Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

redbaron_99

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I'm a bit conflicted about the Holland Vs Mexico game today. I'm rooting from Holland for obvious reason. LVG has been masterfully and the standout manager so far for me at this WC. Holland going all the way wouldn't surprise me and they're overdue a WC win. That said, if they lose today then the Iron Tulip will take his thrown at Old Trafford. So feck it, I don't know what I want.:(

I can understand the desire to get him to OT ASAP. But personally I would like holland to go far in the tournament. Would be amazing if they won it.

EuropeanSon

Nobody will be getting Vidal this summer. Juve would sell Buffon before they'd sell Vidal right now IMO (and there's no way on earth they'd sell Buffon).

redbaron_99

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Nobody will be getting Vidal this summer. Juve would sell Buffon before they'd sell Vidal right now IMO (and there's no way on earth they'd sell Buffon).

You're entitled to your opinion

tupac_healy

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Nobody will be getting Vidal this summer. Juve would sell Buffon before they'd sell Vidal right now IMO (and there's no way on earth they'd sell Buffon).

Unfortunately, as we have seen before... The decision may not rest with the club.

If Vidal kicks up a fuss, he will get a move, modern football!!

Larry Wildman

I don't mean to open a can of worms, but...

We weren't in a good place. Our midfield was sub-par because of years of neglect. A gem like Pogba was marginalised and humiliated and then allowed to leave. Someone like David Moyes was handed the reins. They're just a few examples.

Who's to blame? Fergie. Yes he is a genius and yes I love the man, but he has a lot of sh1t to answer for over the last few years.

kryogen

Mr_Red wrote: »

I believe if Chico played as many minutes as Welbeck last season he would have scored more goals then welbeck

Doubtful if you are giving him the same role in the team as Welbeck

Son Of A Vidic

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I can understand the desire to get him to OT ASAP. But personally I would like holland to go far in the tournament. Would be amazing if they won it.

Yes and I'll probably feel the same way once the game kicks off. Right now I just want Santa to come early. That said, Ed isn't doing a bad job holding the fort.

lordgoat

rarnes1 wrote: »

Sorry lads, this post was actually meant for Pool thread

As sure much of a muchness eh rarnes?!

Al Capwned wrote: »

Call me deluded, or be pedantic if ye want, but I still consider United to be a major champions league team.
We'll be back in it next year, without question.. Has every other 'major CL team' qualified for it every single year?
If Vidal is going to leave Juventus, we have a hell of a chance of getting him.

Yes Juve, a team with a great history but in recent years have been terrible in Europe and missed out on the CL for a number of seasons before having a resurgence. United since the early 90's have been in europe every season except this one. I can't see it being a huge factor in any player looking to be part of a great club. Herrera left a CL team to join us and Shaw says 'united are the biggest club out there' (for him)

glued wrote: »

The last week has proven that there are simply no journalists with any great insight into Man United anymore.

Andy Mitten, James Ducker, Daniel Taylor, Ian Ladyman etc. all reported transfers after other sources had broken them. I don't think the club is going to be telling journalists about deals until they are nearly complete. James Ducker is very good and does have insight into United but I don't think anything specific is going to be released for a long time.

Any journalist of any standing is in Rio, this summer is not one to judge them sp harshly. There are plenty of good sources on twitter, the fact that people don't know how to use it annoys me more than people writing it off.

Twitter is only as good/bad as the user. Anyone giving out about it as a medium doesn't understand the concept and imo it tells me more about the individual than anything else.

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Nobody will be getting Vidal this summer. Juve would sell Buffon before they'd sell Vidal right now IMO (and there's no way on earth they'd sell Buffon).

Sure stick a couple of hundred quid on it there... Prove us all wrong.

Lord TSC

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I'm a bit conflicted about the Holland Vs Mexico game today. I'm rooting from Holland for obvious reason. LVG has been masterfully and the standout manager so far for me at this WC. Holland going all the way wouldn't surprise me and they're overdue a WC win. That said, if they lose today then the Iron Tulip will take his thrown at Old Trafford. So feck it, I don't know what I want.:(

I believe that is what we call a "win-win" scenario :P

Son Of A Vidic

Lord TSC wrote: »

I believe that is what we call a "win-win" scenario :P

I think you nailed it there.:)

PhlegmyMoses

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I don't mean to open a can of worms, but...

We weren't in a good place. Our midfield was sub-par because of years of neglect. A gem like Pogba was marginalised and humiliated and then allowed to leave. Someone like David Moyes was handed the reins. They're just a few examples.

Who's to blame? Fergie. Yes he is a genius and yes I love the man, but he has a lot of sh1t to answer for over the last few years.

This is revisionism. For a start, Pogba and his people were no angels in that saga. You'll see in the next year or two when Real or PSG start sniffing around him.

Also Fergie handed Moyes a title winning team. Some of these players were not responsive to Moyes as a manager. Clearly Moyes couldn't deal with that but some of our players could have been a bit more amenable to him as a manager. Fergie should have fixed the midfield 3 years ago. Everybody at the club made a bollocks of last summer's transfer window.

As always, the reasons behind why situations get to where they get to are far more complex than a finger pointing exercise at one person.

redbaron_99

Fergie must answer for his crimes against united!

DM_7

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I don't mean to open a can of worms, but...

We weren't in a good place. Our midfield was sub-par because of years of neglect. A gem like Pogba was marginalised and humiliated and then allowed to leave. Someone like David Moyes was handed the reins. They're just a few examples.

Who's to blame? Fergie. Yes he is a genius and yes I love the man, but he has a lot of sh1t to answer for over the last few years.

If SAF was in charge last summer you can be sure some very good players would have arrived and United wouldn't have been in the mess they were in by April. All that was needed was one or two signings to fix midfield something he could easily do, while the team was supposed to have an awful one he kept them winning anyway.

Pogba has been great for Juve, lets be honest here he is somewhere he was never going to be at United at this stage, Juve have carried him in a league they are by far the best in recently and have players like Vidal, Pirlo alongside with Marchisio as another option. He was summed up well recently here as a luxery player the last two seasons and its an excellant point that gets lost in the idea of where he is now versus the level he was realistically going to be at if still with United.

EuropeanSon

lordgoat wrote: »

Sure stick a couple of hundred quid on it there... Prove us all wrong.

How exactly would me betting on it prove anything? I'd like to hear that explanation.

The only way to prove whether he'll move or not is to wait until the end of the window, no?

I couldn't imagine Vidal being so eager as to go pushing his way out the door for Man Utd right now. Sure, he might like the switch, who knows, but he's hardly going to be desperate for the move at this time.

Larry Wildman

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This is revisionism. For a start, Pogba and his people were no angels in that saga. You'll see in the next year or two when Real or PSG start sniffing around him.

Also Fergie handed Moyes a title winning team. Some of these players were not responsive to Moyes as a manager. Clearly Moyes couldn't deal with that but some of our players could have been a bit more amenable to him as a manager. Fergie should have fixed the midfield 3 years ago. Everybody at the club made a bollocks of last summer's transfer window.

As always, the reasons behind why situations get to where they get to are far more complex than a finger pointing exercise at one person.

Fair enough.

Neglect of midfield is a big black mark and based on previous seasons I'm not convinced that Fergie would have done anything.

I'd also be reluctant to criticise Pogba. If I was him and Fergie had stuck Rafael in midfield instead of me, I think I'd have fecked off. Talk of buying him back for £50m is frankly embarrassing.

And as for the most embarrassing episode of all, the Moyes debacle, I blame Fergie 100%. He anointed him. It was a laughable move.

redbaron_99

EuropeanSon wrote: »

How exactly would me betting on it prove anything? I'd like to hear that explanation.

The only way to prove whether he'll move or not is to wait until the end of the window, no?

I couldn't imagine Vidal being so eager as to go pushing his way out the door for Man Utd right now. Sure, he might like the switch, who knows, but he's hardly going to be desperate for the move at this time.

You're an arsenal fan, right?

EuropeanSon

redbaron_99 wrote: »

You're an arsenal fan, right?

Yes...

If you're about to ask what I've been doing in the Utd thread for the last day or so, I'm very bored, and there's nothing Arsenal going on, and I've been in the Pool thread too, you're not getting special treatment.

Just want to discuss a few topics.

redbaron_99

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Yes...

If you're about to ask what I've been doing in the Utd thread for the last day or so, I'm very bored, and there's nothing Arsenal going on, and I've been in the Pool thread too, you're not getting special treatment.

Just want to discuss a few topics.

PhlegmyMoses

I agree with EuropeanSon about Vidal. Like it or not, excellent players in their late 20s are not going to want to spend a season out of Europe unless they have to.

Only thing we could tempt him with is huge wages. But then Real, Barca, PSG, City, Chelsea can all match that whilst offering CL football.

Larry Wildman

The Champions League football argument is nonsensical. Liverpool have Champions League football next season and no top class player worth his salt would choose to go there over Old Trafford.

No way that Vidal would choose Arsenal over Manchester United, regardless of Champions League football.

EuropeanSon

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The Champions League football argument is nonsensical. Liverpool have Champions League football next season and no top class player worth his salt would choose to go there over Old Trafford.

No way that Vidal would choose Arsenal over Manchester United, regardless of Champions League football.

I wondered why you were all being so grumpy. Did you all think I said this, or anything about him signing for Arsenal?

I said there's no way he'd be allowed go to anybody right now.

PhlegmyMoses

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The Champions League football argument is nonsensical. Liverpool have Champions League football next season and no top class player worth his salt would choose to go there over Old Trafford.

No way that Vidal would choose Arsenal over Manchester United, regardless of Champions League football.

Note with interest that I did not mention Liverpool or Arsenal. I mentioned the very elite clubs that can match our finances and would surely be interested if Vidal decided he was leaving Juve. Plus they have CL football. Why exactly would he choose United over those clubs, if they offer similar wages?

Y2KBOS86

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I wondered why you were all being so grumpy. Did you all think I said this, or anything about him signing for Arsenal?

I said there's no way he'd be allowed go to anybody right now.

He would choose City and Chelsea over both.

Larry Wildman

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I agree with EuropeanSon about Vidal. Like it or not, excellent players in their late 20s are not going to want to spend a season out of Europe unless they have to.

Only thing we could tempt him with is huge wages. But then Real, Barca, PSG, City, Chelsea can all match that whilst offering CL football.

We can offer playing for Manchester United and Louis Van Gaal plus a truckload of cash.

I don't see one season out of Europe as a big deal. An easier season might even appeal to some players after the rigours of Brazil.

PhlegmyMoses

Larry Wildman wrote: »

We can offer playing for Manchester United and Louis Van Gaal plus a truckload of cash.

I don't see one season out of Europe as a big deal. An easier season might even appeal to some players after the rigours of Brazil.

Chelsea can offer playing for Mourinho, huge wages, living in London, recent CL winners and current CL participation. And that's just one of the clubs I mentioned.

Larry Wildman

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Note with interest that I did not mention Liverpool or Arsenal. I mentioned the very elite clubs that can match our finances and would surely be interested if Vidal decided he was leaving Juve. Plus they have CL football. Why exactly would he choose United over those clubs, if they offer similar wages?

Because after talking to Van Gaal, he might just like his vision for the club...

martinr5232

DM-ICE wrote: »

If SAF was in charge last summer you can be sure some very good players would have arrived and United wouldn't have been in the mess they were in by April. All that was needed was one or two signings to fix midfield something he could easily do, while the team was supposed to have an awful one he kept them winning anyway.

Pogba has been great for Juve, lets be honest here he is somewhere he was never going to be at United at this stage, Juve have carried him in a league they are by far the best in recently and have players like Vidal, Pirlo alongside with Marchisio as another option. He was summed up well recently here as a luxery player the last two seasons and its an excellant point that gets lost in the idea of where he is now versus the level he was realistically going to be at if still with United.

Fergie had plenty of transfer windows to fix midfield and he didnt do it he bought players for every position except the middle of the park.

He brought back a retired paul scholes and played rafael instead of giving one of the most promising prospects we probably ever had at the club and let him walk out the door.

Maybe Pogba had a bad attitude but look what he is doing now for club and country and the figures that are being talked about to bring him back after letting him walk away for nothing when we heard for years how there was no value in the market.

PhlegmyMoses

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Because after talking to Van Gaal, he might just like his vision for the club...

Look, I'm sure LVG can sell the club to many players, maybe even Vidal. But for the most part, it's a tough sell without CL football if we're trying to sign a world class player from under the noses of similarly prestigious and financially flush rivals.

We need to be realistic and understand that this season is all about CL qualification with further strengthening next summer. And as good as Vidal is, I don't think we need to be paying 50/60m for players at the moment. We need to spread the finances to shore up a few weak areas.

DM_7

Ozil joined Arsenal last season, that tells you they can attract players once they pay the money and the money is the only thing that stopped them competing in the past.

Larry Wildman

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Look, I'm sure LVG can sell the club to many players, maybe even Vidal. But for the most part, it's a tough sell without CL football if we're trying to sign a world class player from under the noses of similarly prestigious and financially flush rivals.

We need to be realistic and understand that this season is all about CL qualification with further strengthening next summer. And as good as Vidal is, I don't think we need to be paying 50/60m for players at the moment. We need to spread the finances to shore up a few weak areas.

I really don't see one season of non CL qualification as that big a barrier.

Any player can see that it's only going to be one season. Between our heritage, having Van Gaal in situ articulating his vision and paying a few extra quid, nobody should be beyond our reach.

Rayne Wooney

Hernandez is a brilliant finisher but he is very poor in almost every other aspect of being a striker

PhlegmyMoses

Larry Wildman wrote: »

I really don't see one season of non CL qualification as that big a barrier.

Any player can see that it's only going to be one season. Between our heritage, having Van Gaal in situ articulating his vision and paying a few extra quid, nobody should be beyond our reach.

I hope you're right but I think you are being a bit naive and may end up disappointed if Vidal does decide to leave Juve.

Happy to be proven wrong though

DM_7

martinr5232 wrote: »

Fergie had plenty of transfer windows to fix midfield and he didnt do it he bought players for every position except the middle of the park.

He brought back a retired paul scholes and played rafael instead of giving one of the most promising prospects we probably ever had at the club and let him walk out the door.

Maybe Pogba had a bad attitude but look what he is doing now for club and country and the figures that are being talked about to bring him back after letting him walk away for nothing when we heard for years how there was no value in the market.

He (Pogba) wouldn't have developed to the stage he is at if playing in England though. United shouldn't have lost him but he wasn't going to be the saviour of Uniteds midfield.

Yes while everyone moaned about midfield SAF was winning or almost winning leagues, he waited a season or two longer than he shoukd have to buy but had players like Strootman lined up and scouting guys like Herrera who we just signed.

I don't buy into suggests that SAF wasn't seeking to improve the midfield like every position at the club.

Shane.C

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Hernandez is a brilliant finisher but he is very poor in almost every other aspect of being a striker

Wrong, he has brilliant movement, high work rate, good pace and decent aerial ability.

uggybear

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Hernandez is a brilliant finisher but he is very poor in almost every other aspect of being a striker

Was brilliant in his first season at United but lost the alertness and pace that made him elusive in attack as time went by, being used as a sub could've hindered his place in the united team. Would be sad to see him go but think it's for his best

Nalz

Shane.C wrote: »

Wrong, he has brilliant movement, high work rate, good pace and decent aerial ability.

Bang on, in fact i don't think he's a great finisher at all. The above you mention he is good at

Off topic lads but wheres a good site other than 101greatgoals to watch worldcup goals/highlights?

DM_7

Trilla wrote: »

Bang on, in fact i don't think he's a great finisher at all. The above you mention he is good at

Off topic lads but wheres a good site other than 101greatgoals to watch worldcup goals/highlights?

Rte player has the highlights and the world cup site page on rte.ie has the goals under a video clip page

Assuming you are in Ireland

Backstreet Moyes

Trilla wrote: »

Bang on, in fact i don't think he's a great finisher at all. The above you mention he is good at

Off topic lads but wheres a good site other than 101greatgoals to watch worldcup goals/highlights?

Hernandez is the best finisher at the club.

martinr5232

DM-ICE wrote: »

He (Pogba) wouldn't have developed to the stage he is at if playing in England though. United shouldn't have lost him but he wasn't going to be the saviour of Uniteds midfield.

Yes while everyone moaned about midfield SAF was winning or almost winning leagues, he waited a season or two longer than he shoukd have to buy but had players like Strootman lined up and scouting guys like Herrera who we just signed.

I don't buy into suggests that SAF wasn't seeking to improve the midfield like every position at the club.

Its not just about pogba though we were waiting for years for years for hargreaves to come back and be our saviour in midfield.

I know what your saying pogba might not have become the player he is now if he stayed at united but that shouldnt be the case look at phil jones he was a beast playing centre half for blackburn under fergie he was nearly played everywhere except centre half.

I just dont think we are developing young players like we did years ago.

keane2097

Nuts102 wrote: »

Hernandez is the best finisher at the club.

He wouldn't lace RVP's boots as a finisher.

Backstreet Moyes

uggybear wrote: »

Was brilliant in his first season at United but lost the alertness and pace that made him elusive in attack as time went by, being used as a sub could've hindered his place in the united team. Would be sad to see him go but think it's for his best

He has not lost alertness or pace he done well when United were playing good football.

The problem is he plays best running off the shoulder of defenders on through balls. Unfortunately United's midfielder's could provide the service.

Backstreet Moyes

keane2097 wrote: »

He wouldn't lace RVP's boots as a finisher.

Your entitled to your opinion but i think Hernandez is a better finisher.

keane2097

Nuts102 wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion but i think Hernandez is a better finisher.

A guy who once scored a goal by accidentally kicking the ball off his own face we're talking about here. I get that people like the guy, but he's so overrated.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Hernandez is a brilliant finisher but he is very poor in almost every other aspect of being a striker

He has excellent movement and good pace, agility and strength. The only thing he is weak at is link up play, so I think your summary is well wide of the mark.

The_Kew_Tour

RVP is far superior in the finishing department.

When RVP has bad game he still scores, when Chico has a bad game he does not score (generally)

Pro. F

Nuts102 wrote: »

Hernandez is the best finisher at the club.

If you're talking about kicking the ball into the net from any angle, then I think RvP is a superior finisher. But he's one of the best in the world, so that's no criticism. Chicharito has far superior movement, so that balances out on the goal scoring front imo.

Nalz

Nuts102 wrote: »

Hernandez is the best finisher at the club.

LOL, i actually lol'd

Rooney and RVP... Actually Mata is a better finisher than him.

His strengths are movement, aerial ability and energy

Whatsisname

That Tom McDermott guy is answering a few Q's on Twitter atm, first few

Tom McDermott ‏@FootballMcD 1m
“@United99_: @FootballMcD chances of Vidal coming to mufc?” 50/50

Tom McDermott ‏@FootballMcD 1m
“@damiandavis16: @FootballMcD who's most likely to join Manchester United de vrij or de Jong” chance both could

Tom McDermott ‏@FootballMcD 55s
“@GavinMawn: @FootballMcD how many more players will utd bring in and who are they?” 3 I reckon. No more than 4

Pro. F

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

When RVP has bad game he still scores, when Chico has a bad game he does not score (generally)

That's not true on either side.

Backstreet Moyes

Trilla wrote: »

LOL, i actually lol'd

Rooney and RVP... Actually Mata is a better finisher than him.

His strengths are movement, aerial ability and energy

Rooney and Mata certaintly aren't better finishers than him.