Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

bmcc10

FutureGuy wrote: »

Christ...

Do you realise what you've done?:eek:

bangkok

yea I will agree vidal is quality, but im not on the "he is worth 50m + boat"

He was poor in the champions league and in the semi final v benfica of Europa league he was anonymous. He plays in an extremely poor serie a

He was taken off after 85m v brazil when extra time was on the cards.

Spending 50m on a midfielder you have to go for Pogba imo

bmcc10

bangkok wrote: »

yea I will agree vidal is quality, but im not on the "he is worth 50m + boat"

He was poor in the champions league and in the semi final v benfica of Europa league he was anonymous. He plays in an extremely poor serie a

He was taken off after 85m v brazil when extra time was on the cards.

Spending 50m on a midfielder you have to go for Pogba imo

Such brown.

keane2097

Oh the ****ing nonsense in this thread today

bangkok

Billy86 wrote: »

A good few were even bulling when we didn't go for him the time he went to Juve while Ferguson was on about "no value in the market" (he cost just €10.5mn), and some had been saying to sign him even before that.

What an insane post (not yours).

if he was that good then and was only cost €10 why didn't any of the English clubs go for him, city utd Liverpool arsenal Chelsea spurs even clubs lower down the table could have afforded his wages, why didn't one of the top side in Germany go for him, or barca or real Madrid?!

redbaron_99

bangkok wrote: »

yea I will agree vidal is quality, but im not on the "he is worth 50m + boat"

He was poor in the champions league and in the semi final v benfica of Europa league he was anonymous. He plays in an extremely poor serie a

He was taken off after 85m v brazil when extra time was on the cards.

Spending 50m on a midfielder you have to go for Pogba imo

He's only had a knee surgery a couple of months ago...

FutureGuy

bangkok wrote: »

yea I will agree vidal is quality, but im not on the "he is worth 50m + boat"

He was poor in the champions league and in the semi final v benfica of Europa league he was anonymous. He plays in an extremely poor serie a

He was taken off after 85m v brazil when extra time was on the cards.

Spending 50m on a midfielder you have to go for Pogba imo

Actually, I could begin to point out what's wrong with that post but I couldn't be bothered.

Kylo Ren

bangkok wrote: »

its funny but most people on here hadn't seen anything of vidal before the world cup and are now talking about spending 40-50m on him!!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78601728

Iseedeadpixels

keane2097 wrote: »

Oh the ****ing nonsense in this thread today

That's what happens when there's no transfers for a few days.

slingerz

FutureGuy wrote: »

Actually, I could begin to point out what's wrong with that post but I couldn't be bothered.

TBH i think there were some reasoned points in that debate. Vidal should be a mainstay for Chile not be taken off after 85 mins, the fact he was after knee surgery months previously is indifferent as can you imagine Ireland taking Keane off if in a similar position or Uruguay playing Suarez straight away after his injury.

For the money bandied about, ~£50M surely Pogba being younger would be a better buy.m Only downside with Pogba would be his decision to leave Utd already.

Problem being I cant imagine Barca, Madrid, Bayern, PSG, City not being interested in these calibre of players

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

yea I will agree vidal is quality, but im not on the "he is worth 50m + boat"

He was poor in the champions league and in the semi final v benfica of Europa league he was anonymous. He plays in an extremely poor serie a

He was taken off after 85m v brazil when extra time was on the cards.

Spending 50m on a midfielder you have to go for Pogba imo

If you don't think Vidal is worth 50mn I can only assume you are living several years in the past, with regards to market valuations. 50mn today is about the same as 20mn was a decade ago in terms of transfer market values.

Your comment about the Brazil game is a wind up, pure and simple. In case you didn't notice it was very hot and humid, and he was knackered having covered possibly the most ground of anyone in the pitch.

Vidal is currently a lot better than Pogba. Not just better, a lot better. Pogba is dependent on others to help him excel, both Pirlo dictating possession and the tempo, and... Vidal dominating the centre of the pitch. Pogba has the potential to be one of the best CMs the world has seen in a long, long time, maybe even to be one of the best CMs ever. But he is not where some people seem to think he... yet. There are areas of his game that still need to improve a good deal, even though he is currently "FIFA/Pro EV great".

bangkok

Keno wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78601728

ah yea, 2 years ago the same time they wanted Nurin Sahin to sign!!!!!

where are the posts for before vidal signed for juve?

bmcc10

bangkok wrote: »

if he was that good then and was only cost €10 why didn't any of the English clubs go for him, city utd Liverpool arsenal Chelsea spurs even clubs lower down the table could have afforded his wages, why didn't one of the top side in Germany go for him, or barca or real Madrid?!

Ye he really scraped the barrel there with the minnows that is Juve.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

ah yea, 2 years ago the same time they wanted Nurin Sahin to sign!!!!!

where are the posts for before vidal signed for juve?

I'm sure HEadsot will oblige with some posts, I know he was screaming for him at the time.

bangkok

Billy86 wrote: »

If you don't think Vidal is worth 50mn I can only assume you are living several years in the past, with regards to market valuations. 50mn today is about the same as 20mn was a decade ago in terms of transfer market values.

Your comment about the Brazil game is a wind up, pure and simple. In case you didn't notice it was very hot and humid, and he was knackered having covered possibly the most ground of anyone in the pitch.

Vidal is currently a lot better than Pogba. Not just better, a lot better. Pogba is dependent on others to help him excel, both Pirlo dictating possession and the tempo, and... Vidal dominating the centre of the pitch. Pogba has the potential to be one of the best CMs the world has seen in a long, long time, maybe even to be one of the best CMs ever. But he is not where some people seem to think he... yet. There are areas of his game that still need to improve a good deal, even though he is currently "FIFA/Pro EV great".

ah here, leave it out :pac:

he was knackered?! 50m +??

Hank Scorpio

bangkok wrote: »

ah here, leave it out :pac:

he was knackered?! 50m +??

He's been injured and isn't fully fit, what's so hard to understand?

Maximus Alexander

bangkok wrote: »

yes past season, but like I said he is 27, talk of being the best centre midfielder in the world are OTT imo

Is there a special age you need to be to be the best midfielder in the world? Because I'd have thought around 27 was near perfect. It's literally the average physical and athletic peak for most men.

Mitch Connor

bangkok wrote: »

ah here, leave it out :pac:

he was knackered?! 50m +??

Van Persie was taken off while 1 down, must be crap.

Pogba was rested in the second game...RESTED.. 50million??

NeVeR

Here's a book you all can read

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

ah here, leave it out :pac:

he was knackered?! 50m +??

Congratulations in having one of the weakest arguments I have ever read. Have you been watching the World Cup? Have you seen the introduction of actual water breaks to help with dehydration and exhaustion for all the players? Did you watch extra time in the Costa Rica game last night? Or the Brazil/Chile match that you are actually referring to? Or around a dozen group stage games? Did you notice that in these matches every single player was knackered by 85 minutes?

Now who would you sign for our midfield, and at what cost?

And if it is Pogba, explain to us all who will do the legwork, possession and tempo control for us and who will actually battle in midfield for the ball, because Pogba has never shown he is able to do that at this point in his career.

bangkok

sometimes its better to buy a player coming into his prime years than one already there for example Herrera was a better signing for united than Fabregas was for Chelsea and will prove better in the long run.

We could have spent stupid money on Baines last year (thankfully we didn't) and signed shaw this year

On vidal, for anyone who sees him play and knows what he is about, yes he is 27 but his game is all high tempo, flying into tackles etc, he just had knee surgery, do you all honestly think he will be the same player in 3 years time??
to spend such a huge amount on a player I would rather invest it in a younger player to be honest and Pogba if available would be my choice.

bangkok

Billy86 wrote: »

Congratulations in having one of the weakest arguments I have ever read. Have you been watching the World Cup? Have you seen the introduction of actual water breaks to help with dehydration and exhaustion for all the players? Did you watch extra time in the Costa Rica game last night? Or the Brazil/Chile match that you are actually referring to? Or around a dozen group stage games? Did you notice that in these matches every single player was knackered by 85 minutes?

Now who would you sign for our midfield, and at what cost?

And if it is Pogba, explain to us all who will do the legwork, possession and tempo control for us and who will actually battle in midfield for the ball, because Pogba has never shown he is able to do that at this point in his career.

just on that Yesterdays match between Holland and mexico was the first match in the world cup that had an official water break...

that would be Herrera

Maximus Alexander

You'd comfortably get 4 peak years out of a player Vidal's age, barring a pretty serious injury or a loss of motivation.

Iseedeadpixels

Zidane and Figo were both in their late 20's when they got signed for massive money.

Quandary

Imagine signing Pirlo at 27. You'd have gotten 7 or 8 years of pure unadulterated quality out of him!! Obviously he has always played his game at a leisurely pace, but still!

bangkok

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Zidane and Figo were both in their late 20's when they got signed for massive money.

Real Madrid live on another planet!!

bangkok

Quandary wrote: »

Imagine signing Pirlo at 27. You'd have gotten 7 or 8 years of pure unadulterated quality out of him!! Obviously he has always played his game at a leisurely pace, but still!

totally different players, Pirlo smokes a cigar when he plays, vidal is a pitpull running around biting everyones leg

duffman13

bangkok wrote: »

Real Madrid live on another planet!!

They are not the only ones

Iseedeadpixels

bangkok wrote: »

Real Madrid live on another planet!!

We just signed a 18 year old for 30 million and paid 28 million for Fellaini.......

Al Capwned

Vidal. A proven absolutely brilliant player.

Available for £50m? Get it done Ed.

And as for no one wanting him since before he went to Juve, well...... You can search just as easily as I can.

Jan 2011 from Mitch

Players that we could sign and play in the CL.....

Hazard, Rodwell, Henderson, Pastore, Vidal.... there are loads that could add to our midfield options.

_____________
July 2011 from Le King

I'd like to see a much more ball playing defensive midfielder come in like Arturo Vidal. Who is just one of those players who isn't afraid to tackle, but can pick a pass and can get goals.

_____________
And ten days after he signed for Juventus from Headshot

juve got some deal on Vidal
absolute steal

Reedsie

Billy86 wrote: »

Congratulations in having one of the weakest arguments I have ever read. Have you been watching the World Cup? Have you seen the introduction of actual water breaks to help with dehydration and exhaustion for all the players? Did you watch extra time in the Costa Rica game last night? Or the Brazil/Chile match that you are actually referring to? Or around a dozen group stage games? Did you notice that in these matches every single player was knackered by 85 minutes?

bangkok wrote: »

just on that Yesterdays match between Holland and mexico was the first match in the world cup that had an official water break...

On the heat thing, an interesting article here and thoughts from football medicine specialist Michael Davison:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup/10933062/World-Cup-2014-The-real-reason-behind-the-flurry-of-goals-and-excitement-in-Brazil.html

More goals by substitutes have already been scored than in an other full World Cup.

The heat and humidity will deplete players’ levels of glycogen – the energy stored in muscles – which leads to loss in concentration or the ability for defenders to get to the right place at the right time, such as marking their opponent in the penalty area

bangkok

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/485774/Chile-star-Arturo-Vidal-PREFERS-Manchester-United-move

Maximus Alexander

Al Capwned wrote: »

*Sources and junk*

Sh*t son, you just got Capwned.

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

sometimes its better to buy a player coming into his prime years than one already there for example Herrera was a better signing for united than Fabregas was for Chelsea and will prove better in the long run.

We could have spent stupid money on Baines last year (thankfully we didn't) and signed shaw this year

On vidal, for anyone who sees him play and knows what he is about, yes he is 27 but his game is all high tempo, flying into tackles etc, he just had knee surgery, do you all honestly think he will be the same player in 3 years time??
to spend such a huge amount on a player I would rather invest it in a younger player to be honest and Pogba if available would be my choice.

Pogba a) would almost certainly never come back to Utd after how the g's finished, and b) is not "coming into his prime". He plays in a position that has a longer learning curve than probably any other on the pitch, and it is clear ot anyone who watches him consistently (and not just YouTube compilations) that he has a lot of developing still to do.

Baines is not and never was good enough for a title chasing team. That was just classic Moyes, who also pulled the plug on Herrera to get Fellaini by many accounts.

I would have any worries about Vidal being at his best for another 4-5 years, and he fits a major need of ours: to win now. Being Man Utd gave us a pass of one disastrous season, but a repeat of missing the CL spots would be severely pushing our luck.

And you have not explained who will dictate the tempo of the game, control possession, win the ball and co tribute the necessary legwork in midfield if we signed Pogba?

bangkok

Billy86 wrote: »

Pogba a) would almost certainly never come back to Utd after how the g's finished, and b) is not "coming into his prime". He plays in a position that has a longer learning curve than probably any other on the pitch, and it is clear ot anyone who watches him consistently (and not just YouTube compilations) that he has a lot of developing still to do.

Baines is not and never was good enough for a title chasing team. That was just classic Moyes, who also pulled the plug on Herrera to get Fellaini by many accounts.

I would have any worries about Vidal being at his best for another 4-5 years, and he fits a major need of ours: to win now. Being Man Utd gave us a pass of one disastrous season, but a repeat of missing the CL spots would be severely pushing our luck.

And you have not explained who will dictate the tempo of the game, control possession, win the ball and co tribute the necessary legwork in midfield if we signed Pogba?

I've already told you Herrera...quality player that does it all

Rubber_Soul

Bangkok does have a point (albeit poorly made) that on paper Pogba, at say £60m, represents better value than Vidal at £50m due to his age and quality. That's offset by the fact there's no guarantee that, assuming he'd even entertain the notion of rejoining us, we'd even have Pogba long-term. Signing Vidal though would also be a massive improvement to our side and as a result of the improved results we'd see with him in the side, we may find it easier to sign players of his standing in the future. There's more to value than the x number of years of his contract and fee.

Kylo Ren

What ever happened to Le King?

Billy86

bangkok wrote: »

just on that Yesterdays match between Holland and mexico was the first match in the world cup that had an official water break...

that would be Herrera

And a lot of others have looked like coming close. We've seen a lot of games slow to a snails pace in the last half hour because every outfield player is simply exhausted from the conditions.

And I dont think you are all too aware of the type of player Herrera is. He contributes on that end, but doesn't lead the defensive effort of a midfield. While I like him, I would not want him being the sole contributor in terms of work rate and aggression in a midfield battle by any means. Fletcher doesn't have the legs to help out on that end much anymore, it is not Carrick type of game, and otherwise the only other person who could help out would be Fellaini. And nobody wants to see that.

Schwiiing

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Bangkok does have a point (albeit poorly made) that on paper Pogba, at say £60m, represents better value than Vidal at £50m due to his age and quality. That's offset by the fact there's no guarantee that, assuming he'd even entertain the notion of rejoining us, we'd even have Pogba long-term. Signing Vidal though would also be a massive improvement to our side and as a result of the improved results we'd see with him in the side, we may find it easier to sign players of his standing in the future. There's more to value than the x number of years of his contract and fee.

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

Mitch Connor

Schwiiing wrote: »

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

on the other hand I reckon Woodward would love to rectify the f'up of Gill and Fergie.

Al Capwned

Schwiiing wrote: »

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

tbh the sight of him dominating the middle of the pitch, and holding a Premier League trophy over his head would get rid of that fairly quickly. Not that I think there would be any sense of embarrassment in any case if it were to happen.

Billy86

StarshipPooper wrote: »

Bangkok does have a point (albeit poorly made) that on paper Pogba, at say £60m, represents better value than Vidal at £50m due to his age and quality. That's offset by the fact there's no guarantee that, assuming he'd even entertain the notion of rejoining us, we'd even have Pogba long-term. Signing Vidal though would also be a massive improvement to our side and as a result of the improved results we'd see with him in the side, we may find it easier to sign players of his standing in the future. There's more to value than the x number of years of his contract and fee.

It would be a good point if it were a team without an immediate need in CM, which even with the Herrera signing we still clearly have. For a Madrid or Bayern, Pogba would be the better option for example.

But that is not the case with us. We have a massive pressing need in CM still and Vidal pretty much fits it like a glove. On top of that he is the far better player right here, right now. And we need to win right now, not to develop a sometimes brilliant, sometimes infuriating player with a tonne of upside but a lot of development still required.

And as you also said, he would never return to Old Trafford, especially so soon.

Rubber_Soul

Schwiiing wrote: »

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

I don't think either are going to happen anyway but there's been a fair few reports from decent journo's saying that Utd realise they made a mistake and have considered it.

bangkok

Schwiiing wrote: »

Imagine the embarassment of spending £60m on a player 2 years after Utd let him go for 0. Never gonna happen.

in fairness, they didn't let him go, he was out of contract, they offered him a new one and he refused it.

I would imagine as well that if they were going to sign one of the juve players, nani would be used in part exchange and his value would be in the 15-18m bracket and seeing as Juve took Pogba off United maybe they would sell him back at a cheaper price than say if he were going to chelsea

GavRedKing

bangkok wrote: »

in fairness, they didn't let him go, he was out of contract, they offered him a new one and he refused it.

I would imagine as well that if they were going to sign one of the juve players, nani would be used in part exchange and his value would be in the 15-18m bracket and seeing as Juve took Pogba off United maybe they would sell him back at a cheaper price than say if he were going to chelsea

Its not a charity :pac:

If Utd can offer Nani

We'd potentially offer Ramires.

If Juventus lose Vidal and Pogba CM is where they need to strengthen and if they make nearly 80/90/100 million for selling two players and can get in Ramries for nothing, thats a great deal and goes along way to replacing both those players.

Lukker-

bangkok wrote: »

in fairness, they didn't let him go, he was out of contract, they offered him a new one and he refused it.

I would imagine as well that if they were going to sign one of the juve players, nani would be used in part exchange and his value would be in the 15-18m bracket and seeing as Juve took Pogba off United maybe they would sell him back at a cheaper price than say if he were going to chelsea

I don't think that's how transfers work.

Rubber_Soul

bangkok wrote: »

and seeing as Juve took Pogba off United maybe they would sell him back at a cheaper price than say if he were going to chelsea

Out of the goodness of their heart? Sorry man that's just daft. They have a prized asset, they're going to try get maximum value from it.

bangkok

well Fabregas to Barcelona was a lower price as Arsenal had gotten him from barca in the first place, so to was pique back to Barca from man utd, its a kind of mutual repect between clubs when they get players on the cheap or free and are going to sell them back at a big price

Maximus Alexander

bangkok wrote: »

well Fabregas to Barcelona was a lower price as Arsenal had gotten him from barca in the first place, so to was pique back to Barca from man utd, its a kind of mutual repect between clubs when they get players on the cheap or free and are going to sell them back at a big price

Really poor comparison. Fabregas was a Barcelona youth product (from the age of 10) and is from a town 20km down the road from Barcelona. He wanted that move, that affects the price. Pogba would have no intrinsic connection to United.

Iseedeadpixels

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/485774/Chile-star-Arturo-Vidal-PREFERS-Manchester-United-move

Chile Star Arturo Vidal prefers Manchester United move, The club have been linked with a 50 million move for the player but according to ITK boards.ie poster Bangkok he is not needed, "50 million does not represent value we are not a mad club that spends crazy money on players" fellow boards.ie posters declined to comment due to severe embarrassment.

.