ESP v NED 20.00 hrs BBC1/RTE2

Benimar

I don't think anyone saw that coming, but this Spanish team have being on the go for a long time and should have been freshened up after Euro 2012.

They can still get out of the group and give Brazil a good rattle but only if Del Bosque makes the big calls. I'm not normally in favour of blowing up the team but in this case I think major changes are needed.

Casillas, Pique, Alba and Xavi really need to be left out. Bring in Reina (De Gea is the future but I'm not sure I would give him a competitive debut in a do or die game), Juanfran, Martinez and Pedro. I didn't think Costa did much last night, but I'd play Conor Sammon ahead of Torres!

miralize

Benimar wrote: »

Casillas, Pique, Alba and Xavi really need to be left out....

Alba was fantastic last night. The CB's were all over the shop and Casillas was to blame for a lot of the goals.

Stargate

I thought Ron Vlaar had a great game , was impressed by him .

Corholio

miralize wrote: »

Alba was fantastic last night. The CB's were all over the shop and Casillas was to blame for a lot of the goals.

Alba stood off the wingers way too much or he got too close and allowed them to play a pass beyond him. His decision making wasn't great at times.

miralize

Corholio wrote: »

Alba stood off the wingers way too much or he got too close and allowed them to play a pass beyond him. His decision making wasn't great at times.

Well he did have to cover that shaky CB pairing. Up to 2-1 he was brilliant

Seaneh

miralize wrote: »

Alba was fantastic last night. The CB's were all over the shop and Casillas was to blame for a lot of the goals.

Alba proved that he isn't a natural full back last night. Decent on the ball, does nothing when the other team is in possession and his positional sense is terrible.

Doesn't help that he's got Pique and Ramos and their own personal quests to be play makers and goal scorers inside of him to deal with but none the less, the ducth fullbacks were definitely the winners last night.

Ulysses Gaze

Seaneh wrote: »

I'd love if Chile beat Spain.

The idea of Spain not making it out of the group stage would be glorious.

Chile are a shambles at the back. Australia could and probably should have had a draw last night.

Spain will pick it up in the next game and they should have enough going forward to beat Chile.

Seaneh

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Chile are a shambles at the back. Australia could and probably should have had a draw last night.

Spain will pick it up in the next game and they should have enough going forward to beat Chile.

I know Chile aren't great, but I'd still love if they beat Spain.

Dolph Starbeam

miralize wrote: »

Alba was fantastic last night. The CB's were all over the shop and Casillas was to blame for a lot of the goals.

I don't see how Casillas was to blame for "a lot of the goals", its seems to be only me though, the 4th goal was his fault yes, but the others he could do very little about imo.

First goal was taken brilliantly and he didn't have a hope of saving it. Pique and Ramos were to blame, as they were for the second goal also. The third goal he was fouled in the build up, that was 100% a foul and a terrible call by the ref at a crucial stage of the game. And the fifth goal he was left helpless by his defence again.

He made a couple very important saves during the game.

SlickRic

that was epic.

there was no excuse for that on the Spain side, they just weren't good enough.

Holland, in all honesty, didn't even have to be that good in the last half hour to get to 5. bits of genius from Van Persie and Robben for the first 2 goals, but then it was just painfully easy really.

at the top end of the game, tiki-taka has been found at this stage IMO.

pace and power is the name of the game, and it's glorious.

Mr Alan

SlickRic wrote: »

at the top end of the game, tiki-taka has been found at this stage IMO.

pace and power is the name of the game, and it's glorious.

What does the above even mean?!
Spain are the reigning world & European Champions ffs

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

What does the above even mean?!
Spain are the reigning world & European Champions ffs

yes they are.

from 2 years ago now.

I'm not saying they're a bad team ffs, just that things are a little different now.

but that style of play against the best teams, who have pace and power, seems to really really struggle badly now.

they'll go on to win the tournament and make me look a fool now, but they just look vulnerable.

Knex*

When Robben has his head right and is on form, he's as good as anyone.

Loved that game last night. Watched the 2nd half with a massive grin on my face.

LuckyLloyd

Mr Alan wrote: »

What does the above even mean?!
Spain are the reigning world & European Champions ffs

Things change fast in football. Power and pace on the counter has been generally prevailing since 2012.

Last night was wonderful really. Was a joy to watch Spain crumble in such an abject fashion. They got ripped open. Lucky to escape with just the five conceded.

Montroseee

RIP Tika Taka, 2008-14.

Optimalprimerib

My hate for spain is simple. The fans. Not the Spanish per se but the holier than thou cultists that treat the spanish team like an epiphany from the heavens.

I also grew a dislike to them in 1989 when they annialated ireland so much I was physically sick.

MisterAnarchy

SlickRic wrote: »

but that style of play against the best teams, who have pace and power, seems to really really struggle badly now.

That style of play will work against any team,full stop.

The problem is that Spain have regressed terribly in the last 2 years due to a number of reasons.
The core players are older ,they have had 1 summer off in 7 years ,they are burnt out .

Certain players have had poor injury hit seasons,Pique,Busquets,Xavi.
The high intensity pressing is gone as is the work rate and tempo.
Alonso,Xavi and Busquets are too slow now to play together .

Del Bosque should have sent a second string team to the Confederations Cup last season and given the players a rest and also replaced some of the key players .
Also playing with no recognised forward for the last few years upset the shape of the team and his insistence on starting Torres up front was lunacy.

Sure power and pace is great,there really is no substitute for pace but dont cod yourself, that Dutch team is very mediocre,their defence is very poor.

Vyse

Disappointed with the result last night (more shocked than anything) and to be honest I can't see Spain beating Chile. The last game they played against them (not so long ago) they drew, and it was a very hard fought draw.

The only positive is that there are sure to be a few shake ups post the World Cup. A few new players need to be introduced. I wouldn't necessarily abandon the style but I do think it needs to be mixed up with a more direct approach.

dfx-

SlickRic wrote: »

pace and power is the name of the game, and it's glorious.

Who are the successful sides with pace and power?

sabat

Probably my favourite type of goal-the kind you score playing heads and volleys with your mates after four cans on a sunny afternoon.

gosplan

I'd say this Spanish team is a little bit older and has lost it's hunger.

Sid Lowe talked about it on football weekly. From interviews with all the main stars, he got the impression that the first Euros was a massive celebration, the first World Cup the pinnacle.

But he said that to a man none of them enjoyed or celebrated the last Euros. Te hunger and joy was gone. They had to win that tournament to be the most successful international team ever but that was the only motivation and when it was over they were just relieved rather than celebratory.

So 2 years on, they're that bit older with nothing left to prove and you come up against a young tough team out for blood.

rob316

dfx- wrote: »

Who are the successful sides with pace and power?

Bayern were until pep did his worst to them

dfx-

Not really, Heynckes had Munich playing much the same way except for the CL semifinal that skews it. Second in possession in Europe only to Barcelona that season.

Backstreet Moyes

gosplan wrote: »

I'd say this Spanish team is a little bit older and has lost it's hunger.

Sid Lowe talked about it on football weekly. From interviews with all the main stars, he got the impression that the first Euros was a massive celebration, the first World Cup the pinnacle.

But he said that to a man none of them enjoyed or celebrated the last Euros. Te hunger and joy was gone. They had to win that tournament to be the most successful international team ever but that was the only motivation and when it was over they were just relieved rather than celebratory.

So 2 years on, they're that bit older with nothing left to prove and you come up against a young tough team out for blood.

I highly doubt any player would lack the motivation to win the worlds biggest competition.

The fact is they are older and teams are better prepared to set up against their tika taka style.

unkel

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Up until David Silva misses the chance to put Spain 2-0 ahead this was a football masterclass, an orchestra of flowing, one touch football. To say that Xavi, Iniesta, Silva ect. can't do it, the first half of that game suggests otherwise entirely.

We were all watching Spain vs Holland live last night. Maybe you were accidentally watching the 2010 final again on youtube?

trashcan

yohan the great wrote: »

They win almost every knockout game 1 nil. What's to like?

Um, let's see - skill, superb passing, some great goals, wonderful pressing of the ball at their best. It mystifies me that people who like football would find that boring. So, they keep possession, since when is that a crime ? It's like people want Spain to give the ball away for the sake of it. Would you honestly prefer them to play like a Jack Charlton team ?

They have only won some some games by a narrow margin because a lot of teams decided that the only way they could cope against them was to sit back and pack their defence. That's not Spains fault.

Timmyctc

trashcan wrote: »

Um, let's see - skill, superb passing, some great goals, wonderful pressing of the ball at their best. It mystifies me that people who like football would find that boring. So, they keep possession, since when is that a crime ? It's like people want Spain to give the ball away for the sake of it. Would you honestly prefer them to play like a Jack Charlton team ?

They have only won some some games by a narrow margin because a lot of teams decided that the only way they could cope against them was to sit back and pack their defence. That's not Spains fault.

They show, by and large, deplorable sportsmanship too tbf