Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Brendan Flowers

2moreMinutes wrote: »

Since we now have more signings confirmed than our rivals, which is apparently of great importance, surely that means the drama queens of a few weeks ago are happy?

At least some of those who constantly criticize Woodward have already come out and given him credit for these deals. But isnt funny how some who had a serious vendetta against Woodward aren't even posting here now.

In the last 6 months he's brought in Mata, Herrera and Shaw. And Im sure all the financial deals Ed has completed has gone a long way towards making these big money moves happen. Thumbs up from me for our executive vice-chairman!

ElChe32

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

I've never really got involved in the Nani debate here, mostly because I kinda could easily fall on either side of the arguement. He's that sort of player that divides opinion.

But the point I maintain as what I consider my focus on Nani, is that there is simply to many excuses for him.

He's either being played out of position, or the most notible one is he is not getting a run of games.

At some point, what started as an excuse as to why Nani has had SOME patchy form, has become the main excuse as to the alerting demise of what at one point was the best winger operating in Europe bar none.

1 Two managers have felt that Antonio Valencia, Ashley Young and an untried, untested 18 year old Belgian who is actually a no.10, were superior in selection to Nani.

While I do agree that Nani has shown great flashes of ability down the year, and on occasion had succesfull runs, I think we need to stop using the excuse of " he needs a run of games".

2 Sorry, but playing for a club of United stature, you simply can't be afforded to start five games, in the hope you'll hit form for games 6,7,8 , slide back into your mediocirity then come out again.

Nani has serious issues with consistency. He always has massive issues with decision making, and can be pretty abject in the final third. This is something, unlike Ronaldo, he never shook off in his developement, and is still there.

3For every one game he does well, there is about five that are pretty rubbish.

3for ever five minutes of genius and genuine game changing ability, there is 85 minutes of losing the ball, wayward crosses and dilly dallying.

Sorry but at this point the Nani defence looks somewhat obscured, by turning an excuse into a stark defence for Nani.

You only need to go back to the initial point. Why does he not get a run of games?

And I think you will find the answer pretty much lies why his future is in question, and why he has failed to nail himself down as a critical component to this club.

The Nani defence simply makes no sense anymore.

It's the same sort of stuff the Torres defenders come out with, who are widely considered 100% clinically insane. And it's just harbouring for a level of play that once existed, that hasn't showed a glimpse of returning for a long long time.

1 Those two managers also thought that Valencia was deserving of being one of the first names on the team sheet for United. The value of their opinion on wingers should be doubted, not held up as evidence of who is a good or bad winger.

2 He doesn't need to start 5 games before he hits form, he usually hits form sometime in the first three games, like the vast majority of players. He definitely doesn't drop back out of form any more regularly than the average PL player. His form, and how it waxes and wanes, is just like the vast majority of players in the top leagues. The vast majority of players struggle when they're in and out of a team. But because there is a myth about Nani being inconsistent, that normal flow of form, is held up of proof of something.

3 Both of these points are complete fabrications.

Pro. F

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Nani performed amazingly one season in seven. Didn't do a whole lot before that season, has done even less since.

From lazy wikipedia research, it appears he's scored about 40 goals in 220 games for United... for an attacking player that shoots as often as he does, is
this enough?

Nani performed excellently in two and a half seasons out of seven, not one. Before those seasons he hadn't yet been a regular starter at the club. He was almost permanently ignored/injured in the two most recent seasons. So you are wrong about how many seasons he has done well and there are very straight forward explanations for why he didn't do a whole lot in the other seasons.

Nani doesn't shoot any more often than most wingers. If you disagree then show evidence.

ToiletFusion wrote: »

The argument began with a defence that he could be great if he got a run. He's had runs for club and country and done nothing with them. The world cup, is a short run of games for everybody. Every player there has to perform within said amount of games, hardly a valid argument that he could be so much better if he more games. There are plenty of lesser skilled players at the tournament with less game time coming into the tournament, doing far more... so that doesn't really cut it.

15 appearances 2 goals for his country in the last 2 years... added to his United statistics.

He's been out injured and unplayed for the majority of this season. His national team are a bit of a mess at this tournament with all of the players having a mixed bag of a tournament. In those circumstances it is ridiculous to use that as proof that Nani is lacking something.

When has he had a run of games for his club and done nothing?

unplayable

great few days to be a utd fan.

need a center back and another midfielder and we are sorted then.

Pro. F

Shaw and Hererra deals both official. Now I'm ready

Billy86

Mitch Connor wrote: »

those 2, and a cb (even VErmalen) would be an amazing summer, imo.

No no no no no. I would prefer Carrick at CB to Vermaelen.

Cookiemunster

Pro. F wrote: »

Shaw and Hererra deals both official. Now I'm ready

Nothing on the website or official twitter yet, so I think the news sites slightly jumping the gun. Not that I doubt it's true.

Maximus Alexander

irishfeen wrote: »

Haha he wasn't long changing his twitter account

Same happened with Herrera. There must be a social media person at the club who changes it for them the second they sign or something.

ician

Ohhhhhhhhhhh yeah!!! Lucio Shaw!

Sgt Pepper 64

Nice piece on Hererra, even if it is goal.com. Should do well for ya

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/transfer-zone/2014/06/27/4916219/-

Pro. F

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Nothing on the website or official twitter yet, so I think the news sites slightly jumping the gun. Not that I doubt it's true.

It's on the BBC site. I don't think they announce signings before they've been told by the club. They're probably just quicker publishing a web page.

irishfeen

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Same happened with Herrera. There must be a social media person at the club who changes it for them the second they sign or something.

Yeah the slight delay could also be Luke himself coming up with a statement to Southamton fc/fans.

Lord TSC

Sky and BBC seemed to have been briefed that it's done but jumped the gun. It's done, lads

user2011

advertsfox

glued

A LB and a CM?

Adamocovic

I think the fact that Shaw and Herrera signed is a glowing testament to what the reputation of a Manager can do. I know Man United has a great reputation and players want to play there because of the history but it helps having a manager who is proven.

I felt that Moyes was unlucky considering this was his first time managing a Champions League club, he seemed to get the backlash for poor performances from the media because of his inexperience. Some players abroad didn't know much of Moyes and didn't fancy a move. I feel bad for him but todays football doesn't give you much time to make an impact and media can have a huge say.

With Van Gaal you have a manager who is proven and known around the world for his achievements, this can help attract players who would want to play under a manager with such a reputation.

So far signing Herrara to me was bigger business than Shaw. Shaw is a quality player but Herrara will be great to slot in the midfield. Great tackler and good in possession. Hopefully we can sign a centre back and maybe a winger and sell off some players.

Too early to get too optimistic but I can imagine Van Gaal's approach in the dressing room is more like Sir Alex's in the way that he won't be afraid to let the players know what he's thinking and he should deman great respect of them. Can't wait for next season, interesting times ahead.

MagicIRL

Paragraphs Adam, paragraphs.

How Soon Is Now

Chagan wrote: »

I have been completely out of the loop for the last 24 hours. Imagine my delight when I went on Facebook this afternoon and saw Herrera and Bobby posing for pictures.

Of course, I immediately jumped across to here to see the reaction and I'm greeted with the news that Shaw is done aswell!

You win!

Maximus Alexander

For the first time that I can remember, I haven't heard a single murmur about infighting in the Dutch squad at this World Cup. Van Gaal's doing?

Mitch Connor

Adamocovic wrote: »

I think the fact that Shaw and Herrera signed is a glowing testament to what the reputation of a Manager can do.

Herrera wanted to sign for United last summer, when Moyes was in charge, and was gutted when it fell through.

Shaw was persuaded to sign for United when Moyes was still in charge.

I do think LVG will be better able to help with signings due to his rep, but I don't think these two signings are suitable proof.

Mr_Red

Adamocovic

MagicIRL wrote: »

Paragraphs Adam, paragraphs.

I'll try improve next time Sir. Seeing the team making good signings this early has me frazzled.

How Soon Is Now

Adamocovic wrote: »

I'll try improve next time Sir. Seeing the team making good signings this early has me frazzled.

Your grand the way you are! Haha It's nice not being the only one who constantly gets picked up on how they type! :-)

kstand

Some top drawer gifs again today, well done all.

Adamocovic

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Herrera wanted to sign for United last summer, when Moyes was in charge, and was gutted when it fell through.

Shaw was persuaded to sign for United when Moyes was still in charge.

I do think LVG will be better able to help with signings due to his rep, but I don't think these two signings are suitable proof.

True that the foundations were made but a lot of sources were saying some players were waiting to see who would be manager for next season. I imagine appointing Van Gaal sealed the deal for them.

GSPfan

Does anyone think its possible Evra could form part of a back 3 next season?

He wouldn't have to get up and down the pitch at all.

I just think Hollands current formation is ideal for us at the moment. With RVP and Rooney up top and Mata behind them.

kstand

Trying to mentally picture what this place will be like if Vidal is signed.

irishfeen

Poor old Southampton getting an awful bating today as pool have got their man too - Shaw is a great signing and hopefully we have a few shocks yet in this window

Adamocovic

Would like to see Jones get a season in centre back. Think he could do much better if he wasn't moved around as much.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

1 Those two managers also thought that Valencia was deserving of being one of the first names on the team sheet for United. The value of their opinion on wingers should be doubted, not held up as evidence of who is a good or bad winger.

2 He doesn't need to start 5 games before he hits form, he usually hits form sometime in the first three games, like the vast majority of players. He definitely doesn't drop back out of form any more regularly than the average PL player. His form, and how it waxes and wanes, is just like the vast majority of players in the top leagues. The vast majority of players struggle when they're in and out of a team. But because there is a myth about Nani being inconsistent, that normal flow of form, is held up of proof of something.

3 Both of these points are complete fabrications.

Obviously point three isn't science, but not fabrications, exaggeration to make the point.

If anyone took me at face value putting a fixed number on the games he does well and then does poorly in, to be honest I don't think I should need to be explaining those things.

But as it seems to be a point of contention for a number of responses now, I'd like to clarify I do not believe, nor assumed as factual, that Nani plays one bad game followed by five bad games. I was trying to exaggerate the point that he has a good game and then can just as quickly revert to muck.

I just don't buy into this "he needs a run of games to be good".

This is an arguement being put forward as it's the obvious answer to why Nani hasn't lighted up OT as he might should have.

I just don't it holds any weight.

Lovely Bloke

GSPfan wrote: »

Does anyone think its possible Evra could form part of a back 3 next season?

:eek:

Maximus Alexander

NTMK

GSPfan wrote: »

Does anyone think its possible Evra could form part of a back 3 next season?

He wouldn't have to get up and down the pitch at all.

I just think Hollands current formation is ideal for us at the moment. With RVP and Rooney up top and Mata behind them.

What as in 3 CBs in the 5-3-2-> 3-5-2 system

I dont know if hes strong enough tbh

Adamocovic

I imagine a clean out of players will soon follow

goodolegill

Wow - we have bought an exciting english player that has the potential to be world class
He has played a few games for england and has shone when he has played against us.
His lack of experience and achievements count for nothing over the fact
he has the "potential" to be a regular for 15 years.
We have probably overpaid but potential potential potential

Looking forward to seeing Shaw (Zaha) in preseason

redbaron_99

GSPfan wrote: »

Does anyone think its possible Evra could form part of a back 3 next season?

He wouldn't have to get up and down the pitch at all.

I just think Hollands current formation is ideal for us at the moment. With RVP and Rooney up top and Mata behind them.

No.

Maximus Alexander

Adamocovic wrote: »

I imagine a clean out of players will soon follow

Fully expect Anderson and Young to disappear at minimum.

NTMK

Adamocovic wrote: »

I imagine a clean out of players will soon follow

Doubt we'll have a huge clean out until next season tbh we'll still need squad players

I see a couple of them going i.e anderson

young will probably stay

Adamocovic

Would love to see Zaha and Powell given chances next season, really disappointed we put them out on loan last season.

TheDoc

It's like when your Ma and Da go away for holidays and leave you a bit of money to spend on milk, bread and essentials for the week, and you go absolutely mental the first two days ordering in pizza and buying bags of jellies

Gwan Ed you mad thing

Adamocovic

Going to be interesting how he lines out the midfield and forwards, if Vidal is brought in even more competition along with Herrara and maybe Powell and Zaha.

Billy86

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Shaw was persuaded to sign for United when Moyes was still in charge.

?

ericzeking

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Fully expect Anderson and Young to disappear at minimum.

Disappear eh? Sounds quite sinister...... I suppose we do have Ed The Equaliser on board, he might take Ando and Young for a drive in the mountains on a fine summers day.....

GSPfan

NTMK wrote: »

What as in 3 CBs in the 5-3-2-> 3-5-2 system

I dont know if hes strong enough tbh

Yeah. I only suggest it due to the current Dutch formation and the fact we need more centre halves. He is very very dependable when it comes to injuries unlike all our other defenders.

Mitch Connor

Billy86 wrote: »

?

whats the question?

The deal to sign shaw has been in process for AGES, and according to reports he was persuaded to sign for United by Moyes. Moyes has been key to this signing.

Mitch Connor

GSPfan wrote: »

Yeah. I only suggest it due to the current Dutch formation and the fact we need more centre halves. He is very very dependable when it comes to injuries unlike all our other defenders.

He isn't very dependable when it comes to defending though. He is good going forward. Taking the attacking part out of his game would render him fairly useless.

irishfeen

Amazing how the BBC are going with it as complete but still no official confirmation from the club.

Adamocovic

Andre Ayew has been linked with a move to United too, that makes me think if he is coming there's a winger considering moving. Hope I'm wrong but could be Nani.