Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Lord TSC

redbaron_99 wrote: »

The guy is 29 next month. And no ones paying 7m for him - new contract or not.
And he will be 30 next summer, his form has been dreadful for a number of years. This guy's value is only going in one direction.
Strange that he turfed out butter without assessing him..

LVG would have assessed Buttner for the Dutch squad. AND it's Buttner seemingly wanting out.

Honestly, I don't think Val would fetch much more this year than next; when United sell players past their peak, value isn't really considered....

SteM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Lets just say he has another awful season, which is very likely judging by his performances in the World Cup. And we decide to sell him next summer. How much is our 30 year old asset goin to be worth on the market?

More than he would be if he was out of contract and a free agent.

KH25

stankratz wrote: »

There have been posts in the last few pages saying that expecting Valencia to come good is the same as expecting Anderson to come good, unless I'm hallucinating.

I said it and I stand by it. Valencia has been shocking for over 2 years now. He has never recaptured his best form. He is a winger who can't cross the ball and he looks afraid to take his man on. He always, always waits for the overlapping run to lay the pass off to. He was like this under Fergie so Moyes can't be blamed. He offers very little to the team these days. To expect him to magically come good after the last 2 years is the same as thinking this year Ando will break through and be a great player for us. It would be great if it happened, but it wont.

bucketybuck wrote: »

I said it, and I'll say it again.

A poster earlier referenced Valencia perhaps finding his form again under LVG. But it has been years now, and even thinking for one second that Valencia is going to regain his form is just as blindly hopeful as thinking that LVG is going to make Anderson the player we hoped he would be, or a Chelsea fan thinking Torres is suddenly going to become the player he was years ago.

+1.

Larry Wildman

Timmyctc wrote: »

Letting this "asset" leave on a free in a year is probably cheaper than giving him a new three year contract and selling him for <5m.

So paying him for a year and then letting him go for free is cheaper than paying him for a year and selling him for £5m?

Hmmmm

Larry Wildman

kryogen wrote: »

Let him assess him? I would think he has a pretty good idea of what he is about by now tbh

How at this stage would Van Gaal have enough of an idea of what Valencia is about? To all intents and purposes, he's taken over in name only. He's likely to know as much about Antonio Valencia as Diego Simeone does.

Ed The Equalizer

Would love to see Rooney in midfield to be honest. Would also give Chico more game time up front.

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How at this stage would Van Gaal have enough of an idea of what Valencia is about? To all intents and purposes, he's taken over in name only. He's likely to know as much about Antonio Valencia as Diego Simeone does.

Dear Lord. I think Louis Van Gaal watches a bit of football. And I'd be quite certain that he watched a fair amount of United last season, seeing as though he was being lined up as the next united manger... And it takes about 5 minutes to figure out what Valencia is all about.

bucketybuck

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How at this stage would Van Gaal have enough of an idea of what Valencia is about? To all intents and purposes, he's taken over in name only. He's likely to know as much about Antonio Valencia as Diego Simeone does.

Its interesting how some people think that managers have their ears to the ground and know a lot about different players and clubs, whereas others believe that managers don't really know anything about players they haven't managed.

For example David Moyes was at the same time a meticulous manager who extensively scouted thousands of players, and then also a man who needed a full summer to figure out what players he had at the league champions.

The reality is in-between of course, but football at the very highest level is a relatively small circle and I have no doubt that Louis Van Gaal already knows far more about Antonio Valencia than you or I.

Quandary

This Rooney in midfield business is coming from the Mirror so it's pure speculation at this point. It makes a certain amount of sense but I cannot see Rooney going for it. We could end up with a disgruntled £300k per week striker warming the bench or playing for the reserves.

redbaron_99

Any ideas on how Valencia fits into VG's United? I can't make any sense of this new contract. I really can't.

If he's supposed to be a wing back, then he's behind Rafeal in the pecking order. But that means Varela might awsell leave the club. Janko too. And Valencia can't defend for sh*te - that much was obvious last season.

If he's intended to play a more forward role, I don't think Van Gaal plays with traditional, line-hugging, wingers. And Valencia is too one footed to play a role that requires him to move in off the wing.

It's a baffling piece of business.

redbaron_99

Quandary wrote: »

This Rooney in midfield business is coming from the Mirror so it's pure speculation at this point. It makes a certain amount of sense but I cannot see Rooney going for it. We could end up with a disgruntled £300k per week striker warming the bench or playing for the reserves.

It doesn't make sense to me.
Play RVP up top as the main man. Rooney in midfield.
RVP gets injured. Rooney goes up top to replace him. Tom Cleverly takes Rooney's midfield role.

The sensible thing to do would be to buy a couple of proper midfielders to play in midfield.

If he can't fit Rooney, RVP and Mata into the same team, then one will have to be benched or sold.

user2011

One of the richest/biggest/bestests/most supported clubs in the world has to convert a 28 yr old striker to a midfielder because they have somehow lost their ability to spot/attract a good midfielder.

KH25

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Any ideas on how Valencia fits into VG's United? I can't make any sense of this new contract. I really can't.

If he's supposed to be a wing back, then he's behind Rafeal in the pecking order. But that means Varela might awsell leave the club. Janko too. And Valencia can't defend for sh*te - that much was obvious last season.

If he's intended to play a more forward role, I don't think Van Gaal plays with traditional, line-hugging, wingers. And Valencia is too one footed to play a role that requires him to move in off the wing.

It's a baffling piece of business.

Wing back I'm thinking. But then again, if LVG likes the look of Varela or Janko they could get a chance in the team. If not I can see them going on loan.

KH25

redbaron_99 wrote: »

It doesn't make sense to me.
Play RVP up top as the main man. Rooney in midfield.
RVP gets injured. Rooney goes up top to replace him. Tom Cleverly takes Rooney's midfield role.

The sensible thing to do would be to buy a couple of proper midfielders to play in midfield.

If he can't fit Rooney, RVP and Mata into the same team, then one will have to be benched or sold.

If LVG wants to play 1 up top, then one of Rooney or RVP will be benched. Same with one of Mata/Kags. There's no real issue with this in a sense. A big team should have subs of a similar level to whats on the field. If there's a decent rotation then its not an issue. Rooney will be the problem though. I can easily see him being sold. He won't want to be second fiddle up front and he wont want to be a CM.

Quandary

user2011 wrote: »

One of the richest/biggest/bestests/most supported clubs in the world has to convert a 28 yr old striker to a midfielder because they have somehow lost their ability to spot/attract a good midfielder.

Buying 2 quality centre mids is obviously the ideal solution but if LVG can't accommodate Rooney in the side we will find it hard to sell him considering the insane wages he's on. RVP will always be no.1 while LVG is manager and Rooney is not as good a no.10 as Mata or possibly even an on form Kagawa(based on his bundesliga performances)

It's going to be very interesting to see what he does with Rooney.

user2011

Quandary wrote: »

Buying 2 quality centre mids is obviously the ideal solution but if LVG can't accommodate Rooney in the side we will find it hard to sell him considering the insane wages he's on. RVP will always be no.1 while LVG is manager and Rooney is not as good a no.10 as Mata or possibly even an on form Kagawa(based on his bundesliga performances)

It's going to be very interesting to see what he does with Rooney.

It won't be his wages it'll be United being stubborn cnuts and not wanting to sell to a rival.

I know it's just paper talk but it's not the first time this has cropped up I'll be losing a lot of hope if we get too a third manager who can't sort out a good midfielder for us. It doesn't have to be WC Kroos/Pogba/Vidal etc.

Can't wait for the start of the season so I can see were we are at and where we are headed in the short term as a club. (Valencia 3yr extension is not a good start for me)

Pro. F

secman wrote: »

a long long time , I remember 68 very well and the lows of relegation from the old first division, remember offering up holy communion to win the league, was sick of the scousers........ then along came fergie..... so I'm not getting too down over 1 inevitable bad season following fergies retirement. So much ****e in this forum and LVG feet are hardly under the table !. Transfer window doesn't open till 1st July.



.... chill out for gods sake.

For ever a red devil.

secman

secman

So that would be a yes then. Odd that you can remember 68 very well but can't remember Nani having a decent season.

sigmundv

Nani has some of the best assist stats in the Premier League over the period he has been at Man Utd. I can't find the exact numbers, maybe someone else can give them. I have a lot of time for him, because he has the ability to change a match. He just doesn't get the opportunity often enough, because he is injured too much. I hope he can keep fit all next season and gets the chance to show what he can do. I think he plays well when given a run of matches.

Kagawa

kryogen wrote: »

Let him assess him? I would think he has a pretty good idea of what he is about by now tbh

He might be kept as an option for wing back maybe

I understand the 'assess' argument to a degree, but that's what moyes did, he shouldn't have and neither should LVG. He should look to offload Valencia etc over the next couple of years, stagger it, but bloody hell, how much time & chances do united give players now. Get rid and bring in new blood.

redbaron_99

sigmundv wrote: »

Nani has some of the best assist stats in the Premier League over the period he has been at Man Utd. I can't find the exact numbers, maybe someone else can give them. I have a lot of time for him, because he has the ability to change a match. He just doesn't get the opportunity often enough, because he is injured too much. I hope he can keep fit all next season and gets the chance to show what he can do. I think he plays well when given a run of matches.

assists in PL in 2008/2009 - 1 assist
Assists in PL in 2009/2010 - 6 - assists
Most PL assists in 2010/11 - 14 assists
assists in PL in 2011/12 - 10 assists
assists in PL in 2012/13 - 2 assists
assists in PL in 2013/14 - 0 assists

Pro. F

People belly-aching about the new manager, who is still engaged in a WC campaign, not making a call on Valencia are being stupid. LVG has never worked with Valencia before and likely never even managed against him, but LVG is supposed to give a fúck about Valencia right now and make a decision when he's in the middle of trying to win a World Cup? That's not going to happen.

The club have helped the manager out big time by making it so a decision doesn't need to be made right now. Valencia was given too many chances by Ferguson and by Moyes, but still the club have trusted the new manager to make the call in his own time. That's a great thing. It's a hell of a lot better for us fans than having the faceless back office make the decision on Valencia in the manager's place.

The fact that LVG had a world cup to manage always meant that he was going to be slow in dealing with issues at United this summer. If you were happy with the van Gaal appointment but are complaining about these things happening now then you are an idiot.

Rayne Wooney

Valencia and Evra signed up, rumours of Rooney being moved to CM

We ain't signing anybody are we :pac:

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

People belly-aching about the new manager, who is still engaged in a WC campaign, not making a call on Valencia are being stupid. LVG has never worked with Valencia before and likely never even managed against him, but LVG is supposed to give a fúck about Valencia right now and make a decision when he's in the middle of trying to win a World Cup? That's not going to happen.

The club have helped the manager out big time by making it so a decision doesn't need to be made right now. Valencia was given too many chances by Ferguson and by Moyes, but still the club have trusted the new manager to make the call in his own time. That's a great thing. It's a hell of a lot better for us fans than having the faceless back office make the decision on Valencia in the manager's place.

The fact that LVG had a world cup to manage always meant that he was going to be slow in dealing with issues at United this summer. If you were happy with the van Gaal appointment but are complaining about these things happening now then you are an idiot.

Thanks for calling half the posters on here idiots.

So..... LVG is too busy to make a call on Valencia. The club made the decision for him. That's nice.
Why did a decision on Valencia's future have to be made now? Why not wait until next month when VG is free to actually talk to the guy and work with him and see him in training? Why not wait for three months so VG can see what he does on the pitch?
Personally, I don't see any reason to rush a decision on this player - I doubt seriously that we were under pressure from dozens of top clubs who want to sign him.

sigmundv

redbaron_99 wrote: »

assists in PL in 2008/2009 - 1 assist
Assists in PL in 2009/2010 - 6 - assists
Most PL assists in 2010/11 - 14 assists
assists in PL in 2011/12 - 10 assists
assists in PL in 2012/13 - 2 assists
assists in PL in 2013/14 - 0 assists

Cheers. Do you have the number of starts as well?

redbaron_99

The Valencia thing sets a very bad precedent. Existing players should get new contracts if they play well and produce the goods on the pitch. Players who do not perform for a number of years should be turfed out, not given new contracts! That is they way top clubs are run.
But this is life at United right now. Vidic is allowed to leave - Evra gets a new deal. Youngsters don't get a chance to prove themselves - Valencia gets a three year contract.
Worrying.

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Thanks for calling half the posters on here idiots.

So..... LVG is too busy to make a call on Valencia. The club made the decision for him. That's nice.
Why did a decision on Valencia's future have to be made now? Why not wait until next month when VG is free to actually talk to the guy and work with him and see him in training? Why not wait for three months so VG can see what he does on the pitch?
Personally, I don't see any reason to rush a decision on this player - I doubt seriously that we were under pressure from dozens of top clubs who want to sign him.

What exactly is the downside with extending Antonio Valencia's contract?

And this view that Van Gaal already knows enough about Valencia (or Cleverley or Anderson or whoever) is bonkers.

Any manager worth his salt, never mind a top manager like Van Gaal, would say "eh, I'll judge him myself when I'm actually there thanks".

redbaron_99

sigmundv wrote: »

Cheers. Do you have the number of starts as well?

2007–08 26 - ?
2008–09 13 - 1 assist
2009–10 23 - 6 assists
2010–11 33 - 14 assists
2011–12 29 - 10 assists
2012–13 11 - 2 assists
2013–14 11 - 0 assists

The_Kew_Tour

People thinking we were buying loads during WC were crazy, nuts and crazy and unrealistic and really unrealistic.

Im very confident we will get deals done by August.

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

What exactly is the downside with extending Antonio Valencia's contract?

And this view that Van Gaal already knows enough about Valencia (or Cleverley or Anderson or whoever) is bonkers.

Any manager worth his salt, never mind a top manager like Van Gaal, would say "eh, I'll judge him myself when I'm actually there thanks".

So, we should not sign any players ever again?
Because how could a manager know about a player unless he's working with him for an extended period of time?
Sure, it's basically a stab in the dark to sign a player then. Right?

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Thanks for calling half the posters on here idiots.

Boo hoo.

redbaron_99 wrote: »

So..... LVG is too busy to make a call on Valencia. The club made the decision for him. That's nice.
Why did a decision on Valencia's future have to be made now? Why not wait until next month when VG is free to actually talk to the guy and work with him and see him in training? Why not wait for three months so VG can see what he does on the pitch?
Personally, I don't see any reason to rush a decision on this player - I doubt seriously that we were under pressure from dozens of top clubs who want to sign him.

No decision has been made. LVG will still be able to not play Valencia if he wants to. LVG will still be able to cut Valencia loose and leave him to sit in the reserves until he finds himself another club if he wants to.

Having a player in the final year of his contract obviously causes friction for the player and the manager. You're fooling yourself arguing otherwise.

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

So, we should not sign any players ever again?
Because how could a manager know about a player unless he's working with him for an extended period of time?
Sure, it's basically a stab in the dark to sign a player then. Right?

Yeah, that isn't the logical implication of what he said. People on this thread aren't stupid enough to fall for that argument so you'd be better off trying a more intelligent one.

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

Boo hoo.



No decision has been made. LVG will still be able to not play Valencia if he wants to. LVG will still be able to cut Valencia loose and leave him to sit in the reserves until he finds himself another club if he wants to.

Having a player in the final year of his contract obviously causes friction for the player and the manager. You're fooling yourself arguing otherwise.

Boo hoo, yourself. A decision has been made. We gave the poor player a three year contract.
Leave him in the reserves is a good idea. :rolleyes: He can decide to sit there for three years and we're picking up the bill. Because sure as sh*t no one else is going to pay him the type of wages that we are.

Having a top star in the final year of his contract causes friction and tension. Having a mediocre player in the final year is relatively unimportant.
Unless of course, he's to be part of the first team for the next couple of seasons.

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, that isn't the logical implication of what he said. People on this thread aren't stupid enough to fall for that argument so you'd be better off trying a more intelligent one.

I'm employing his logic to the assessment of potential targets. If a manager needs to work with a player to assess them properly, how can he make a reasonable decision on players to bring in?

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

A decision has been made. We gave the poor player a three year contract.
Leave him in the reserves is a good idea. :rolleyes: He can decide to sit there for three years and we're picking up the bill. Because sure as sh*t no one else is going to pay him the type of wages that we are.

And yet the club were willing to take that risk in order to make the manager's job a little less complicated in this summer when he's under such pressure. Sounds like a good move to me.

RE the last sentence: You haven't a notion how much money the club are paying Valencia and how likely it would be that he could be sold. You're trying to paint a picture of Valencia being hard to shift if LVG doesn't want him. It's wild speculation to support your excuse for a pointless whinge.

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Having a top star in the final year of his contract causes friction and tension. Having a mediocre player in the final year is relatively unimportant.
Unless of course, he's to be part of the first team for the next couple of seasons.

Lol at the idea that mediocre players aren't concerned about financial security.

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I'm employing his logic to the assessment of potential targets. If a manager needs to work with a player to assess them properly, how can he make a reasonable decision on players to bring in?

It seems to me that you are pretending to be stupid in order to make an argument. If you really do think that that is a logical conclusion of Larrry's argument about a new manager preferring to judge the players in his squad by working with them, then there's no hope for you. Somebody could try and explain to you how you are wrong, but you still wouldn't be able/willing to understand.

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

And yet the club were willing to take that risk in order to make the manager's job a little less complicated in this summer when he's under such pressure. Sounds like a good move to me.

RE the last sentence: You haven't a notion how much money the club are paying Valencia and how likely it would be that he could be sold. You're trying to paint a picture of Valencia being hard to shift if LVG doesn't want him. It's wild speculation to support your excuse for a pointless whinge.



Lol at the idea that mediocre players aren't concerned about financial security.

£4.68 million annually.

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

It seems to me that you are pretending to be stupid in order to make an argument. If you really do think that that is a logical conclusion of Larrry's argument about a new manager preferring to judge the players in his squad by working with them, then there's no hope for you. Somebody could try and explain to you how you are wrong, but you still wouldn't be able/willing to understand.

Your way of debating is to call others stupid or idiots. It's a rather idiotic way of debating.

Let me put it in clearer terms for you: his point is that the manager cannot properly assess a player without working with him. Which indicates that the manager cannot assess players from other clubs. So, the manager is making a blind gamble on bringing players in from other clubs.
That's his logic. And you're calling me stupid.

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Your way of debating is to call others stupid or idiots. It's a rather idiotic way of debating.

Let me put it in clearer terms for you: his point is that the manager cannot properly assess a player without working with him. Which indicates that the manager cannot assess players from other clubs. So, the manager is making a blind gamble on bringing players in from other clubs.
That's his logic. And you're calling me stupid.

That is not his logic.

redbaron_99 wrote: »

£4.68 million annually.

Source?

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

Source?

According to Mr Google.

Do a bit of digging and it seems his basic United wage was £4.16 Million annually.

Now, the new deal might be lower than this. It's up for debate whether the club would offer him a new contract and a wage cut at the same time.

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

According to Mr Google.

Do a bit of digging and it seems his basic United wage was £4.16 Million annually.

Now, the new deal might be lower than this. It's up for debate whether the club would offer him a new contract and a wage cut at the same time.

So like I said, you haven't a notion how much money the club are paying Valencia and how likely it would be that he could be sold.

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

So like I said, you haven't a notion how much money the club are paying Valencia and how likely it would be that he could be sold.

I've more than a fair idea of what he was being paid up until yesterday. I hardly think he's taken a massive pay cut.

He could be sold. No problem. To a club like Stoke perhaps. And they are not going to match the wage United are paying him (whatever the exact amount may be).

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I've more than a fair idea of what he was being paid up until yesterday. I hardly think he's taken a massive pay cut.

He could be sold. No problem. To a club like Stoke perhaps. And they are not going to match the wage United are paying him (whatever the exact amount may be).

What's your source for Valencia's previous contract? How does it compare to the wages of mid-table wingers? And what's your source for their wages?

You think that he probably hasn't been given a significant pay cut, but you don't know.

You are talking as if you are certain or near certain about this situation, but you are wrong. You haven't a notion.

redbaron_99

Pro. F wrote: »

What's your source for Valencia's previous contract? How does it compare to the wages of mid-table wingers? And what's your source for their wages?

You don't think that he probably hasn't been given a significant pay cut, but you don't know.

You are talking as if you are certain or near certain about this situation, but you are wrong. You haven't a notion.

Manchester United player wages (weekly)
Valencia is on this list
http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/

Sunderland player wages (annually)
http://www.tsmplug.com/football/sunderland-players-salaries/

His wages are double that of Sebastian Larsson.
Is this giving you a notion?

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Manchester United player wages (weekly)
Valencia is on this list
http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/

Sunderland player wages (annually)
http://www.tsmplug.com/football/sunderland-players-salaries/

Is this giving you a notion???

From the first link:

These are official salaries we gathered from some trusted sources, so you can trust us on the figures as they are pretty accurate while we will be publishing series of Premier League teams Salaries on this site.

lol

tupac_healy

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Manchester United player wages (weekly)
Valencia is on this list
http://www.tsmplug.com/richlist/manchester-united-players-salaries-list/

Sunderland player wages (annually)
http://www.tsmplug.com/football/sunderland-players-salaries/

His wages are double that of Sebastian Larsson.
Is this giving you a notion?

Any prospective footballers out there.....

Sign up with Ashely Young's agent!!!

How the hell is he on that!!!!

Son Of A Vidic

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that LVG had a world cup to manage always meant that he was going to be slow in dealing with issues at United this summer. If you were happy with the van Gaal appointment but are complaining about these things happening now then you are an idiot.

I don't agree with the idiot part there, but I agree with you on everything else. It's very unfortunate that the timing of the LVG appointment coincided with a World Cup year. The net result is things will move a bit slower because of LVG's distractions. And looking at the way Holland are playing, we might be waiting a bit longer than expected. So I think there's no point in fretting or being impatient, because the Iron Tulip will sort things out in his own time.

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

So, we should not sign any players ever again?
Because how could a manager know about a player unless he's working with him for an extended period of time?
Sure, it's basically a stab in the dark to sign a player then. Right?

Are you serious?

When buying a player, you actively look at him.

We're talking about Van Gaal passing judgement on someone (i.e. Valencia) without working with him or actively looking at him.

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Your way of debating is to call others stupid or idiots. It's a rather idiotic way of debating.

Let me put it in clearer terms for you: his point is that the manager cannot properly assess a player without working with him. Which indicates that the manager cannot assess players from other clubs. So, the manager is making a blind gamble on bringing players in from other clubs.
That's his logic. And you're calling me stupid.

You're kidding, right?

KH25

KH25 wrote: »

I said it and I stand by it. Valencia has been shocking for over 2 years now. He has never recaptured his best form. He is a winger who can't cross the ball and he looks afraid to take his man on. He always, always waits for the overlapping run to lay the pass off to. He was like this under Fergie so Moyes can't be blamed. He offers very little to the team these days. To expect him to magically come good after the last 2 years is the same as thinking this year Ando will break through and be a great player for us. It would be great if it happened, but it wont.

I agree with probably all of what you say there with regards to Valencia's performance, but I just don't see it the same as Ando at all. There are those who have been hoping for Ando to come good in the team ever since he came to United 6 years ago. Outside of some individual games, he hasn't done it for United.

With Tony V, he has more than 'done it' and was a beast for us for almost 3 seasons on and off. Something has obviously happened to him the last couple of seasons and at this moment it would be foolish to fully expect him to revert to his old self. But with Anderson, the hope is based on blind faith. With Tony V, there's hard evidence there that he can perform in a red jersey.

Maybe he has played as well for United as he is ever going to and he will never come good again, I just don't see it the same as Ando's situation considering 1) The length of time we've been hoping for Ando to raise his game is significantly longer, and 2) Tony V has been a beast for us in the past, Ando hasn't at all.

Now watch as LVG makes Anderson the best CM in Europe :pac:

Son Of A Vidic

stankratz wrote: »

With Tony V, he has more than 'done it' and was a beast for us for almost 3 seasons on and off. Something has obviously happened to him the last couple of seasons and at this moment it would be foolish to fully expect him to revert to his old self. But with Anderson, the hope is based on blind faith.

Since the near decapitation of his foot a few seasons back, Valencia hasn't been quite the same player. But as you said, he's a player who has contributed. Going into his 8th season, what has or what will the clown Anderson ever contribute? A few years ago there were some that thought Cleverly and Anderson were the future. Right now, shipping both out permanently is the only route LVG should take.