Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Deiseboy01

martinr5232 wrote: »

I called my young lad Eric :-)

Denis

bucketybuck

nuxxx wrote: »

Been messing around with formations but could something like this work?

You know what I think every time I see one of these proposed formations?

Wayne Rooney, we shouldn't continue trying to shoehorn him in. Either play him up front or not at all.

Rayne Wooney

Rooney won't last long wide in a Van Gaal team, his showing for England at the World Cup and when he played left wing for us in Fergie's last season should be enough reason not to play him there, it wouldn't be long before he is benched or shipped off because it just doesn't work

The good thing about Van Gaal is that the team comes first with him, not shoe horning big names in unless it works with whatever system he plays

It's up front or nothing for me, he seems to have the idea that he will move back into CM later in his career but his touch has been atrocious for some time now and he'd be eaten alive playing against good midfields

Billy86

bucketybuck wrote: »

You know what I think every time I see one of these proposed formations?

Wayne Rooney, we shouldn't continue trying to shoehorn him in. Either play him up front or not at all.

Not at all then.

It's just that that's hard to do with the stupid contract he got under Moyes in few ways. I genuinely think that was one of the very biggest mistake the club has made in years.

UnitedIrishman

Billy86 wrote: »

Not at all then.

It's just that that's hard to do with the stupid contract he got under Moyes in few ways. I genuinely think that was one of the very biggest mistake the club has made in years.

Only good part of it is that its not actually 300k but largely incentive based. Could see him being shown the door under Van Gaal's reign though although its hard to know who would be after him for the price we'd be looking for him.

DARK-KNIGHT

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Only good part of it is that its not actually 300k but largely incentive based. Could see him being shown the door under Van Gaal's reign though although its hard to know who would be after him for the price we'd be looking for him.

chelsea

Billy86

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Only good part of it is that its not actually 300k but largely incentive based. Could see him being shown the door under Van Gaal's reign though although its hard to know who would be after him for the price we'd be looking for him.

Even if we accepted a low price, who would take on his contract? Incentive based or not it would send nearly all running for the hills and I don't know the odds of him accepting a pay cut. Maybe PSG or Monaco a few years back when they initially came into money but they've got considerably better options at this point.

fatherted1969

For me the main difference between Cantona and Saurez is that Cantona reacted to being abused by a scumbag that thought the price of the ticket entitled him to come down out of the stand and scream obsenities into his face.

Eric reacted, served his suspension and came back and nothing like that ever happened again. Utd rightly suspended him on the spot, they never tried to defend his actions unlike Liverpool who have come up with all sorts of excuses (Evra anyone) to defend him.

The biggest thing in all of this though is that Cantona at least reacted like a man, he never portrayed himself as the victim in it all and for that he'll always have my admiration for it. The antics of some professional footballers turns my stomach sometimes, (our own included) and if i'm honest it was something that i always hated about Heinze when he was with us. Its probably my GAA backround talking but i can't stand it

Spazdarn

Replacing Rooney with the likes of Cavani or whoever else would cost the bones of 50 million... on top of giving said player similar enough wages.

As far as I understand Rooney's getting the same wage but he's given his image rights which brings up his wage.

My only hope is the LVG constructs a strong enough midfield to allow players like Rooney to play as forwards. I don't want one of our better players tracking back at LB. Rooney should be high up the field, not covering for Michael Carrick.

Smegball

I've never seen the big deal in Cavani personally. However, I haven't watched much of Napoli or PSG. Anytime I've seen him play though he does not resemble a 50m + striker whatsoever.

MrBobbyZ

Agree regarding Cavani.
Also think we could do with players who are more comfortable on the wing rather than another striker playing wide, as Rooney and wellbeck have done.

The united squad is large. Very strong in certain areas (ie striker) and average in others (fullback, wing, centre mid).

It'l be fascinating to see what LVG makes of it.

FatherTed

bucketybuck wrote: »

I can think of one very important distinction between the Cantona and Suarez situations.

Why did Alex Ferguson stand by Eric Cantona when many people felt that he had gone too far and should be let go? It wasn't just because he was an important player, but also because Eric Cantona had a deep and abiding love for Manchester United, he was on record many times stating how much the club meant to him and he bought into the United culture completely. Don't forget, this is the guy who retired early rather than move abroad and rekindle his desire for football elsewhere, he didn't want to play for anybody but United.

Alex Ferguson clearly saw that if he stood by Cantona there was a high likelihood that Cantona would learn his lessons, that he would make the effort to stay out of trouble and repay the faith shown. And he was right.

Liverpool are now in a similar situation with Suarez, he has been banned again and what are they going to do with him? But does anybody think Suarez has the same love and loyalty to Liverpool that Cantona had to United? No chance.

Also, United suspended Cantona right away for the rest of the season which was 4-5 months. It was later the FA lengthened the ban into the next season. The opposite of Liverpool who make up support tee shirts instead.

MrBobbyZ

TheDoc wrote: »

Neil Ashton bungs out some serious muck in fairness.

He's been called up a few times by managers and players in press conferences, or elsewhere, over silly articles he wrote that were pure garbage in terms of tactics or formations, or what the plans were.

He's the dude AVB had beef with last year, over what I forget, but again might have been tactical discussion related, or something.

He's a decent host for Sunday Supplement but his actual journalistic work leaves a lot to be desired. He's probably a great read for the casual fan.

It was a Martin Samuel article that AVB was upset about. Took it out on Ashton because same newspaper.

Can't blame him really, Samuel can be a bit of a git at times.

Larry Wildman

Billy86 wrote: »

Even if we accepted a low price, who would take on his contract? Incentive based or not it would send nearly all running for the hills and I don't know the odds of him accepting a pay cut. Maybe PSG or Monaco a few years back when they initially came into money but they've got considerably better options at this point.

He's not on £300k a week, but notwithstanding that I don't think we'd have much problem offloading Wayne Rooney for north of £30m.

We see the flaws and the issues, but he's still a marquee player in world football.

PhlegmyMoses

Larry Wildman wrote: »

He's not on £300k a week, but notwithstanding that I don't think we'd have much problem offloading Wayne Rooney for north of £30m.

We see the flaws and the issues, but he's still a marquee player in world football.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to say Rooney is not on 300k per week. All reports at the time said his new deal was 250k per week plus 50k in some weird marketing deal. 250 with the potential for 300 is still a big deal and serves to make the original point re who could pay him those wages

UnitedIrishman

MrBobbyZ wrote: »

It was a Martin Samuel article that AVB was upset about. Took it out on Ashton because same newspaper.

Can't blame him really, Samuel can be a bit of a git at times.

You didn't see the bit Martin Samuel wrote today about United/Chelsea and Pogba?

"There are some very disturbing rumours going around about why Pogba left Manchester United. If they are true, it is fair to presume he will not be moving to Chelsea either, no matter how high the bid."

That's the kind of tripe stuff you'd see written about in the gossip celeb pages. Complete muck. And he was defending Suarez last week.

That's the Daily Mail for you.

keane2097

Rooney's image rights, even if they accounted for 100% of his take home, didn't appear out of the ether when he signed his latest contract. Whatever way you slice it United are down the same £300k that Rooney is up every week.

Donnielighto

anyone able to provide anything other than speculation on his wages?

Son Of A Vidic

Donnielighto wrote: »

anyone able to provide anything other than speculation on his wages?

Was thinking the same thing myself. Regardless of how many sports journalists have speculated on Rooney's salary. It doesn't qualify as tangible proof of earnings for me.

bmcc10

nuxxx wrote: »

Been messing around with formations but could something like this work? Arrow for Valencia should be straight, just a mistake

Push Rooney up top with RVP and Mata behind them, The width coming from the wing backs, Can't wait to see what LVG does with Rooney, everytime you try to figure out your team he's the one you struggle to fit in the system.

Spazdarn

bmcc10 wrote: »

Push Rooney up top with RVP and Mata behind them, The width coming from the wing backs, Can't wait to see what LVG does with Rooney, everytime you try to figure out your team he's the one you struggle to fit in the system.

Rooney - RVP
Mata
Herrera - De Jong - Kagawa
Shaw - Evans - Jones - Rafael
DDG

TheDoc

Iniesta made some compliments about LVG and somehow papers going with headlines "Iniesta hints at United move"

Getting silly now

tinofapples

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

You didn't see the bit Martin Samuel wrote today about United/Chelsea and Pogba?

"There are some very disturbing rumours going around about why Pogba left Manchester United. If they are true, it is fair to presume he will not be moving to Chelsea either, no matter how high the bid."

That's the kind of tripe stuff you'd see written about in the gossip celeb pages. Complete muck. And he was defending Suarez last week.

That's the Daily Mail for you.

What's the "disturbing rumours" ?

Donnielighto

tinofapples wrote: »

What's the "disturbing rumours" ?

Nothjing, just him being a troll.

ShooterSF

Woodward having a good summer so far but you think the fecker could have held off announcing one of the signings till today to break up the 2 day lull!

#woodwardout?

UnitedIrishman

Donnielighto wrote: »

Nothjing, just him being a troll.

That's it exactly. Either Samuel should say what he hears or say nothing at all.

Also maybe a mod can clarify, but did donnie just get a yellow for calling me a troll when he meant the journalist?

Lord TSC

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

That's it exactly. Either Samuel should say what he hears or say nothing at all.

Also maybe a mod can clarify, but did donnie just get a yellow for calling me a troll when he meant the journalist?

About to PM him now, don't worry, my mistake there....

Headshot

Lord TSC wrote: »

About to PM him now, don't worry, my mistake there....

I just knew it was a matter of time before the power went to the head, you and your itchy finger lol

Liam O

Lord TSC of House United Superthread takes no prisoners.

Sporting Director Augusto Ignacio

According to Sky Sports, William Carvalho can join United but for no less than £37m, which appears to be his release clause.

Sporting Director Augusto Ignacio wrote:

“It’s not like the old days when players left Sporting at any price."

“We are not concerned with William Carvalho because we have alternatives who will want to play as well."

“The termination clause ensures a great deal for Sporting. I am very pleased with the negotiations.”

Article from Sky Sports

£37m is roughly about €46.5m. With the rumoured €56m it will take to get Juventus to the negotiating table for Vidal, I would far rather the club to spend the extra €10m to secure the services of Vidal, the kind of midfielder we've been severely lacking for about 8 years now.

So if we can't get Vidal would people 'settle' for Carvalho? I would love to see Vidal in a United shirt a.s.a.p. but failing that, a centre 2 of Herrera and Carvalho would be a great coup for the new season until we could see about landing Strootman in January or next summer, IMO anyway.

DM_7

Can we ask boards to make the word troll appear like **** or ****

DM_7

Those sporting quotes are slightly out of context. They were on four four two site earlier and in the context of the sporting director saying they could cope with losing Carvalho as they are better at getting prices for players now. Used the buy out clause ad an example of how they do it. Said the lad can leave if anyone meets the clause but thats a given and didn't say the clause had to be met or sqy that it was negotiable (again as expected)

Liam O

stankratz wrote: »

According to Sky Sports, William Carvalho can join United but for no less than £37m, which appears to be his release clause.



Article from Sky Sports

£37m is roughly about €46.5m. With the rumoured €56m it will take to get Juventus to the negotiating table for Vidal, I would far rather the club to spend the extra €10m to secure the services of Vidal, the kind of midfielder we've been severely lacking for about 8 years now.

So if we can't get Vidal would people 'settle' for Carvalho? I would love to see Vidal in a United shirt a.s.a.p. but failing that, a centre 2 of Herrera and Carvalho would be a great coup for the new season until we could see about landing Strootman in January or next summer, IMO anyway.

Carvalho is worth no more than 20m. Vidal is worth no more than 30-35m imo. Anything over those numbers and it's a terrible deal for United. I can see the logic in the amounts paid for Herrera and Shaw but nobody of Carvalho's status should be moving for more than 25m and nobody of Vidal's age should be moving for more than 35m and even that's a stretch. Find the next Carvalho or Vidal. United have stood back and waited for players too much in recent seasons. Hopefully LVG is more proactive on this front.

redbaron_99

I have a feeling that vidal is the main target, and carvalho is the fall back option. Either would be a big improvement on what we have had to put up with in recent times. I also think that LVG will want to get strootman in January or next summer, if he is recovered from his surgery.

Herrera, carvalho, strootman would be excellent.

Herrera, vidal, strootman would be orgasmic.

redbaron_99

Liam O wrote: »

Carvalho is worth no more than 20m. Vidal is worth no more than 30-35m imo. Anything over those numbers and it's a terrible deal for United. I can see the logic in the amounts paid for Herrera and Shaw but nobody of Carvalho's status should be moving for more than 25m and nobody of Vidal's age should be moving for more than 35m and even that's a stretch. Find the next Carvalho or Vidal. United have stood back and waited for players too much in recent seasons. Hopefully LVG is more proactive on this front.

Find the next carvalho? He's only just turned 22...

Rayne Wooney

Vidal is going into his peak years, he's arguably the best midfielder in the world as is, if we got him for £40 million it would be a steal

FutureGuy

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Find the next carvalho? He's only just turned 22...

There's a 7-year old called Dennis from Co. Louth who I rate quite highly.

redbaron_99

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Vidal is going into his peak years, he's arguably the best midfielder in the world as is, if we got him for £40 million it would be a steal

I agree. For me he is the best central midfielder around at the moment. Has everything
If we signed him I would make us favourites for the title this season. And we'd be a ssrious prospect in Europe the following year.

redbaron_99

FutureGuy wrote: »

There's a 7-year old called Dennis from Co. Louth who I rate quite highly.

Get woody on it right away!!!

Whatsisname

Hypothetically speaking, imagine by January, we had Herrera, Vidal and Strootman in midfield. Going from one of the weakest in the premier league to potentially one of the strongest in the world. What a turn around that would be.

Donnielighto

Thanks for the support lads!

I beg your pardon Lord

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

Carvalho is worth no more than 20m. Vidal is worth no more than 30-35m imo. Anything over those numbers and it's a terrible deal for United. I can see the logic in the amounts paid for Herrera and Shaw but nobody of Carvalho's status should be moving for more than 25m and nobody of Vidal's age should be moving for more than 35m and even that's a stretch. Find the next Carvalho or Vidal. United have stood back and waited for players too much in recent seasons. Hopefully LVG is more proactive on this front.

In a normal world, maybe yes. But we are living in a world where David Luiz went for 50m (not sure whether it was euros or pounds but either way it's fúcking bonkers). In the last year or 2, it seems that transfer fees have gone up a few brackets, every club now is looking for €30m+ for their star man whether he's a world beater or not.

Right now, Manchester United need all they talent they can get and the very best going in MF. If we get our pants pulled down and dry-rid over the price it shouldn't matter too much with the health of the clubs finances, along with the rumoured £150-200m warchest. Now appears to be the time when we can actually spend this money, so I would like the club to go all out for Vidal who is now in the early stages of his peak years and would beast-up our MF something unreal.

With Carvalho only at 22 years of age, I don't think £37m would be that bad considering he could be the next Vidal himself. It's just with Vidal, we'd be getting proven quality for €56m, where as with Carvalho we'd be taking a chance on a player who although showing quality and potential, is still developing.

Donnielighto

Whatsisname wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, imagine by January, we had Herrera, Vidal and Strootman in midfield. Going from one of the weakest in the premier league to potentially one of the strongest in the world. What a turn around that would be.

Serious deja vu with this post

PhlegmyMoses

FutureGuy wrote: »

There's a 7-year old called Dennis from Co. Louth who I rate quite highly.

His first touch and close control aren't what we need from a midfielder :pac:

redbaron_99

Half the reason we are being forced to pay so much is that we allowed the squad to fall into disrepair and other clubs know we are desperate.
If we get a few top players in, we can add to it gradually in the coming years, take our time over signings and tell clubs f**k off if they grossly exaggerate a player'a value.
Short term pain, long term gain.

redbaron_99

FutureGuy wrote: »

There's a 7-year old called Dennis from Co. Louth who I rate quite highly.

Actually we should be looking for the next Dennis. He is obviously a well known player already.
His 4 year old brother has potential...

Larry Wildman

Liam O wrote: »

Vidal is worth no more than 30-35m imo. Anything over those numbers and it's a terrible deal for United

Sorry man, but I think that's an outrageous statement. In a world where Fellaini goes for £28m and Lallana goes for £25m, you think that (arguably) the best midfielder in the world is worth £30-35m? We're in a world where Real and Barca have their own tv deals and Cardiff got as much cash for finishing last as United did for winning the league the season before.

DARK-KNIGHT

Donnielighto wrote: »

Serious deja vu with this post

i posted nearly exactly that recently and think someone else did too

DM_7

Assuming big fees this season on any particular player doesn't stop Van Gaal getting the players he needs this summer in and or it doesn't damage next seasons budgets then I don't care what the costs will be this summer. The squad needs the money spent and the manager needs to have the right players to begin making changes to how United play.

Initially the fees spoken of had me worried but I am thinking United are spending big this summer as they are playing catch up and need to do it. Then in future seasons they can go back to adding smaller number of players more prudently as the starting point will be a strong one.

Smegball

For all the people saying Carvalho would be a good deal at 37m - have you actually seen him play?

Highly regarded yes, just unsure how people are so certain on him.

Vidal is a different story though.