Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Rayne Wooney

....................DDG................
.......Jones..Smalling..Evans...
...............Ander...Carrick.........
....Valencia.....Mata.........Shaw...
..............Rooney...RVP...............


I like the look of that, we will buy a more experienced defender to replace one of the back 3 there. If Van Gaal can get Valencia back on form him and Shaw as wing backs could be very good.

Kylo Ren

"They overpaid for Shaw"

"Herrera doesn't even have a cap for Spain"

Shhhhhh now children....

ElChe32

kstand wrote: »

Trying to mentally picture what this place will be like if Vidal is signed.

I hereby swear to perform this dance (down O'Connell Street) should Vidal sign.

sky88

the sadness of Valencia signing a new contract seems like years ago

so happy:D

NTMK

GSPfan wrote: »

Yeah. I only suggest it due to the current Dutch formation and the fact we need more centre halves. He is very very dependable when it comes to injuries unlike all our other defenders.

I agree but i have questions over his ability to play CB, i dont think he has the physical abilty or the height to play that system

I would also assume since van gaal didnt want rio that he wont be using that system as we would realistically need 2 more CB since ours seem so injury prone

bangkok

pogba please to replace carrick.....just think about it, another Patrick viera in the centre midfield for united for the next 10 years

Zico

Adamocovic wrote: »

I imagine a clean out of players will soon follow

Definitely or at least a lot going out on loan. We've got a squad of about 35ish with 20 or so full internationals, that's too many when we've no european games.

TheDoc

HAHA 30m for Shaw

Really, are you really going down this route

30m for him, that's rubbish, smacks of desperation. Only a season under his belt. Mental.

Andy Carroll

Oh will you **** off

On our Kakao thread, A Pool mate with a short memory

TheDoc

sky88 wrote: »

the sadness of Valencia signing a new contract seems like years ago

so happy:D

Valencia could be the ying to Nani's yang.

Play Valencia once a month and he'll be absolutely outrageous.
Play inbetween so he gets his games and is amazing

Winger problem sorted.

Maximus Alexander

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Obviously point three isn't science, but not fabrications, exaggeration to make the point.

If anyone took me at face value putting a fixed number on the games he does well and then does poorly in, to be honest I don't think I should need to be explaining those things.

But as it seems to be a point of contention for a number of responses now, I'd like to clarify I do not believe, nor assumed as factual, that Nani plays one bad game followed by five bad games. I was trying to exaggerate the point that he has a good game and then can just as quickly revert to muck.

Well that exaggeration was quite close to the usual criticisms of Nani so it's hard to tell it apart when it was in the middle of a post that seemed to be written to make a serious point.

TheDoc wrote: »

I just don't buy into this "he needs a run of games to be good".

This is an arguement being put forward as it's the obvious answer to why Nani hasn't lighted up OT as he might should have.

I just don't it holds any weight.

No, that is not the reason the argument is being put forward. Nani has lit up Old Trafford as he should have and more so. He has been an excellent player when given a chance. When not given a chance he hasn't done much. That is normal.

You are making out that it is unusual or unacceptable that a player would need consistent games to produce consistent form, but it is not. It is perfectly normal and it is same for the vast majority of players, including at United. The vast majority of players don't perform at their best when taken in and out of the team, ie when not given a chance. But when Nani has the same problems it is held up as a sign of some sort of mental defect.

The reason Nani needing consistent games is pointed out in these debates is not because it's a special requirement of a peculiar player, but because the people criticising him have ignored how game-time and form works for the vast majority of players.

The_Kew_Tour

bangkok wrote: »

pogba please to replace carrick.....just think about it, another Patrick viera in the centre midfield for united for the next 10 years

Billy86

NTMK wrote: »

Doubt we'll have a huge clean out until next season tbh we'll still need squad players

I see a couple of them going i.e anderson

young will probably stay

Not really, this season we only have 38 league games and 1-6 FA Cup games. Also the League cup but that's just an irrelevance to give young players a run out for the most part. So really 44 meaningful games, max.

We currently have

DDG, Lindegaard, Amos
Evans, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Evra, Shaw, Varela
Carrick, Fletcher, Herrera, Fellaini, Anderson, Cleverley, Powell
Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Lingaard, Nani, Valencia, Young,
RVP, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Wilson

That is 32 players with a CB, CM and possibly WF still to come in... way too much, even with some going on loan. I would like or expect to see Young, Nani, Anderson, Fellaini all gone (and reckon Chech is finished here too, sadly). Lingaard, Zaha and one of Wilson/Henriquez sent on loan with another here for the league cup games and maybe going out in Jan. Fletcher is going to be really peripheral, and Cleverley too in a "prove it" season (or gone if a good offer comes in). Welbeck is going to be moving towards the hot seat I reckon this year, and Rooney if he tries his same old bulls***. I personally would have got rid of Valencia top but oh well.

Do that, buy the CB and CM and I'll be delighted with the summer and the direction our squad would be headed.

Copper_pipe

I'm told Luke Shaw to Man Utd deal will be announced in around 15 mins by the clubs. #MuFC #Saints

Amy Lewis from sky sports news tweeted that...

Adamocovic

Any talks of United overpaying is ridiculous at 18 he could have a 10+ years career with United and if so money well spent.

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

pogba please to replace carrick.....just think about it, another Patrick viera in the centre midfield for united for the next 10 years

He's not really that similar to Vieira though.

Sgt Pepper 64

Adamocovic wrote: »

Any talks of United overpaying is ridiculous at 18 he could have a 10+ years career with United and if so money well spent.

He'll stay with you for 3 years and then sign for his boyhood dream club

Mr_Red

Billy86 wrote: »

DDG, Lindegaard, Amos
Evans, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Evra, Shaw, Varela
Carrick, Fletcher, Herrera, Fellaini, Anderson, Cleverley, Powell
Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Nani, Valencia, Young,
RVP, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Wilson

I would like to see the following players gone ( In Red )

Adamocovic

I can see Lindegaard, Nani, Young, Hernandez, Anderson and Cleverly going. Not saying I want them to leave but I reckon 4-5 big enough players on the team will be sold in order to bring in the new guys.

Maximus Alexander

Billy86 wrote: »

He's not really that similar to Vieira though.

They're both black, French and play football. Practically twins.

Adamocovic

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

He'll stay with you for 3 years and then sign for his boyhood dream club

Thanks always nice to hear from someone close to player to give us a better insight in what he's doing.

Paul Tergat

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

He'll stay with you for 3 years and then sign for his boyhood dream club

He's at a bigger club already

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Well that exaggeration was quite close to the usual criticisms of Nani so it's hard to tell it apart when it was in the middle of a post that seemed to be written to make a serious point.



No, that is not the reason the argument is being put forward. Nani has lit up Old Trafford as he should have and more so. He has been an excellent player when given a chance. When not given a chance he hasn't done much. That is normal.

You are making out that it is unusual or unacceptable that a player would need consistent games to produce consistent form, but it is not. It is perfectly normal and it is same for the vast majority of players, including at United. The vast majority of players don't perform at their best when taken in and out of the team, ie when not given a chance. But when Nani has the same problems it is held up as a sign of some sort of mental defect.

The reason Nani needing consistent games is pointed out in these debates is not because it's a special requirement of a peculiar player, but because the people criticising him have ignored how game-time and form works for the vast majority of players.

But I guess my look on it, is that his form obviously dipped while he was playing regularly. Unless maybe he got an injury and couldnt get himself back into the team.

He wasn't hooked from the squad while he was at the top of his game.

And I guess I look at the situation, in that he simply isn't taking the chances he is getting. It's all well and good saying he deserves a run of games, but if those appearances arnt proving dividends, a manager will have a tough call persisting with him.

But as I said earlier, the more I'm typing these posts the more I'm conflicting with myself, and debating it all in my own head. Cause I think didn't RVP hit a pretty barren spell last season, by his standards, yet Fergie persisted hoping he'd catch a break and he did.

Rooney hits his barren spells and out of form stuff and we usually persist with him. So I would concede that Nani might not be getting a fair craic of the whip, in getting some leeway in terms of appreciating his form needs some matches.

I also conceed, although was never disputing, that players require gametime to get into top form. But my point of arguement was that when you are chasing titles, you have to make tough calls on carrying a passenger, or going with someone showing more promise in training perhaps, or maybe when the pros and cons are weighed up, someone else comes out ahead. Like I don't know the thought process of managers, but if you weighed up Valencia v Nani at a very high level, you might end up with something that reads

"Valencia will give me guaranteed energy and work rate, keeping to his defensive duties"
"Nani might win me the game. Might".

I think you go with the definitives over the mights.

I think this is why I havn't jumped in with both feet on previous Nani debates, I changed my mind literally as I type on points I'm making on him. I'm going to bow out of it now. I'm just not definitive on him, I've never advocated his sale, I rate him higher then Young and Valencia, I just wonder if maybe what we say in that sensational year was as good as it gets for Nani, and won't be that again.

I'd hope that he would stay to see what happens under LVG, and sure if its not working go in January or summer. One of the noticable benefits of him is his pace and tempo, which was sorely missed in a rather lethargic attack last season.

bucketybuck

I just don't buy into this "he needs a run of games to be good".

Every. Single. Player performs better when given a consistent starting place in the team, for incredibly obvious reasons. This is a universal truth regarding footballers, really very basic.

Nani does not get a consistent run of games, he gets start here, a sub appearance there.

Three seasons ago, when Nani was given a consistent run of games he delivered the goods.

Ergo, you get calls for Nani to be given a consistent run of games. I really don't see what is so hard to understand here.

beakerjoe

Mr_Red wrote: »

DDG, Lindegaard, Amos
Evans, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Evra, Shaw, Varela
Carrick, Fletcher, Herrera, Fellaini, Anderson, Cleverley, Powell
Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Nani, Valencia, Young,
RVP, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Wilson

I would like to see the following players gone ( In Red )

Fletcher is on the way out yes

Felliani should be given time under a new manager to re capture the form we bought him on

Anderson Im guessing will be gone

Cleverly : I dont think hes a top player and is only being kept because he is home grown.

Valencia : new contract, aint going no where yet

Young : Big wages, be hard to get rid of. I agree, he should be gone

Rooney : Its a big season for him, hasnt performed at another big tournie and it will be interesting to see how him and LVG get on. Should have been sold last year but he has the talent to succeed, we have stuck with him so lets have faith in him

Mr_Red

David Moyes in Galatasaray talks as Turkish side eye him as replacement for Roberto Mancini

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/david-moyes-galatasaray-talks-turkish-3775509#ixzz35qa0R6UU

beakerjoe

bucketybuck wrote: »

Every. Single. Player performs better when given a consistent starting place in the team, for incredibly obvious reasons. This is a universal truth regarding footballers, really very basic.

Nani does not get a consistent run of games, he gets start here, a sub appearance there.

Three seasons ago, when Nani was given a consistent run of games he delivered the goods.

Ergo, you get calls for Nani to be given a consistent run of games. I really don't see what is so hard to understand here.

Thats not true. Every player can perform bad or good regardless of getting starts.

EuropeanSon

Adamocovic wrote: »

Any talks of United overpaying is ridiculous at 18 he could have a 10+ years career with United and if so money well spent.

And if not?

Buying players always comes with a risk that they don't work out. With an 18 year old with one good season behind him that risk is higher than usual.

I'd have thought £30m would be a steep enough price for a guarantee of sorting the left back slot out for the foreseeable future. Not a bargain, but maybe an acceptable price. The fact that there a fairly big risk of it not working out (due to him being so young and only having the one good season behind him) means they've overpaid IMO.

Paying a near world record fee for that position for a teenager is never going to be considered a bargain.

UnitedIrishman

Seeing as we're quite top heavy, the players I'd sell if possible would be Valencia, Young, Henriquez, Hernandez.

Realistically can see Young, Hernandez goimg anyways along with at least couple of others. Possibly even Kagawa.

TheTownie

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

He'll stay with you for 3 years and then sign for his boyhood dream club

TheDoc

Billy86 wrote: »

DDG, Lindegaard, Amos
Evans, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Evra, Shaw, Varela
Carrick, Fletcher, Herrera, Fellaini, Anderson, Cleverley, Powell
Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha, Lingaard, Nani, Valencia, Young,
RVP, Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Wilson

Red is what I wouldn't be upset at leaving
Orange is what I feel I'd be torn over if they left

All assuming adequate replacements sourced and acquired, and that squad had the numbers to cope. Although I think we can get by this year with a smaller squad for obvious reasons.

Having to get back into the top 4 won't see much room for experimentation, and no midweek game means no rotation for resting.

secman

I am sure LVG is going to give everyone an opportunity to prove themselves. Looking forward to seeing how all the players react and play..... hopefully LVG will have a headache when picking his first 11....... but there again as we saw with Netherlands. he picks horses for courses.... just might suit the squad if they all think they have a role to play.

Don't think Ed is finished with the cheque book, still thjink we might have a couple of more in's and maybe a few more out's........roll on

Secman

IvySlayer

paulbok

ElChe32 wrote: »

I hereby swear to perform this dance (down O'Connell Street) should Vidal sign.

We'll organise a few floats for O'Connell St and have a St Patricks Ed's day parade.:D

Billy86

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

He'll stay with you for 3 years and then sign for his boyhood dream club

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

I really don't see what is so hard to understand here.

I'm not disputing that statement. I am fully aware that players require games to get their peak form. I'm simply asking is there maybe some other factors we arn't considering.

If it was as simple as playing him for a few games and he would be back at that blistering form, I think we would see that.

Therefore I don't think it's as simple as that, and it's possible Nani has either regressed, or struggling to capture past form that's viewable in perhaps training, which we arn't privy too.

Nani in that top form of old, is worth the wait. I just don't think the fix is as simple as play him, and he will be back to his best. I really don't.

Every player is different of course, but some players have no problems coming back into the game immediately and firing on all cyclinders, some do, thats fine.

I just think if it was a simple as that, it would have happened, and be happening. That's the part I don't understand really.

Adamocovic

EuropeanSon wrote: »

And if not?

Buying players always comes with a risk that they don't work out. With an 18 year old with one good season behind him that risk is higher than usual.

I'd have thought £30m would be a steep enough price for a guarantee of sorting the left back slot out for the foreseeable future. Not a bargain, but maybe an acceptable price. The fact that there a fairly big risk of it not working out (due to him being so young and only having the one good season behind him) means they've overpaid IMO.

Paying a near world record fee for that position for a teenager is never going to be considered a bargain.

Valid opinion and no one will know until his career is over whether or not the move works but my opinion is i'd rather spend 30 million on a left back with huge potential and under 20 than buy a short term fix of a 27-28 year old left back at 15-20 million .

Iseedeadpixels

It's weird we haven't signed a player thats not needed yet......

Unearthly

So we have LVG as manager, and signed Herrera and Shaw?

TheDoc

As an example, and it's just me spitballing here, but Nani to me has always had questionable judgement of what to do with a football, and he's nearly one of those players who's best when everything is at 100mph and decided in a flash, rather then things being slower and him having to make a conscious decision.

When we were playing that more electric football with the likes of Tevez, Ronaldo, Rooney and co where things happened really fast on the break, Nani was able to be a part of that.

I'm wondering is there maybe something coaches and managers feel, that Nani cannot operate effectively in a system that is a bit more possesion based and clinical.

We were A LOT slower last season in possesion and it was noticable that Nani struggled a bit when he played. I can recall some instances where he stopped the pace to a walk, loads of touches, to send of a tiny sort pass and then not really move anywhere to get it back in a better position.

Just a thought, but maybe he's most effective when the game is high tempo and breaking style football, as opposed to intricute possesion based football?

Jsut a thought by the way, can't actually base this on anything, bar trying to think of alternatives to the point of him not getting a proper run out

Billy86

EuropeanSon wrote: »

And if not?

Buying players always comes with a risk that they don't work out. With an 18 year old with one good season behind him that risk is higher than usual.

I'd have thought £30m would be a steep enough price for a guarantee of sorting the left back slot out for the foreseeable future. Not a bargain, but maybe an acceptable price. The fact that there a fairly big risk of it not working out (due to him being so young and only having the one good season behind him) means they've overpaid IMO.

Paying a near world record fee for that position for a teenager is never going to be considered a bargain.

bangkok

shaw done deal now on twitter

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/482524150326890496/photo/1

newballsplease

Its official....
The bird is in the nest. I repeat, the bird is in the nest!

Double C

Shaws signing is official

FutureGuy

Signs that United are on the way back.

Certain posters return to the United forum.

:-D

TheTownie

irishfeen

Official now from United.

user2011

pic

fatherted1969

Brilliant news if Shaw is confirmed, just a question though for anyone that has seen a lot of him. When Spurs bought Bale i remember him starting out at full back, can anyone see anything in Shaw that suggests he may move out into a wing position in midfield.

Great credit due to Moyes on these deals as i'm convinced the bulk of them were in place in his tenure. Exciting times

beakerjoe

I dont even think the news of these signings is worth a gif yet til i see how we do with them, but it is positive news and sure why not.....