GoT Illiterate Season 4 finale *HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS*

Feed me Seymour

irishejit wrote: »

The assumption would be Bravos. The coin she gave the Captain was from Jaqen H'ghar, the assassin bloke from an earlier series. The deal was if she ever needed to meet him again to give that coin to anyone from Bravos and they would take her to him.

Assumptions and Game of Thrones dont always go hand in hand though.

I originally thought she was going to Bravos, but as mentioned earlier, the 2nd viewing showed the ship heading north(ish). When Arya asked if the Captain could bring her North, it was only when he said he was from Bravos did she give him the coin and he replied you can have a cabin. Its not mentioned where the destination is then. Who's to say Jaqen is in Essos as he was last seen in Westeros.

Maybe I'm over analysing it.

Chet T16

I was too distracted by the awesome version of the theme tune to know which way she was heading!

Lemlin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So they've technically just let two armies invade the Seven Kingdoms... I wouldn't be expecting too much help from HQ after that! Unless Stannis makes it to King's Landing. So everybody believes the white walkers are coming now and are a much greater threat?

How can Stannis "invade" somewhere he already lives? The Knights Watch protect the realm from the mysterious others beyond the wall.

I see the Knights Watch as an Order that keep out of all the struggles for power.

OctavarIan

Feed me Seymour wrote: »

I watched the episode a 2nd time last night, and I'm hoping someone could help me with a query I have.

Where did Arya go: Bravos or the North? I had originally presumed it was Bravos, but when I viewed it again last night, the coast line was to the left, which would mean she is heading North (I presume the Vale is on the East coast and she hardly travelled to the other side in a few minutes on her own).

The Vale is indeed on the east. Braavos is to the north-east of it.

HBO do a map of every episode, here's the map for episode 10.

Awkward Badger

I guess with Tyrion and Varys going to Essos they will likely be connected with the Danaerys storyline next season ?

Dan_Solo

Lemlin wrote: »

How can Stannis "invade" somewhere he already lives? The Knights Watch protect the realm from the mysterious others beyond the wall.

Mance could just have asked to be let through the wall then.

Dan_Solo

Pugsly wrote: »

I guess with Tyrion and Varys going to Essos they will likely be connected with the Danaerys storyline next season ?

I sincerely hope so. Her storyline needs some Tyrion in it badly.

loyatemu

Pugsly wrote: »

I guess with Tyrion and Varys going to Essos they will likely be connected with the Danaerys storyline next season ?

Essos is a very big place - weren't they going to Braavos? It's nowhere near where Dany is.

seamus

Pugsly wrote: »

I guess with Tyrion and Varys going to Essos they will likely be connected with the Danaerys storyline next season ?

I'm not sure. If you see the map linked above, Danaerys is in Meereen which is 3 times further away from King's landing than everyone else.

If/when she decides she's going to take her dragons and march her army to Westeros, it's going to take quite a while

It seems unlikely that 3 main characters would make their way across to Essos and *not* stumble upon eachother, but then since season one we've had 8 Starks wandering across Westeros who never seemed to be able to find eachother

Lemlin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Mance could just have asked to be let through the wall then.

Mance is coming from beyond the wall with an army of wildlings. If you read my post it states:

"The Knights Watch protect the realm from the mysterious others beyond the wall".

Dan_Solo

Lemlin wrote: »

Mance is coming from beyond the wall with an arm of wildlings. If you read my post it states:

"The Knights Watch protect the realm from the mysterious others beyond the wall".

It remains to be seen whether the wildlings will be let through, but if they are then the watch have broken their oath.
I thought it was a mixed group of wildlings, with women and children and everything? i.e. a migration.

Feed me Seymour

OctavarIan wrote: »

The Vale is indeed on the east. Braavos is to the north-east of it.

HBO do a map of every episode, [].

Aha, that was just what I needed. I always presumed essos was south of westoros, not beside it (and below it). Makes perfect sense now. Bravos is the destination.

Taylor365

Feed me Seymour wrote: »

Aha, that was just what I needed. I always presumed essos was south of westoros, not beside it (and below it). Makes perfect sense now. Bravos is the destination.

Like East (Essos) and West (Westeros).

Arya to come across Ser Jorah on her travels maybe?

Lemlin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

It remains to be seen whether the wildlings will be let through, but if they are then the watch have broken their oath.
I thought it was a mixed group of wildlings, with women and children and everything? i.e. a migration.

Here's a copy of the oath:

Hear my words and bear witness to my vow. Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

How you read it is up to you. Even Sam pointed out in episode 9 that in terms of sex it only refers to not taking a wife or fathering children. It says nothing about taking a lover.

There's certainly nothing there which states the Watch cannot let a group pass through if they believe they will not cause harm so I cannot see why you think they would be breaking their oath.

As for the group, there is women and children but there are also individuals like the Thenn who are cannibals. They are the type of people that the Watch are there to stop getting through.

Dan_Solo

They could've just let the good lads through then I guess. If Mance hadn't decided they needed to group together and attack.

Lemlin

Lemlin wrote: »

As for the group, there is women and children but there are also individuals like the Thenn who are cannibals. They are the type of people that the Watch are there to stop getting through.

I believe the part of the oath concerns "the realms of men" the wildlings would be considered men, so technically they can protect them. The wall was built to keep other things out not people. The wildlings just chose to live north of it.

Dan_Solo

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe the part of the oath concerns "the realms of men" the wildlings would be considered men, so technically they can protect them. The wall was built to keep other things out not people. The wildlings just chose to live north of it.

Odd then that they would need to attack the wall at all then. Seems like the whole battle was for nothing.

quad_red

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I believe the part of the oath concerns "the realms of men" the wildlings would be considered men, so technically they can protect them. The wall was built to keep other things out not people. The wildlings just chose to live north of it.

I think one of the main wildling grievances is that they didn't get a choice!

They ranged around what is now beyond the wall and the 'north' on the southside of the wall. It's part of the rant Ygritte has as she made arrows for the attack on castle black.

Lemlin

quad_red wrote: »

I think one of the main wildling grievances is that they didn't get a choice!

They ranged around what is now beyond the wall and the 'north' on the southside of the wall. It's part of the rant Ygritte has as she made arrows for the attack on castle black.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Odd then that they would need to attack the wall at all then. Seems like the whole battle was for nothing.

I found this online in wiki (no spoilers)

The Free Folk are descended from the First Men, as are the inhabitants of the North. They were, essentially, the people unlucky enough to be living north of the Wall when it was constructed eight thousand years ago. Besides this shared ethnic heritage, their common descent means that there are also many cultural similarities between the wildlings and the Northerners. The wildlings are much closer in lifestyle and habits to how the First Men lived thousands of years ago, as the North has come under some cultural influence from their Andal neighbors who invaded southern Westeros six thousand years ago, and particularly since the Seven Kingdoms were united into a single realm by the Targaryen Conquest three hundred years ago.[3]

Over the ages, the people of the Seven Kingdoms to the south had largely forgotten why the Wall was constructed in the first place and came to believe that it exists to protect the realm from the wildlings, whom they regard as primitive savages and barbarians. However, the Night's Watch knows it was originally constructed to defend against the possible return of the near-mythical White Walkers. Since the White Walkers did not return for the past eight thousand years, the Night's Watch has mostly shifted its focus to preventing the wildlings from crossing south of the Wall, and sending out patrols into the wilderness to keep track of wildling movements. The shift of focus also reduced the Night's Watch from a band of honorable warriors into largely a dumping ground for exiled criminals.

Taylor365

The Wildlings are known as savages (as you saw on the village raids) south of the wall. The night's watch also have history with them.

THIS is why they couldn't just waltz through....do you even watch the show?

Lemlin

Taylor365 wrote: »

The Wildlings are known as savages (as you saw on the village raids) south of the wall. The night's watch also have history with them.

THIS is why they couldn't just waltz through....do you even watch the show?

Plus, as I've pointed out, among their ranks you have lads like the Thenns who are cannibals. Not the type you invite round for a cuppa.

tok9

Only read the last page or two.

Was just wondering was there a particular reason why Cersei wanted the Mountain saved at any cost?

I just don't see why she really cares.

dinorebel

Lemlin wrote: »

Plus, as I've pointed out, among their ranks you have lads like the Thenns who are cannibals. Not the type you invite round for a cuppa.

Inviting him round if fine it's what part of you he would use as biscuits that should worry you.

wp_rathead

tok9 wrote: »

Only read the last page or two.

Was just wondering was there a particular reason why Cersei wanted the Mountain saved at any cost?

I just don't see why she really cares.

Guessing cause he is such an asset to the Lannisters - having such a feared ally.. plus he was her champion so she owes it to him

Dan_Solo

Taylor365 wrote: »

The Wildlings are known as savages (as you saw on the village raids) south of the wall. The night's watch also have history with them.

THIS is why they couldn't just waltz through....do you even watch the show?

Mance said they never wanted to kill anyone. And guaranteed they'd be no trouble. Stannis and Jon apparently believed him.
Did you make a cuppa at that bit?

HungryJoe

tok9 wrote: »

Only read the last page or two.

Was just wondering was there a particular reason why Cersei wanted the Mountain saved at any cost?

I just don't see why she really cares.

A Lannister always pays her debts

Lemlin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Mance said they never wanted to kill anyone. And guaranteed they'd be no trouble. Stannis and Jon apparently believed him.
Did you make a cuppa at that bit?

Did you miss the episodes where the Wildlings had just attacked a number of villages? Whether they wanted to is not the point at that stage.

Stannis only spoke to Mance as he stood before him surrendering.

Dan_Solo

Lemlin wrote: »

Did you miss the episodes where the Wildlings had just attacked a number of villages? Whether they wanted to is not the point at that stage.

Stannis only spoke to Mance as he stood before him surrendering.

So then they shouldn't let them through as they are a threat to the kingdom and covered by the oath.

kryogen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So then they shouldn't let them through as they are a threat to the kingdom and covered by the oath.

They will not be letting them through, it is like pulling teeth reading your posts you know that, maybe try watching the show? Or are you one of those who gets his kicks from knowing the answers, possibly already read the books but likes to mess with people?

The wildlings have surrendered to Stannis, they are no longer an invading army, what in the name of **** are you going to pretend is difficult about that to understand?

Dan_Solo

kryogen wrote: »

They will not be letting them through, it is like pulling teeth reading your posts you know that, maybe try watching the show? Or are you one of those who gets his kicks from knowing the answers, possibly already read the books but likes to mess with people?

The wildlings have surrendered to Stannis, they are no longer an invading army, what in the name of **** are you going to pretend is difficult about that to understand?

So even though they were all willing to die attacking the wall last week because the white walkers were coming they will now all surrender because Stannis is here and wait to be killed.
Yeah. Got it now. No contradiction there.

kryogen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So even though they were all willing to die attacking the wall last week because the white walkers were coming they will now all surrender because Stannis is here and wait to be killed.
Yeah. Got it now. No contradiction there.

You actually still pretend to not get it?

Honestly this is beyond a joke at this stage, and there is no point sticking you on ignore as someone will always quote you and respond to the drivel

Royce McCutcheon

kryogen wrote: »

They will not be letting them through, it is like pulling teeth reading your posts you know that, maybe try watching the show? Or are you one of those who gets his kicks from knowing the answers, possibly already read the books but likes to mess with people?

The wildlings have surrendered to Stannis, they are no longer an invading army, what in the name of **** are you going to pretend is difficult about that to understand?

Relax there

Dan_Solo

kryogen wrote: »

You actually still pretend to not get it?

Honestly this is beyond a joke at this stage, and there is no point sticking you on ignore as people always quote you.

Fact that you couldn't explain contradiction noted.
Maybe your own denied confusion has you so angry?

kryogen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Fact that you couldn't explain contradiction noted.
Maybe your own denied confusion has you so angry?

There is no contradiction. Has that explained it well enough for you?

You have me angry, every week. It is complete bull**** all the time, couldn't give a toss if it seems over the top right now.

calex71

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Fact that you couldn't explain contradiction noted.
Maybe your own denied confusion has you so angry?

A here Dan , I've had enough at this point you've plenty of warnings and you are outright trolling at this point.

Dan_Solo

kryogen wrote: »

There is no contradiction. Has that explained it well enough for you?

You have me angry, every week. It is complete bull**** all the time, couldn't give a toss if it seems over the top right now.

"Because I said so"?
Wow, no wonder you have so much pent up frustration with those debating skills.

Mod Edit: He has been banned. Please stop reporting this post.

kryogen

Dan_Solo wrote: »

"Because I said so"?
Wow, no wonder you have so much pent up frustration with those debating skills.

I had a post typed out here to go even further with reasoning, but whats the point?

Instead I will just say again, there is no contradiction, and its not because I said so. You perceive a contradiction where there is none. You pretend there is no difference in an invading army and prisoners. Thats on you.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Fact that you couldn't explain contradiction noted.
Maybe your own denied confusion has you so angry?

The Night's Watch doesn't really have the authority to do something like letting lots of wildlings through the wall; the land that they control south of the wall ins't huge, so it would, nominally I suppose, come under the remit of the Warden of the North or possibly the king to authorise such an action. Seeing that the Night's Watch's last interaction with king Joffrey Baratheon was to have their convoy slaughtered and pleas for aid ignored, I'd wager that communications between the two are strained at the moment.

The Night's Watch doesn't have many men and could easily be destroyed if thousands of wildlings are let through.

The wildlings can make it around or over the wall in dribs and drabs, but it's dangerous, both in the crossing and survival in the North. Crushing the Night's Watch in a pincer movement, and invading the North, seemed like a better idea to the vast majority.

After Stannis broke the wildlings with his cavalry, their strength is severely diminished. They can no longer realistically hope to break the Night's Watch, at least not whilst Stannis hangs around. They can either go back to attempting to cross in dribs and drabs, or hope for some sort of resolution with the crown.

iamanengine

lol, this conversation makes for fun reading :pac:

Tigger

iamanengine wrote: »

lol, this conversation makes for fun reading :pac:

Burn him he's a witch

iamanengine

Tigger wrote: »

Burn him he's a witch

Off topic but that reminded me of this gem

dinorebel

iamanengine wrote: »

lol, this conversation makes for fun reading :pac:

Better than a book:D

Duckworth_Luas

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Mod Edit: He has been banned. Please stop reporting this post.

And now his watch has ended

Tigger

iamanengine wrote: »

Off topic but that reminded me of this gem

She turned me into a newt
(It was ment to remind you )

Taylor365

kryogen wrote: »

I had a post typed out here to go even further with reasoning, but whats the point?

Instead I will just say again, there is no contradiction, and its not because I said so. You perceive a contradiction where there is none. You pretend there is no difference in an invading army and prisoners. Thats on you.

Can i just say a few words?

The thoughts of Mance 'The Lance' Rayder:

Send that loud mouth Red beardo, Snows lover and those Cannibals to 'suss' out the castle. I hate those guys.

Big wall. Lots of wildlings. Not as many crows as Jon Snow says (Mance knows the crows). We can take em.

Stannis.

$hit.

A real army.

Die now or possibly strike a bargain to escape the whitewalkers and live another day? (Mance actually has a brain! The shock!)

To be continued. :rolleyes:

SeanJ09

Taylor365 wrote: »

Like East (Essos) and West (Westeros).

Arya to come across Ser Jorah on her travels maybe?

With Ser Jorah having got a royal pardon, he is allowed to go back to Bear Island now right?

gazzamc

Taylor365 wrote: »

Can i just say a few words?

The thoughts of Mance 'The Lance' Rayder:

Send that loud mouth Red beardo, Snows lover and those Cannibals to 'suss' out the castle. I hate those guys.

Big wall. Lots of wildlings. Not as many crows as Jon Snow says (Mance knows the crows). We can take em.

Stannis.

$hit.

A real army.

Die now or possibly strike a bargain to escape the whitewalkers and live another day? (Mance actually has a brain! The shock!)

To be continued. :rolleyes:

This... They only tried to take the wall when they knew the crows were weak and could beat them.. They also knew the crows were made up with theifs and like with very little to no fighting skills..

Now that there is an army (Stannis) there they have no hope of winning, even in the numbers they have...

Had they even made it past castle black they would have been taken care of eventually once they stumbled onto the Boltons..

Just my thoughts on things.. Otherwise they would have fought to the death once Stannis attacked.

Da Shins Kelly

tok9 wrote: »

Only read the last page or two.

Was just wondering was there a particular reason why Cersei wanted the Mountain saved at any cost?

I just don't see why she really cares.

The doctor guy said that if he manages to save the Mountain, he'll still have his strength but he'll be changed in some way. I think it's a possibility that he my be a bit mindless, but if he still has his strength he could be used as just a mindless killing machine that she can just use at her behest.

kryogen

I don't think there was any double talk from Mance, he said he didn't want to fight, he didn't want death, I believe that, he just wants to get his people to the other side of the wall out of fear of whatever Winter is bringing with it when it comes

Presumably something to do with the wight walkers, I think if he can get south by peaceful means he will, and would have all along. It is because they are being kept out, as they are savages that they have to fight their way there. With them surrendering to Stannis they will still most likely get to the south, now as prisoners most likely, but they may be co-opted into his army after that if they pledge to fight for him, an agreement can be worked out or a compromise over this whole, we don't kneel thing.

The title King beyond the wall will have to go and he will have to recognise the authority of Stannis at the very least I would imagine.

I don't think Mance has any designs on invading and conquering or ever did, it is all about survival for him, the 100,000 wildlings includes the families. Its a mass migration caused by fear.

Awkward Badger

kryogen wrote: »

I don't think there was any double talk from Mance, he said he didn't want to fight, he didn't want death, I believe that, he just wants to get his people to the other side of the wall out of fear of whatever Winter is bringing with it when it comes

Presumably something to do with the wight walkers, I think if he can get south by peaceful means he will, and would have all along. It is because they are being kept out, as they are savages that they have to fight their way there. With them surrendering to Stannis they will still most likely get to the south, now as prisoners most likely, but they may be co-opted into his army after that if they pledge to fight for him, an agreement can be worked out or a compromise over this whole, we don't kneel thing.

The title King beyond the wall will have to go and he will have to recognise the authority of Stannis at the very least I would imagine.

I don't think Mance has any designs on invading and conquering or ever did, it is all about survival for him, the 100,000 wildlings includes the families. Its a mass migration caused by fear.

Problem is all the wildling clans are most likely just unified to fight a war against the "southerners". Remember what Ygritte was talking about, "They came up here, put up a big wall and said it was theirs". I doubt Mance could have unified all the clans with "Its not safe here, we need to get to the other side of the wall".

So even if he does come to a deal, how does Mance control the wildlings ? What stops them splintering again and reverting back to a group of warring factions ? Why would they give a shíte about Stannis and his war or Mance and his promises once they are in the north in force ?