Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

LeeJM

Timmyctc wrote: »

I see the point you're going to make, but if United are to push on, the likes of Valencia are going to have to be absolute last choice backup. Raf (Obviously when fit) ahead of Maybe Jones/Smalling or Varela if he manages to make the step up would do if no RB is signed.

With the sale of Buttner it looks like a LB is coming in and he currently has a choice of Smalling/Evans/Jones for CB and maybe a youth player stepping up. Can see a CB coming in. We're stocked in ACM and Strikers so CM and the wings (Or a single wing if Nani gets game time) is all that would be imperative to the team.

Players like val are unnecessary imho.

He doesn't need to sign too many maybe 3 if he can get the best of whats there. Even till January.

Personally I dont ever wanna see Jones or Smalling at RB. They are CB's and thats where they should be played. Along with Evans and 1 new CB I think we are ok there.

At RB I'd keep Rafael as first choice for this season but if his discipline doesnt improve he needs replacing. IMO Valencia as back up for RB is fine and as you say maybe even Varela getting a game.

LB Shaw coming in and Buttner leaving is good business.

I think Hernandez could be off this summer but with RVP, Rooney and Welbeck as well as Wilson I dont expect a new striker.

Wings I dont expect anybody to leave or come in. CM will see the biggest changes. I think LVG will bring in 2 and lose 2 (Ando and Cleverly, also already down Giggs)

redbaron_99

LeeJM wrote: »

Personally I dont ever wanna see Jones or Smalling at RB. They are CB's and thats where they should be played. Along with Evans and 1 new CB I think we are ok there.

At RB I'd keep Rafael as first choice for this season but if his discipline doesnt improve he needs replacing. IMO Valencia as back up for RB is fine and as you say maybe even Varela getting a game.

LB Shaw coming in and Buttner leaving is good business.

I think Hernandez could be off this summer but with RVP, Rooney and Welbeck as well as Wilson I dont expect a new striker.

Wings I dont expect anybody to leave or come in. CM will see the biggest changes. I think LVG will bring in 2 and lose 2 (Ando and Cleverly, also already down Giggs)

Did you not see him at full back last season? The guy is not a full back. End of story. This is one of the main reasons that I got so p8ssed off about this contract. Varela is good young fullback who might not now get his chance, because Valencia is above him in the pecking order.

As another poster pointed out yesterday, this policy of playing average senior players ahead of top youngsters has hurt us in the past (Pogba). I would hate to see us lose more top young players because we have to justify the contracts of Valencia and others like him.

LeeJM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Did you not see him at full back last season? The guy is not a full back. End of story. This is one of the main reasons that I got so p8ssed off about this contract. Varela is good young fullback who might not now get his chance, because Valencia is above him in the pecking order.

As another poster pointed out yesterday, this policy of playing average senior players ahead of top youngsters has hurt us in the past (Pogba). I would hate to see us lose more top young players because we have to justify the contracts of Valencia and others like him.

Yeah I saw him last season and he's not ideal as a RB but as experienced back up he's a good option. 4 games into the season and Rafael tears his ACL we are left with Smalling/Jones/Varela at RB and as i said before I never want to see Smalling or Jones at RB.

Yeah Varela MIGHT step up and be brilliant or he might be another John O'Kane. Its for that reason we need experience in the squad. Also the danger in changing a squad too much has been seen before ie Spurs

Mitch Connor

LeeJM wrote: »

Yeah I saw him last season and he's not ideal as a RB but as experienced back up he's a good option. 4 games into the season and Rafael tears his ACL we are left with Smalling/Jones/Varela at RB and as i said before I never want to see Smalling or Jones at RB.

Yeah Varela MIGHT step up and be brilliant or he might be another John O'Kane. Its for that reason we need experience in the squad. Also the danger in changing a squad too much has been seen before ie Spurs

but valencia is crap at right back. it doesn't matter that he is an experienced sernior player, he doesn't have a fecking clue what he is doing at right back. If we are creating a squad with him as a right back, we are building a BAD squad.

LeeJM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

but valencia is crap at right back. it doesn't matter that he is an experienced sernior player, he doesn't have a fecking clue what he is doing at right back. If we are creating a squad with him as a right back, we are building a BAD squad.

I see your point that he isnt brilliant at RB but in my opinion and thats all it is is my opinion he is a decent back up option if Rafael is injured or suspended and LVG doesnt fancy Varela.

redbaron_99

LeeJM wrote: »

Yeah I saw him last season and he's not ideal as a RB but as experienced back up he's a good option. 4 games into the season and Rafael tears his ACL we are left with Smalling/Jones/Varela at RB and as i said before I never want to see Smalling or Jones at RB.

Yeah Varela MIGHT step up and be brilliant or he might be another John O'Kane. Its for that reason we need experience in the squad. Also the danger in changing a squad too much has been seen before ie Spurs

Experience has nothing to do with it. You are playing a guy who is not good at defending in a defensive position. Rafeal is first choice. If he's injured we should be looking to Varela and also to Janko. These lads are full backs, they're good players and deserve to get a shot.
I was always under the impression that Van Gaal was a big promoter of young players.

redbaron_99

And if van gaal wanted to properly assess him, why didn't we give him a year extension on his existing contract? Let him earn a NEW contract.

LeeJM

He has previously been a big fan of promoting youth. Just gotta wait and see what he makes of the youth at the club. I know people will get carried away about his selections for friendlies and the tour etc but the first PL game will be the real answer to whether he fancies any of the young lads.

And yes the last bit of that sentence does sound a bit questionable ;-)

Mitch Connor

LeeJM wrote: »

the first PL game will be the real answer to whether he fancies any of the young lads.

disagree - would make more sense that the young players would be integrated and used over time, rather than they are either part of the first team on the first day or he doesn't fancy them.

redbaron_99

LeeJM wrote: »

He has previously been a big fan of promoting youth. Just gotta wait and see what he makes of the youth at the club. I know people will get carried away about his selections for friendlies and the tour etc but the first PL game will be the real answer to whether he fancies any of the young lads.

And yes the last bit of that sentence does sound a bit questionable ;-)

Januzaj might want to be careful with the soap

Larry Wildman

Timmyctc wrote: »

What is there to assess? A player that has been woeful for 3 years suddenly merits another 3 year contract? People seem to have this belief that Van Gaal will be the turd polisher to end all turd polishers when it comes to some of the dead wood in that squad.

You said Fellaini was a terrible player. That is not true. He's a good player that had one bad season. You're writing him off as an awful signing after one year yet defending giving Valencia getting yet another chance after having three consecutive years of being clearly awful.

Does Valencia have significant monetary value? Yes.

Does Van Gaal need time to assess his new squad? Yes.

Not renewing Valencia's contract would be idiotic. If Van Gaal doesn't like what he sees, we ship him off to Stoke/Sunderland/Everton/Wherever for (say) £7m.

Me not rating Fellaini and me being okay with Valencia's contract renewed aren't conflicting viewpoints. For example, just because I don't rate Fellaini, it doesn't mean that I think he should be sacked or released on a free. He too has a value and could be shipped out for a tidy sum. But I'd expect Van Gaal to want to see Fellaini up close too before he passes judgement.

It's funny that some posters expect Van Gaal to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Manchester United players when he's been up to his neck with the World Cup and preparations for same. I'd actually be surprised if he knows what Tom Cleverley looks like. I'd actually be surprised if he'd recognise Jonny Evans if he stood next to him in a bar. Yet some posters expect him to have his mind made up about who's in and who's out!!!

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Does Valencia have significant monetary value? Yes.

Does Van Gaal need time to assess his new squad? Yes.

Not renewing Valencia's contract would be idiotic. If Van Gaal doesn't like what he sees, we ship him off to Stoke/Sunderland/Everton/Wherever for (say) £7m.

Me not rating Fellaini and me being okay with Valencia's contract renewed aren't conflicting viewpoints. For example, just because I don't rate Fellaini, it doesn't mean that I think he should be sacked or released on a free. He too has a value and could be shipped out for a tidy sum. But I'd expect Van Gaal to want to see Fellaini up close too before he passes judgement.

It's funny that some posters expect Van Gaal to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Manchester United players when he's been up to his neck with the World Cup and preparations for same. I'd actually be surprised if he knows what Tom Cleverley looks like. I'd actually be surprised if he'd recognise Jonny Evans if he stood next to him in a bar. Yet some posters expect him to have his mind made up about who's in and who's out!!!

Jesus, I thought you were serious earlier. Just reading that post I've realised now you are taking the p*ss.

Timmyctc

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Does Valencia have significant monetary value? Yes.

Does Van Gaal need time to assess his new squad? Yes.

No. No he doesn't.

We managed to sell an infinitely better player in Berbatov to fulham for £5m

And he was a player who oozed class and fired us to a league title.
Valencia has done sweet F.A. in three years. Absolutely no exaggeration but Valencia has done nothing to merit a new contract in 2-3 years.
He is as close to worthless as a top 10 side PL player can be.

Headshot

Nani scores

IvySlayer

Naniiiiiiii

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

And if van gaal wanted to properly assess him, why didn't we give him a year extension on his existing contract? Let him earn a NEW contract.

Your argument is flawed because it's based on an assumption that Valencia has no monetary value and that no other club would want him.

There is no material downside to giving him a new contract. There is a big downside to not renewing his contract (the potential loss of an asset worth millions). Ergo, you give the man a new contract.

If after a season, Van Gaal doesn't fancy him, then by all means ship him out and get a decent fee.

Timmyctc

HON THE NANI

The_Kew_Tour

Sell him

MagicIRL

Delighted for Nani. Hope this boosts his morale and he returns to form.

n32

So thats Nani and Fellaini who have suddenly found their goalscoring touch again as soon as they take off a United shirt!

Vic Vinegar

Lovely dummy and finish from the Nanster.

Western Pomise

Nani after blasting in a goal v USA...would be great to see him score a hat trick!....as it would increase his value if sold or have him brimming with confidence returning after off season:

Timmyctc

n32 wrote: »

So thats Nani and Fellaini who have suddenly found their goalscoring touch again as soon as they take off a United shirt!

Its that heavy fibre of the united top. As soon as we take off the AON sponsor we'll be laughing.

Larry Wildman

Timmyctc wrote: »

No. No he doesn't.

We managed to sell an infinitely better player in Berbatov to fulham for £5m

And he was a player who oozed class and fired us to a league title.
Valencia has done sweet F.A. in three years. Absolutely no exaggeration but Valencia has done nothing to merit a new contract in 2-3 years.
He is as close to worthless as a top 10 side PL player can be.

Not a great comparison.

Berbatov was four years older (31 vs 27) and was on bigger money.

Is your suggestion that he should be just sacked? And do you think that he's worth less than £5m?

I could see a number of clubs happily paying at least £7m for Antonio Valencia to be honest.

Van.Bosch

wrote:

Not renewing Valencia's contract would be idiotic. If Van Gaal doesn't like what he sees, we ship him off to Stoke/Sunderland/Everton/Wherever for (say) £7m.

If this is the list of buyers does this not answer the question of whether he is good enough for Man Utd?

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Jesus, I thought you were serious earlier. Just reading that post I've realised now you are taking the p*ss.

When / where exactly am I taking the p..s?

Timmyctc

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Not a great comparison.

Berbatov was four years older (31 vs 27) and was on bigger money.

Is your suggestion that he should be just sacked? And do you think that he's worth less than £5m?

I could see a number of clubs happily paying at least £7m for Antonio Valencia to be honest.

Valencia is 29 in a month. He is a far inferior player and he is most certainly worth <5m.

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

When / where exactly am I taking the p..s?

You think the manager of Manchester United doesn't know what johny Evans looks like. I hope you are taking the p*ss.

Larry Wildman

Van.Bosch wrote: »

If this is the list of buyers does this not answer the question of whether he is good enough for Man Utd?

Maybe it does or maybe it doesn't.

The point is that there was nothing wrong with renewing his contract. Doing so protects the club. It was a sensible business decision.

Van.Bosch

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Maybe it does or maybe it doesn't.

The point is that there was nothing wrong with renewing his contract. Doing so protects the club. It was a sensible business decision.

I agree his contract just retains his value, so no problem with that. Just think LVG will know already or have a very good idea of whether AV is in his plans

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

You think the manager of Manchester United doesn't know what johny Evans looks like. I hope you are taking the p*ss.

What part do you not get?

Did you have a dream that when Van Gaal took over, he went to Carrington, met the players, took training for a few weeks and then jetted off to Brazil the day before Holland played Spain?

Because from memory, Van Gaal met club officials and Ryan Giggs, all while preparing for the World Cup and mostly in Holland. Then he went off to the World Cup. In reality, Van Gaal hasn't started as manager of Manchester United.

RichFTW

LeeJM wrote: »

Yeah I saw him last season and he's not ideal as a RB but as experienced back up he's a good option. 4 games into the season and Rafael tears his ACL we are left with Smalling/Jones/Varela at RB and as i said before I never want to see Smalling or Jones at RB.

Yeah Varela MIGHT step up and be brilliant or he might be another John O'Kane. Its for that reason we need experience in the squad. Also the danger in changing a squad too much has been seen before ie Spurs

Might be another John O'Kane, might also be another Gary Neville. We won't know until he gets a chance. Youth players being promoted to the seniors is not as disruptive as Spurs bringing new players in from other clubs/nations. United's past glory was built on promoting youth players, it's time to resurrect that policy as opposed to sticking with average squad players no matter how bad they consistently play

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It's funny that some posters expect Van Gaal to have an encyclopedic knowledge of Manchester United players when he's been up to his neck with the World Cup and preparations for same. I'd actually be surprised if he knows what Tom Cleverley looks like. I'd actually be surprised if he'd recognise Jonny Evans if he stood next to him in a bar. Yet some posters expect him to have his mind made up about who's in and who's out!!!

It's funny that you think United players are part of secret organisation that nobody knows about. I'm sure LVG has his own scouts & coaches who will be gathering information for him while he is at the World Cup, not to mention the advice of his assistant manger who has been at the club for over 20 years! You hardly think LVG is going to turn up after the WC with zero preparation or knowledge of the club. I'd say he has a fair idea of the in's & out's but will reserve his final judgement on some decisions until he gets a first hand look.

Headshot

Nani not increasing his transfer costs

He's been ****e

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

What part do you not get?

Did you have a dream that when Van Gaal took over, he went to Carrington, met the players, took training for a few weeks and then jetted off to Brazil the day before Holland played Spain?

Because from memory, Van Gaal met club officials and Ryan Giggs, all while preparing for the World Cup and mostly in Holland. Then he went off to the World Cup. In reality, Van Gaal hasn't started as manager of Manchester United.

Van gaal will be very familiar with all the players at united. He didn't need to visit carrington.

Timmyctc

Headshot wrote: »

Nani not increasing his transfer costs

He's been ****e

He's not been any worse than the rest. He's among the better. Moutinho and Merieles been very good. Ronaldo showing some good touches too.

Headshot

Timmyctc wrote: »

He's not been any worse than the rest. He's among the better. Moutinho and Merieles been very good. Ronaldo showing some good touches too.

You must of missed his dreadful passing and lack of any control of the ball

redbaron_99

Nani has given the ball away time an time again. Disgraceful for a player with his natural ability.

Timmyctc

Headshot wrote: »

You must of missed his dreadful passing and lack of any control of the ball

Only time he really failed to control the ball was from a 70yard plus pass he took a slightly heavy touch on at full pelt. Some wayward passing from everyone on Portugal team. Not a lot of great movement either. Nothing to make Nani stand out as any worse than the rest.

Larry Wildman

RichFTW wrote: »

Might be another John O'Kane, might also be another Gary Neville. We won't know until he gets a chance. Youth players being promoted to the seniors is not as disruptive as Spurs bringing new players in from other clubs/nations. United's past glory was built on promoting youth players, it's time to resurrect that policy as opposed to sticking with average squad players no matter how bad they consistently play



It's funny that you think United players are part of secret organisation that nobody knows about. I'm sure LVG has his own scouts & coaches who will be gathering information for him while he is at the World Cup, not to mention the advice of his assistant manger who has been at the club for over 20 years! You hardly think LVG is going to turn up after the WC with zero preparation or knowledge of the club. I'd say he has a fair idea of the in's & out's but will reserve his final judgement on some decisions until he gets a first hand look.

I would expect Van Gaal to be focussed 100% on Holland and the World Cup.

Headshot

Timmyctc wrote: »

Only time he really failed to control the ball was from a 70yard plus pass he took a slightly heavy touch on at full pelt. Some wayward passing from everyone on Portugal team. Not a lot of great movement either. Nothing to make Nani stand out as any worse than the rest.

So you dont remember the easy pass to him that he let slip under his foot to go out for a USA throw?

Timmyctc

Headshot wrote: »

So you dont remember the easy pass to him that he let slip under his foot to go out for a USA throw?

Sorry. Musta missed that one. He hasn't really been the worst player on the pitch though. Far from it. He miscontrolled again there now but the wingbacks seem to be intent on pelting the ball at players as opposed to passing it to them.

Larry Wildman

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Van gaal will be very familiar with all the players at united. He didn't need to visit carrington.

How exactly? He's been tied up with a little shindig down in South America since he "took over" United (the reality is that he hasn't taken over yet at all). Are Jonny Evans, Tom Cleverley, etc all high profile in Holland / Spain / Germany? If Jonny Evans walked up to Louis Van Gaal and said "Hi" I would be genuinely shocked if Van Gaal knew him from Adam.

Correct me if I'm wrong...Van Gaal hasn't met the players yet? My understanding is that he met United execs and Ryan Giggs.

DARK-KNIGHT

brilliant play by ronnie followed by a great nani effort

redbaron_99

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How exactly? He's been tied up with a little shindig down in South America since he "took over" United (the reality is that he hasn't taken over yet at all). Are Jonny Evans, Tom Cleverley, etc all high profile in Holland / Spain / Germany? If Jonny Evans walked up to Louis Van Gaal and said "Hi" I would be genuinely shocked if Van Gaal knew him from Adam.

Correct me if I'm wrong...Van Gaal hasn't met the players yet? My understanding is that he met United execs and Ryan Giggs.

Sigh

Timmyctc

Nani almost scores again.

RichFTW

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I would expect Van Gaal to be focussed 100% on Holland and the World Cup.

And well he should. Do you think he is going to turn up at Carrington so with his lad in hand asking everyone what Cleverly looks like and have no knowledge of the club? The man known for his planning is just going to turn up blind to one of the biggest jobs in world football?! Use your head man.

He has already appointed his team of coaches, logic would point towards delegating to them the ground work of scouting the club and its needs seeing as he is in Brazil. I'm sure he has picked up some contacts in the game as well over his years in football who would have scouting reports done on United's players.

DARK-KNIGHT

to suggest lvg knows next to nobody in our squad is laughable hang your head son

v3ttel

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Nani has given the ball away time an time again. Disgraceful for a player with his natural ability.

Headshot wrote: »

Nani not increasing his transfer costs

He's been ****e

Yes, it's not like he has scored the only goal of the game so far. It's not like he's just cracked the post with a piledriver to nearly put them 2-0 up either, or earlier brought a good save from Howard.

Let's take someone that doesn't give the ball away but doesn't produce match winning moments.

Timmyctc

v3ttel wrote: »

Yes, it's not like he has scored the only goal of the game so far. It's not like he's just cracked the post with a piledriver to nearly put them 2-0 up either, or earlier brought a good save from Howard.

Let's take someone that doesn't give the ball away but doesn't produce match winning moments.

Valencia keeps the ball :pac: Passes it back to the Right back all the time. Lets keep him instead.

bucketybuck

Larry Wildman wrote: »

What part do you not get?

Did you have a dream that when Van Gaal took over, he went to Carrington, met the players, took training for a few weeks and then jetted off to Brazil the day before Holland played Spain?

I've never been to Carrington and never taken United training either. I still know Valencia is **** though.