England v Italy 11 PM. (Mod warning linked in OP)

Panthro

kryogen wrote: »

Terry is the best central defender in the Premier League is he Eamon? The best in England eh?

He "by a mile" bit was OTT.
Terry's been up in there this season IMO though, no question.

Umadbrah?

rte panel are hilarious

Skylinehead

kryogen wrote: »

Terry is the best central defender in the Premier League is he Eamon? The best in England eh?

I hate John Terry.

He was miles better than Kompany this season. Kompany made multiple howlers, Terry I can't remember any.

the incredible pudding

LightningBlue wrote: »

Johnson was on the penalty spot for Balotelli's goal... Classic Glen.

To be fair to him, he was tracking his runner. Cahill was completely at fault and lost his man. I'm a big critic of Johnson and don't think he should be in the starting line up but he (surprisingly) didn't do too much wrong defensively tonight.

Nuri Sahin

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I still find it absolutely baffling that Milan let Pirlo leave on a free.

He wasn't performing anywhere near the standard he has been displaying since leaving Milan. The move rejuvenated him big time.

shamrock55

kryogen wrote: »

I'm with Giles on this one, Gerrard wasn't getting near the ball and it would have been pretty soft

Ffs gerrard touches the ball past him, the italian comes into the side of him without any attempt to get the ball, that my man is a penalty 100%

kryogen

Panthro wrote: »

He "by a mile" bit was OTT.
Terry's been up in there this season IMO though, no question.

No argument that Terry had an Indian Summer season, but the way Eamo is going on is a bit mad Ted

Boom__Boom

kryogen wrote: »

I'm with Giles on this one, Gerrard wasn't getting near the ball and it would have been pretty soft

Even from his body language he knew he wasnt going to get it.

People talking up England's performance in the 2nd half are completely ignoring that for the Italians winning a match by 1 goal almost has more cache than winning by 2.

Lucas Hood

Dapics wrote: »

The fact that Pirlo's game does not require speed whatsoever leads me to believe we will see the maestro for a while yet.

I think I read the other day he's retiring from internationals after the World Cup.

the incredible pudding

Skylinehead wrote: »

I hate John Terry.

He was miles better than Kompany this season. Kompany made multiple howlers, Terry I can't remember any.

He was poor against palace, otherwise he was generally excellent

HaveASnickers

I thought Gerrard should have went off instead of Henderson. Henderson would have done what Gerrard did much better.

Sterling was excellent.

I thought they should have put on Lambert, many times there was a great position for a cross but they played it back because they had no one to cross it to.

shamrock55

tupac_healy wrote: »

Doesn't seem to bother Pirlo..... Does the same job, only miles and miles better

No he doesnt, pirlo plays behind the strikers

kryogen

shamrock55 wrote: »

Ffs gerrard touches the ball past him, the italian comes into the side of him without any attempt to get the ball, that my man is a penalty 100%

Yeah, I have read a few of your posts in this thread so you will forgive me if I don't pay too much attention to this won't you?

It has been pointed out already, he wasn't getting near the ball, which was going out of play, and it was a shoulder.

Nuri Sahin

shamrock55 wrote: »

No he doesnt, pirlo plays behind the strikers

U wut?

Gbear

Skylinehead wrote: »

I hate John Terry.

He was miles better than Kompany this season. Kompany made multiple howlers, Terry I can't remember any.

There's a difference between playing in Chelsea's back 4 and teams who are more attacking though.

It's a meaningless distinction anyway - a defender will defend best in a style of play that suits them - Kompany was part of pretty solid defence in an incredibly attacking team that won the league.

Terry was part of the most attritional and disciplined defensive team in the league.

Neither might be the right choice as England's CB.

Cahill and Jagielka is about as solid a pairing as any team at the WC has.

Wilberto

I must be the only Irishman to still love Thierry Henry. I mean, he's sitting alongside two Englishmen on the panel* and he has a better command over the English language than both of them combined!

Oh and Rio is arguably the worst panellist ever. He's even worse than Eamon Dunphy and Pat Dolan, and that's quite an achievement.



*Panel! Not including the presenter.

tupac_healy

shamrock55 wrote: »

No he doesnt, pirlo plays behind the strikers

Of course he does..... How many times has Pirlo picked the ball up deep in the game and either sprayed passes or played simple 1-2s around the centre circle?


Behind the strikers, yeah right

kryogen

Skylinehead wrote: »

I hate John Terry.

He was miles better than Kompany this season. Kompany made multiple howlers, Terry I can't remember any.

He didn't just refer to this season though?

Also, if this season is so important to people like Hodgson then what in the name of **** is Jack Wilshire doing in Brazil at all?

How many Kompany howlers can you list off the top of your head, I will get you rolling with the Liverpool game.

Lennonist

Dempsey wrote: »

Anyone have the stats for ground covered by players in this game?

Pirlo was peerless. The Italian second goal was a sight to behold. It's a way to play, not the only one. Italy nearly always beat England. Lots of variables there dude.

efb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE029unHEFM

Gary's big question...

DerekDGoldfish

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I still find it absolutely baffling that Milan let Pirlo leave on a free.

He had had a lot of injuries and they offered him a 1 year contract as they did with all over 30 players (which they had a lot of at the time). Juve offered him a 4 year deal which Milan couldn't match for fear all the other old players would demand similar deals.

It was probably the correct decision at the time, not even mystic meg could have predicted him returning to his former glories so quickly and lasting for so long.

shamrock55

kryogen wrote: »

Yeah, I have read a few of your posts in this thread so you will forgive me if I don't pay too much attention to this won't you?

It has been pointed out already, he wasn't getting near the ball, which was going out of play, and it was a shoulder.

Ha ha carry on lad , you obviously paid attention to it if you reponded to it:D

Strongbow10

Gerrard is a huge problem playing the role he does at this level. He doesn't have the tools unfortunately.

Talk of having their own Pirlo in Gerrard, is absolute nonsense.

The problem with England is that after all this time playing together they are still a team of individuals all trying off the cuff moves individually.

You hear of some top players sacrificing themselves for the greater good of their team but with England you have some mediocre players unwilling to sacrifice themselves.

England have consistently tried to shoe horn their premier league star players into a functioning XI and it just doesn't work that way.

All this talk of wide left, wide right, central striker is pure nonsense aswell. Rooney should be capable of interchanging all 3 positions throughout a game consistently. Thats how the world class players manage to perform.

Its all about game intelligence and tactical awareness at the end of the day, and the English players seem far too rigid. And the ones who do have a brain are quickly brought around to that way of thinking after bedding in.

kryogen

shamrock55 wrote: »

No he doesnt, pirlo plays behind the strikers

Skylinehead

kryogen wrote: »

He didn't just refer to this season though?

Also, if this season is so important to people like Hodgson then what in the name of **** is Jack Wilshire doing in Brazil at all?

How many Kompany howlers can you list off the top of your head, I will get you rolling with the Liverpool game.

There was a hilarious own goal (Fulham?) and when Demichelis got sent off against Barcelona, that was Kompany playing Messi onside. Horribly. There are more, but I'm tired :pac:

Dempsey

Lennonist wrote: »

Pirlo was peerless. The Italian second goal was a sight to behold. It's a way to play, not the only one. Italy nearly always beat England. Lots of variables there dude.

Any stats though. :pac:

I'm thinking that Pirlo covered more ground than any England midfielder again.

SeanJ09

Some nice Liam Brady Arsenal Bias toward Jack Wilshere here.

kryogen

Strongbow10 wrote: »

Gerrard is a huge problem playing the role he does at this level. He doesn't have the tools unfortunately.

Talk of having their own Pirlo in Gerrard, is absolute nonsense.

The problem with England is that after all this time playing together they are still a team of individuals all trying off the cuff moves individually.

You hear of some top players sacrificing themselves for the greater good of their team but with England you have some mediocre players unwilling to sacrifice themselves.

England have consistently tried to shoe horn their premier league star players into a functioning XI and it just doesn't work that way.

All this talk of wide left, wide right, central striker is pure nonsense aswell. Rooney should be capable of interchanging all 3 positions throughout a game consistently. Thats how the world class players manage to perform.

Its all about game intelligence and tactical awareness at the end of the day, and the English players seem far too rigid. And the ones who do have a brain are quickly brought around to that way of thinking after bedding in.

Really?

So unless a striker can play anywhere along the forward line, up top or support line, he is never going to reach a level deemed world class?

Drogba never got your memo. RVN either to name but two

Lennonist

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Some nice Liam Brady Arsenal Bias toward Jack Wilshere here.

I don't get why Brady appears to be anti Italian. He spent most of his career in Italy.

Lennonist

Dempsey wrote: »

Any stats though. :pac:

I'm thinking that Pirlo covered more ground than any England midfielder again.

i'm no stattso bud:pac: He probably did.

Dempsey

Lennonist wrote: »

I don't get why Brady appears to be anti Italian. He spent most of his career in Italy.

Dont think he's been anti Italian from what I heard tbh.

SeanJ09

Really think this World Cup is wide open. Italy have the quality to go all the way, they are an absolute joy to watch. Were comfortably the second best team at the last Euros. They should fear no-one.

DerekDGoldfish

Lennonist wrote: »

I don't get why Brady appears to be anti Italian. He spent most of his career in Italy.

He is still bitter at being shipped out of Juve to make room for some French waster.

Strongbow10

kryogen wrote: »

Really?

So unless a striker can play anywhere along the forward line, up top or support line, he is never going to reach a level deemed world class?

Drogba never got your memo. RVN either to name but two

When has Rooney been a world class centre forward first and foremost?

He is a creative forward and not a striker in the main. When United have been at their best he has played a supporting role to Ronaldo and also to Van Persie.

Why wasn't he played through the centre? Thats not going to answer Englands problems. He has had many opportunities at major tournaments to play as the central striker and made very little impact.

Even Raheem Sterling and Sturridge are capable of having an impact from wide areas.

The argument that Rooney is wasted on the wing is a red herring, formations are not set in stone nowadays, being named on the left wing doesn't mean you are stuck out there. Forward lines in the modern game are interchangable for sheer unpredictability alone, and if you cannot interchange then you are not a world class player.

Van Persie and Drogba performed their best in a role with help of supporting forwards of which Rooney is one himself.

the incredible pudding

kryogen wrote: »

Really?

So unless a striker can play anywhere along the forward line, up top or support line, he is never going to reach a level deemed world class?

Drogba never got your memo. RVN either to name but two

Rooney has the skillset but not the positional sense or discipline. Rooney is a supremely talented player but I'll always feel that he doesn't work hard enough at that side of his game and thus will never reach the status/level that he could have reached if he was more of a professional. Regardless, he's still an excellent player and the criticism of him for the campaign has been too extensive.

SeanJ09

Actually thought that was the best 90 mins from an English team in a major tournament since 02 probably.

kryogen

Strongbow10 wrote: »

When has Rooney been a world class centre forward first and foremost?

He is a creative forward and not a striker in the main. When United have been at their best he has played a supporting role to Ronaldo and also to Van Persie.

Why wasn't he played through the centre? Thats not going to answer Englands problems. He has had many opportunities at major tournaments to play as the central striker and made very little impact.

Even Raheem Sterling and Sturridge are capable of having an impact from wide areas.

The argument that Rooney is wasted on the wing is a red herring, formations are not set in stone nowadays, being named on the left wing doesn't mean you are stuck out there. Forward lines in the modern game are interchangable for sheer unpredictability alone, and if you cannot interchange then you are not a world class player.

Van Persie and Drogba performed their best in a role with help of supporting forwards of which Rooney is one himself.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Lennonist

Dempsey wrote: »

Dont think he's been anti Italian from what I heard tbh.

I got that impression from him from his comments there tonight tbh. I don't mean anti Italian, but a bit pro Engliand in this case.

Chucky the tree

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Really think this World Cup is wide open. Italy have the quality to go all the way, they are an absolute joy to watch. Were comfortably the second best team at the last Euros. They should fear no-one.

I thought Italy were nothing great. Sloppy defensively at times and didn't show much going forward. Can't see them winning it at all.

shamrock55

kryogen wrote: »

Check out italys formation for tonights game, he was playing in an attacking role

tupac_healy

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Really think this World Cup is wide open. Italy have the quality to go all the way, they are an absolute joy to watch. Were comfortably the second best team at the last Euros. They should fear no-one.

Add to that the depth they have on the bench and I'd expect them to do quite well at this WC...

The likes of Immoble and Insignie are always good for a goal should times get tough

kryogen

shamrock55 wrote: »

Check out italys formation for tonights game, he was playing in an attacking role

Check out the game itself, you know, with your eyes and stuff.

Dempsey

shamrock55 wrote: »

Check out italys formation for tonights game, he was playing in an attacking role

:pac:

kryogen

tupac_healy wrote: »

Add to that the depth they have on the bench and I'd expect them to do quite well at this WC...

The likes of Immoble and Insignie are always good for a goal should times get tough

Wouldn't fancy the keeper that much and the defence looked uncharacteristically shaky, the pacy teams are going to trouble them

Strongbow10

shamrock55 wrote: »

Check out italys formation for tonights game, he was playing in an attacking role

don't pay too much attention to the formations tv stations show before the game starts

watch the positional changes during the game. Pirlo tended to be wherever the ball was rather than playing as an attacking midfielder :P

tupac_healy

shamrock55 wrote: »

Check out italys formation for tonights game, he was playing in an attacking role

I was hoping you would come back on and say you were kidding....

Honestly, Pirlo is the very definition of what Gerrard should have been attempting to emulate tonight...

Playmaker personified

Skylinehead

shamrock55 wrote: »

Check out italys formation for tonights game, he was playing in an attacking role

Did you base that off the BBCs formation graphic or where he actually played the match?

tupac_healy

kryogen wrote: »

Wouldn't fancy the keeper that much and the defence looked uncharacteristically shaky, the pacy teams are going to trouble them

Fair point, Buffon will be a big loss if it is indeed end of tournament...

But Sirigu plays for an ambitious team and seems to be holding down his place despite the PSG riches.....

the incredible pudding

kryogen wrote: »

Check out the game itself, you know, with your eyes and stuff.

To be fair he played ahead of Veratti and De Rossi for most the game. He didn't just sit in front of the defenders, basically has a free role in midfield and wandered into pockets of space wherever they appear, he was everywhere and displayed a masterclass of a midfield performance.

That being said, arguing that he was supporting the forwards is ridiculous.

shamrock55

Skylinehead wrote: »

Did you base that off the BBCs formation graphic or where he actually played the match?

Yep