Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

kryogen

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Who said that?

This chap seemed to be quite negative about the chances of it happening

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91005986&postcount=2618

Buddy Holly wrote:

Full year chasing a player and we still can't sign him.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91005862&postcount=2606

Buddy Holly wrote:

This doesn't reflect favourably on Woodward again. He really is under pressure now.

dor843088

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Ballague saying its just politics on Herrera so they can save face and say they did all they could to keep him. He fully expects Herrera to join united. Herrera will most likely pay his own buyout with money from united.

I know many here don't trust ballague, but he's fairly definite on it on twitter.

Fairly definite ? 60% of the time it works every time like?

john moloney

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I've a feeling they're going to move toward a 4-2-3-1 formation next season especially in Europe. They struggled in Europe with just Yaya and Fernandinho (who then got injured) against sides who had more possession than them. Basically its an upgrade from playing Milner at CM in a 3.

Yaya and Fernandinho are box to box midfielders maybe they want a midfielder to sit while the other two run riot at the other end

kryogen

Its Milner, I had forgotten him. He will be moved on maybe and with Barry no longer there I suppose the need for a disciplined CM who will just sit is required.

Cantona's Collars

kryogen wrote: »

Its Milner, I had forgotten him. .

How could anyone forget the most bland,boring footballer in England? :pac:

Mantis Toboggan

kryogen wrote: »

This chap seemed to be quite negative about the chances of it happening

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91005986&postcount=2618


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91005862&postcount=2606

Aye, but I never said he wouldn't sign eventually. Sure he'll probably sign up once we pay an extra couple of million like in the Fellani deal.

Zico

kryogen wrote: »

This chap seemed to be quite negative about the chances of it happening

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91005986&postcount=2618


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91005862&postcount=2606

Good on him for not getting sucked in by rumours from hacks and ex-players in rags and on twitter.

I feel a bit embarrassed myself for not anticipating Woodward would f@ck this up.

I can't belive this **** is happening again, the shame.

TheDoc

Seems a touch to obvious for me

a) Club is selling one of it's top players. Fans will not be happy. Club rejects bid to force clause route, to front to fans they do not want to sell

b) Herrera has indicated he is leaving, with the clubs consent or not. Indication is he won't miss out again this summer, he is coming.

c) Spanish players are technically assets owned by the Spanish league. As part of this the sale and purchase of players(assets) are subject to tax. Like our DIRT tax, just an extremely low amount in Spain. Bilbao will have to pay 4% of this deal to the taxman, probably want to get United to pay it.

d) Woodward is under pressure no doubt. This will be coming from the board to provide LVG the tools he needs. There won't be skimping this summer. Downside is it might lead to overspending, but they wont pull the plug on a big deal over 4% tax.

e) Herrera was confirmed as in England by an outragous amount of reliable sources.

Not worried here, I would imagine that Woodward and his team have done due dilligence in relation to Spanish transfers, after the issues encountered last year.

Also, it would appear that it's not a case of the club holding out for the increased transfer fee. The indication is that while Athletico are rejecting the bid ( that matches the buyout, and mkes the process quicker) we can simply provide Herrera with the funds to buy himself out. This paperwork has already being submitted and is being reviewed, and while this paperwork is in review, the fee will remain.

So my understanding is that if the Spanish FA operate like our civil service, and they are still milking through the paperwork next week, the new buyout clause makes no odds, unless a new submission is made.

TheDoc

I'm not one for being "contraversial" in terms of calling people names and making some aggro.

But I think I'll make a good starting line for myself, for the rest of the day

Anyone that thinks this is Wooodwards fault, is clueless, and looking for a scapegoat to point the finger at for the sale of it.

POSSY

MagicIRL wrote: »

HERRERA WOOOAOO HERRERA WOOOAOAAA

HERRERA WOOOAOO ,
HERRERA WOOOAOAAA,
He's coming from Bilbao,
Poor Eds not quite sure how.
HERRERA WOOOAOO ,
HERRERA WOOOAOAAA,

kryogen

Zico wrote: »

Good on him for not getting sucked in by rumours from hacks and ex-players in rags and on twitter.

I feel a bit embarrassed myself for not anticipating Woodward would f@ck this up.

I can't belive this **** is happening again, the shame.

So, I ask you also.

Will you be shaken to the very core and re evaluate your life and how you make your choices when he is pictured with a United jersey?

Will you cry? Curl up into a ball and scream Woodwards name, though your not sure why?

Zico

TheDoc wrote: »

Not worried here, I would imagine that Woodward and his team have done due dilligence in relation to Spanish transfers, after the issues encountered last year.

That's what any sane person would expect but yet here we are. Atletic have publicly rejected our bid.

So either Woodward didn't prepare the deal properly, despite having a year to do so or this latest public slap in the face for the club was anticipated as part of the deal and Woodward was unconcerned how it would afftect the clubs image with fans and sponsors.

WOODWARD OUT!

KH25

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm not one for being "contraversial" in terms of calling people names and making some aggro.

But I think I'll make a good starting line for myself, for the rest of the day

Anyone that thinks this is Wooodwards fault, is clueless, and looking for a scapegoat to point the finger at for the sale of it.

Im still confident the deal will happen. Bilbao are most likely just posturing for the fans. They have to. All clubs do it when losing a big player.

john moloney

Zico wrote: »

That's what any sane person would expect but yet here we are. Atletic have publicly rejected our bid.

So either Woodward didn't prepare the deal properly, despite having a year to do so or this latest public slap in the face for the club was anticipated as part of the deal and Woodward was unconcerned how it would afftect the clubs image with fans and sponsors.

WOODWARD OUT!

Nah just move into a position where he can make us money and get us sponsors and away from anything that involves transfers

Cookiemunster

Zico wrote: »

That's what any sane person would expect but yet here we are. Atletic have publicly rejected our bid.

So either Woodward didn't prepare the deal properly, despite having a year to do so or this latest public slap in the face for the club was anticipated as part of the deal and Woodward was unconcerned how it would afftect the clubs image with fans and sponsors.

WOODWARD OUT!

Have you read any of this thread? This is how Athletic do business. They've done it before, they'll do it again. Herrera has to buy out his own contract, just like Martinez when he went to Bayern. It has nothing to do with Woodward.

Al Capwned

Re Woodward....

What Doc said.

john moloney

What would people think (I know its unlikely) if we signed witsel?

kryogen

Zico wrote: »

That's what any sane person would expect but yet here we are. Atletic have publicly rejected our bid.

So either Woodward didn't prepare the deal properly, despite having a year to do so or this latest public slap in the face for the club was anticipated as part of the deal and Woodward was unconcerned how it would afftect the clubs image with fans and sponsors.

WOODWARD OUT!

You're becoming hysterical Jane. You need to slap yourself quickly, or maybe eat a snickers

kryogen

john moloney wrote: »

What would people think (I know its unlikely) if we signed witsel?

I would think, good player, bit of a nasty streak though. Would worry about him in the Premier League, but if he was cheap I wouldnt say no

No let me ask you

What you you think (i Know its unlikely) if we signed Bradley?

Hococop

Zico wrote: »

That's what any sane person would expect but yet here we are. Atletic have publicly rejected our bid.

So either Woodward didn't prepare the deal properly, despite having a year to do so or this latest public slap in the face for the club was anticipated as part of the deal and Woodward was unconcerned how it would afftect the clubs image with fans and sponsors.

WOODWARD OUT!

Stop panicking man it will all be ok

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Anyone that thinks this is Wooodwards fault, is clueless, and looking for a scapegoat to point the finger at for the sale of it.

I... dislike woodward, but would agree that based on the available info right now, nothing has been done 'wrong' and it is likely proceeding how United (or any club) would expect it to.

Zico

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Have you read any of this thread? This is how Athletic do business. They've done it before, they'll do it again. Herrera has to buy out his own contract, just like Martinez when he went to Bayern. It has nothing to do with Woodward.

Have you read anything I've said?

Either Woodward anticipated these problems or he didn't, judging by the comments here everybody saw this coming so if Woodward didn't then he's incompetent, Woodward out.

If he did see this coming and did nothing to mitigate the embarrassment of yet another saga of public rejections and perceptions of paying over the odds for a player then he is not suited to the job. Woodward out.

john moloney

kryogen wrote: »

I would think, good player, bit of a nasty streak though. Would worry about him in the Premier League, but if he was cheap I wouldnt say no

No let me ask you

What you you think (i Know its unlikely) if we signed Bradley?

He isn't as nasty as he was when he was younger though with that tackle that drove him out of Belgium. I think he would be a good signing, I hadn't seen much of him before the world cup but he is really stepping up for the US. To be honest I would love to see any of Romas midfield to come because I think Strootman,Pjanic and Bradley would be great signings.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

Anyone that thinks this is Wooodwards fault, is clueless, and looking for a scapegoat to point the finger at for the sale of it.

You can see peoples point though.

This is a guy we supposedly scouted and tried to get last summer. If the interest remained, and clearly it had, then we had a full year to do all the talking, negotiating, back slapping and brown envelope passing that we needed to do to make the transfer happen. Yet here we are and still there are issues not sorted.

If this was a player LVG had requested on his arrival then nobody would have a problem with going through the usual transfer doubletalk process. But its not, all these details should have been ironed out months ago.

I have no idea whats really happening with the transfer, I don't bother with Twitter rumor bull****. Herrera could sign tomorrow for all I know. But I can definitely see why Woodward gets short thrift on how the transfer business plays out.

Zico

kryogen wrote: »

You're becoming hysterical Jane. You need to slap yourself quickly, or maybe eat a snickers

*sigh*

Ok, I'm fine now.

66 days left in the transfer window.:D

redbaron_99

Zico wrote: »

That's what any sane person would expect but yet here we are. Atletic have publicly rejected our bid.

So either Woodward didn't prepare the deal properly, despite having a year to do so or this latest public slap in the face for the club was anticipated as part of the deal and Woodward was unconcerned how it would afftect the clubs image with fans and sponsors.

WOODWARD OUT!

I think you should read the previous few pages here. This is down to Bilbao, not Woodward. Everyone here understands that, except you.

kryogen

Zico wrote: »

Have you read anything I've said?

Either Woodward anticipated these problems or he didn't, judging by the comments here everybody saw this coming so if Woodward didn't then he's incompetent, Woodward out.

If he did see this coming and did nothing to mitigate the embarrassment of yet another saga of public rejections and perceptions of paying over the odds for a player then he is not suited to the job. Woodward out.

You are wrong.

Edit:
Now that you are calmer, read up on Bilbao and how they are to deal with. It wont seem as bad to you

redbaron_99

Zico wrote: »

Have you read anything I've said?

Either Woodward anticipated these problems or he didn't, judging by the comments here everybody saw this coming so if Woodward didn't then he's incompetent, Woodward out.

If he did see this coming and did nothing to mitigate the embarrassment of yet another saga of public rejections and perceptions of paying over the odds for a player then he is not suited to the job. Woodward out.

Or it's a completely unavoidable situation because we are dealing with Bilbao. If you want the player, you have to play this game.

RobertKK

At least the Gareth Bale transfer from Spurs to RM was not dragged out last summer...
This Herrera transfer broke only a couple of days back out of the blue. I expect it to be completed soon.

markcahill1985

john moloney wrote: »

He isn't as nasty as he was when he was younger though with that tackle that drove him out of Belgium. I think he would be a good signing, I hadn't seen much of him before the world cup but he is really stepping up for the US. To be honest I would love to see any of Romas midfield to come because I think Strootman,Pjanic and Bradley would be great signings.

You do know Bradley doesnt play for Roma anymore?

john moloney

markcahill1985 wrote: »

You do know Bradley doesnt play for Roma anymore?

oh ya i forgot thanks for reminding me

kryogen

markcahill1985 wrote: »

You do know Bradley doesnt play for Roma anymore?

He obviously doesn't but in fairness Bradley only moved back to the US in January

Mitch Connor

Zico wrote: »

Have you read anything I've said?

Either Woodward antipicapted these problems or he didn't, judging by the comments here everybody saw this coming so if Woodward didn't then he's incompetent, Woodward out.

If he did see this coming and did nothing to mitigate the embarrassment of yet another saga of public rejections and perceptions of paying over the odds for a player then he is not suited to the job. Woodward out.

It appears to be you that haven't read anything.

United want to sign Herrera and his buy out clause is €36million.

Two ways it could go:

1. United bid 36million and Bilbao accept, it is treated as a normal transfer.
2. United bid 36million and Bilbao reject it (no issues, legal or otherwise with them doing so) and thus Herrera/United go to the LFP to activate the clause.

Option 1 is the easiest for United/Herrera - so a bid was made, and has since been rejected.
So now we are looking at completing the deal via option 2, which is what all the papers/press were reporting was the case yesterday. The rejection by Bilbao makes absolutely no difference to the reports from yesterday, nothing has changed.

As to why United are correct, imo, to have bid officially to Bilboa... 1. It is at least the polite and respectful thing to do, be upfront with your intentions and negotiations. 2. If we had just gone the release clause route it would have been an underhanded way of doing business, which would seriously effect our reputation with Bilbao and clubs in Spain, and around the world.

Woodward and United will come in for serious questions if the release clause activation with the LFP falls apart as this, apparently, is the part they have done a lot of research and work on to ensure they get it done correctly in terms of procedures and taxes etc. But right now, there is no indication that is the case. The bid being rejected doesn't reflect poorly on United or Woodward, just on those screaming that it does while not willing to take time to understand the situation.

Zico

It's the player I'm worried about. His price tag at £28m was already questionable and if this gets drawn out and the club end up paying over £30m for a pretty unknown quantity then I fear for him. It's Fellaini all over again and he was joining a familiar coaching set up.

When things are stable at a club then transfers like this aren't terribly disruptive but in our current situation this kind of messing we could well do without and I refuse to believe there was no better way of handling this transfer.

Mitch Connor

Zico wrote: »

It's the player I'm worried about. His price tag at £28m was already questionable and if this gets drawn out and club end up pay over £30m for a pretty unknown quantity then I fear for him. It's Fellaini all over again and he was joining a familiar coaching set up.

When things are stable at a club then transfers like this aren't terribly disruptive but in our current situation this kind of messing we could well do without and I refuse to believe there was no better way of handling this transfer.

So, how would you have dealt with the transfer - including the fact you don't want to spend over 30million on him.

Cookiemunster

Zico wrote: »

It's the player I'm worried about. His price tag at £28m was already questionable and if this gets drawn out and club end up pay over £30m for a pretty unknown quantity then I fear for him. It's Fellaini all over again and he was joining a familiar coaching set up.

When things are stable at a club then transfers like this aren't terribly disruptive but in our current situation this kind of messing we could well do without and I refuse to believe there was no better way of handling this transfer.

Read Mitch's post again. You're the only one not getting this.

MagicIRL

markcahill1985 wrote: »

You do know Bradley doesnt play for Roma anymore?

And he's fairly poor.

john moloney

Well at the moment anything over 25 million is probably too much, I feel sorry for the player to have so much expectation.

Spazdarn

Could they maybe trying to stall it till July to get their extra couple of million?

Cookiemunster

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Could they maybe trying to stall it till July to get their extra couple of million?

If the paperwork has indeed gone into the LFP, then there's nothing Athletic can do.

Zico

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So, how would you have dealt with the transfer - including the fact you don't want to spend over 30million on him.

Buy someone else.

RobertKK

Zico wrote: »

It's the player I'm worried about. His price tag at £28m was already questionable and if this gets drawn out and club end up pay over £30m for a pretty unknown quantity then I fear for him. It's Fellaini all over again and he was joining a familiar coaching set up.

When things are stable at a club then transfers like this aren't terribly disruptive but in our current situation this kind of messing we could well do without and I refuse to believe there was no better way of handling this transfer.

Well, Herrera is going to be appearing in the Spanish team for Euro qualifiers, because he is quality, this won't be another Fellaini situation which was a panic buy.
Comparing Herrera's stats with other top players in midfield he is up there with them, he leaves our current midfielders looking like amateurs.
This is going to be a worthwhile buy as his value and stature in the game is on an upward spiral.
So the transfer is not straightforward but then Bilbao has never been a straightforward club.

kryogen

Zico wrote: »

Buy someone else.

Who?

NeVeR

lads when will Sky / BT Sports etc announce the matches they are showing...

I want to book a trip to see a game but I know a lot of dates / times will change when they set the TV schedule

adox

I can easily understand people frustration. For whatever reason and who evers fault it is, the likes of City and Chelsea are getting deals done in no time, some only come to light when the deal is done, and here we are attempting to sign a player we tried to sign last summer, and which turned out to be one of the biggest embarrassments in the clubs history, and its having some hitches again after being reported widely as good as done a couple of days ago. The Shaw saga is still dragging on as well.

The perception is that Utd are still totally inept at getting deals done, just like last summer.

I`ll believe the Herrara deal is done when its official. I got suckered in a couple of days ago and I wont let it happen again.

beakerjoe

Zico wrote: »

Buy someone else.

LVG wants him and hes available, and you wont do your job and try get him. You'd be worse than your inferior version of Woodward

NTMK

Zico wrote: »

When things are stable at a club then transfers like this aren't terribly disruptive but in our current situation this kind of messing we could well do without and I refuse to believe there was no better way of handling this transfer.

we cant do much else Bilbao dont sell players full stop. only one player has left bilbao for a fee since 2010 and that was a buy-out (martinez). That transfer went through the same mess as this Herrera deal. Bilbao rejected offers like they are now.

My understanding and the understanding of most journos is that we cooled our interest on him after the transfer window and went for mata instead in january

If van gaal suddenly decides he wants him then we're back to square one.

Zico

I really hope the transfer goes through without much more hassle and that this time next year we're all saying what a bargain he turned out to be.

Lucas Hood

NeVeR wrote: »

lads when will Sky / BT Sports etc announce the matches they are showing...

I want to book a trip to see a game but I know a lot of dates / times will change when they set the TV schedule

Mid July.

Maximus Alexander

Zico wrote: »

Buy someone else.

Manchester United fans were pleased today as Ed Woodward released a statement informing them that "it was too much hassle to get the player we really wanted, so we decided to look for easier targets instead." Fans of United are notorious for their appreciation of laziness, epitomized by club legend Dimitar Berbatov.

When asked what were the main stumbling blocks in completing the deal, Woodward replied "There was a smell of effort off it. It's summer time, I've better things to be doing. If someone wants to sell us a player they should send us a fax or something."