Argentina vs Bosnia - 11PM (BBC1/RTE1)

Maximus Alexander

pickarooney wrote: »

That's a bit of a weird way to put it. There's only been one World Cup since so he failed to score in 5 matches. Hardly the end of the world given the way he was deployed in that tournament.

Agreed, phrasing it like that makes it sound like there's been a World Cup every year since 2006 and he hasn't scored in any of them.

OdgeXD

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Am I the only one not creaming myself over Messi's goal? It was all right like. Obviously he's a great player so people expect great things, but it's not like we've never seen a goal like it before. The bombast would drive you mad sometimes.

That's something I don't get, why is every single goal he scores special? It's stupid, he was completely anonymous last night and scores an ok goal and people suddenly overlook his **** performance. Had to turn off RTÉ becuase the commentary was ****ing cringeworthy.

Can't wait to see them criticise Ronaldo tonight if he doesn't score a goal or do something incredible.

Too Tough To Die

OdgeXD wrote: »

That's something I don't get, why is every single goal he scores special? It's stupid, he was completely anonymous last night and scores an ok goal and people suddenly overlook his **** performance. Had to turn off RTÉ becuase the commentary was ****ing cringeworthy.

Can't wait to see them criticise Ronaldo tonight if he doesn't score a goal or do something incredible.

An okay goal? He picked the ball up near the centre circle, no sign of danger and within seconds it's in the back of the net. It's a world class goal that pretty much only he can score with any sort of regularity.

I'm sure there will be better goals, but let's not down play it in trying not to overplay it.

Maximus Alexander

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

It's a world class goal that pretty much only he can score with any sort of regularity.

I'm sure there will be better goals, but let's not down play it in trying not to overplay it.

Ah come on, let's not overplay it in trying not to downplay it. It wasn't even the best goal so far in the tournament.

Too Tough To Die

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Ah come on, let's not overplay it in trying not to downplay it. It wasn't even the best goal so far in the tournament.

How do you know?

Maximus Alexander

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

How do you know?

What do you mean? Because I've watched every match so far and seen better goals?

Too Tough To Die

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

What do you mean? Because I've watched every match so far and seen better goals?

Oh, you mean in your opinion.

It's the best i've seen so far, but not the most spectacular. Would be the most spectacular if we hadn't seen him do it a million times already.

Maximus Alexander

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Oh, you mean in your opinion.

Oh we're doing that thing are we? The rest of the soccer forum is full of empirical fact, I suppose? We don't normally preface every sentence with the words "in my opinion", because that would be both cumbersome and redundant, but it's usually how discussions work.

Anyway if you want to get excited about a goal this would be far more worth your time. In my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awQcH_0hkIw

Adamocovic

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Maradona was their system and apart from Maradona himself, there was nothing special about their 1986 team. The magic and wizardry of Maradona singlehandedly led his team to WC victory. And I doubt if I'll ever see his like again on the world's biggest stage.

Not taking anything away from Maradona, but that Argentina team had won the world cup the tournament before Maradona made his world cup debut so it's not like he was joining a poor team. This Argentina team on the other had haven't even made the semis since 1990. Messi has another two world cups in him I just hope Argentina go on and win one of them. And Messi goalscorer at the WC hasn't been that good but lets not forget 5 of Maradonas 8 goals came in the 1986 campaign and he went to 4 world cups.
I just think Messi takes a lot of the blame for Argentina not doing well and is always compared to Maradona and how Maradona won the world cup, never how the whole team won it. That Argentina team had loads of talent and loads of scorers.

Too Tough To Die

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Oh we're doing that thing are we? The rest of the soccer forum is full of empirical fact, I suppose? We don't normally preface every sentence with the words "in my opinion", because that would be both cumbersome and redundant, but it's usually how discussions work.

Anyway if you want to get excited about a goal this would be far more worth your time. In my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awQcH_0hkIw

Serious? If he scored it without having to turn back around and go run about in the box before finding an opportunity to finish. It was great play and an excellent goal but all looked a bit ungainly by the end.

Cienciano

I'm with Maximus on this one. If Messi played like Robben the other night then everyone would be creaming themselves, and rightly so. But he was terrible, the goal was ok, not amazing. It it makes it into the top 10 goals of the tournament by the end, it'll be a poor standard of goals.

Maximus Alexander

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Serious? If he scored it without having to turn back around and go run about in the box before finding an opportunity to finish. It was great play and an excellent goal but all looked a bit ungainly by the end.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. :P

The turn at the end is what makes it for me. He knows the defenders have run too far and the keeper is committed. He keeps a cool head and he knows he can get around him, and goes for it. If he'd just taken the shot instead, in all likelihood it's not a goal.

Not to mention dat sprint!

brevity

The idea that Maradonna was the only one performing the year Argentina won The World Cup doesn't really sit well with me. Even Ossie Ardiles said that there were a number of other really good players on the side.

No doubt Maradonna was the difference but to say the rest of the squad was a bunch of scrubs seems a bit unfair.

Too Tough To Die

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. :P

The turn at the end is what makes it for me. He knows the defenders have run too far and the keeper is committed. He keeps a cool head and he knows he can get around him, and goes for it. If he'd just taken the shot instead, in all likelihood it's not a goal.

Not to mention dat sprint!

No, it's a great goal for sure. Just lost a lot of it's aesthetic appeal for me at the end.

Too Tough To Die

brevity wrote: »

The idea that Maradonna was the only one performing the year Argentina won The World Cup doesn't really sit well with me. Even Ossie Ardiles said that there were a number of other really good players on the side.

No doubt Maradonna was the difference but to say the rest of the squad was a bunch of scrubs seems a bit unfair.

Yeah, John Barnes was saying the same last night and he should know.

Cienciano

brevity wrote: »

The idea that Maradonna was the only one performing the year Argentina won The World Cup doesn't really sit well with me. Even Ossie Ardiles said that there were a number of other really good players on the side.

No doubt Maradonna was the difference but to say the rest of the squad was a bunch of scrubs seems a bit unfair.

I think Argentina will always have good players. The 86 team was good, but comparing it to the Argentina team of the late 70's it was poor. I don't think any player can drag a team of donkeys to win a world cup, no team has ever won a major international tournament without their defence playing well, and there's nothing Maradona can do to influence that

OdgeXD

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

An okay goal? He picked the ball up near the centre circle, no sign of danger and within seconds it's in the back of the net. It's a world class goal that pretty much only he can score with any sort of regularity.

I'm sure there will be better goals, but let's not down play it in trying not to overplay it.

A world class goal that only he could score?

Are you delusional?

Skylinehead

OdgeXD wrote: »

A world class goal that only he could score?

Are you delusional?

Why don't you read the rest of the sentence?

OdgeXD

Skylinehead wrote: »

Why don't you read the rest of the sentence?

I did, that's the gist of it.

Skylinehead

OdgeXD wrote: »

I did, that's the gist of it.

No, you missed a very important bit that you decided to leave out. The regularity?

SantryRed

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. :P

The turn at the end is what makes it for me. He knows the defenders have run too far and the keeper is committed. He keeps a cool head and he knows he can get around him, and goes for it. If he'd just taken the shot instead, in all likelihood it's not a goal.

Not to mention dat sprint!

It's a great goal. But the reason Robben does the massive turn is because he has absolutely no right foot at all :pac:

ANyways, RVP's header was better than that

Maximus Alexander

SantryRed wrote: »

It's a great goal. But the reason Robben does the massive turn is because he has absolutely no right foot at all :pac:

ANyways, RVP's header was better than that

I loved RVP's header, among the best I've seen. But there's only one element to it, which was... heading the ball perfectly. So while aesthetically it was excellent and you won't see many like it, there were a lot more elements to both Messi and Robben's goals.

Ulysses Gaze

brevity wrote: »

The idea that Maradonna was the only one performing the year Argentina won The World Cup doesn't really sit well with me. Even Ossie Ardiles said that there were a number of other really good players on the side.

No doubt Maradonna was the difference but to say the rest of the squad was a bunch of scrubs seems a bit unfair.

The Argentina side Messi is playing in now has a better attack than the 1986 team and possibly a better midfield.

I think the 1986 team would have had a better defence and certainly a better goalie.

Son Of A Vidic

pickarooney wrote: »

That's a bit of a weird way to put it. There's only been one World Cup since so he failed to score in 5 matches. Hardly the end of the world given the way he was deployed in that tournament.

Weird way to put what, that he didn't deliver at the last world cup? This is his third World Cup so if he doesn't light it up this time he possibly mightn't ever. Messi for Barcelona and Messi for Argentina is not and possible might never be the same player. And I think we all know the reasons for that. He probably still has two World Cups left in him, so he still has time to elevate his play on the world stage. But he has some work to do to equal his great predecessor imo. I think he just needs to relax, because at times he just looks weighted down by expectation. Hopefully last nights goal will settle him and we'll see some football that fulfills the hype.

Ulysses Gaze

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Weird way to put what, that he didn't deliver at the last world cup? This is his third World Cup so if he doesn't light it up this time he possibly mightn't ever. Messi for Barcelona and Messi for Argentina is not and possible might never be the same player. And I think we all know the reasons for that. He probably still has two World Cups left in him, so he still has time to elevate his play on the world stage. But he has some work to do to equal his great predecessor imo. I think he just needs to relax, because at times he just looks weighted down by expectation. Hopefully last nights goal will settle him and we'll see some football that fulfills the hype.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here and it is one of the key differences between Maradona and Messi.

Maradona thrived on the pressure and expectation for Argentina. Messi seems overburdened by it because he's not really performed for the Argentine Senior Squad at the same level as for Barcelona.

I also think Messi is not a natural leader the way Maradona was and lacks his force of personality.

rseager

Begovic sounds american/irish loads of other guesses because he's canadian

Ardillaun

Ah, Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia and the rest, do you ever think of the soccer team you might have had if you'd stayed together?

Hulk Hands

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I loved RVP's header, among the best I've seen. But there's only one element to it, which was... heading the ball perfectly. So while aesthetically it was excellent and you won't see many like it, there were a lot more elements to both Messi and Robben's goals.

The pass though makes RVP's goal also. Kind of like how the passes made RVP'S two Volleys in the prem or Suarez's against Newcastle so much better. It'll take a fair one to beat it for goal of the tournament