Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Billy86

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Carrick is a very limited player these days. We need to moving on from the days of him being a main man in there. He slows the play down when the ball is played to him.

He was one of the best players in the league in 12/13, possibly even the best if you value of sisterly over peak performance. He didn't go to the dogs altogether in the space of one summer, the problem, as with so many things, was Moyes being utterly useless.

Essentially he wanted our attacking players high up the pitch but our backline deep, ran Rio into the ground as early as possible (which is why he regressed so quickly by Halloween) and expected the two midfielders to cover anything and everything g in between... often a vast expanse of space. One of those mids was typically Cleverly or Fellaini, neither being up to the task of playing at Utd and the other was Carrick.

Carrick has never been a great athlete. Carrick has never covered large areas of space. Carrick has never been an "all action" type. Moyes literally played away from every one of Carrick strengths and played in to all of his weaknesses, as only Moyes could.

There is no way LvG will make this same mistake, given his tactical nous. Carrick will be playing back at the base of a 433 (if as expected Louis continues to use his favourite system) slowing down opposition breaks and closing down passing lanes while being controlled and reliable in possession, helping g us gain composure on the ball in otherwise panicky situations before moving it forward.

He will be 33 this season so is now getting on, but he is still fine for that role especially as we have less games to play and gives additional stability in what is looking like a time of mass upheaval. There is no point focusing on switching him around until/unless more pressing issues like CB or WF (and or what to do with our having an excess of players up there to begin with) have been addressed.

Larry Wildman

Phil Jones should be given a prolonged run at centre half. He was like a young Nemanja Vidic at Blackburn. Since then, we've messed him around and stifled his development by playing him virtually everywhere except his best position. He's now suffering from a condition known as "John O'Shea-itis" - Jack of all trades and master of none. We haven't been fair to the guy at all in terms of his development. I am convinced that he is the best centre half at the club.

Whatsisname

James Ducker ‏@DuckerTheTimes 27s
Alexander Buttner's transfer from #mufc to Dynamo Moscow to be formally completed/announced shortly. Fee is €5.5m rising to €7m

How did Woody pull off €7m for Buttner? :pac:

Lord TSC

That's some awesome business for a fringe player who wanted out

redbaron_99

Billy86 wrote: »

He was one of the best players in the league in 12/13, possibly even the best if you value of sisterly over peak performance. He didn't go to the dogs altogether in the space of one summer, the problem, as with so many things, was Moyes being utterly useless.

Essentially he wanted our attacking players high up the pitch but our backline deep, ran Rio into the ground as early as possible (which is why he regressed so quickly by Halloween) and expected the two midfielders to cover anything and everything g in between... often a vast expanse of space. One of those mids was typically Cleverly or Fellaini, neither being up to the task of playing at Utd and the other was Carrick.

Carrick has never been a great athlete. Carrick has never covered large areas of space. Carrick has never been an "all action" type. Moyes literally played away from every one of Carrick strengths and played in to all of his weaknesses, as only Moyes could.

There is no way LvG will make this same mistake, given his tactical nous. Carrick will be playing back at the base of a 433 (if as expected Louis continues to use his favourite system) slowing down opposition breaks and closing down passing lanes while being controlled and reliable in possession, helping g us gain composure on the ball in otherwise panicky situations before moving it forward.

He will be 33 this season so is now getting on, but he is still fine for that role especially as we have less games to play and gives additional stability in what is looking like a time of mass upheaval. There is no point focusing on switching him around until/unless more pressing issues like CB or WF (and or what to do with our having an excess of players up there to begin with) have been addressed.

All very nice, but he hasn't got the legs, and is hitting 33, and increasingly over the last 3 years (before moyes) his passing is becoming more and more restricted.
It's time to move on. Carrick has had his time.

TheTownie

Whatsisname wrote: »

How did Woody pull off €7m for Buttner? :pac:

Its all in the formula.

Phase 1: Sign Buttner
Phase 2: ??????
Phase 3: Profit

Fuhrer

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Phil Jones should be given a prolonged run at centre half. He was like a young Nemanja Vidic at Blackburn. Since then, we've messed him around and stifled his development by playing him virtually everywhere except his best position. He's now suffering from a condition known as "John O'Shea-itis" - Jack of all trades and master of none. We haven't been fair to the guy at all in terms of his development. I am convinced that he is the best centre half at the club.

Yeah, a De Gea type situation where either the pressure makes him or breaks him.

Larry Wildman

That's a nice bit of business re Buttner if it's true.

A likeable wholehearted lad...I wish him well.

The_Kew_Tour

Ed>Gill

FutureGuy

From this day forward, it shall be called

Buttnerday

Rejoice!

Billy86

redbaron_99 wrote: »

All very nice, but he hasn't got the legs, and is hitting 33, and increasingly over the last 3 years (before moyes) his passing is becoming more and more restricted.
It's time to move on. Carrick has had his time.

He never had the legs, so there isn't really much substance to that point. His game has always been much more focused on positioning.

His passing became more restricted the moment Moyes walked into and drilled the word "caution" into every players minds, with a particular emphasis on there being zero forward movement whatsoever when we were holding the lead in a game. His passing was not becoming more restricted before that at all, and as mentioned he was arguably the best player in the whole league the season before Moyes walked in.

He is going 33, but his role is not based on athleticism and never was under Ferguson (Moyes wanted him to rely on his athleticism over everything else... such was his footballing genius). He is absolutely fine for this year, and there is certainly no point looking towards replacing him until we get other positional sorted, which are far more pressing.

Lucas Hood

Said it before but I'd like Joel Ward signed as back up, he can play right across the back 4 and even in cm.

UnitedIrishman

That's some damn fine Chief Exec work there Eddy.

Mikeyt086

Talksport saying we have agreed a deal with Feyenoord for De Vrij.

Billy86

Getting that money for Buttner puts Mata/Shaw/Herrera to sham! :pac:

Jones at CB worries me though, personally. We definitely need to focus him on one position and stop this moving around lark, but for my money a DM/box to box/workhorse CM role might be his best. His positional and anticipation play has always been extremely suspect at Man Utd, he has a tendency to make a lot of errors, and when he plays in defence we have tended to concede a lot more I think I remember reading an article on before Ferguson retired (think it was in response to his "could be the best ever here" comment). He's still young so that stuff is all coach able and tends to improve with experience but I would not want to be relying on him coming good at CB this year as a starter by any means.

TheTownie

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Talksport saying we have agreed a deal with Feyenoord for De Vrij.

Source is Corriere dello Sport article.

Backstreet Moyes

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Phil Jones should be given a prolonged run at centre half. He was like a young Nemanja Vidic at Blackburn. Since then, we've messed him around and stifled his development by playing him virtually everywhere except his best position. He's now suffering from a condition known as "John O'Shea-itis" - Jack of all trades and master of none. We haven't been fair to the guy at all in terms of his development. I am convinced that he is the best centre half at the club.

Jones had still has lots of potential but he is not close to being the best cb at the club. I would like to see him given a shot but at the moment Evans is far superior.

duffman13

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Said it before but I'd like Joel Ward signed as back up, he can play right across the back 4 and even in cm.

He's versatile at a certain level, not at Uniteds!!

RobertKK

I am going to keep this rumour going for as long as possible... :P

Sport Witness ‏@Sport_Witness 19h Claims in Spain today that Manchester United are still providing competition to La Liga's big two for Toni Kroos.


Today being yesterday for that tweet.

edit to add, if at Bayern Munich, there are only three teams that aren't a step down from Bayern Munich.

Larry Wildman

Nuts102 wrote: »

Jones had still has lots of potential but he is not close to being the best cb at the club. I would like to see him given a shot but at the moment Evans is far superior.

Sorry, just to clarify I mean that if all of out centre halves were given a prolonged run, I think that Phil Jones would emerge as the best.

Right now, I agree that Jonny Evans is the best. I think that Jones has been wasted.

redbaron_99

Billy86 wrote: »

He never had the legs, so there isn't really much substance to that point. His game has always been much more focused on positioning.

His passing became more restricted the moment Moyes walked into and drilled the word "caution" into every players minds, with a particular emphasis on there being zero forward movement whatsoever when we were holding the lead in a game. His passing was not becoming more restricted before that at all, and as mentioned he was arguably the best player in the whole league the season before Moyes walked in.

He is going 33, but his role is not based on athleticism and never was under Ferguson (Moyes wanted him to rely on his athleticism over everything else... such was his footballing genius). He is absolutely fine for this year, and there is certainly no point looking towards replacing him until we get other positional sorted, which are far more pressing.

I was going to give you a reasonable response until I read this part.
Delusional.

Backstreet Moyes

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Sorry, just to clarify I mean that if all of out centre halves were given a prolonged run, I think that Phil Jones would emerge as the best.

Right now, I agree that Jonny Evans is the best. I think that Jones has been wasted.

Jones and Smalling have both been wasted they should both have been ready to take over from Rio and Vidic. Instead both are still raw and i hope LVG trusts the two of them along with Evans next season and see if they are good enough.

DM_7

With signings and links I hope some of the young players are kept until January at least to work with van Gaal. I am specifically talking about the four younger players with the most league experience, Zaha, Powell, Lingard and Michael Keane, in that order.

Zahas has pace, skill, ability to beat a man, play either side and can do some sensational things. If he can sort his head out he is at the right age to be turned into a really good player by someone like van Gaal. Probably more likely to be kept by him than someone like Young (even though i spoke up for him earlier) as he likes working with and inspiring young players.

Powell has never really played for United and spent a lot of time playing as a forward, but he has good vision, an eye for goal, good athlete so if van Gaal is considering a three man midfield it could suit him to make the move in their. It would be great to get a player who has goals in him into midfield. He is another player who has had some spectacular moments and its those moments that always make me want to se them get a chance.

Both lads above have donw it in big games through the play offs which points to them riaing to big occasions which are great traits to have.

Lingard just like the other two has an eye for goal. His movement is very good and technically always impresses me. He is another player that could do well in a three man midfield and maybe can add some depth to that area of the pitch. The way Scholes spoke up for him this week and how SAF spoke if him in the past makes me think the potential must be there.

Keane I have not seen as much of but he does have league experience and others here have spoke of his improvement so again under van Gaal and his coaches I would hope he would continue that trend.

redbaron_99

Vidal looks great in red.

Billy86

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I was going to give you a reasonable response until I read this part.
Delusional.

Funny, it must have been my "deluded imagination" that he was in the team of the season and was shortlisted for Premiership player of the year (and the only player outside of the final third to make the shortlist) in 2012/13.

And it must have had nothing to do with Moyes asking him to cover as much ground as a Gattuso or young Essien that his play suddenly fell off the moment our management changed to sheer incompetence. Nope, nothing at all.

socco

so following is summary of in / outs confirmed so far this season. If I've left any out please let me know.

In
Ander Herrera (Athletic Bilbao)
Luke Shaw (Southampton)

Out
Federico Macheda (Cardiff City)
Jack Barmby (Leicester City)
Rio Ferdinand
Ryan Giggs
Nemanja Vidic (Inter Milan)
Alex Buttner (Dynamo Moscow)

redbaron_99

Billy86 wrote: »

Funny, it must have been my "deluded imagination" that he was in the team of the season and was shortlisted for Premiership player of the year (and the only player outside of the final third to make the shortlist) in 2012/13.

And it must have had nothing to do with Moyes asking him to cover as much ground as a Gattuso or young Essien that his play suddenly fell off the moment our management changed to sheer incompetence. Nope, nothing at all.

Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe he will turn back the clocks and have a golden season
Maybe nani will be consistent this season
Maybe Anderson will come good
Maybe cleverly will fulfill his potential
Mage Evra will play like its 2008
Maybe welbeck will score 20 goals.

Paul Tergat

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe he will turn back the clocks and have a golden season
Maybe nani will be consistent this season
Maybe Anderson will come good
Maybe cleverly will fulfill his potential
Mage Evra will play like its 2008
Maybe welbeck will score 20 goals.

For some reason this annoyed me. I assume you meant maybe?

Son Of A Vidic

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Vidal looks great in red.

Hopefully he'll be wearing it permanently soon enough.

redbaron_99

Paul Tergat wrote: »

For some reason this annoyed me. I assume you meant maybe?

Maybe I did, maybe I didn't

The Moldy Gowl

How much was butters signed for?

lordgoat

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Phil Jones should be given a prolonged run at centre half. He was like a young Nemanja Vidic at Blackburn. Since then, we've messed him around and stifled his development by playing him virtually everywhere except his best position. He's now suffering from a condition known as "John O'Shea-itis" - Jack of all trades and master of none. We haven't been fair to the guy at all in terms of his development. I am convinced that he is the best centre half at the club.

Jones for me can only be a CB, I don't think he has the control or passing range needed for any kind of a midfielder at the level we will hopefully be playing at. He could do a man marking job like Park but I don't think he has the same engine that Ji had. at CB I'd like to think he could become as good as Vidic but part of me is just not convinced he will be 'that' good.

redbaron_99 wrote: »

All very nice, but he hasn't got the legs, and is hitting 33, and increasingly over the last 3 years (before moyes) his passing is becoming more and more restricted.
It's time to move on. Carrick has had his time.

I'd agree it is time to move Carrick on if we sign another midfielder that we know will be good enough. If not I'd keep him for one more season, with a decent partner next to him in the CM or 2 if we play 3 in there and Carrick is not the problem.

IrishIrish

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

How much was butters signed for?

3.9m pounds.

GSPfan

I would be delighted if Vidal or Sanchez actually ended up at United. Very good players. Sanchez will be a great signing for whoever gets him as his transfer fee will probably be very reasonable.

Hococop

GSPfan wrote: »

I would be delighted if Vidal or Sanchez actually ended up at United. Very good players. Sanchez will be a great signing for whoever gets him as his transfer fee will probably be very reasonable.

I've a feeling Sanchez depends on Suarez at Liverpool I'd say barca could bid him and cash for Suarez, but it liverpool keep him we should go all out for him

Adamocovic

Hococop wrote: »

I've a feeling Sanchez depends on Suarez at Liverpool I'd say barca could bid him and cash for Suarez, but it liverpool keep him we should go all out for him

The thing is now with the recent controversy Barcelona will probably try capitalise on it by offering less money, and saying it is because of the risk, which might stall any Liverpool deal.

I think there was talk already about a money and Sanchez deal being discussed but now with the recent incident it's going to be interesting what happens.

Have to say I see Sanchez playing in the premiership next season and would love to see him at United but I won't get my hopes up.

GSPfan

Sanchez being part of a Liverpool deal is not Barcelona's choice though. If Sanchez says no he wont be going anywhere. If he wanted to be at United we could have him no matter what Liverpool want. He defo will have options. This may be where we could see the LvG effect on signings.

TheTownie

Hococop wrote: »

I've a feeling Sanchez depends on Suarez at Liverpool I'd say barca could bid him and cash for Suarez, but it liverpool keep him we should go all out for him

I think Sanchez is on the way out regardless and I think it comes down to the player as to where he ends up. If Sanchez has offers from multiple clubs, and chooses a club other than Liverpool then Liverpool just have to accept that and Barca will put the cash towards Suarez.

DM_7

Hococop wrote: »

I've a feeling Sanchez depends on Suarez at Liverpool I'd say barca could bid him and cash for Suarez, but it liverpool keep him we should go all out for him

To be honest Sanchez will have his pick of a number of clubs, he won't end up at Anfield because Barca want Suarez, he would only go there if he wanted too. Same for United, Arsenal, Juve whoever put up decent money he will pick the one he wants to go to if Barca are stupid enough to sell him.

EDIT: sorry I didn't realise the same point was already made

Copper_pipe

Vidal being rested for pre season. he was taken off 3 minutes before the end of normal time

Adamocovic

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Vidal being rested for pre season. he was taken off 3 minutes before the end of normal time

haha let's hope :P he had a very good game. It says how good he is that he can get away with that disaster of a haircut :P

Hococop

Adamocovic wrote: »

haha let's hope :P he had a very good game. It says how good he is that he can get away with that disaster of a haircut :P

i see the interaction between lvg and him about his hair similar to this

Peanut Butter Jelly

Right, let's get Vidal now.

Zico

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Right, let's get Vidal now.

Vidal So Soon?

Maximus Alexander

No signings today? Supporting this club can be really trying at times. :mad:

Mitch Connor

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

No signings today? Supporting this club can be really trying at times. :mad:

we sold buttner for a profit, announced today. Vidal tomorrow I assume!

Maximus Alexander

Mitch Connor wrote: »

we sold buttner for a profit, announced today. Vidal tomorrow I assume!

I suppose a transfer in some direction each day will have to do so. :pac:

Mitch Connor

actually looking forward to the sunday papers this weekend, I reckon Ducker and the rest are gonna have some stories for us.

adox

So who will Utd announce first? Vidal or Sanchez?

The_Kew_Tour

Vidal stories are getting popular in Italy.

but im sure we aint only club sniffing around.