GoT Illiterate Season 4 finale *HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS*

golfball37

Pugsly wrote: »

Problem is all the wildling clans are most likely just unified to fight a war against the "southerners". Remember what Ygritte was talking about, "They came up here, put up a big wall and said it was theirs". I doubt Mance could have unified all the clans with "Its not safe here, we need to get to the other side of the wall".

He told Jon Snow when they first met the thing that united them was -he told them if they didn't go south they'd all be dead.

Awkward Badger

golfball37 wrote: »

He told Jon Snow when they first met the thing that united them was -he told them if they didn't go south they'd all be dead.

That does ring a bell now that you mention it. But it still means they united to fight the nights watch as the tunnel through the wall was the only way to get there. They were united against a common enemy with a common purpose.

Once south of the wall though all that changes. I suppose some of the clans might decide to fight for Stannis as mercenaries, like the clans that fought for Tywin against Rob Stark. But I'm not sure how Mance remains their "king" or controls an army or keeps them unified when the only thing that unified them was fighting the nights watch to get south of the wall before winter.

They wouldn't be "free folk" no more if they bend the knee literally or figuratively to Stannis the king of the seven kingdoms. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

bluesfan

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

The doctor guy said that if he manages to save the Mountain, he'll still have his strength but he'll be changed in some way. I think it's a possibility that he my be a bit mindless, but if he still has his strength he could be used as just a mindless killing machine that she can just use at her behest.

If he turns out to be a mindless killing machine that she can just use at her behest isn't that leaving him completely unchanged?

RichardoKhan

Can anyone tell me without any spoilers or hints of a spoiler. Where the heck are the White Walkers gone to? We see them advancing at the end of Season 2. We see them taking babies from the nutjob with his harem.
Now we are at the end of Season 4 & a army of 100K plus camp followers report no interaction with them except they are coming IE Winters coming!

I know that horse was dead that the leader of the white walkers was on but still!!

Where are they?

PS how the hell did Bran & co get around the Wall? We never saw them going through it, around it or over it.

Awkward Badger

bluesfan wrote: »

If he turns out to be a mindless killing machine that she can just use at her behest isn't that leaving him completely unchanged?

Yeah he's a mindless killing machine as it is. The only thing I can think of in the way of a change is he'll suffer some brain damage and end up a bit simple. Cersei might then think him useless and send him off. Where he meets his match his new best friend. "Hodor ?" - "Gregor ?" - "Hodor !" - "Gregor !".

Awkward Badger

RichardoKhan wrote: »

Can anyone tell me without any spoilers or hints of a spoiler. Where the heck are the White Walkers gone to? We see them advancing at the end of Season 2. We see them taking babies from the nutjob with his harem.
Now we are at the end of Season 4 & a army of 100K plus camp followers report no interaction with them except they are coming IE Winters coming!

I know that horse was dead that the leader of the white walkers was on but still!!

Where are they?

They are north of the wall somewhere. I'd assume they are waiting for winter to go about whatever it is they plan on doing. Their doings were noticed by the wildlings when Jon Snow was with them iirc. Bodies or the group of nights watchmen he was with and horses missing before Jon climbed the wall.

PS how the hell did Bran & co get around the Wall? We never saw them going through it, around it or over it

Sam showed them an old secret unused tunnel through the wall I think.

RichardoKhan

Pugsly wrote: »

They are north of the wall somewhere. I'd assume they are waiting for winter to go about whatever it is they plan on doing.

Maybe their horses eat snow ;-)

Seriously it does seem to be a overstretched story arc.

NyOmnishambles

RichardoKhan wrote: »

Can anyone tell me without any spoilers or hints of a spoiler. Where the heck are the White Walkers gone to? We see them advancing at the end of Season 2. We see them taking babies from the nutjob with his harem.
Now we are at the end of Season 4 & a army of 100K plus camp followers report no interaction with them except they are coming IE Winters coming!

I know that horse was dead that the leader of the white walkers was on but still!!

Where are they?

I have been wondering that myself

PS how the hell did Bran & co get around the Wall? We never saw them going through it, around it or over it.

We did see that, they were holed up in another castle further up the wall from Castle Black when Sam and Gilly turned up having gotten under the wall there when escaping the Walkers using Sam's unique ability to use information contained in books

He gave them some of the Whitewalker killing shards he found from the first men

NomadicGray

bluesfan wrote: »

If he turns out to be a mindless killing machine that she can just use at her behest isn't that leaving him completely unchanged?

That's what I thought, he seemed pretty well under lanister control so far. I expect he won't be after his recovery

Taylor365

Pugsly wrote: »

Yeah he's a mindless killing machine as it is. The only thing I can think of in the way of a change is he'll suffer some brain damage and end up a bit simple. Cersei might then think him useless and send him off. Where he meets his match his new best friend. "Hodor ?" - "Gregor ?" - "Hodor !" - "Gregor !".

Maybe we'll see the 'Undead Mountain'.

''He cannot be killed.....again!''

Da Shins Kelly

bluesfan wrote: »

If he turns out to be a mindless killing machine that she can just use at her behest isn't that leaving him completely unchanged?

Well, no, becuase as it stands he can still speak properly and think for himself. He works for the Lannisters, but he's still a thinking human being. Presumably if he is going to be changed from the operation but still retain his strength, it's something with his mind that is going to go awry.

gazzamc

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Well, no, becuase as it stands he can still speak properly and think for himself. He works for the Lannisters, but he's still a thinking human being. Presumably if he is going to be changed from the operation but still retain his strength, it's something with his mind that is going to go awry.

If that the case they should be a little worried.. If he turns out to be a loose cannon (who may not follow orders) then that would be bad... Not that I care though as I hate Cersei (wish Tyrian took her out too)

iamanengine

My thoughts on the Walkers is that maybe they are not at full power until Winter is in full swing? If they went South when it was still Autumn they'd probably decompose or something haha

Mr. CooL ICE

Pugsly wrote: »

Yeah he's a mindless killing machine as it is. The only thing I can think of in the way of a change is he'll suffer some brain damage and end up a bit simple. Cersei might then think him useless and send him off. Where he meets his match his new best friend. "Hodor ?" - "Gregor ?" - "Hodor !" - "Gregor !".

Ooh, maybe Bran could control the mountain then. Not as cool as controlling a dragon, but still

Adamocovic

Ye like many other really curious to what will happen to the Mountain. If he survives (which you would think he'd have to otherwise why bother with that scene) what abomination will he be? And isn't the lad who is helping him the same guy that tended to Jaime Lanister's hand who said he used to be Maester but was thrown out for doing bold and dangerous experiments. Can't wait to see what will happen to the Mountain.

Degag

Taylor365 wrote: »

Can't wait to see what will happen to the Mountain.

Still holding out hopes for The Hound vs. The Mountain, Brother vs Brother.

Sounds like a WWE promo!

Da Shins Kelly

Adamocovic wrote: »

Ye like many other really curious to what will happen to the Mountain. If he survives (which you would think he'd have to otherwise why bother with that scene) what abomination will he be? And isn't the lad who is helping him the same guy that tended to Jaime Lanister's hand who said he used to be Maester but was thrown out for doing bold and dangerous experiments. Can't wait to see what will happen to the Mountain.

Yeah, I think the Maester is a bit of a Frankenstein character, so I imagine something very odd indeed is going to happen with the Mountain. His mind is going to be tampered with in some way.

Mickeroo

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Yeah, I think the Maester is a bit of a Frankenstein character, so I imagine something very odd indeed is going to happen with the Mountain. His mind is going to be tampered with in some way.

Maybe he'll just be a really nice guy :P

tok9

I feel like he's going to go on a rampage.

calex71

Degag wrote: »

Still holding out hopes for The Hound vs. The Mountain, Brother vs Brother.

Sounds like a WWE promo!

That scene was shot years and years ago in preparation for the show you can see the full scene that didn't make it into the show here, which finally lays to rest any and all Mountain vs Hound debate

/I'll ban myself now :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o9-CqovKM

ShetlandViking

As Mance Rayder would say (about Shae): "She was our enemy, and I'm glad she's dead."

Degag

calex71 wrote: »

That scene was shot years and years ago in preparation for the show you can see the full scene that didn't make it into the show here, which finally lays to rest any and all Mountain vs Hound debate

/I'll ban myself now :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-o9-CqovKM

Thought at the very least you'd put a Undertaker and Kane video up!

Lucas Hood

Just finished the last 2 eps last night. Kit Harrington was unreal in them.

Without doubt the best TV show I've ever watched.

RichFTW

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Just finished the last 2 eps last night. Kit Harrington was unreal in them.

Without doubt the best TV show I've ever watched.

Same here. No other show has made my heart race with fear & excitement like GOT.

I've decided I can't wait a year for the next season though so I bought the first two books and I'm about 230 pages through the first one. Well worth doing I'd say even at the early stage I'm at.

Mickeroo

RichFTW wrote: »

Same here. No other show has made my heart race with fear & excitement like GOT.

I've decided I can't wait a year for the next season though so I bought the first two books and I'm about 230 pages through the first one. Well worth doing I'd say even at the early stage I'm at.

I was in a similar situation after season 2, my plan was to read only the first two so I wouldn't ruin season 3 on my self.Was At some point during book 2 I got addicted and went on to read all of them within a couple of months

Enjoy, would love to be starting them for the first time again.

Anachrony

RichFTW wrote: »

I've decided I can't wait a year for the next season though so I bought the first two books and I'm about 230 pages through the first one.

Heretic. The thread title clearly says it's for people who HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS. What could a book reader like you possibly have to gain from posting in a thread that is so clearly not for you?

RichFTW

Anachrony wrote: »

Heretic. The thread title clearly says it's for people who HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS. What could a book reader like you possibly have to gain from posting in a thread that is so clearly not for you?

Ha ha. The books add a bit of character background and additional story lines not in the show though so are worth reading.

Like finding out Winterfell was actually a giant spaceship really caught me off guard. And who would have seen Cersei turning into a dragon coming. Highly interesting 230 pages so far!

Timmyctc

RichFTW wrote: »

Ha ha. The books add a bit of character background and additional story lines not in the show though so are worth reading.

Like finding out Winterfell was actually a giant spaceship really caught me off guard. And who would have seen Cersei turning into a dragon coming. Highly interesting 230 pages so far!

Have you gotten to the part where the whole main cast die off and are replaced with steampunk themed robots?

podgemonster

Timmyctc wrote: »

Have you gotten to the part where the whole main cast die off and are replaced with steampunk themed robots?

Reported! :-P

twinex

Can anyone tell me (more specific than Easteros) where Varys and Tyrion are going?, that is if it was mentioned of course.

Awkward Badger

twinex wrote: »

Can anyone tell me (more specific than Easteros) where Varys and Tyrion are going?, that is if it was mentioned of course.

There wasn't anything more specific said I don't think. Just Jamie saying Varys had secured passage to Essos.

Adamocovic

Pugsly wrote: »

There wasn't anything more specific said I don't think. Just Jamie saying Varys had secured passage to Essos.

Nice new locations for next year, also wonder what will happen with Stannis now, will he ride to the north to take Winterfell off the Boltons or will he help fight the walkers?

bren2001

Adamocovic wrote: »

Nice new locations for next year, also wonder what will happen with Stannis now, will he ride to the north to take Winterfell off the Boltons or will he help fight the walkers?

I presumed they were heading to Bravos, although it is not mentioned at all.

The Stannis arc is interesting. He owes the Iron Bank a lot of money which means he cant stay and fight the Walkers. I imagine he plans on riding south and getting the North to rally around him. He needs to take KL to start financing his debt.

SamAK

MagicMarker wrote: »

Can someone confirm for me if John Snow knows about his brother and stepmother?

twinex

Pugsly wrote: »

There wasn't anything more specific said I don't think. Just Jamie saying Varys had secured passage to Essos.

Essos of course. (Easteros!?, jesus)

Timmyctc

twinex wrote: »

Essos of course. (Easteros!?, jesus)

I quite like easteros :pac:

challengemaster

twinex wrote: »

Can anyone tell me (more specific than Easteros) where Varys and Tyrion are going?, that is if it was mentioned of course.

Essos is the entire continent, it was mentioned that the ship is heading to the Free Cities.

That means its one of the following

Braavos · Lorath · Norvos · Qohor · Pentos · Tyrosh · Myr · Lys · Volantis

DL Saint

So wait.....is Stannis a "Good Guy" now? Has he always been? Could it be possible that he recruits a strong wildling force and then rally up the remaining Northerners and maybe even the army of the Vale? Then you would have Stannis' Army, The Red Woman, The Golden Company, Wildling Force, Armies Loyal to the Starks, Army of the Vale (and maybe even the Tyrells) , Brotherhood without Banners Vs. Boltons and a diminishing Lannister Force...If that were the case I'd say Go team Stannis. But this is GOT so Stannis will probabaly be killed by Hodor next series or something :P

J. Marston

Ser Davos for the Iron Throne.

mikemac1

Tywin threatens to hang any whore he catches with Tyrion

And then he bangs Shea himself

Not something I was expecting

quad_red

DL Saint wrote: »

So wait.....is Stannis a "Good Guy" now? Has he always been? Could it be possible that he recruits a strong wildling force and then rally up the remaining Northerners and maybe even the army of the Vale? Then you would have Stannis' Army, The Red Woman, The Golden Company, Wildling Force, Armies Loyal to the Starks, Army of the Vale (and maybe even the Tyrells) , Brotherhood without Banners Vs. Boltons and a diminishing Lannister Force...If that were the case I'd say Go team Stannis. But this is GOT so Stannis will probabaly be killed by Hodor next series or something :P

Good?

Stannis burned his uncle alive for refusing to refute the old gods for the 'one true god'.

I would also have serious concerns about what Mellisandre has in store for Stannis daughter who seems to have jumped from tradition and displays a personality. Not really holding out for Stannis to see the light (da dum) and protect her.

Either way, Stannis is a ruthless, religiously fanatical bore (the last bit being the worst! ;p )

GerB40

DL Saint wrote: »

So wait.....is Stannis a "Good Guy" now? Has he always been? Could it be possible that he recruits a strong wildling force and then rally up the remaining Northerners and maybe even the army of the Vale? Then you would have Stannis' Army, The Red Woman, The Golden Company, Wildling Force, Armies Loyal to the Starks, Army of the Vale (and maybe even the Tyrells) , Brotherhood without Banners Vs. Boltons and a diminishing Lannister Force...If that were the case I'd say Go team Stannis. But this is GOT so Stannis will probabaly be killed by Hodor next series or something :P

Regarding whether Stannis is good or bad, he's the greyest shade of grey in a story full of grey characters..
He does bad things (burning his uncle alive for not worshipping the lord of light, chopping Davos' fingers off for being a smuggler) but they're all, in his eyes, for the greater good.
He never wanted to be king, it was a position that fell to him through Westeros' laws and customs. But now that he is, he will do whatever it takes to be recognized as such. Things like religion, black magic, buying mercenaries, they're all beneath Stannis but with a throne to sit on he has to lower his morals, again for the greater good.
Basically he's neither good nor bad, but he is the lawful and rightful king of Westeros and is duty bound to fight for recognition.

Anachrony

DL Saint wrote: »

So wait.....is Stannis a "Good Guy" now? Has he always been?

More like Lawful Stupid. He's not the best and he's not the worst. But whatever his personal faults, he seems like the sort of guy who would actually stop his campaigning for a bit to prevent Westeros from being invaded if he gets the chance, which is more than you can say about some claimants for the Iron Throne.

It remains to be seen if he can be convinced of the true existential threat to Westeros, but with that fire witch whispering in his ear, he's probably more predisposed to believe in ice monsters than the Lannisters would be.

loyatemu

GerB40 wrote: »

he is the lawful and rightful king of Westeros and is duty bound to fight for recognition.

Technically Dany is the lawful ruler - her father was overthrown in a rebellion.

A Neurotic

loyatemu wrote: »

Technically Dany is the lawful ruler - her father was overthrown in a rebellion.

Robert's rebellion gave him a recognised right to the throne by conquest. Upon his death, that right falls to Stannis.

December2012

Good guy or not, he's the only one of the Kings claiming the throne who shows up to actually protect the realm.

Awkward Badger

What about Gendry ? As Roberts oldest son would he not be the heir before Stannis bastard or not ? Is that not why the Lannisters had all his bastards killed ?

I also wouldn't class him as a good guy really. Misguided and stupid would probably be a better description. He's done a lot of dodgy stuff in the name of the Lord of Light. His protection of the realm from the wildlings is just another angle for him to gain power and if he does I doubt it'll be all peace and prosperity.

December2012

Gendry has not been legitimised so is not his heir.

Awkward Badger

December2012 wrote: »

Gendry has not been legitimised so is not his heir.

So the Lannisters were more just killing the bastards to hide the evidence of the fact none of Roberts actual children were anything like Cersi and Jamies then ?

GerB40

Pugsly wrote: »

So the Lannisters were more just killing the bastards to hide the evidence of the fact none of Roberts actual children were anything like Cersi and Jamies then ?

Roberts bastards were living, breathing proof that Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen were not his. They actually proved the stories about Cersei and Jaime to be true which was far worse because it was effectively a death sentence for Cersei, Jaime and their bastard offspring.