GoT Illiterate Season 4 finale *HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS*

OneOfThem Stumbled

Dan_Solo wrote: »

We know what he found, but what was he expecting to find?

His father, Lord Tywin. He knew the secret stairs/ladder led directly to the Hand's chamber.

His primary motivation was to talk to Tywin before leaving King's Landing.<snip> MOD: No book discussion here please.

seligehgit

challengemaster wrote: »

Read this wiki, in the notes section, but only specifically about this episode. It doesn't spoil anything, but it does explain fully the reasons for Tyrion doing what he did.

Challengemaster that's a cracking link to the episode summary/summaries.Thanks...kinda knew the background that contributed to the rage that led to Tyrion's decision to kill his father.

camlik

I quite liked Aya leaving the hound, I don't think she Did it out of hate or anything. I took it as yes she had developed this bound with him but she has just become this stone killer due to the losses she had suffered, hence taking the silver and walking away. I'd have to watch the scene again but I don't think at any point she made any kind of facial expression.

In my opinion a moment between the two of them before she finished him off although a "nice" scene is just a little too over used ya know?

Syferus

EyeSight wrote: »

Good finale.
I hated the Bran stuff. It was all a bit too "Narnia" for me.

I'm really going to miss the Hound. I'm surprised Arya left him like that. I know she wanted to kill him but they had a bond and he lost his life protecting her(even after he found there was no reward). Is she still going North or to Bravos?

I assume the Northern people will want Stannis as their king now, seeing as he saved them. Maybe Stannis Vs Bolton next season?

I hope the Tyrells stick around - for obvious reasons

I'd expect Stannis to deal with Bolton in short order. He's just coming back from a long campaign with Robb, then routing once-friendly forces and dealing with the Iron Islanders. The factions still loyal to the Starks will definitely back Stannis against Bolton, particularly if he gets Jon to come along, the Red Woman clearly has some use for him.

Wouldn't be surprised if Mance brokered a deal for the remaining Wildlings to fight for Stannis in exchange for being able to move south of the wall, so everything looks to be stacked in Stannis' favour right now.

Last we saw Bolton and his newly-minted legitimate son were moving into Winterfell, a settlement they devastated themselves and hence probably will make for easy pickings for Stannis. Unless the Boltons pull back both could be dead or captured quite early in the conflict.

wp_rathead

Syferus wrote: »

I'd expect Stannis to deal with Bolton in short order. He's just coming back from a long campaign with Robb, then routing once-friendly forces and dealing with the Iron Islanders. The factions still loyal to the Starks will definitely back Stannis against Bolton, particularly if he gets Jon to come along, the Red Woman clearly has some use for him.

Wouldn't be surprised if Mance brokered a deal for the remaining Wildlings to fight for Stannis in exchange for being able to move south of the wall, so everything looks to be stacked in Stannis' favour right now.

Last we saw Bolton and his newly-minted legitimate son were moving into Winterfell, a settlement they devastated themselves and hence probably will make for easy pickings for Stannis. Unless the Boltons pull back both could be dead or captured quite early in the conflict.

Don't forget Littlefinger plans to use The Vale's army aswell with lil Robin leading the way- I'm guessing he will join with Stannis? Who knows - arggggh can't wait till Season 5

sebastianlieken

did the wildlings light that massive fire behind them to deter the white walkers?

bluesfan

sebastianlieken wrote: »

did the wildlings light that massive fire behind them to deter the white walkers?

The wildlings were split in two, a large force north of the wall and a smaller one south of it. With no way of communicating between them the fire was a prearranged signal so that both forces could attack the wall at the same time.

garv123

How were wildlings south of the wall? I taught the wall was what kept them north?

shruikan2553

garv123 wrote: »

How were wildlings south of the wall? I taught the wall was what kept them north?

A group climbed over the wall. Its possible to do in some parts with a small enough group.

wp_rathead

garv123 wrote: »

How were wildlings south of the wall? I taught the wall was what kept them north?

LionelNashe

Does anyone know where the mountaintop scenes with Arya, The Hound, Brienne were filmed? Was it Ireland? If so, which mountains?

gazzamc

LionelNashe wrote: »

Does anyone know where the mountaintop scenes with Arya, The Hound, Brienne were filmed? Was it Ireland? If so, which mountains?

You won't find him there ;P it's too late..

LionelNashe

LionelNashe wrote: »

Does anyone know where the mountaintop scenes with Arya, The Hound, Brienne were filmed? Was it Ireland? If so, which mountains?

Looking at it again, it looks more like Scotland.

jebidiah

challengemaster wrote: »

Read this wiki, in the notes section, but only specifically about this episode. It doesn't spoil anything, but it does explain fully the reasons for Tyrion doing what he did.

I dissagree. If you are refering to what that wiki says about his motivation to go fins Tywin. That is the book motivation. I don't think it has any relation to the tv show at all.

In the tv show, I'm taking it that Tyrion goes to the tower of the hand because he knows his father is having him executed even though he is innocent. I think he was pretty stupid though, he should have just left, but in the end it works out well for him, kind of!

Dan_Solo

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think the glow was mainly supposed to be from the fire, the glow from a fire that size would easily have been visible from where they were even with the wall there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63mh7htd5OI
They can quite clearly see the fire from the other side of the wall. The Warg wasn't necessary for that.

Dan_Solo

jebidiah wrote: »

I dissagree. If you are refering to what that wiki says about his motivation to go fins Tywin. That is the book motivation. I don't think it has any relation to the tv show at all.

In the tv show, I'm taking it that Tyrion goes to the tower of the hand because he knows his father is having him executed even though he is innocent. I think he was pretty stupid though, he should have just left, but in the end it works out well for him, kind of!

Whether Tywin really was going to allow Tyrion to be executed or not, Tyrion certainly believed Tywin was going to do so. Why would he seek him out? To kill him? He only seemed to be enraged enough to kill his father after finding Shae. Still not sure why he went walkabout in the first place.

jebidiah

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Whether Tywin really was going to allow Tyrion to be executed or not, Tyrion certainly believed Tywin was going to do so. Why would he seek him out? To kill him? He only seemed to be enraged enough to kill his father after finding Shae. Still not sure why he went walkabout in the first place.

I agree! I'd of legged it.

But then again he is tywins son, hear me roar and all that.

Awkward Badger

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Whether Tywin really was going to allow Tyrion to be executed or not, Tyrion certainly believed Tywin was going to do so. Why would he seek him out? To kill him? He only seemed to be enraged enough to kill his father after finding Shae. Still not sure why he went walkabout in the first place.

Yeah but this was the last he was going to see of his family. He probably couldn't leave without confronting his father that had sentenced him to death even knowing he was innocent. He seemed very confused and hurt over the fact Tywin was happy to see him dead.

Witcher

It was a bit like the ending of Heat when De Niro is on the way out of the country and suddenly decides to turn back to square things with the guy who betrayed him.

It's just the desire for closure no matter what the risk is.

Gadgie

LionelNashe wrote: »

Does anyone know where the mountaintop scenes with Arya, The Hound, Brienne were filmed? Was it Ireland? If so, which mountains?

I think it's in Iceland.

nibtrix

Dan_Solo wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63mh7htd5OI
They can quite clearly see the fire from the other side of the wall. The Warg wasn't necessary for that.

Looks like we're both right, the warg says "it's time" as the owl on the wall has seen what's happening, they all look up and can see the glow from the fire. It's funny what bits you remember and what you don't!

Lingua Franca

Gadgie wrote: »

I think it's in Iceland.

Well spotted!

It was shot over three days in Iceland after six weeks of hardcore training.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-4-finale-gwendoline-christie-left-really-badly-beaten-up-after-brienne-and-the-hound-battle-9542527.html

bopper

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Ah, I've never bought this argument.

Just because 24 has some far fetched things, doesn't mean that it would be reasonable for Jack Bauer to use an invisibility device, or a gun that shrinks his enemies to the size of tumb-tacks.

Or if in Breaking Bad it turned out that Gus Fring was using Sky Blue to fund the building of a giant cannon on the moon that could be used to blow up the earth. The fact that Gus Fring's enterprise is a bit unrealistic wouldn't make that okay.

I'm fine with skeletons being controlled like puppets... but this didn't seem to be the case. Who are the puppeteers and what are the rules on their usage? If the skeletons are sentient, that throws up a whole different set of questions...

That's not really the same thing at all. 24 and Breaking Bad both have a questionable premise, but they're still set in the same universe that we are. Plus, what you're saying is that just because a show is far fetched, that doesn't mean you can introduce something entirely unrealistic and not humanly possible. Which I agree with, but that's different to what we're talking about here. Skeletons coming to life is already something completely unrealistic, but we can forgive that because this is a fantasy adventure show. It seems strange then to get hung up on something like how the skeletons can see, when you're already going along with the fact that they're alive in the first place!

Dan_Solo

bopper wrote: »

That's not really the same thing at all. 24 and Breaking Bad both have a questionable premise, but they're still set in the same universe that we are. Plus, what you're saying is that just because a show is far fetched, that doesn't mean you can introduce something entirely unrealistic and not humanly possible. Which I agree with, but that's different to what we're talking about here. Skeletons coming to life is already something completely unrealistic, but we can forgive that because this is a fantasy adventure show. It seems strange then to get hung up on something like how the skeletons can see, when you're already going along with the fact that they're alive in the first place!

Nobody's hung up on that. Who put them there and why are the questions. Magic is magic, but we expect motivation to be exactly the same as in our universe, otherwise there is nothing to relate to in a show.

bopper

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Nobody's hung up on that. Who put them there and why are the questions. Magic is magic, but we expect motivation to be exactly the same as in our universe, otherwise there is nothing to relate to in a show.

Actually the post I originally replied to is.

Lemlin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63mh7htd5OI
They can quite clearly see the fire from the other side of the wall. The Warg wasn't necessary for that.

So why did they send the Warg up onto the rooftop then?

Also, they can see the glow from the fire in the night sky. They cannot see the fire itself. And none of them looked up until the Warg said "It's time".

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Whether Tywin really was going to allow Tyrion to be executed or not, Tyrion certainly believed Tywin was going to do so. Why would he seek him out? To kill him? He only seemed to be enraged enough to kill his father after finding Shae. Still not sure why he went walkabout in the first place.

We don't know why he was seeking him out. We would have found out but he found Shae in his father's bed, something he was not expecting to find, and whether or not that changed his plans we do not yet know. Perhaps he will reveal his reasoning next season when speaking to another character.

Degag

Lemlin wrote: »

We don't know why he was seeking him out. We would have found out but he found Shae in his father's bed, something he was not expecting to find, and whether or not that changed his plans we do not yet know. Perhaps he will reveal his reasoning next season when speaking to another character.

I think it definitely changes his reasoning. He only gets the crossbow after killing Shae. Although I'm not quite sure what he was planning - was he just going to talk with his father and expect him to let him escape? I still don't think that Tywin was going to let him be executed but at the same time, Tyrion could not be sure.

Lemlin

Degag wrote: »

I think it definitely changes his reasoning. He only gets the crossbow after killing Shae. Although I'm not quite sure what he was planning - was he just going to talk with his father and expect him to let him escape? I still don't think that Tywin was going to let him be executed but at the same time, Tyrion could not be sure.

We don't even know though if he planned to speak to his father. For all we know, he was going to the room to grab a valuable possession.

After all, Tyrion likes his vices and he is facing the prospect of leaving with nothing.

Wile E. Coyote

It was a good episode but it was very rushed and a little disappointed.


At the start when the army started attacking I thought great another brilliant battle. Hadn't a clue who it was, could have been the white walkers, could have been the Boltons, could have been Stanis....Could have been a mixture of everyone but the battle was over in about 3 minutes. Where were the 100,000 wildlings? Where were the giants? You can't defeat an army that quickly just because you've a few horses and if it was so easy for Stanis to get North of the wall why couldn't the wildlings build a boat themselves to go south?


The Calisi story is starting to bore me. She gets a couple of minutes per episode and it's always the same thing. She has 3 dragons, why did she only lock up 2?


Loved the fight with Brienne and the Hound but wasn't happy to see him killed off. Thought himself and Arya made a good team and they'd work together till they eventually fought and them she killed him. Still hoping he makes a return after she's had more training from the other guy she's going to meet.

Degag

Lemlin wrote: »

We don't even know though if he planned to speak to his father. For all we know, he was going to the room to grab a valuable possession.

After all, Tyrion likes his vices and he is facing the prospect of leaving with nothing.

Maybe, don't see why he entered his room unless he was going to speak to him.

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

The Calisi story is starting to bore me. She gets a couple of minutes per episode and it's always the same thing. She has 3 dragons, why did she only lock up 2?

One has gone AWOL.

Dan_Solo

Degag wrote: »

Maybe, don't see why he entered his room unless he was going to speak to him.

Yeah, if he was after something valuable wouldn't he have gone to his own quarters? He knew he'd run into Tywin, even if not Shae, since that's who's room he went to. And since he was convinced Tywin was going to let him be executed, he must have been going there to kill him all along.

Dan_Solo

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

The Calisi story is starting to bore me. She gets a couple of minutes per episode and it's always the same thing. She has 3 dragons, why did she only lock up 2?

One was reported to her as being seen flying off somewhere. Presumably Bran will get his warging on that one first. Can Bran and Dany come to a pact long term though, with him staying north of the wall and somebody who isn't a complete looney as king? Hope Dany keeps those two locked up dragons well fed for when Bran needs them.

SeanJ09

I agree with some of the poster above regarding the ease at which Stannis could defeat 100,000 wildlings. Since season 2, the nights watch have been getting warnings about Mance building an huge wildling army, but they surrender to Stannis without much of a fight. Will be interesting to see what Stannis will do with the captured wildlings now. Does he want to recruit them for an attack on Kings Landing or the white walkers?

dinorebel

SeanJ09 wrote: »

I agree with some of the poster above regarding the ease at which Stannis could defeat 100,000 wildlings. Since season 2, the nights watch have been getting warnings about Mance building an huge wildling army, but they surrender to Stannis without much of a fight. Will be interesting to see what Stannis will do with the captured wildlings now. Does he want to recruit them for an attack on Kings Landing or the white walkers?

I think the surrender has a lot do do with Mance wanting to save the wildings not get them killed needlessly.

Lemlin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Yeah, if he was after something valuable wouldn't he have gone to his own quarters? He knew he'd run into Tywin, even if not Shae, since that's who's room he went to. And since he was convinced Tywin was going to let him be executed, he must have been going there to kill him all along.

Not if he's looking for something that is kept in the quarters of the Hand of the King. Or perhaps he has no access to his own room through the tunnel system so goes to the Hand's.

Degag wrote: »

Maybe, don't see why he entered his room unless he was going to speak to him.

My own theory is that he planned to confront him. His hope was that he would have one last chance at staying. I can't see Tyrion being very happy without the riches of his family. I can see him risking his life to try and keep those.

Penn

SeanJ09 wrote: »

I agree with some of the poster above regarding the ease at which Stannis could defeat 100,000 wildlings. Since season 2, the nights watch have been getting warnings about Mance building an huge wildling army, but they surrender to Stannis without much of a fight. Will be interesting to see what Stannis will do with the captured wildlings now. Does he want to recruit them for an attack on Kings Landing or the white walkers?

The entire wildling army likely wasn't located in that one camp though. They were probably spread out a bit along the Wall in separate camps and used wargs or something to communicate with each other. It'd make no sense to have the whole wildling army in one place. But once Stannis attacked, there was no point in trying to fight. They were caught completely off-guard, they're not as well trained, armoured or experienced as Stannis' army, and they'd already lost a lot of men in the attack on the Wall and didn't want to lose more unnecessarily.

Awkward Badger

SeanJ09 wrote: »

I agree with some of the poster above regarding the ease at which Stannis could defeat 100,000 wildlings. Since season 2, the nights watch have been getting warnings about Mance building an huge wildling army, but they surrender to Stannis without much of a fight. Will be interesting to see what Stannis will do with the captured wildlings now. Does he want to recruit them for an attack on Kings Landing or the white walkers?

They were caught unaware on both flanks by mounted cavalry. They would have been butchered had they not surrendered and Mance knew it which is why to gave the order to stand down.

By the sounds of it though Stannis will recruit them and possibly come to some arrangement giving them land in the north swearing fealty to him and fighting for him to take the kingdom.

RichFTW

Pugsly wrote: »

They were caught unaware on both flanks by mounted cavalry. They would have been butchered had they not surrendered and Mance knew it which is why to gave the order to stand down.

By the sounds of it though Stannis will recruit them and possibly come to some arrangement giving them land in the north swearing fealty to him and fighting for him to take the kingdom.

I highly doubt they will swear fealty to Stannis considering their big thing is not kneeling to any king in the south. I could see them defending the wall if Stannis trusts them after talking with Mance though. Not for land, but to avoid the white walkers.

Feed me Seymour

I watched the episode a 2nd time last night, and I'm hoping someone could help me with a query I have.

Where did Arya go: Bravos or the North? I had originally presumed it was Bravos, but when I viewed it again last night, the coast line was to the left, which would mean she is heading North (I presume the Vale is on the East coast and she hardly travelled to the other side in a few minutes on her own).

irishejit

Feed me Seymour wrote: »

I watched the episode a 2nd time last night, and I'm hoping someone could help me with a query I have.

Where did Arya go: Bravos or the North? I had originally presumed it was Bravos, but when I viewed it again last night, the coast line was to the left, which would mean she is heading North (I presume the Vale is on the East coast and she hardly travelled to the other side in a few minutes on her own).

The assumption would be Bravos. The coin she gave the Captain was from Jaqen H'ghar, the assassin bloke from an earlier series. The deal was if she ever needed to meet him again to give that coin to anyone from Bravos and they would take her to him.

Awkward Badger

RichFTW wrote: »

I highly doubt they will swear fealty to Stannis considering their big thing is not kneeling to any king in the south. I could see them defending the wall if Stannis trusts them after talking with Mance though. Not for land, but to avoid the white walkers.

Cant see them manning the wall, they aint the types to be taking oaths. Mance was once a man of the nights watch and he turned his back on them.

They may come to some arrangement without swearing fealty maybe.

Dan_Solo

Penn wrote: »

They were probably spread out a bit along the Wall in separate camps and used wargs or something to communicate with each other.

Mance didn't have any wargs or he would've known exactly how poorly defended the wall was. He sent both his wargs south. Or else the wargs he kept can't use birds?

Dan_Solo

RichFTW wrote: »

I highly doubt they will swear fealty to Stannis considering their big thing is not kneeling to any king in the south. I could see them defending the wall if Stannis trusts them after talking with Mance though. Not for land, but to avoid the white walkers.

Does anybody know why the watch gave up the wall to an invading army (Stannis) when they were ready to die to the last man against another invading army (Mance). Isn't their oath to protect the Seven Kingdoms against all invaders?

RichFTW

Pugsly wrote: »

Cant see them manning the wall, they aint the types to be taking oaths. Mance was once a man of the nights watch and he turned his back on them.

They may come to some arrangement without swearing fealty maybe.

They don't have to take an oath to defend the wall, just like Stannis' soldiers didn't take an oath when they defended it by attacking Mance's army.

The wall needs people to man the unmanned stations. The wildlings want protection from the white walkers. Win win situation for them to help at the wall rather than be killed by Stannis.

RichFTW

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Does anybody know why the watch gave up the wall to an invading army (Stannis) when they were ready to die to the last man against another invading army (Mance). Isn't their oath to protect the Seven Kingdoms against all invaders?

Maester Aemon asked for Stannis' help along with the other lords so he's not invading at all, he is defending the wall.

Dan_Solo

RichFTW wrote: »

Maester Aemon asked for Stannis' help along with the other lords so he's not invading at all, he is defending the wall.

So they've technically just let two armies invade the Seven Kingdoms... I wouldn't be expecting too much help from HQ after that! Unless Stannis makes it to King's Landing. So everybody believes the white walkers are coming now and are a much greater threat?

nibtrix

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So they've technically just let two armies invade the Seven Kingdoms... I wouldn't be expecting too much help from HQ after that! Unless Stannis makes it to King's Landing. So everybody believes the white walkers are coming now and are a much greater threat?

They haven't given up the wall to Stannis or let him "invade". Also there's nothing to say they've let the wildling army through the wall at this point!

irishejit

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So they've technically just let two armies invade the Seven Kingdoms... I wouldn't be expecting too much help from HQ after that! Unless Stannis makes it to King's Landing. So everybody believes the white walkers are coming now and are a much greater threat?

Aemon sent letters to each of the 5 Kings asking for help at the wall....Davos spotted the letter whilst learning to read...also have a look at the video posted earlier in the thread where George RR Martin explains Stannis's presence.....not an invasion at all

Taylor365

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So they've technically just let two armies invade the Seven Kingdoms... I wouldn't be expecting too much help from HQ after that! Unless Stannis makes it to King's Landing. So everybody believes the white walkers are coming now and are a much greater threat?

Also, Stannis lives in the seven kingdoms....wouldn't be hard for him to invade it.

RichFTW

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So they've technically just let two armies invade the Seven Kingdoms... I wouldn't be expecting too much help from HQ after that! Unless Stannis makes it to King's Landing. So everybody believes the white walkers are coming now and are a much greater threat?

Like I said Stannis isn't invading. Also the wildlings haven't gone past the wall yet, them manning it is me speculating as it makes sense to me given the circumstances. Could be wrong.