England v Italy 11 PM. (Mod warning linked in OP)

Dozen Wicked Words

rarnes1 wrote: »

Delighted England lost.

They have some super players but are managed by a complete joke of a manager.

I'm sure the media surge for a foreign manager will start soon.

Absolute jokers

Are you joking?

Liam O

NIMAN wrote: »

Rooney was often held up as somewhere in the Top 5 players in the world, behind the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, but he's not even close to the Top 50 players in the world.

Very over-rated player. Of course has produced moments of class, but a lot of top players do that.

What's more ridiculous than this post is that there's 4 people who took the time to thank it. You say he's not near the top 50 in the world but then say he produces moments of class that a lot of top players do, this calling him a top player in the same post as saying he's not a top player. Ridiculous the lengths some people are going to scapegoat him. Where's the scapegoating of Sturridge and Welbeck? They were both well below what they are capable of and Sturridge went back into the shell he normally descended into at Chelsea where he'd overplay it and then when he did pass lose possession a lot of the time.

Dozen Wicked Words

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

Are you joking?

No

Timmyctc

I'm delighted England lost because Pirlo

gustafo

rarnes1 wrote: »

Delighted England lost.

They have some super players but are managed by a complete joke of a manager.

I'm sure the media surge for a foreign manager will start soon.

Absolute jokers

How do you make that out?

I think he is a down to earth manager, he doesn't talk dribble like most international managers,

At the end of the day he has played many of the younger players who deserve there chance and they were unlucky tonight not to get a draw,

I like hodgson, he has been to world cups before and done alright, the problem now id it's England so he will be scrutinised at what ever he does.

NIMAN

Liam O wrote: »

What's more ridiculous than this post is that there's 4 people who took the time to thank it. You say he's not near the top 50 in the world but then say he produces moments of class that a lot of top players do, this calling him a top player in the same post as saying he's not a top player. Ridiculous the lengths some people are going to scapegoat him. Where's the scapegoating of Sturridge and Welbeck? They were both well below what they are capable of and Sturridge went back into the shell he normally descended into at Chelsea where he'd overplay it and then when he did pass lose possession a lot of the time.

Those 2 have never been spoke about in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo, thats the difference.

I remember listening to many media outlets say Rooney was No3 in the world behind Ronaldo and Messi only a few years back. He never was.

On the current form of Rooney over recent years, I still maintain there are plenty of players out there in the game I'd rather have in my team before him. Ok so maybe I was exaggerating at 50, but I'd say he isn't in the Top 20 players in the world currently.

2013 list: he's 28th in this
http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2013/dec/100-greatest-footballers-2013

The previous year, 2012, he was 31st
http://www.theguardian.com/football/datablog/2012/dec/24/world-best-footballers-top-100-list

And for 2014 I'd say he didn't do anything to raise himself in those lists.

Neeson

gustafo wrote: »

How do you make that out?

I think he is a down to earth manager, he doesn't talk dribble like most international managers.

He doesn't. Giles said his post match comments were typical nonsense.

Liam O

NIMAN wrote: »

Those 2 have never been spoke about in the same breath as Messi and Ronaldo, thats the difference.

I remember listening to many media outlets say Rooney was No3 in the world behind Ronaldo and Messi only a few years back. He never was.

On the current form of Rooney over recent years, I still maintain there are plenty of players out there in the game I'd rather have in my team before him. Ok so maybe I was exaggerating at 50, but I'd say he isn't in the Top 20 players in the world currently.

2013 list: he's 28th in this
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/dec/24/world-best-footballers-top-100-list-2013-lionel-messi

Was that the year when he fired United to the PL and the CL final? Yeah he must have been average that year.

Also ribery and Bale both moved up 20-30 places in one year on that list. Really accurate stuff...

gustafo

gustafo wrote: »

How do you make that out?

I think he is a down to earth manager, he doesn't talk dribble like most international managers,

At the end of the day he has played many of the younger players who deserve there chance and they were unlucky tonight not to get a draw,

I like hodgson, he has been to world cups before and done alright, the problem now id it's England so he will be scrutinised at what ever he does.

He's achieved little of importance and tactically not up to scratch. I'm still wondering how he fell into that job. Right place right time, ie not a foreigner after the the capello regime.

Down to earth he may be but what good is that?

Long may he stay in the job but unfortunately he'll be sacked soon

On Rooney.

He's one of the biggest paid footballers on the planet but tbh there's serious arguments for him to be dropped from the national team and he could do well to fit into van Gaals team

NIMAN

Liam O wrote: »

Was that the year when he fired United to the PL and the CL final? Yeah he must have been average that year.

Also ribery and Bale both moved up 20-30 places in one year on that list. Really accurate stuff...

Hey, I don't make the lists!

All I'm saying, if I was a manager and given the pick of players around the world, then I would easily find 20 or 30 that I would have in my team ahead of Rooney.

For a start, there are most of the starters from Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern, Man City, then a lot of individuals you could handpick out of PSG, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Dortmund, Juventus, Atletico.

Liam O

NIMAN wrote: »

Hey, I don't make the lists!

You just use them in arguments

Scholes could have a very valid point saying Rooney has already peaked. The guy has obvious class but it's on the wane.

Timmyctc

rarnes1 wrote: »

On Rooney.

He's one of the biggest paid footballers on the planet but tbh there's serious arguments for him to be dropped from the national team and he could do well to fit into van Gaals team

In fariness. In being dropped at United is likely to be due to a manager preference. He was one of about three players last year who could honestly say they achieved even a semblance of form last season.

For England, even played out of position he is dangerous. His assist tonight lends itself to that arguement imo. He had a few shots that went very near and if one of them had of gone the right side of the post we'd be discussing a very dfferent story tonight.

PS SO DRUNK

PPS. I don't think he has peaked. But as with many players. His obvious versatility has potentially been his downfall. If he could only play one position he would only be utilised there and he would be up top scoring goals. When he is solely played there he does damage a la 2011 season and 2009 season. Scoring 30+ goals both times.

Lightbulb Sun

rarnes1 wrote: »

Scholes could have a very valid point saying Rooney has already peaked. The guy has obvious class but it's on the wayne.

FYP

amkin25

No confidence no belief and no possession is the main reasons england lose and will continue to lose.

Timmyctc

amkin25 wrote: »

No confidence no belief and no possession is the main reasons england lose and will continue to lose.

No talent #Controversy

NIMAN

I worry for Sterling, he is going to be the great new hope for England, and will end up with a lot of pressure on him to perform.

Lets hope he doesn't go the way of Walcott in that regard.

FatherTed

Sterling was good for England, Rooney had a nice pass for Sturidge's goal but nothing else. In fact most of Italy's attacks came down England's left side because Rooney gave Baines zero protection.

Timmyctc

FatherTed wrote: »

Sterling was good for England, Rooney had a nice pass for Sturidge's goal but nothing else. In fact most of Italy's attacks came down England's left side because Rooney gave Baines zero protection.

Odd that because Rooney and Welbeck swapped wings not long after the goal

Liam O

Timmyctc wrote: »

Odd that because Rooney and Welbeck swapped wings not long after the goal

I didn't realise wing forwards were supposed to protect full backs too.

NIMAN wrote: »

I worry for Sterling, he is going to be the great new hope for England, and will end up with a lot of pressure on him to perform.

Lets hope he doesn't go the way of Walcott in that regard.

Walcott's a great player.

Timmyctc

Liam O wrote: »

I didn't realise wing forwards were supposed to protect full backs too.

Only when your name begins with a 'Wayne Roo' and ends with a 'ney'.
xx

But then if you did that you'd get slated for being out of position

COYVB

kryogen wrote: »

Adaptability, the ability to influence a game even when played out of position, to produce even when playing poorly or not involved?

His flexibility and natural will to fight for the team go against him a little in that regard I suppose

None of that makes him a better option than a guy who naturally plays in the positions he finds himself being picked in surely? That's what I was getting at. If you're going to play an attack minded attacker on the flank then why pick a versatile centre forward?

You're not getting the best of the player or the position

.jacksparrow.

Sky news going with Qatar corruption, deflection doesn't even come close:)

blueser

Disappointing result last night, but there you go. Italy, while not brilliant themselves, were better than us and deserved the win. Defensively we were shaky, particularly down our left flank where Baines seemed to struggle with the threat of Candreva. He was, along with Darmian, the best player(s) on the pitch last night. England had a fair amount of possession in that second half, but never really threatened. And the crossing was poor. Ah well; onto Uruguay next thursday.

inforfun

What did you expect? A while ago i read somewhere that basicaly, Hodgson has 66 players to choose from.

rwg

Dempsey wrote: »

Name 50 better than him

easy 10 off the top of the head to start with

Ronaldo
Messi
Fabregas
Neymar
Xavi
Iniesta
Pirlo
Suarez
YaYa Toure
Silva

blueser

Timmyctc wrote: »

No talent #Controversy

Wouldn't go as far as to say ''no'' talent. Sterling, Barkley, Lallana, Shaw are all talented players. But certainly nowhere near enough talent to make the major sides quake in their boots. It's a tournament too far for Rooney and Gerrard. We'll do very well to scrape out of the group. And most of the people in England (even including the pundits) realise this. Very little (in comparison) of the ridiculous hype that accompanied previous England teams going to tournaments, thank God.

rwg

Another easy 10

Ibra
Ozil
Lewandowski
Sweinsteiger
Oscar
Hazard
Robben
VP
Ribery
Nasri

Optimalprimerib

So when is the game (manchester utd vs liverpool) vs uruguay on? This thread was fantastic. Rooney is ****e. Gerreard is ****er. No rooney is ****er. No gerr... etc etc etc

Dozen Wicked Words

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

So when is the game (manchester utd vs liverpool) vs uruguay on? This thread was fantastic. Rooney is ****e. Gerreard is ****er. No rooney is ****er. No gerr... etc etc etc

In the spirit of fairness I'd say neither was very good.

Lord TSC

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

In the spirit of fairness I'd say neither was very good.

Yeah, strikes me plenty of people are slagging both off..

rwg

bit unfair on Sterling and Henderson, Gerrard wasnt at the races, Johnston at least looked like a slight threat going forward - Sturridge never finishes games well but looked a threat

Rooney, bar the pass for the goal did nothing - Wellbeck looked lost

Wasnt even close - Pool won

namloc1980

Henderson and Gerrard were just simply awful. They contributed nothing all night. Gerrard was absolutely knackered with half an hour to go. The four up front did well enough in the first half but totally ran out of steam in the second half. The lack of quality midfield play was glaringly obvious again in an England team. What is it about the English game/grassroots that they simply can't develop top class play making midfielders.

mav79

Henderson and Gerrard vs Pirlo, De Rossi, Verratti and Marchisio.
Rooney out wide.
Wilshire for Henderson.
Sturridge replaced by Lallana when needing a goal.
Shunting Sterling out wide after being a threat in the middle.

People are missing the main problem with England yesterday.
Roy Hodgson.

fryup

namloc1980 wrote: »

Gerrard was absolutely knackered with half an hour to go.

nevermind half an hour to go, he looked knackered after half an hour

wonder will hodgson have the balls to drop him

Tigerandahalf

namloc1980 wrote: »

Henderson and Gerrard were just simply awful. They contributed nothing all. What is it about the English game/grassroots that they simply can't develop top class play making midfielders.

I cannot remember a ball playing midfielder that England have had over the last 20 or so years. But the English game is overly concerned with bringing through young players with pace. Very few technically talented players are nurtured through.
England look good upfront. I thought Sterling did very well in that hole role. He showed a great ability to pick a pass but also had the feet and balance to hold onto the ball. Rooney will not get back into that position. He has to either adapt to his new roles or he will be left out. I wonder if Rooney could be put into the centre of midfield. He is the one English player who is capable of receiving the ball with his back to goal and lay off a pass. I haven't seen Luke Shaw play but would he be an option on the left or even left back. Thought Baines was very poor last night. He looked vulnerable when ran at. In fairness he didnt get a lot of protection.
Johnson played well enough but he is poor at reading where the ball is going to go. I hope England get out of the group as their front players look very exciting.

theoneeyedman

The worry from an england POV is that it looks like woy is bowing to the papers with his selections. He had to play all of sterling Barkley lalana Rooney Gerard etc regardless of how the game was going. Sturridge took a knock and he brought on lalana? Wtf they were a goal down. Also I'd you needed a midfielder yo protect a full back or put a foot in then where was milner?

Will I Amnt

Nasri is better than Rooney? I'm loving this World Cup but I'll be happy when it's over and this forum gets back to some semblance of normality.

mike65

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Sky news going with Qatar corruption, deflection doesn't even come close:)

They don't have the World Cup rights, so it doesn't really exist.

chopperbyrne

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I cannot remember a ball playing midfielder that England have had over the last 20 or so years.

They had Paul Scholes.

They played him wide left.

Tigerandahalf

chopperbyrne wrote: »

They had Paul Scholes.

They played him wide left.

Scholes never demanded the ball. Ive never been a huge fan of his. I always felt he had to be carried in midfield. Had some great aspects to his game but I dont think he was ever regarded as a playmaker.

chopperbyrne

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Scholes never demanded the ball. Ive never been a huge fan of his. I always felt he had to be carried in midfield. Had some great aspects to his game but I dont think he was ever regarded as a playmaker.

So you know precisely nothing about football.

Boskowski

I thought England played pretty well last night. Quite refreshing actually and their young guys delivered for them. Only for them being England and their opponents being Italy - who I have a soft spot for - I could have found myself almost rooting for them. :eek:

Obviously two different tactical approaches and the England one was physically more demanding so no surprise the legs went a bit towards the end. Italy was the better side but if England had gotten something out of this you couldn't say it was undeserved. They didn't and there is no shame in that. Better teams than England get pipped by Italy like that, its what they do.

England should look forward from this and go even younger v Uruguay. No harm leaving Rooney on the bench, he was poor but for his assist which was class admittedly. It probably won't happen but you don't know with Hodgson, he's already been more courageous than I expected him to be.

Start Lallana ahead of him and let Rooney play from the bench. Don't let Wilshere near the starting 11, he needs to work on his character to be a contributor. I was not surprised he was non-existent when he came on.

I almost want England to advance now cos in fairness the young guys deserve a little something and their style is bringing something to this WC.

Come on England (Did I just say that? )

Tigerandahalf

chopperbyrne wrote: »

So you know precisely nothing about football.

Attack the post chap not the poster. I said he wasnt a playmaker.

Timmyctc

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Scholes never demanded the ball. Ive never been a huge fan of his. I always felt he had to be carried in midfield. Had some great aspects to his game but I dont think he was ever regarded as a playmaker.

I'm too hungover to find a funny gif to reply with but just so you'r made aware your post is 100% factually incorrect.

Ulysses Gaze

rwg wrote: »

Another easy 10

Ibra
Ozil
Lewandowski
Sweinsteiger
Oscar
Hazard
Robben
VP
Ribery
Nasri

Nasri? Really? Looks good because he is in a fantastic squad.

If you'd said Bale fair enough as he is a glaring omission from your lists

Nib

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Scholes never demanded the ball. Ive never been a huge fan of his. I always felt he had to be carried in midfield. Had some great aspects to his game but I dont think he was ever regarded as a playmaker.

The_Kew_Tour

Timmyctc wrote: »

I'm too hungover to find a funny gif to reply with but just so you'r made aware your post is 100% factually incorrect.

As least players like Xavi, Inesta, Zidane, Pirlo and Henry, along with Lippi and Pep appreciated his greatness.

I will take those comments more serious

Timmyctc

Sports Witness on twitter doing a round up of all major sport papers across the continent's player ratings from last night. Rooney not getting anywhere near as much a hammering off them as he does off English media. Him Sterling and Sturridge the top Gerrard and Baines the two consistenly poorest I think.