Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Lord TSC

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Woodward failed to sign players last summer, and he us the one in charge of signing them now. How people fail to see Woodward is a big part of the problem baffles me. Lvg has got van his list, Woodward has delivered nothing in a month and is seemingly no closer to delivering than he was a month ago. It's shambolic. Lvg improves the tactics and prep, imo, but he doesn't solve our inability to conduct transfer business efficiently or effectively.

It's not that people fail to see there's a problem there; it's the utter obsession with trying to paint Woodward as the worlds worst CEO that winds people up.

LVG handed Woodward a list in possibly the very worst month he could have handed him a list. Everything was going to be against the club getting signings done this month. Meanwhile, Woodward has obviously made a great step by appointing the top manager available, and will be looking to use the ENTIRE transfer window to rebuild the club, not just the first month.

I have no problem with people who show concern or say they are worried, but just like last summer, resort to words like "farce" and "shambolic" are hyperbolic, and if you jump to one end of the spectrum in your attacks on Woodward and the club, please don't be shocked when people resort to the other end when it comes to defending him...

Zico

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Woodward failed to sign players last summer, and he us the one in charge of signing them now. How people fail to see Woodward is a big part of the problem baffles me.

Moyes is wisely keeping his mouth shut about what went on last summer while he looks for a new job, but it'll be interesting to hear his take on Woodward's efforts once he feels comfortable to tell his side of the story.

Mitch Connor

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Regarding us not signing any of LVGs targets care to elaborate on how you know this?

Did I miss the announcement of some signings?

Zico

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Woodward has obviously made a great step by appointing the top manager available

He probably got a bonus for not hiring the worst unavailable manager.

glued

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Woodward failed to sign players last summer, and he us the one in charge of signing them now. How people fail to see Woodward is a big part of the problem baffles me. Lvg has got van his list, Woodward has delivered nothing in a month and is seemingly no closer to delivering than he was a month ago. It's shambolic. Lvg improves the tactics and prep, imo, but he doesn't solve our inability to conduct transfer business efficiently or effectively.

If Woodward was the problem then he would have been sacked by now. The people who are blaming Woodward are just looking for a scapegoat. Woodward is not that scapegoat.

You're being completely unrealistic if you expect us to sign top players this summer. There is nothing within the realms of possibility that will satisfy you this transfer window. We aren't in the Champions League anymore. All Woodward can do is make an offer; he can't make players sign. This clambering of hands for Woodward to step down is based on rumours, lies, delusion and foolishness.

I think we seriously need to do some deals but Woodward is only part of the puzzle. How people can't see that a new manager completely changing the transfer plans for a club could be in any way disruptive is quite amazing.

lordgoat

Zico wrote: »

He probably got a bonus for not hiring the worst unavailable manager.

+1

Yes well done Ed on not signing a **** manager. wtf?

lordgoat

glued wrote: »

If Woodward was the problem then he would have been sacked by now. The people who are blaming Woodward are just looking for a scapegoat. Woodward is not that scapegoat.

You're being completely unrealistic if you expect us to sign top players this summer. There is nothing within the realms of possibility that will satisfy you this transfer window. We aren't in the Champions League anymore. All Woodward can do is make an offer; he can't make players sign. This clambering of hands for Woodward to step down is based on rumours, lies, delusion and foolishness.

I think we seriously need to do some deals but Woodward is only part of the puzzle. How people can't see that a new manager completely changing the transfer plans for a club could be in any way disruptive is quite amazing.

See I disagree. If Manchester United in some eyes the biggest club going want a player they go after them. And the simple fact is there are alot of players (outside the top jamie redknapp player bracket) that will vastly improve our first 11. To not actively be pushing for this is not acceptable for one window. We are now on window 3 and so far for CM we are no closer to being anywhere near capable. Part of me still thinks it was unacceptable for SAF to not improve the CM but that's in the past. Just like Moyes didn't improve the CM. (If you claim Felliani improved our MF, then I disagree) Here and now it's window 3 the common factor is Woodward. He's closed 2 deals despite being linked to how many players? If you believe he was only in for 2 players fair enough!

Son Of A Vidic

lordgoat wrote: »

He's closed 2 deals despite being linked to how many players?

But weren't we linked last summer to something like 42-46 players, totaling around €1.2 billion in summer signings? Now I seriously doubt we missed out on 42 players last summer. Apart from maybe some feelers put out there, for all we know, LVG might have very well instructed there be no signings until he is back from the World Cup?

Lord TSC

lordgoat wrote: »

See I disagree. If Manchester United in some eyes the biggest club going want a player they go after them. And the simple fact is there are alot of players (outside the top jamie redknapp player bracket) that will vastly improve our first 11. To not actively be pushing for this is not acceptable for one window. We are now on window 3 and so far for CM we are no closer to being anywhere near capable. Part of me still thinks it was unacceptable for SAF to not improve the CM but that's in the past. Just like Moyes didn't improve the CM. (If you claim Felliani improved our MF, then I disagree) Here and now it's window 3 the common factor is Woodward. He's closed 2 deals despite being linked to how many players? If you believe he was only in for 2 players fair enough!

But this is it. You're picking one factor, saying it's the same, and then ignore every other factor not being the same.

So we ignore the fact last summer we had an unproven manager and a team who had just won the league. There was an argument to be made (agree or not) that there wasn't a huge rush on fixing anything other than CM, and we actually did bring in a player to address that issue. Moves were made last summer to address the biggest problem we were facing.

At Xmas, a time where it's always difficult to sign players, we were obviously a club in crisis with a manager sinking ever more out of his depth. Our league position was flagging. But again, we've made moves now to remove the biggest cause of that problem.

Since our season ended, we've removed one of the biggest problems facing the club and replaced him with a top level manager. Woodward will know he has to back that up with players now. And he still has loads of time to do it. Every report is we're trying to get the deals done, and we've been linked with how many dozen players. You can say we've not been successful, right, but we're obviously trying to address those issues. His primary concern though has to be on getting it done right as opposed to getting it done quick.

JerCotter7

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

But weren't we linked last summer to something like 42-46 players, totaling around €1.2 billion in summer signings? Now I seriously doubt we missed out on 42 players last summer. Apart from maybe some feelers put out there, for all we know, LVG might have very well instructed there be no signings until he is back from the World Cup?

People believing every transfer rumour are just making it way worse for themselves. Personally I check this thread about once a week at the moment because it has become very hard to read.

Son Of A Vidic

JerCotter7 wrote: »

People believing every transfer rumour are just making it way worse for themselves. Personally I check this thread about once a week at the moment because it has become very hard to read.

Same here, you can't keep up will all the transfer speculation. So I don't even bother with it. Like compiling a list of who I want us to sign, I don't bother because once you do that, you're emotionally investing in it. You then get sucked into the rumour mill and more than likely will end up disappointed.

Larry Wildman

glued wrote: »

Why would Vidal join United? He's rejected numerous offers over the past few years. He's one of the best in the world

Money?

He's one of the best in the world in a position which is a big problem for us.

Yes he's had offers but is there anyone offering him £300k a week?

We should "break the bank" to get him.

Unearthly

What's annoying me most is the obvious press briefings about transfers. The usually reliable journalists were reporting similar stories that there was a list of targets, and that they were confident in making 2 signings before world cup.

Then seemingly LVG has turned up a chance to sign some of these players. So is it a case that Woodward went boasting to the media about signing players he hadn't even consulted the new manager about?

Again all speculation on my part but that's my feeling and worry so far.

Larry Wildman

lordgoat wrote: »

See I disagree. If Manchester United in some eyes the biggest club going want a player they go after them. And the simple fact is there are alot of players (outside the top jamie redknapp player bracket) that will vastly improve our first 11. To not actively be pushing for this is not acceptable for one window. We are now on window 3 and so far for CM we are no closer to being anywhere near capable. Part of me still thinks it was unacceptable for SAF to not improve the CM but that's in the past. Just like Moyes didn't improve the CM. (If you claim Felliani improved our MF, then I disagree) Here and now it's window 3 the common factor is Woodward. He's closed 2 deals despite being linked to how many players? If you believe he was only in for 2 players fair enough!

Woodward could just be a scapegoat though. He can't force players to sign for United. Perhaps Moyes' list(s) contained guys who just had no interest in coming?

If Van Gaal gives Woodward a list with Vidal, Fabregas and Kroos on it (for example), and all three say "no", it's not Woodward's fault (necessarily).

Very difficult to say definitively whose fault any of our transfer woes are TBH. Frankly I'm kind of coming down in the "Fergie's neglect" camp. Because of his neglect of the midfield area, we're being forced to do too much in too short a window of time. Top teams should evolve over time rather than requiring massive overhauls.

Because if his achievements, for many he's above criticism but the reality is that Fergie is to blame for the Moyes debacle and the fact that our midfield is so poor relative to our peers.

Mitch Connor

Larry Wildman wrote: »

.

Because if his achievements, for many he's above criticism but the reality is that Fergie is to blame for the Moyes debacle and the fact that our midfield is so poor relative to our peers.

Disagree. He was at fault when he was in charge, but he isn't anymore. Our inability to form a midfield is now down to the people in charge now.

Look at Chelsea potential midfield.

.......matic..fabregas
Willian..Oscar.....hazard.

Only hazard was signed when fergie was in charge. I'd Chelsea were capable of doing such work it is delusional white washing to say its fergies fault we have not done similar in the same timeframe.

RobertKK

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Just wondering, is it possible for woodward to get sacked. Who is on top of him that could do so

Sacking Woodward would be a very bad decision, and the Glazers wouldn't dream of it.
In terms of running United's business side, he is doing a top job.

There is a case a director of football should be appointed - let Ed do what he is great at - running the business side of United, and have someone else to look after the hiring and firing of players.

Larry Wildman

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Disagree. He was at fault when he was in charge, but he isn't anymore. Our inability to form a midfield is now down to the people in charge now.

Look at Chelsea potential midfield.

.......matic..fabregas
Willian..Oscar.....hazard.

Only hazard was signed when fergie was in charge. I'd Chelsea were capable of doing such work it is delusional white washing to say its fergies fault we have not done similar in the same timeframe.

Fair enough.

I suppose the fact that Chelsea have been able to put together that midfield in such a short space of time is a function of Abramovich's spending power.

Personally I lay the blame squarely at Sir Alex's door. His neglect of midfield was outrageous and his "anointing" of Moyes was incredible.

The Glazers also have a lot to answer for in not ensuring that David Gill stayed on when they knew that Fergie was going. Replacing your greatest manager and your CEO in the same summer is bizarre.

Manutd_4life

RobertKK wrote: »

Sacking Woodward would be a very bad decision, and the Glazers wouldn't dream of it.
In terms of running United's business side, he is doing a top job.

There is a case a director of football should be appointed - let Ed do what he is great at - running the business side of United, and have someone else to look after the hiring and firing of players.

Agree with this, woodward seems like a top business man-great at sorting out comercial/sponsor deals. But in terms of getting players and transfer targets sorted:

Danye

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Personally I lay the blame squarely at Sir Alex's door. His neglect of midfield was outrageous and his "anointing" of Moyes was incredible.

I really don't understand how people have been blaming Fergie for the mess we find ourselves in. He left the incoming manager the league champions and access to funds to improve the squad. What more should he of done?

Of course he had to anoint Moyes. What was he suppose to do?

How Soon Is Now

The conversation never changes in here does it ? :pac:

I take it theres been more bad news?

Thecon21

Danye wrote: »

What more should he of done?

Of course he had to anoint Moyes. What was he suppose to do?

He should not of neglected United's midfield for so long as it was clear to all that it need a rebuild..


He didn't have to anoint Moyes, the next United manager should have been more of a careful decision with several candidates considered..

Larry Wildman

Danye wrote: »

I really don't understand how people have been blaming Fergie for the mess we find ourselves in. He left the incoming manager the league champions and access to funds to improve the squad. What more should he of done?

Of course he had to anoint Moyes. What was he suppose to do?

He left a squad with a midfield suffering from years of neglect that had somehow won the league.

And his choice for his successor was ludicrous - Sticking a guy who has never won a trophy and whose teams play pragmatic football in charge of Manchester United.

It's too easy to praise Fergie or to castigate Moyes by saying "sure that squad were champions". The reality is somewhat different - It was a miracle that we won the league. Basically a combination of RVP going gangbusters, a couple of guys having exceptional seasons and our rivals having bad seasons.

beno619

Fabregas links started before Fergies retirement was announced, Rooney was also on his way out. Fergie was preparing a overhaul something Moyes should have started but failed to do last summer.

Fergie got away with any apparent "neglect" by delivering title's. If Mourinho or Wenger won the league last season they would have been off the hook for "neglecting" forward positions.

Neeson

Lugano. Released by his club. Good cover for free.

Timmyctc

Neeson wrote: »

Lugano. Released by his club. Good cover for free.

Could hardly get a game for WBA. Hardly what we need tbf.

How Soon Is Now

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

The conversation never changes in here does it ? :pac:

I take it theres been more bad news?

No signings means the blame needs to be rolled out to someone. Sure Woodward is always a good shout for some blame. Despite the fact nobody actually knows what he's doing day to day. But let's assume we do, then quote that same assumption as fact over and over again until we get all mad and stuff; panties well and truly twisted.


It'll be a great summer

MagicMarker

Looking forward to seeing how Valencia performs.

Danye

Thecon21 wrote: »

He should not of neglected United's midfield for so long as it was clear to all that it need a rebuild..


He didn't have to anoint Moyes, the next United manager should have been more of a careful decision with several candidates considered..

But he clearly believed the midfield was good enough. He won 2 of the last 3 championships and only narrowly lost out on 3 out of 3 due to goal difference.

He DID have to anoint Moyes. If he didn't imagine how that would of went down? Imagine how poorer our results and performances would of been if Moyes HADNT of been backed publicly.

I agree THEY (the board) didn't have to give Moyes the job but after other candidates were considered, rejected and offered the job which they themselves rejected the conclusion was made that Moyes was the best option!

Danye

Larry Wildman wrote: »

He left a squad with a midfield suffering from years of neglect that had somehow won the league.

And his choice for his successor was ludicrous - Sticking a guy who has never won a trophy and whose teams play pragmatic football in charge of Manchester United.

It's too easy to praise Fergie or to castigate Moyes by saying "sure that squad were champions". The reality is somewhat different - It was a miracle that we won the league. Basically a combination of RVP going gangbusters, a couple of guys having exceptional seasons and our rivals having bad seasons.

Years of neglect but yet he won 2 of the last 3 titles and missed out on the third narrowly to goal difference. Throw a Champions League final appearance in 2011 it's easy to see why the man thought his midfield was ok?

I agree Moyes was a mad decision 100%.

How is it to easy to praise Fergie? He won the title in his last season with, in your own words a neglected midfield. Surely that deserves massive praise?

Hypothetical Question, if LVG doesn't sign anybody and wins the league with United this coming season, will people then give credit to Fergie for leaving him a good squad?

Deiseboy01

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Agree with this, woodward seems like a top business man-great at sorting out comercial/sponsor deals. But in terms of getting players and transfer targets sorted:

If you credit Woodward with being a top business man do you not think he may be able to handle hiring staff? Every senior business person I have worked with has had a very strong team under them. Its what makes them good business men to a large degree. its not a huge leap to believe Woodward is cabable of fulfilling this part of his role.

Larry Wildman

Danye wrote: »

Question, if LVG doesn't sign anybody and wins the league with United this coming season, will people then give credit to Fergie for leaving him a good squad?

That isn't gonna happen.

But if by some miracle it did happen, you'd have to think that Mata and Rooney would be front and centre. One of whom is a Moyes signing and one of whom was marginalised by Fergie.

I'm not out to get Fergie BTW...but I do blame him for certain things.

Danye

Larry Wildman wrote: »

That isn't gonna happen.

But if by some miracle it did happen, you'd have to think that Mata and Rooney would be front and centre. One of whom is a Moyes signing and one of whom was marginalised by Fergie.

I'm not out to get Fergie BTW...but I do blame him for certain things.

Oh I know it's unlikely but I just wanted to ask. Moyes took over the League Champions added £70 million worth of players to the squad we finish 7th and it's Fergie's fault?

I know your not, but some are though and I just think it's crazy.

bmcc10

Neeson wrote: »

Lugano. Released by his club. Good cover for free.

Are you joking?

Thecon21

Danye wrote: »

Oh I know it's unlikely but I just wanted to ask. Moyes took over the League Champions added £70 million worth of players to the squad we finish 7th and it's Fergie's fault?

I know your not, but some are though and I just think it's crazy.

Just to be clear also, I don't think at all that last seasons debacle was Fergie's fault.. But our midfield has been poor for some time now and should have been addressed in the past couple of seasons, again I'm not out to get Fergie either, I idolize the man for all he's done.

Vic Vinegar

bmcc10 wrote: »

Are you joking?

No, he likes to suggest comedy signings. Cattermole usually.

Danye

Thecon21 wrote: »

Just to be clear also, I don't think at all that last seasons debacle was Fergie's fault.. But our midfield has been poor for some time now and should have been addressed in the past couple of seasons, again I'm not out to get Fergie either, I idolize the man for all he's done.

I know but surely your able to understand why Fergie himself seen no reason to improve our midfield considering our success in recent seasons before his retirement.

Neeson

It's free so no harm. Experience in the dressing room sure even if no game time.

Rojiblancos

Valencia doing absolutely nothing for Ecuador, can't even remember hearing his name being mentioned in the first half

Mars Bar

Neeson wrote: »

It's free so no harm. Experience in the dressing room sure even if no game time.

You know that is complete rubbish and you know that we know it.

Timmyctc

Rojiblancos wrote: »

Valencia doing absolutely nothing for Ecuador, can't even remember hearing his name being mentioned in the first half

Heard it said loads.... Mind you it mighta been the other Valencia they are on about :pac:

munster87

Neeson wrote: »

Lugano. Released by his club. Good cover for free.

Absurd comment

bucketybuck

glued wrote: »

You're being completely unrealistic if you expect us to sign top players this summer.

Have we already gone from "this is an important summer transfer wise with a lot of work needed" to "completely unrealistic if you expect us to sign top players this summer".

bmcc10 wrote: »

Are you joking?

He is not joking and he is not being serious, he is doing that other thing.

Mr_Red

I think United will have a few signing already agreed but will wait until LVG to be in OT a few days before the names are released.

Zico

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

If you credit Woodward with being a top business man do you not think he may be able to handle hiring staff? Every senior business person I have worked with has had a very strong team under them. Its what makes them good business men to a large degree. its not a huge leap to believe Woodward is cabable of fulfilling this part of his role.

Jesus, that's just an amazingly vague collection of words.

MagicIRL

This is why the Soccer forum shouldn't be open to the public. Some of the posts in here lately... no words!

Professional Griefer

boooooo

wrong thread, anyways, boo Switzerland!

Lord TSC

Chatter on Twitter that De Gea has done his hip in and is out for the rest of the WC

Zico

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Chatter on Twitter that De Gea has done his hip in and is out for the rest of the WC

Hipster porn

Larry Wildman

Danye wrote: »

Oh I know it's unlikely but I just wanted to ask. Moyes took over the League Champions added £70 million worth of players to the squad we finish 7th and it's Fergie's fault?

I know your not, but some are though and I just think it's crazy.

The fact that we were league champions is a red herring. There were (and still are) fundamental problems within the squad. Most of them relate to the midfield. Sorry to labour the point but one man's fingerprints are all over David Moyes' calamitous reign and our terrible midfield...Sir Alex Ferguson.

Unearthly

MagicIRL wrote: »

This is why the Soccer forum shouldn't be open to the public. Some of the posts in here lately... no words!

Soccer forum has stupid posts 365 days of the year. We all secretly love the mayhem