Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Corvo

Tough to see why Arturo Vidal would make the move to United, unless he has a specific preference to play in the Premier League. One thing for certain, he would relish the physical nature of it and the faster pace of the game means he should be right at home.

Saying that, I do believe United/Woodard want a big name, statement signing and Vidal would certainly fit the bill. Hopefully we can get the remainder of our business tied up soon, whether that be Vidal, De Vrij or whoever. Would like to see us settle early as on paper, we should be winning the first 5 games - which would put us in a great position.

On another note - how do you feel about Van Gaal since? I wasn't as impressed with Holland last night as some make out, but no doubt he made a crucial change at the right time and I was impressed with his willingness to remove Van Persie.

Rayne Wooney

Kroos going to Madrid would be great as I think we would have a good chance of getting Vidal if that happens.

He is such a monster defensively but then you see he has 28 goals and 20 assists in 96 appearances for Juve, it's what our midfield is crying out for.

This is a good read
http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2014/06/arturo-vidal-the-vital-piece-in-louis-van-gaals-man-utd-midfield-puzzle/

TheDoc

Too much importance being put on CL football.

We arn't a team who have a history of drifting in and out of the competition, or trying to make it every year. We have fallen out of it once. ONCE.

We have a decent modern history of progressing into the next rounds, and a relatively recent history of a good few finals and semi finals.

If I was an agent, I'd be telling my client to take the inflated wage packet on offer that United FEEL they need to offer because of the lack of CL, but the likelyhood is the club will be back in the CL quickly, and you'll be back competing in the biggest tournament on massive wages.

Too much emphasis being placed on lack of CL. PLayers don't move looking at the immediate season, they are planning for 3-5 years, according to every shred of insider information you could read from autobiographies and the likes. 3-5 years is always the planning, unless someone is moving for a stepping stone where they plan for 18 months.

The issue I'd sight as the REAL potential pitfall, is that Real are seeing as the goliath of football in South America, not United. And La Liga is regarded as the better of the two offerings.

MagicIRL

MagicIRL wrote: »

There goes the thread.

Not by me.

I'll make my point without being a dick. Like some who come in btw not you or anyone here!

redbaron_99

Corvo wrote: »

On another note - how do you feel about Van Gaal since? I wasn't as impressed with Holland last night as some make out, but no doubt he made a crucial change at the right time and I was impressed with his willingness to remove Van Persie.

Hard to judge Holland on yesterday's performace. They managed to get the win which is always a good thing. But the performance wasn't great. But keep in mind it was almost 40 degrees yesterday, and they lost DeJong in the opening minutes. RVP looked wrecked after an hour.

NeVeR

World Cup Sweeps Update

I think this is right .. but please correct it if it's wrong.

Most yellow cards in group stages €20 - Honduras -- LostBoy101
1st Red Card €20 - Uruguay -- Gadge
1st OG €20 - Croatia -- ninja900
1st Peno €20 - Brazil -- markc1184
Worst goal difference in group stages. €20 - Cameroon -- bennyl10

Billy86

redbaron_99 wrote: »

By the by, I'm not saying Carrick is finished, or should be first out the door. I just think he's in the twilight of his career. A good squad option, but we're in trouble if he's a first teamer.

Ah right, gotcha now. I wouldn't say it is a problem if he is a first teamer (though we should at least be looking for someone to take his place next year, through the season) but it would be if we are depending on him to take over the midfield like Moyes seemed to expect him to do. He's a good bit like Evans for me - a good, solid player but not a match winner like Rio or Keane were in their positions. If van Gaal goes 433 for example, Carrick/Vidal*/Herrera would be absolutely brilliant for this year. And without Europe, we don't need to worry about having the same squad depth as usual.

As much as I think we should gut a lot of dead weight from the squad, I don't think we should panic into making too many signings for the sake of making signings, which is an error we made in 2003 and 2007 I reckon.

*pleasepleasepleaseplease!

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Too much importance being put on CL football.

We arn't a team who have a history of drifting in and out of the competition, or trying to make it every year. We have fallen out of it once. ONCE.

We have a decent modern history of progressing into the next rounds, and a relatively recent history of a good few finals and semi finals.

If I was an agent, I'd be telling my client to take the inflated wage packet on offer that United FEEL they need to offer because of the lack of CL, but the likelyhood is the club will be back in the CL quickly, and you'll be back competing in the biggest tournament on massive wages.

Too much emphasis being placed on lack of CL. PLayers don't move looking at the immediate season, they are planning for 3-5 years, according to every shred of insider information you could read from autobiographies and the likes. 3-5 years is always the planning, unless someone is moving for a stepping stone where they plan for 18 months.

The issue I'd sight as the REAL potential pitfall, is that Real are seeing as the goliath of football in South America, not United. And La Liga is regarded as the better of the two offerings.

Its certainly not the number 1 factor but it would be a factor for some players particularly if another club is offering similar wages and are in the CL.

Maximus Alexander

rarnes1 = generally the best pool fan to come into the thread tbh.

Zico

rarnes1 wrote: »

Exactly.

A player of that calibre will want CL.

That is a fair point but players will look longer term too. Utd being out of the CL is as much of a blip as say Spurs being in it.

redbaron_99

Billy86 wrote: »

Ah right, gotcha now. I wouldn't say it is a problem if he is a first teamer (though we should at least be looking for someone to take his place next year, through the season) but it would be if we are depending on him to take over the midfield like Moyes seemed to expect him to do. He's a good bit like Evans for me - a good, solid player but not a match winner like Rio or Keane were in their positions. If van Gaal goes 433 for example, Carrick/Vidal*/Herrera would be absolutely brilliant for this year. And without Europe, we don't need to worry about having the same squad depth as usual.

As much as I think we should gut a lot of dead weight from the squad, I don't think we should panic into making too many signings for the sake of making signings, which is an error we made in 2003 and 2007 I reckon.

*pleasepleasepleaseplease!

Yeah, I'd go along with the majority of that.

kstand

Throw Vidal into that squad (or Carvalho), bring in a top drawer centre half and get a decent winger and there's no reason why United cant really push for the EPL next season. I have a feeling that Yaya Toure is on his way out of City - he is their beating heart, without him they aren't nearly the same side and he was player of the year in the EPL last season - when they came powering through he was the one pulling them along like Keano used to do for us. With him gone they wont be the same. Liverpool now have the Suarez problem on their hands and their central midfield isn't all that - plus CL games next year will take their toll. That leaves Arsenal and Chelsea and they are no great shakes.

So I'd hope that LVG will go and bite the bullet and bring in someone like Vidal and a centre half of the highest quality. Very exciting season coming if he does that.

Maximus Alexander

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

rarnes1 = generally the best pool fan to come into the thread tbh.

Probably a few that'll disagree with that! Lol

Mitch Connor

As much of a dream signing Vidal would be, and I do believe United are very eager to sign him, I just can't see us pulling off a deal ahead of Madrid and Munich.

Maximus Alexander

rarnes1 wrote: »

Probably a few that'll disagree with that! Lol

Meh, I'm not saying I always agree with what you have to say, but you're generally just chatting, not on the wind up. Either that or you're such a good wum that it goes over my head. :pac:

redbaron_99

Mitch Connor wrote: »

As much of a dream signing Vidal would be, and I do believe United are very eager to sign him, I just can't see us pulling off a deal ahead of Madrid and Munich.

I think sooner or later United are going to have to beat the other big three to a signing. As a statement of intent, more than anything.

v3ttel

bangkok wrote: »

Pogba > Kroos > Vidal

Amazing how people always pick up those signs the wrong way around.

glued

I think some people are seriously overrating current CL status. People are seriously overrating the lure of Arsenal and Liverpool. Neither side are near the capacity to mount a serious simultaneous European and Premier League challenge.

Let's not forget that Arsenal are typically prudent and Liverpool don't have the financial muscle to compete with us. Throw a couple of extra thousand on that salary per week and I think sitting out of the CL for one year wouldn't be such an issue any more.

Liverpool aren't a consistent CL team and Arsenal haven't mounted a serious title challenge for a number of years.

Zico

Zico wrote: »

That is a fair point but players will look longer term too. Utd being out of the CL is as much of a blip as say Spurs being in it.

Of course. Utd will be back in it soon for sure. Will it be after the next campaign? Who knows with all the changes. Sometimes it takes a while for a managers ideas to work.

Van Gaal is obviously a huge draw for any player so that could be a deciding factor in some deals

glued

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

rarnes1 = generally the best pool fan to come into the thread tbh.

Quandary

Corvo wrote: »

On another note - how do you feel about Van Gaal since? I wasn't as impressed with Holland last night as some make out, but no doubt he made a crucial change at the right time and I was impressed with his willingness to remove Van Persie.

Mexico was always going to be a very tough match for whoever got them. They are well organised, surprisingly good technically and they have a phenomenal work ethic. I really don't think the Dutch would have been looking forward to playing them.

LVG likes to play an attacking game but if the need arises, like it did against Mexico, he will not hesitate to make a few drastic changes even if it makes the football less attractive to watch. That Dutch team is greater than the sum of its parts and LVG has been quoted as saying he is working with a "modest" group of players. In other words, he is playing with a style to suit the players at his disposal because he has to do that if he wants to win games.

I can't wait to see what he can do with a club like Utd where he can buy almost anyone he wants. That way we will really see what LVG is all about.

Mitch Connor

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I think sooner or later United are going to have to beat the other big three to a signing. As a statement of intent, more than anything.

I have no doubt United want to, and maybe if we had been as aggressive with our transfer strategy last summer we would have done so - but this year we are battling with the fact we can't offer CL football.

For some players, I don't think that is a massive issue - but everything about Vidal (age, talent, current club status) just screams he would pick Madrid or Munich over us; most players would to be fair. If we were just up against Arsenal (another side said to be interested) I could see us winning that battle, but Bayern and Madrid? Don't see it. Would gladly be proven wrong, and I am at least happy that it is a move United are trying to do rather than admit defeat on before even asking a question.

I think we are far more likely to end up with De Jong or Kheidera in midfield than Vidal.

Maximus Alexander

glued wrote: »

You're right, I want to be on his good side so I can benefit from the immense power he wields.

glued

glued wrote: »

I think some people are seriously overrating current CL status. People are seriously overrating the lure of Arsenal and Liverpool. Neither side are near the capacity to mount a serious simultaneous European and Premier League challenge.

Let's not forget that Arsenal are typically prudent and Liverpool don't have the financial muscle to compete with us. Throw a couple of extra thousand on that salary per week and I think sitting out of the CL for one year wouldn't be such an issue any more.

Liverpool aren't a consistent CL team and Arsenal haven't mounted a serious title challenge for a number of years.

Nobody mentioned either of those teams though.

MagicIRL

Ah but sure it's common courtesy to take aim at Liverpool and Arsenal.

Mitch Connor

Corvo wrote: »

On another note - how do you feel about Van Gaal since? I wasn't as impressed with Holland last night as some make out, but no doubt he made a crucial change at the right time and I was impressed with his willingness to remove Van Persie.

I think it is very tough to judge a bunch of europeans vs a bunch of very good americans, in 39degree heat. I feel the mexicans were always going to have a bit of an advantage with regards to the conditions. Fans couldn't even sit in the heat, never mind the players playing in it - was incredible from both sets of players to be fair. I could never see Holland really taking the game to mexico when it was still tied or early in the match, they'd ahve killed themselves on the pitch and been beaten late on if they had really gone for it from the off. As Robben has been doing all WC, the dutch needed to conserve energy as much as possible.

glued

rarnes1 wrote: »

Nobody mentioned either of those teams though.

Yeah and that's why I did.

Mitch Connor

glued wrote: »

Yeah and that's why I did.

If the choice for Vidal was United, Arsenal or Liverpool - i think we could sign him, regardless of the CL this season. But the choice for Vidal looks like it will contain Madrid and Munich, and I have no such confidence of beating those two to his signing.

As I say though, I do believe United are serious about signing him, and are doing everything that can do in order to sign him, so I am happy with that. As long as we really try for this caliber of player, and also have some quality backup targets in mind and on the go, I can't ask for more really. While I don't think we will get Vidal, I do think we have lined up alternate targets already (as I said earlier) - so United are doing business the correct way this summer, imo.

glued

glued wrote: »

Yeah and that's why I did.

Ok.

Would a player choose Utd over Liverpool/Arsenal? Probably would the majority of the tine, doubt anyone could argue against it.

Would a player choose Utd over say Madrid? Above discussion

bangkok

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

MagicIRL

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

What are you talking about. Peope have been calling for Vidal since Moyes took over.

Lukker-

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

He didn't even have a good World Cup by his standards, he was injured before hand so I don't think he was match fit. I think he'd cost at least £50m+, he's currently the best CM in the world.

tupac_healy

kstand wrote: »

Throw Vidal into that squad (or Carvalho), bring in a top drawer centre half and get a decent winger and there's no reason why United cant really push for the EPL next season. I have a feeling that Yaya Toure is on his way out of City - he is their beating heart, without him they aren't nearly the same side and he was player of the year in the EPL last season - when they came powering through he was the one pulling them along like Keano used to do for us. With him gone they wont be the same. Liverpool now have the Suarez problem on their hands and their central midfield isn't all that - plus CL games next year will take their toll. That leaves Arsenal and Chelsea and they are no great shakes.

So I'd hope that LVG will go and bite the bullet and bring in someone like Vidal and a centre half of the highest quality. Very exciting season coming if he does that.

Don't get me wrong, those impending imploding problems of Liverpool's and Citys would help, but a club such as ours (cliche I know) should focus on our own team, we should have enough about us next year to push for the title IMO

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

There have been people in this thread talking about Vidal since last summer, you can't have missed them. Or do you just ignore any post that isn't about Reus playing centre midfield?

Zico

rarnes1 wrote: »

Sometimes it takes a while for a managers ideas to work.

We're in the same boat as last year in that regard, but while everything about Moyes suggested he was trying to prove he was up to the job of coaching the players he was given, when Van Gaal arrives it will be the players jumping through hoops to impress him.

Van Gaal's reputation is no guarantee of success but we've a much better chance than we did last year and we still have most of a squad of players who dominated the Premiership until last summer.

Even without the CL next season there aren't many teams in the World with better prospects for a player than Utd.

The_Kew_Tour

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

bangkok

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

He's been discussed at length in a good few threads over the past season at least.

Vic Vinegar

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

LOL

I think 90% of football fans know who Vidal is. More crazy talk from you.

bangkok

Lukker- wrote: »

He didn't even have a good World Cup by his standards, he was injured before hand so I don't think he was match fit. I think he'd cost at least £50m+, he's currently the best CM in the world.

50m + now? come on. for a player that is 27 and doesn't even score that many goals?! how much was lampard worth in his prime so!! :eek:

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

Most people on here have been calling to sign him for the last 12-18months.

bangkok

rarnes1 wrote: »

He's been discussed at length in a good few threads over the past season at least.

yes past season, but like I said he is 27, talk of being the best centre midfielder in the world are OTT imo

tupac_healy

Lukker- wrote: »

He didn't even have a good World Cup by his standards, he was injured before hand so I don't think he was match fit. I think he'd cost at least £50m+, he's currently the best CM in the world.

This is true! Vidal is a much better player than he's shown at the WC, and that says a lot!

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Most people on here have been calling for Moyes to sign him for the last 12-18months.

well moyes wasn't even united manager 12 months so that's def a lie

Zico

Zico wrote: »

We're in the same boat as last year in that regard, but while everything about Moyes suggested he was trying to prove he was up to the job of coaching the players he was given, when Van Gaal arrives it will be the players jumping through hoops to impress him.

Van Gaal's reputation is no guarantee of success but we've a much better chance than we did last year and we still have most of a squad of players who dominated the Premiership until last summer.

Even without the CL next season there aren't many teams in the World with better prospects for a player than Utd.

I guess a big issue with Vidal if he moves is that it'll be his last big move (probably).

Ftr, has he said he's definitely leaving Juve? Could be a possible bargaining tool for a new contract

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

yes past season, but like I said he is 27, talk of being the best centre midfielder in the world are OTT imo

You say that like its a bad thing

FutureGuy

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

Christ...I've had Vidal in my Fifa teams for years now.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

well moyes wasn't even united manager 12 months so that's def a lie

Angry typo :pac: fixed

weisses

Strootman would be one of LvG key targets imo

He completely changed his tactics with the dutch squad after he got injured, showing the importance of Strootman in LvG ideal system

TheDoc

The decision between Manchester United, Real Madrid and Bayern Munich are multi factor, and sure being the current HOLDER might be an influencing factor ( Hazard) I don't think not competiting in that competition for a season is as big a problem as someone would make out.

A lot of it is down to perception regarding how big you think that club is, and that perception is different depending on where you come from, and how football was as your grew up imo.

Like for me, it would be an easy decision. Untied or Bayern. Both has a history of sustained success and the club and squad being run in the correct and appropriated manner to enable each club perform.

Madrid is madhouse, run by a man without a clue about football, but keeps buying in outagous singings and making outragous decisions to keep him in power.

Madness, never understand why people would go there instead of a United or Bayern etc.

Billy86

MagicIRL wrote: »

What are you talking about. Peope have been calling for Vidal since Moyes took over.

A good few were even bulling when we didn't go for him the time he went to Juve while Ferguson was on about "no value in the market" (he cost just €10.5mn), and some had been saying to sign him even before that.

What an insane post (not yours).