Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

The_Kew_Tour

Pro. F wrote: »

That's not true on either side.

it is.

Games where Chico has been poor he has missed some awful chances.

Games like stoke and cardiff this season where RVP was poor he got 1 chance in each and buried it.

so no, I'm not wrong. at all.

Rayne Wooney

If we were looking at shots per goal I'm guessing Hernandez beats both RVP and Rooney

Headshot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

it is.

Games where Chico has been poor he has missed some awful chances.

Games like stoke and cardiff this season where RVP was poor he got 1 chance in each and buried it.

so no, I'm not wrong. at all.

yap sure, take a season that Moyes destroyed a players confidence

thelad95

You know it's a slow news day when people claim Chicharito is the best striker the club has.

RVP and Rooney are miles ahead of him.

Chicharitos besr assets are sneaking in behind defences and tapping it in. He'll rarely score a screamer. His goal against Argentina at the last world cup is the exception not the norm.

Pro. F

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

it is.

Games where Chico has been poor he has missed some awful chances.

Games like stoke and cardiff this season where RVP was poor he got 1 chance in each and buried it.

so no, I'm not wrong. at all.

Those aren't nearly all the games where RvP has been poor and Chico has scored goals in games where he hasn't done much too.

The_Kew_Tour

Headshot wrote: »

yap sure, take a season that Moyes destroyed a players confidence

who says I'm talking about this season??

did I say just last season?

Headshot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

who says I'm talking about this season??

did I say just last season?

Last season. Moyes destroyed the players confidence.

Under Fergie, Chico was superb

Pro. F

thelad95 wrote: »

You know it's a slow news day when people claim Chicharito is the best striker the club has.

We know that you are making things up.

The_Kew_Tour

Pro. F wrote: »

Those aren't nearly all the games where RvP has been poor and Chico has scored goals in games where he hasn't done much too.

Well in all ****ing fairness I'm hardly going to go through it game by ****ing game am i?

i just gave couple of examples that came from top of my head.

The_Kew_Tour

Headshot wrote: »

Last season. Moyes destroyed the players confidence.

Under Fergie, Chico was superb

He was good, far from superb.

a good player and I love him as much as anyone but don't make him out to be ronaldo/messi or even near RVP in terms of finishing

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

who says I'm talking about this season??

did I say just last season?

What? Both players where playing under moyes and rvp was better under fergie as well

Pro. F

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well in all ****ing fairness I'm hardly going to go through it game by ****ing game am i?

i just gave couple of examples that came from top of my head.

You're basing your theory off a couple of examples that came off the top of your head.

The_Kew_Tour

Pro. F wrote: »

You're basing your theory off a couple of examples that came off the top of your head.

Chico missed some awful chances the last few years. even the last season under Fergie.

I love the chap, he is a legend, but he aint anywhere near RVP as a striker.

imo

The_Kew_Tour

Natalie Abundant Wrinkle wrote: »

What? Both players where playing under moyes and rvp was better under fergie as well

?:o

Lucas Hood

You need to put the ball on a plate for Hernandez to score. He's not great at creating his own chances or chances for others.

Headshot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He was good, far from superb.

a good player and I love him as much as anyone but don't make him out to be ronaldo/messi or even near RVP in terms of finishing

Was not "far from superb"

RVP is the better finisher but a Chico on form and happy is the 2nd best finisher at the club

tupac_healy

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If we were looking at shots per goal I'm guessing Hernandez beats both RVP and Rooney

Shots per goal ratio.... Convertion rate??

Maybe somebody could dig out some figures but my money would be on RVP..... He usually hits the target and is not very wasteful compared to other strikers... I doubt Chico would be far behind though

Adamocovic

Hernandez is a top quality poacher but in my view RVP offers a lot more in the forward role and Rooney too. Those two players have the ability to control and boss the game around. Hernandez as good as he is I only see as a goalscorer I don't see him dictating a game.

The_Kew_Tour

Headshot wrote: »

Was not "far from superb"

RVP is the better finisher but a Chico on form and happy is the 2nd best finisher at the club

Good

at least you admitted it;)

Pro. F

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Chico missed some awful chances the last few years. even the last season under Fergie.

I love the chap, he is a legend, but he aint anywhere near RVP as a striker.

imo

RVP also missed some awful chances in the last few seasons.

I didn't say that Chico was anywhere near RVP, as a striker. I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I'm disagreeing with your assertion that RVP tends to score when he's playing poorly at a any significant rate more than Chico does.

Rubber_Soul

DiMarzio said on his show last night there's been no offers for Vidal from anyone and that Juve are determined not to sell so Vidal would have to force it. I really can't see him forcing an exit for us if the rumoured Real interest is true.

tupac_healy

Speaking of 'who's best in which position' what will be next seasons starting line up?

Also, under LVG, do people think we are looking at a change in system ala the Dutch team?

Pro. F

Lucas Hood wrote: »

You need to put the ball on a plate for Hernandez to score. He's not great at creating his own chances or chances for others.

I would argue that since he is so good at sniffing out half chances and scoring from situations that most other strikers don't even notice, that he is excellent at making chances for himself. He won't make those chance with something that catches the eye, like a bit of control, dribbling or shooting from an impossible angle. But he definitely makes goals out of very little.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

He has excellent movement and good pace, agility and strength. The only thing he is weak at is link up play, so I think your summary is well wide of the mark.

I don't think his movement is excellent, in terms of making runs and pulling defenders out of position, his positioning puts him at the right place at the right time which ties into his finishing

His link up play is poor, his ability to lead the line is nonexistent, he will generally not create chances for himself, I cannot easily recall one instance of him running at a defence

I wouldn't say he has an abundance of pace and strength either

Adamocovic

tupac_healy wrote: »

Speaking of 'who's best in which position' what will be next seasons starting line up?

Also, under LVG, do people think we are looking at a change in system ala the Dutch team?

I think Giggs will probably try edge him towards wide attacks down the wings like in previous years, but when we have Mata it will be hard not to play Mata behind Rooney and RVP.

Interesting what VG will decide to do formation wise next season.
I wouldn't be surprised seeing the 4 in defence, 2 holding midfielders with an attacking midfielder between them and the three forwards.

Backstreet Moyes

thelad95 wrote: »

You know it's a slow news day when people claim Chicharito is the best striker the club has.

RVP and Rooney are miles ahead of him.

Chicharitos besr assets are sneaking in behind defences and tapping it in. He'll rarely score a screamer. His goal against Argentina at the last world cup is the exception not the norm.

Who said he is the best striker at the club you should read back at what was said.

Backstreet Moyes

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't think his movement is excellent, in terms of making runs and pulling defenders out of position, his positioning puts him at the right place at the right time which ties into his finishing

His link up play is poor, his ability to lead the line is nonexistent, he will generally not create chances for himself, I cannot easily recall one instance of him running at a defence

I wouldn't say he has an abundance of pace and strength either

Hos movement is excellent he would do very well playing with a good midfield behind him. His runs are excellent but he has suffered at United because of the quality of service. So many times he makes a great run and get's caught offside because our midfielders are too slow at releasing the ball.

Rayne Wooney

Nuts102 wrote: »

Hos movement is excellent he would do very well playing with a good midfield behind him. His runs are excellent but he has suffered at United because of the quality of service. So many times he makes a great run and get's caught offside because our midfielders are too slow at releasing the ball.

I'm just basing it off what I've seen and remember really

you could say Giroud would be the best striker in the world with Bale, Di Maria and Ronaldo behind him.

ShaneU

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/man-united-benfica-are-in-negotiations-over-nicolas-gaitan-bebe-could-be-used-in-the-deal-record/

Portuguese paper Record claim an exclusive on Sunday, reporting that Manchester United and Benfica are in negotiations over Nicolas Gaitan.

According to Record, new United boss Louis van Gaal still currently holding the ball on the transfer moving further, as the Dutch manager considers whether he wants the 26-year-old midfielder or not.

Whilst van Gaal mulls things over, it’s suggested that United could offload Bebe as part of the deal with Benfica.

As to the numbers involved in the deal, Benfica are aiming to scoop at least €20m for Gaitán.

Should Bebe get involved in the deal then Benfica will likely lower their fee, however Record speculate that Bebe’s salary may be a problem for Benfica.

Gaitan made 42 appearances for Benfica last season, scoring seven goals and bagging 10 assists.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't think his movement is excellent, in terms of making runs and pulling defenders out of position, his positioning puts him at the right place at the right time which ties into his finishing

His link up play is poor, his ability to lead the line is nonexistent, he will generally not create chances for himself, I cannot easily recall one instance of him running at a defence

I wouldn't say he has an abundance of pace and strength either

His movement for dragging defenders around the pitch wouldn't be as good as somebody like Rooney or Suarez, but in terms of sniffing out chances in the box his movement is as good as anybody and far better than most. So to describe his movement as anything less than excellent is wrong.

His link up play is poor, but it's not as bad as you're making out.

Whether or not he has an abundance of pace and strength I'm not interested in arguing; you can't argue that he is poor in that department.

You described him as brilliant at finishing and poor at almost everything else, that is very wrong.

Larry Wildman

Opinions on Hernandez clearly differ.

I think it's fair to say though that most people agree he is not good enough to be first choice at United.

As a "Plan B we need a goal" option he's not a bad one to have but even at that he's not a patch on Ole.

A very likeable fella though - I wish him well.

lordgoat

EuropeanSon wrote: »

How exactly would me betting on it prove anything? I'd like to hear that explanation.

The only way to prove whether he'll move or not is to wait until the end of the window, no?

I couldn't imagine Vidal being so eager as to go pushing his way out the door for Man Utd right now. Sure, he might like the switch, who knows, but he's hardly going to be desperate for the move at this time.

See this is very different to what you originally said.

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Nobody will be getting Vidal this summer. Juve would sell Buffon before they'd sell Vidal right now IMO (and there's no way on earth they'd sell Buffon).

I think there's a decent chance vidal can move. I wouldn't state as fact like you did in the above quote. So if you're so certain nobody will be getting Vidal, put a large bet on it, make some easy money for yourself.

Nuts102 wrote: »

Hernandez is the best finisher at the club.

Finisher? He can barely finish his dinner at times. i'd have James Wilson as a better finisher than him. I can think of numerous easy chances he's missed.

Pro. F wrote: »

His movement for dragging defenders around the pitch wouldn't be as good as somebody like Rooney or Suarez, but in terms of sniffing out chances in the box his movement is as good as anybody and far better than most. So to describe his movement as anything less than excellent is wrong.

His link up play is poor, but it's not as bad as you're making out.

Whether or not he has an abundance of pace and strength I'm not interested in arguing; you can't argue that he is poor in that department.

You described him as brilliant at finishing and poor at almost everything else, that is very wrong.

What do you think of him as a finisher Pro?? As in would you back him 9/10 to score a one on one? I certainly would not.

What a week! I got to see my favourite band in my favourite venue in Europe during a great few days away. I had to go without internet because 1) Fúck data roaming, and 2) The wi-fi coverage up on the 9th floor of the hostel was about as useful as Anne Frank's drumkit.

Got home Friday night to have a quick scan of the forum here and it was like a dream...Herrera and Shaw done and dusted, with the strong possibility of more quality to come. Ed Woodward, more of that please! And by more, I obviously mean more necessary quality signings, but more of that discreet way of going about club business also.

I am now majorly excited for the new season, despite the lack of CL football, but would these Dirk Kuyt rumours please go away quickly!

Also, sorry to read about your loss Ivy Slayer.

RobertKK

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calciomercato/28-06-2014/vidal-manchester-united-scoperto-ma-occhio-pure-arsenal-801068985583.shtml

The google translate version of Gazzetta dello Sport says United are ready to make an initial offer to Juventus for Vidal which would include Nani.
Juventus wants 40 to 45 million cash and if we include Nani it might just work.

Gazzetta say Vidal is expendable as they want the money to re-invest immediately in the squad.

They seem to put the Premier League ahead of La Liga when it comes to Vidal, Arsenal to offer 44 million is the claim and in La Liga the two Madrid teams.
Gazzetta make the most work over United though with the claim an initial bid is imminent.

Pro. F

lordgoat wrote: »

What do you think of him as a finisher Pro?? As in would you back him 9/10 to score a one on one? I certainly would not.

One-on-one where there's a bit of time (rather than a snapshot in a scramble or something), no I wouldn't. I'd rate RVP as better in those types of one-on-ones, but I would think he still converts fewer than 9/10 of them.

There's more to finishing than just scoring one-on-ones. And RVP is better in that department for all types of shots, but Chico is still more than good enough imo.

Whatsisname

David De Gea ‏@D_DeGea 3m
Today makes 3 years of one of my happiest days of my life. Thanks Sir Alex, thanks @manutd

I'd probably marry him if I had the chance

redbaron_99

[IMG][/img]

Headshot

And I thought De Gea couldnt get any more love from me and he goes and does that.

Give him the captaincy

RobertKK

redbaron_99 wrote: »

[IMG][/img]

lol, I thought people were saying the other day that Giggs kept that stuff off the pitch :P

Larry Wildman

Whatsisname wrote: »

I'd probably marry him if I had the chance

He has been an exceptional signing.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

One-on-one where there's a bit of time (rather than a snapshot in a scramble or something), no I wouldn't. I'd rate RVP as better in those types of one-on-ones, but I would think he still converts fewer than 9/10 of them.

There's more to finishing than just scoring one-on-ones. And RVP is better in that department for all types of shots, but Chico is still more than good enough imo.

Sorry to be a bollocks but you surprise me here, you have very high standards for a midfield player, specifically touch but for a striker it sounds like good enough is sufficient. Hernandez is miles behind van Persie so should that not mean Robin is the one that we would want United to have/play and as he is better Chica really isn't good enough at all?

Jimmy Iovine

Nice piece on van Gaal on ITV there.

I can't wait for him to start at United. It'll be so interesting to see him go up against Mourinho. The battle of the egos.

Larry Wildman

RVP seems to have a special relationship with Van Gaal. I think that he'll be inspired next season. Worth a punt for top scorer in my view, especially given our lack of European football.

Ulysses Gaze

Larry Wildman wrote: »

He has been an exceptional signing.

And remember the grief he got in his first season!

Vic Vinegar

lol at Martin O'Neill there.

Larry Wildman

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

And remember the grief he got in his first season!

Sure he was a young goalie in a new country where rough and tumble is not just tolerated - It's lauded.

He's done exceptionally well.

Seems like a gent too - He's the one who might threaten Giggsy's appearance record I reckon.

umop.episdn

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Sure he was a young goalie in a new country where rough and tumble is not just tolerated - It's lauded.

He's done exceptionally well.

Seems like a gent too - He's the one who might threaten Giggsy's appearance record I reckon.

Can't see him being a lifer, eventually Real or Barca will come calling & chances are he will wish to return home

Nalz

Chico has no composure or v little yet he's the best finisher at the clubs in some ppls eyes???

Like lordgoat says, he can't finish his dinner sometimes.

Too much man love for him imo. I like the guy but he's a little overrated

Larry Wildman

umop.episdn wrote: »

Can't see him being a lifer, eventually Real or Barca will come calling & chances are he will wish to return home

I hope that you're wrong.

He does seem to love Manchester United to be fair.

Any sign of a girlfriend? Settling down with a girl from Manchester might help our cause!

EDIT: B..locks...he has a girlfriend and she's from Madrid! And she's a pop star in Spain. I did not know that.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Trilla wrote: »

Chico has no composure or v little yet he's the best finisher at the clubs in some ppls eyes???

Like lordgoat says, he can't finish his dinner sometimes.

Too much man love for him imo. I like the guy but he's a little overrated

Agree, but love Hernandez for his attitude and workrate. He is not a top club striker, as a starter, but excellent off the bench at times. I would think he'd start for the likes of Everton (before the comedians start, they generally finish below united).

I don't see him as a consistent champions league striker, but he merits his place in the squad for sure. Will that be enough for him.