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Management company will remove all services to the apartment rented by us

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    #152
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Cyrus wrote: »
    The management company can't deal with the tenant, the tenant is wholly inconsequential to them.

    And that is not what I said Cyrus. What I said was;
    They dont' want to deal with the tenant, and apparenty don't want to deal with the leaseholder, yet they're perfectly happy to harass & accuss the tenant demanding they contact the lease-holder for the management

    So which is it? The management company can't deal with the tenant? or they can deal with the tenant when it suits them to hold the tenant responsible? Can't have it both ways.
    The management fee pays for a number of shared services one being the transport of water from a communal tank to a unit. No fee no service, how is that so difficult to understand .

    Again; you cannot sign away basic rights; which provision of water would come under. By withdrawing this particular service, the management company themselves would be in breach of the law of the land by denying a basic right to a resident of the block. It's a whole other kettle of fish to removal of parking facilities or key fobs.


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    #153
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 20,021 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Lemming wrote: »
    And that is not what I said Cyrus. What I said was;



    So which is it? The management company can't deal with the tenant? or they can deal with the tenant when it suits them to hold the tenant responsible? Can't have it both ways.



    Again; you cannot sign away basic rights; which provision of water would come under. By withdrawing this particular service, the management company themselves would be in breach of the law of the land by denying a basic right to a resident of the block. It's a whole other kettle of fish to removal of parking facilities or key fobs.

    The actions of the management co are against the unit owner, not the tenant, how are they holding the tenant responsible? the tenant, as ive said before, is inconsequential to them, as they have no relationship with or obligations to them.

    Which law would the management company be breaking exactly by withdrawing services that havent been paid for?

    You will note the government are going to start charging for water, and whilst they have said they wont cut people off for not paying its nothing to do with any law, its a policy decision.

    Very interested to see what law exactly you think is being broken.


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    #154
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    quietsailor wrote: »
    The electricity will probably come into at a central point - called a central distribution board or something like it - and then depending on the number of apartments per floor, number of floors, number of blocks in the complex there can be levels of sub-distribution board.

    If you had 500 apartments over 10 floors and spread across 4 blocks within one complex the ESB aren't going to run 500 individual wires, they'll run one or two big wires and then the electricity gets divided out

    Disregarding individual units, there is also another general electricity bill covered by service charges which is for everything from street lighting to communal block lighting.

    As for one person taking legal action against the management company: what happens if the MC is ruined financially as a consequence and can't provide services for the other 100s of owners or local contractors blacklist the development?

    That's Ireland though. Whether it's clamping, bills, or any other form of personal reproducibility - it's all about your corner and fcuk everybody else that are mug enough to act in common good.

    I've every sympathy for the OP and would personally try and work something out but the landlord is making a mug of the MC and the OP.

    We deal with these people all the time and they're laughing at you.


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    #155
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Lantus wrote: »
    You are not being victimised by the management company, you are (have) been victimised by the unit owner. They failed to pay their service fees (probably a long time ago) and their mortgage it seems as you have to stop paying for years and years before the bank move to repossess.

    Eh they are being victimised by the management company, because the management company appears to have decided to put the squeeze on the tenant because either they can't be ar**ed or are having no luck chasing the landlord, who I presume is still legal owner.

    The tenant is getting screwed over.

    I think this thread gives a fair idea of who around here are property owners with management charges, because they immediately state that the management company is right and the tenant should chase the landlord.
    I guess the attitude is screw someone, and the tenant is the someone here, in the hope something falls out.
    It is picking on a convenient target.

    I would also agree with the poster about how tenants often get short shrift from management companies if they are looking for anything, but now that they want their dosh they are the first targets.
    Lantus wrote: »
    The management company as a matter of last resort is now having to take regrettable action against the unit owner.

    The thing is, it is not regrettable action against the owner, it is against the tenant.
    The owner doesn't even receive the rent anymore if there is a rent receivor in place.
    tinkerbell wrote: »
    Why is it sickening? The management company is made up of all the unit owners of the estate. So you think that the other unit owners should fund services to the OP who is not even an owner of the estate, just because the OP's landlord (ie another unit owner) won't pay their fair share of charges incurred to provide services to the estate? That's ridiculous. You mention an Irish solution to an Irish problem - no. It's people expecting to get free services and not pay for them.

    It's all about ownership.

    Why the hell doesn't the management company go to the owner.
    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    I think that the removal of the LL's source of income will likely be the thing that prompts them to pay up

    Ehh if there is a rent receivor in place they have lost the income already.
    If the system worked in this country they would probably be losing the property as well so what will management company do then ?

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #156
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 20,021 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    jmayo wrote: »
    E
    I think this thread gives a fair idea of who around here are property owners with management charges, because they immediately state that the management company is right and the tenant should chase the landlord.
    I guess the attitude is screw someone, and the tenant is the someone here, in the hope something falls out.
    It is picking on a convenient target.

    Imagine that, people who own properties and who pay their sizeable management charges every year agreeing that affirmative action should be taken against non paying property owners.

    What has the world come to


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    #157
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    Ultimately tenants are not responsible for anything in a managed development. They can up sticks and walk away at any time they like. The unit owners and company are legally responsible for the development however.

    The tenant is the middle man in many respects but the landlord happily put them there and then took all his legal requirements such as the tenancies act 2004 and the contract lease which he is bound by and ensures the wellbeing of any tenants in his property if he rents it out and just decided to toss these documents to the wind.

    It is shameful to think that a landlord can do this while taking rent money and it the management company that gets the stick. No wonder so many landlords are doing it! You can screw over your tenants and just refuse to be contacted and lie back and wait for people to accuse another body of causing the problem when they try to protect the development and all the other hard working decent unit owners who do pay their fee's!

    Management company - its not a charity or an organisation that provides free money to spongers. Its a business and sometimes directors need to put on a hard business hat and do what they need to do for the benefit of the company. I wouldn't want to see tenants get unnecessarily affected but at the end of the day the company's operation is my number one priority if I was a director in that development I would notify the rent receiver of my intention to withdraw services and give enough notice for the tenant to vacate and then carry out every service withdrawal I could within reason and legal boundaries. Fair but firm.


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    #158
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    No feedback from the OP this week?


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    #159
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    athtrasna wrote: »
    No feedback from the OP this week?

    I asked about contacting for repairs and they said how they did it and that they were making contact with the current landlord that way and awaiting a response. I'm not in any way clear why this wasn't done the moment that the parking space became an issue.


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    #160
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    Guys thanks for your comments. We have contacted the rent receiver and asked id they could take any actions against the management company. I was told that MC cannot removed services from the apartment and their solicitors have come across this before on a couple of occasions, they have even come across this man's company before.
    In their opinion the management company has no legal right to cut off any of the services that have been mentioned. As a matter of fact to do so is a criminal offence and they would expect us to call the Garda.
    I am sick worried what will happen on Monday (from that day all service will be removed from the apartment), I called ESB and the gas company, both have confirmed that they can only cut off their services. But I still have a bad feeling about that....
    This is a bloody nightmare and I do not understand why we have been punished for paying our bills on time and being a good tenant...


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    #161
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Sandra_Silver wrote: »
    This is a bloody nightmare and I do not understand why we have been punished for paying our bills on time and being a good tenant...

    Ask your landlord to explain, since he is the one who has ultimately caused all these hassles by not paying his fees. You have done what is expected of you, but the landlord hasn't been as decent.

    Hopefully it will all get sorted, and you can go back to living in peace.


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    #162
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Sandra_Silver wrote: »
    Guys thanks for your comments. We have contacted the rent receiver and asked id they could take any actions against the management company. I was told that MC cannot removed services from the apartment and their solicitors have come across this before on a couple of occasions, they have even come across this man's company before.
    In their opinion the management company has no legal right to cut off any of the services that have been mentioned. As a matter of fact to do so is a criminal offence and they would expect us to call the Garda.
    I am sick worried what will happen on Monday (from that day all service will be removed from the apartment), I called ESB and the gas company, both have confirmed that they can only cut off their services. But I still have a bad feeling about that....
    This is a bloody nightmare and I do not understand why we have been punished for paying our bills on time and being a good tenant...

    The action the rent receiver should be taking is PAYING THE MANAGEMENT FEES! OP they are totally playing you and they are the ones punishing you. Why can't you see this?


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    #163
    El_Dangeroso
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    Why do I feel like we're not getting the full story here? I'd be livid if I lost my parking space that I was demonstrably paying for.


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    #164
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    El_Dangeroso wrote: »
    Why do I feel like we're not getting the full story here? I'd be livid if I lost my parking space that I was demonstrably paying for.

    It doesn't add up. The MC have been unable to contact the rent receiver but the OP has? Parking space given up without a fight? Blaming the MC and not seeing that the landlord/rent receiver is at fault? It makes little or no sense.


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    #165
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    We contacted receiver re parking space (it was about 2 years ago) and were told to rent a car space from a third party and deduct the fee from our rent. I believe the MC was in touch with rent receiver. We were also told that all fees will be paid and that there was nothing to be worried about. until now


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    #166
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    we have provided the MC with rent receiver details, copy of a new contract etc... They know where to find the receiver


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    #167
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Sandra_Silver wrote: »
    We contacted receiver re parking space (it was about 2 years ago) and were told to rent a car space from a third party and deduct the fee from our rent. I believe the MC was in touch with rent receiver. We were also told that all fees will be paid and that there was nothing to be worried about. until now

    Well that's a lot of new information!

    The bottom line is that the fee situation is between your rent receiver and the management company. If they don't pay the fees, any inconvenience caused to you is the responsibility of the rent receiver. You have no issue or relationship with the management company. The management company are genuinely not the bad guys in this situation.


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    #168
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    in my opinion MC arent good guys either as they are targeting us instead of rent receiver/ landlord etc


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    #169
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Sandra_Silver wrote: »
    in my opinion MC arent good guys either as they are targeting us instead of rent receiver/ landlord etc

    Are they contacting you directly or the occupier/unit number?


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    #170
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    Unit number, by post, by email and phone


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    #171
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Sandra_Silver wrote: »
    Unit number, by post, by email and phone

    Post should be addressed to the occupier and the unit number. Direct personal contact should only happen in case of emergency. How did they get your contact info?


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    #172
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    I called them after they kicked us from the car space, they asked for my details.


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    #173
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Sandra_Silver wrote: »
    I called them after they kicked us from the car space, they asked for my details.

    You should have just called your landlord as your contract including parking was with them. Management company wouldn't have your details then. Your only relationship is with your landlord. Now that you've given the MC your details you have left them open to contacting you. Remember the parking thing will probably look to them like it did to us til you gave us more info, if they think you took it lying down then it's not surprising that they think something isn't right.

    All that aside, if they contact you directly again direct them to your rent receiver and warn them that further non emergency direct contact constitutes harassment.


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    #174
    Clearlier
    Registered Users Posts: 4,454 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    athtrasna wrote: »
    You should have just called your landlord as your contract including parking was with them. Management company wouldn't have your details then. Your only relationship is with your landlord. Now that you've given the MC your details you have left them open to contacting you. Remember the parking thing will probably look to them like it did to us til you gave us more info, if they think you took it lying down then it's not surprising that they think something isn't right.

    All that aside, if they contact you directly again direct them to your rent receiver and warn them that further non emergency direct contact constitutes harassment.

    I think that this is bad advice. You're much better off being aware that something might happen because they contact you directly than not being aware because your new landlord doesn't communicate or pay their bills.

    It seems clear that your landlord is screwing you over. If it's two years since the problem arose with the parking space and the remedy then was to rent another space rather than pay the bills that are due the fact that you have continued to do that and not been given back the parking space associated with the apartment suggests that the bills have continued to remain unpaid. In those circumstances it would seem that the MC have been slow to act.

    Given the arrangement made in respect of the parking space has a similar solution to the MC fees been suggested by you or the landlord at any stage?

    There are alternatives that I can think of but what do you think that the MC should do?

    I'd like to see the landlors brought to court. I still don't understand why the MC won't contact the new landlord. Have they not been told of the change?


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    #175
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭jd


    Clearlier wrote: »
    I still don't understand why the MC won't contact the new landlord. Have they not been told of the change?
    The new "landlord" is in fact a rent receiver. He does not own the property. He does not have a legal relationship with the management company. Rent receivers will sometimes insist that it is still the owner who should pay the management charges


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    #176
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    I had contacted the rent receiver re parking spaces by email, also left numbers of voice mails before we contacted the managing company. I also posted a registered letter to the rent receiver informing that the rent will be suspended until the issue with the car park is solved. nothing has been done. then I contacted the managing company. MC suggested that we should pay the rent directly to them in order to cover the arrears. Unfortunately I cannot do that without a court order. As far as I am aware they took a legal action re my landlord


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    #177
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭jd


    Is it a court appointed receiver or one appointed according to the terms of the landlord's mortgage?


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    #178
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    I have no idea, we received a letter from the receiver and a new contract


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    #179
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Cyrus wrote: »
    Imagine that, people who own properties and who pay their sizeable management charges every year agreeing that affirmative action should be taken against non paying property owners.

    What has the world come to

    The problem is the only one suffering from this affirmative action is the tenant.
    I would have no problem if the owner was actually the occupier and were bearing the brunt of your affirmative action, but they aren't.
    Hell they aren't even in receipt of the rent anymore so if the tenant deducted the management fees from this it won't have an affect on the landlord.

    It is like the MC can't find anyone responsible so the easy mark is the tenant.

    Does anyone know if the MC have initiated legal proceeding against the landlord ?
    And if not then why ?

    This can't be a one off and can someone explain how are situations like this handled in normal functioning countries where defaulting property owners have their unpaid for properties confiscated ?

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #180
    Sandra_Silver
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Sandra_Silver


    The rent receiver has reply to me today
    "We have written to them (management company) 6 times without reply. Our argument is quite simple, we are quite happy to pay the management charge but what we aren't going to do is pay the management charge for the period before us taking control of the properties. Never once have they attempted to engage with us. What we did get was lots of bad language and the attitude that you have come across yourself."
    Its clearly that MC does not want to solve that problem


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    #181
    Tiger Mcilroy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭Tiger Mcilroy


    Sandra_Silver wrote: »
    The rent receiver has reply to me today
    "We have written to them (management company) 6 times without reply. Our argument is quite simple, we are quite happy to pay the management charge but what we aren't going to do is pay the management charge for the period before us taking control of the properties. Never once have they attempted to engage with us. What we did get was lots of bad language and the attitude that you have come across yourself."
    Its clearly that MC does not want to solve that problem

    In fairness they took over the apartment and as such in my opinion would be liable for any outstanding fees and then they can chase the landlord.

    I would cut my losses if i was you.


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