Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

user2011

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Since the near decapitation of his foot a few seasons back, Valencia hasn't been quite the same player. But as you said, he's a player who has contributed. Going into his 8th season, what has or what will the clown Anderson ever contribute? A few years ago there were some that thought Cleverly and Anderson were the future. Right now, shipping both out permanently is the only route LVG should take.

Not true, had his best season when he came back and since then has been on the decline. I thought it was the same until someone on here pointed it out during the season. Had his injury in 2010 won player of the season at United in 11/12 season.

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Are you serious?

When buying a player, you actively look at him.

We're talking about Van Gaal passing judgement on someone (i.e. Valencia) without working with him or actively looking at him.

You're presuming he hasn't actively looked at Valencia.
I'd be a wee but worried if at this point if our manager had no idea what our players are like.

I'm not going to clog up the thread any further. I'm just annoyed that this player was given a new contract.
I don't think bodes well for the short term future.

redbaron_99

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Since the near decapitation of his foot a few seasons back, Valencia hasn't been quite the same player. But as you said, he's a player who has contributed. Going into his 8th season, what has or what will the clown Anderson ever contribute? A few years ago there were some that thought Cleverly and Anderson were the future. Right now, shipping both out permanently is the only route LVG should take.

Wrong. He was actually better when he returned from his injury.
I agree with you on Anderson and cleverly.

Son Of A Vidic

user2011 wrote: »

I thought it was the same until someone on here pointed it out during the season. Had his injury in 2010 won player of the season at United in 11/12 season.

My memory had it in reverse, I thought he got the player of the season in 2010 and the foot injury in 2011. The oul Alzheimer's is probably kicking in.:(

MagicIRL

Finally some transfer activity!

Come in to the thread anddddd.....

fatherted1969

I'd have no issue with Tony V signing. All i hope is that we sign a couple of players that will go straight into first 11. Tony V is a squad player and a decent one i think he'll prove to be. I fully expect players that were mediocre last year to vastly improve this season,

How many players were very poor last year, Rio, Vidic, Evra (brutal) Carrick, Giggs Young all terrible. Tony V another but as he was POTY only a year or so I hope he can recapture his form.

I'd also think that VG sanctioned the deal so he maybe thinks he can improve him

tupac_healy

fatherted1969 wrote: »

I'd have no issue with Tony V signing. All i hope is that we sign a couple of players that will go straight into first 11. Tony V is a squad player and a decent one i think he'll prove to be. I fully expect players that were mediocre last year to vastly improve this season,

How many players were very poor last year, Rio, Vidic, Evra (brutal) Carrick, Giggs Young all terrible. Tony V another but as he was POTY only a year or so I hope he can recapture his form.

I'd also think that VG sanctioned the deal so he maybe thinks he can improve him

To be fair to the 40 year old....

I'd have Fellaini and Clev's names on that list much higher than his! I wouldn't say he was poor more as an expected winding down combined with both lack of game time (again expected) and the rest of the team doing poorly contributed to Giggs's less than memorable final outings for us.....

In saying that, when he did play at least he tried to do the right things, unlike some others

sigmundv

tupac_healy wrote: »

To be fair to the 40 year old....

I'd have Fellaini and Clev's names on that list much higher than his! I wouldn't say he was poor more as an expected winding down combined with both lack of game time (again expected) and the rest of the team doing poorly contributed to Giggs's less than memorable final outings for us.....

In saying that, when he did play at least he tried to do the right things, unlike some others

I agree, Giggs wasn't poor, he just didn't play very much - and sometimes he was even played on the right(!) wing!

fatherted1969

tupac_healy wrote: »

To be fair to the 40 year old....

I'd have Fellaini and Clev's names on that list much higher than his! I wouldn't say he was poor more as an expected winding down combined with both lack of game time (again expected) and the rest of the team doing poorly contributed to Giggs's less than memorable final outings for us.....

In saying that, when he did play at least he tried to do the right things, unlike some others

Jesus i'd forgotten about those two, so many players didn't bother their holes last year. Id be hoping that VG will crack a few skulls this season

sky88

I refise to believe ashly young is the 5th highest payed player they just cant be that stupid

Headshot

I dont want Verm anywhere near utd, I have enough of injury prone players at utd to last me a long time

sigmundv

Headshot wrote: »

I dont want Verm anywhere near utd, I have enough of injury prone players at utd to last me a long time

I'm thinking the same. We have had and have more than our fair share of injury prone defenders, so getting another one is pointless.

TheDoc

Yeah that Vermaelen deal probably scuppered.

Hamateing problem. Had it during the warmup probably going to be out for a while.

tupac_healy

sky88 wrote: »

I refise to believe ashly young is the 5th highest payed player they just cant be that stupid

I know they say football is gone mad but this is a whole new level of madness if it's true!

He can't be surely!!

DM_7

redbaron_99 wrote: »

£4.68 million annually.

redbaron_99 wrote: »

According to Mr Google.

Do a bit of digging and it seems his basic United wage was £4.16 Million annually.

Now, the new deal might be lower than this. It's up for debate whether the club would offer him a new contract and a wage cut at the same time.

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I've more than a fair idea of what he was being paid up until yesterday. I hardly think he's taken a massive pay cut.

Are they not different figures? Did I miss something?

Manutd_4life

pretty boring game belgium vs russia. Bring januzaj on

Grid.

Jeez....hope we stay well clear of Vermaelen!!!

bucketybuck

Interesting assessment of Felliani by Didi Hamman there. Says he is "Never a midfielder".

tupac_healy

Grid. wrote: »

Jeez....hope we stay well clear of Vermaelen!!!

Seemed top drawer in his time though.... Another one of those 'what if' players that we don't really need right now...

I'd much rather we went for proven top drawer to steer us through this transition period

Vic Vinegar

bucketybuck wrote: »

Interesting assessment of Felliani by Didi Hamman there. Says he is "Never a midfielder".

Interesting, or just plain wrong?

kryogen

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How at this stage would Van Gaal have enough of an idea of what Valencia is about? To all intents and purposes, he's taken over in name only. He's likely to know as much about Antonio Valencia as Diego Simeone does.

Well, he could use his eyes for one, you don't think he would have been keeping an eye on Man United games with RVP as his captain internationally? He could talk to Robin about Antonio also, his character etc. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that he would have a dossier on each member of the United first team?

Particularly if he has been in the frame for the job from so long ago, you would think his team could get some work done for him before he actually rocks up at Old Trafford?

Scouting is a huge part of how players are assessed. I am sure he has someone he would be able to ask to go and bring him back reports on United players and a recommendation based on that, also Valencia doesn't play for some little known team, he has been at one of the biggest clubs in the world for years, plenty of knowledge available on him.

redbaron_99

DM-ICE wrote: »

Are they not different figures? Did I miss something?

Google claimed the first figure for 2011.
Do a bit of digging and it seemed his basic united wage is less.

It doesn't really matter. The point was that he's earning more at united than he would be at a smaller club. Therefore he wouldn't be in a hurry to play hardball with us.

bucketybuck

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Interesting, or just plain wrong?

Its interesting because a common rejoinder to Felliani criticism was always to point out that he plays midfield for this highly rated Belgium side. If he can perform there for Belgium then surely he will come good for us.

Well, here he is playing midfield for Belgium, and he is shite.

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its interesting because a common rejoinder to Felliani criticism was always to point out that he plays midfield for this highly rated Belgium side. If he can perform there for Belgium then surely he will come good for us.

Well, here he is playing midfield for Belgium, and he is shite.

He has also played very well in the Belgium midfield though, so doesn't really make a difference.

I still believe he can become a good squad member, as of right now though he has it all to do, I am willing to write off last season for him all things considered, he needs to step it up this year however.

kryogen

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Interesting, or just plain wrong?

Didi has long held the opinion Fellaini is a striker, a shadow striker, but a striker none the less

Son Of A Vidic

Manutd_4life wrote: »

pretty boring game belgium vs russia. Bring januzaj on

Only reason I watched some of it was for a glimpse of januzaj, but after the first half, I lost the will to live.

Larry Wildman

kryogen wrote: »

He has also played very well in the Belgium midfield though

Genuine question (i.e. I'm not havin a go at you)...have you actually seen him playing very well in the Belgium midfield or are you a victim of the hype (as we all were).

I'm shocked at how bad he is to be honest. A terrible player and a terrible signing.

Vic Vinegar

kryogen wrote: »

Didi has long held the opinion Fellaini is a striker, a shadow striker, but a striker none the less

Didi is a dodo then. Fellaini is a midfielder clearly. He thinks so, his old boss Moyes thinks so and his manager at Belgium thinks so. I'd take their opinions over a "pundit"

Saucy McKetchup

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Didi is a dodo then. Fellaini is a midfielder clearly. He thinks so, his old boss Moyes thinks so and his manager at Belgium thinks so. I'd take their opinions over a "pundit"

I'd take my personal viewings of him over any opinions of pundits or David Moyes.

Absolutely terrible midfielder, Fellaini is a target man

Timmyctc

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Genuine question (i.e. I'm not havin a go at you)...have you actually seen him playing very well in the Belgium midfield or are you a victim of the hype (as we all were).

I'm shocked at how bad he is to be honest. A terrible player and a terrible signing.

Find it hard to follow your logic of dismissing the signing of Fellaini after one season but supporting giving Antonio Valencia a 3 year contract extension.

Mitch Connor

another week, and woodward has failed to deliver a signing. Don't think we even got a new sponsor last week.

Zico

Fellaini is the worst signing in Utd's history. Everything about it was a complete disaster.

Juan Veron, Djemba-djemba, Kleberson, Massimo Taibi even Peter Davenport can breathe a sigh of relief, there's a new face to be trotted out whenever a new signing doesn't hit the ground running.

Headshot

Pisses me off to see Veron lumped in with that lot

bucketybuck

Zico wrote: »

Fellaini is the worst signing in Utd's history. Everything about it was a complete disaster.

Juan Veron, Djemba-djemba, Kleberson, Massimo Taibi even Peter Davenport can breathe a sigh of relief, there's a new face to be trotted out whenever a new signing doesn't hit the ground running.

So when can we expect to Felliani do some running?

Timmyctc

Zico wrote: »

Fellaini is the worst signing in Utd's history. Everything about it was a complete disaster.

Juan Veron, Djemba-djemba, Kleberson, Massimo Taibi even Peter Davenport can breathe a sigh of relief, there's a new face to be trotted out whenever a new signing doesn't hit the ground running.

He has had one season where he wasn't even as bad as players like Evra, Valencia or Carrick like. This post is so mindless I'm surprised you managed the cognitive ability to type it out in the first place.

Zico

Timmyctc wrote: »

He has had one season where he wasn't even as bad as players like Evra, Valencia or Carrick like. This post is so mindless I'm surprised you managed the cognitive ability to type it out in the first place.

Well if you're happy with him, that's your business. I can't help you.

Timmyctc

Zico wrote: »

Well if you're happy with him, that's your business. I can't help you.

I never intimated as much. However, I also didn't imply that he was a worse signing than a player that played three games had one absolute mare and never played again. Which is complete horse bollocks of the highest degree. If Fellaini is United's worst EVER player by your reactionary standards then Valencia and Evra mustn't be far behind.

Robson99

Cant believe all the negativity towards Valencia getting an extension. There are far worse than him at the club and he can cover the right full position as well. Rafael ain't exactly setting the world alight with his ability to stay injury free. We need cover for there as other positions need replacing first.

Liam O

Robson99 wrote: »

Cant believe all the negativity towards Valencia getting an extension. There are far worse than him at the club and he can cover the right full position as well. Rafael ain't exactly setting the world alight with his ability to stay injury free. We need cover for there as other positions need replacing first.

Yeah not the worst, but it is between him and Young for 2nd worst.

Larry Wildman

Timmyctc wrote: »

Find it hard to follow your logic of dismissing the signing of Fellaini after one season but supporting giving Antonio Valencia a 3 year contract extension.

There seems to be confusion around what constitutes "logic".

Giving Valencia a new contract and allowing Van Gaal to assess him makes sense.

It also makes sense to allow Van Gaal to assess Fellaini too.

Where's the conflict in contending that Fellaini is rubbish and agreeing with giving Valencia a new contract?

LeeJM

Here's an original thought, maybe our new assistant manager/former caretaker manager/player for the last 23 yrs has been talking to LVG and has been left in charge of new contracts for the moment.

All the whinging about "3 year contract!!1!" is just mind numbing. Yes he isnt the player he was 3 years ago, but guess what we arent the club we were 3 years ago. As a sometime starter/impact sub Valencia will be fine. And as stated he is versatile.

bucketybuck

LeeJM wrote: »

All the whinging about "3 year contract!!1!" is just mind numbing. Yes he isnt the player he was 3 years ago, but guess what we arent the club we were 3 years ago. As a sometime starter/impact sub Valencia will be fine. And as stated he is versatile.

Thank god you aren't the manager. Settle for mediocrity and thats exactly what you will get.

Timmyctc

Larry Wildman wrote: »

There seems to be confusion around what constitutes "logic".

Giving Valencia a new contract and allowing Van Gaal to assess him makes sense.

It also makes sense to allow Van Gaal to assess Fellaini too.

Where's the conflict in contending that Fellaini is rubbish and agreeing with giving Valencia a new contract?

What is there to assess? A player that has been woeful for 3 years suddenly merits another 3 year contract? People seem to have this belief that Van Gaal will be the turd polisher to end all turd polishers when it comes to some of the dead wood in that squad.

You said Fellaini was a terrible player. That is not true. He's a good player that had one bad season. You're writing him off as an awful signing after one year yet defending giving Valencia getting yet another chance after having three consecutive years of being clearly awful.

LeeJM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thank god you aren't the manager. Settle for mediocrity and thats exactly what you will get.

Did you see last season? The whole team bar De Gea was mediocre-hopeless. Valencia is still a useful squad player to have.

I expect LVG will bring in 3-4 starters and Jones will play CB only and RVP will be like a new player. That should refresh the team immensely. But you still need squad players like Valencia/Fellaini/Smalling etc...

Timmyctc

LeeJM wrote: »

Here's an original thought, maybe our new assistant manager/former caretaker manager/player for the last 23 yrs has been talking to LVG and has been left in charge of new contracts for the moment.

All the whinging about "3 year contract!!1!" is just mind numbing. Yes he isnt the player he was 3 years ago, but guess what we arent the club we were 3 years ago. As a sometime starter/impact sub Valencia will be fine. And as stated he is versatile.

While versatility is undoubtedly a valuable asset. Valencia at RB is really a lot worse than people recall. He was often caught out playing behind the line, like Buttner and costing goals from poor marking. I think a big one was against Everton last season? (open to correction) I'd really rather Smalling and Jones ahead of him from a defensive point of view and tbh given his last three years in attack, I'd prefer anyone over him :pac:

bucketybuck

LeeJM wrote: »

Did you see last season? The whole team bar De Gea was mediocre-hopeless. Valencia is still a useful squad player to have.

Yeah I saw it. And if we continue to settle for dross like Valencia in our squad we will be seeing a few more seasons like it.

LeeJM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yeah I saw it. And if we continue to settle for dross like Valencia in our squad we will be seeing a few more seasons like it.

Out of interest how many players do you expect LVG to sign and sell?

Timmyctc

LeeJM wrote: »

Out of interest how many players do you expect LVG to sign and sell?

I see the point you're going to make, but if United are to push on, the likes of Valencia are going to have to be absolute last choice backup. Raf (Obviously when fit) ahead of Maybe Jones/Smalling or Varela if he manages to make the step up would do if no RB is signed.

With the sale of Buttner it looks like a LB is coming in and he currently has a choice of Smalling/Evans/Jones for CB and maybe a youth player stepping up. Can see a CB coming in. We're stocked in ACM and Strikers so CM and the wings (Or a single wing if Nani gets game time) is all that would be imperative to the team.

Players like val are unnecessary imho.

He doesn't need to sign too many maybe 3 if he can get the best of whats there. Even till January.

redbaron_99

LeeJM wrote: »

Here's an original thought, maybe our new assistant manager/former caretaker manager/player for the last 23 yrs has been talking to LVG and has been left in charge of new contracts for the moment.

All the whinging about "3 year contract!!1!" is just mind numbing. Yes he isnt the player he was 3 years ago, but guess what we arent the club we were 3 years ago. As a sometime starter/impact sub Valencia will be fine. And as stated he is versatile.

So much wrong with this post.

If he's left Giggs in charge of contracts I would be very very annoyed. Giggs is mates with a lot of the older players FFS. What's the point in having LVG as manager if he leaves Giggs in charge of player management for the summer???

Your second point is just as bad. You think we should be settling for lesser players because we aren't as strong as 3 years ago??? the opposite is the case. We need BETTER players to get us back to where we were 3 years ago.

And Valencia is not a versatile player. He's ridiculously one-footed, and despite what some posters think, he is not a good defender. His defensive limitations were painfully exposed on numerous occasions last season. All he's got going for him is pace - but the guy hits 30 next month, and his pace aint gonna last much longer.

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thank god you aren't the manager. Settle for mediocrity and thats exactly what you will get.

ID rather have him in the squad over young and nani tbh. I think LVG could play him at right full.
Don't think anyone wants mediocrity but FFS based on last seasons player performances everyone was mediocre bar De Gea. We ain't gona replace 14 or 15 players