just looked very short of confidence.

Nope. The Moyes defence does not apply to Valencia. He was utter trash and had been found out before Moyes ever walked through the door.

At this stage expecting Valencia to improve is no different than expecting Anderson to improve.