New Quays cycle lane

monument

Uriel. wrote: »

I am not so sure that they are unrelated. The proposed cycle route will reduce the quays to one lane for private motor traffic. Traffic is already crazy as it is.

There are plenty of people that either will not, or cannot cycle into or through the city, so they will keep using their cars. Cutting the available lanes for cars by 50% is not going to cut car traffic by 50%. It will likely be reduced to a smaller degree and/or be pushed to alternative routes.

If you fix (some of) the problems and shortfalls in motorised public transport, you have some hope of this proposal not becoming a complete a mess, I thinlk, and that's why there's a connection.

Nobody is cutting the amount of traffic lanes by 50%. The pinch points are already down to one lane and that isn't been cut.

Uriel. wrote: »

Well anytime I need to be in the city late at night (during the week) I still need to get to work in the morning... if I know I can't get public transport (because it's finished for the night) it means I need to drive, that means driving into work in rush hour in the morning etc. As Seamus above said, moving last bus/train to 00:30 would be really good - sure you can't even go to a 21:30 film and make the last bus.

You talked about people who work late. Exactly how many people start work at the morning rush hour and work until after 11pm? We can't be planning our streets and transport systems around such a low amount of people.

Uriel. wrote: »

On the second issue, in terms of policy - the start and finish times of trains buses as already discussed, journey times are still too long in many instances, expansion of the rail/light rail north of the Liffey, and still one of my biggest gripes, the inconsistency of Dublin Bus. far too often buses are late or are no shows. It is excusable on occasion (driver sick, an accident etc.) but i still experience regularly. It is particularly frustrating when the Live timetable shows the bus as "due"

Luas Cross City is going into the northside and two BRT routes are planned for the northside -- To Blanch and to Swords.

Uriel.

monument wrote: »

Nobody is cutting the amount of traffic lanes by 50%. The pinch points are already down to one lane and that isn't been cut.

I was under the impression that the North Quays (or part of anyway) would go from two lanes for private vehicles down to one?

You talked about people who work late. Exactly how many people start work at the morning rush hour and work until after 11pm? We can't be planning our streets and transport systems around such a low amount of people.

I spoke about people who work late and/or stay in the city after work to socialise etc. I do this regularly. I haven't taken a census of others who do similar. A modest extension of operating hours would solve this.

Luas Cross City is going into the northside and two BRT routes are planned for the northside -- To Blanch and to Swords.

Luas cross city is a good development but only barely stretches into the Northside to be fair and doesn't really cover the sprawling suburbs.

I remain unconvinced about the BRT plans to be honest. They sounds like a stop-gap measure to make up for MN being shelved. Improving Dublin bus, even to the point of running additional expresso buses would be a cheaper option.

Integrated ticketing is a major problem too. Silly little things make the public transport less attractive - e.g. you can't top up a LEAP card online or via mobile phone on the fly.

If you switch from car to public transport and the route is not direct and you have to use various modes of "integrated" public transport, the cost becomes huge. e.g. a trip that requires bus and luas becomes very expensive very quickly - annual Bus and LUAS tickets are very expensive, particularly if your route require one bus and one luas trip each way every day.

An annual Dublin public transport card covering all modes of public transport would be great, and could be cheaper.

Riskymove

monument wrote: »

Nobody is cutting the amount of traffic lanes by 50%. The pinch points are already down to one lane and that isn't been cut.

what happens at these pinch points then

there is a strectch currently where there are only two lanes - 1 bus lane (peak hours) and one private lane....where will the cycle lane fit in?

LXFlyer

howiya wrote: »

Reduced summer bus schedules started yesterday. It's almost as if they want people to drive and then decide that they're going to penalise drivers by shoehorning them into the smallest space possible.

All in favour of ridding the city centre of car traffic but an alternative that can obtain the confidence of the public must be in place first

With respect the loadings on buses and public transport drop significantly (particularly during the peak hours) in the summer time and if you are trying to suggest otherwise, then you're living in a different world. Do you seriously think it is good business sense to keep a full schedule operating when there are far less people using the bus?


It's something that should have been done years ago.

monument

Uriel. wrote: »

I was under the impression that the North Quays (or part of anyway) would go from two lanes for private vehicles down to one?

The quays are around 4km and, currently, for more than half of that distance there's only one general traffic lane in one or each direction.

So, cutting more of the quays down to one general traffic lane cannot amount to cutting 50% of the general traffic lanes.

Uriel. wrote: »

I spoke about people who work late and/or stay in the city after work to socialise etc. I do this regularly. I haven't taken a census of others who do similar. A modest extension of operating hours would solve this.

Indeed it would, but it's something that should happen regardless of this project and my original reply was replying to your point on people who finish work after 11am (the bulk of these people don't commute in the AM peak).

Uriel. wrote: »

Luas cross city is a good development but only barely stretches into the Northside to be fair and doesn't really cover the sprawling suburbs.

I remain unconvinced about the BRT plans to be honest. They sounds like a stop-gap measure to make up for MN being shelved. Improving Dublin bus, even to the point of running additional expresso buses would be a cheaper option.

Integrated ticketing is a major problem too. Silly little things make the public transport less attractive - e.g. you can't top up a LEAP card online or via mobile phone on the fly.

If you switch from car to public transport and the route is not direct and you have to use various modes of "integrated" public transport, the cost becomes huge. e.g. a trip that requires bus and luas becomes very expensive very quickly - annual Bus and LUAS tickets are very expensive, particularly if your route require one bus and one luas trip each way every day.

An annual Dublin public transport card covering all modes of public transport would be great, and could be cheaper.

The overall point I was making is that the quays project is not happening in isolation -- public transport improvements are being made and further ones are planned.

cgcsb

athtrasna wrote: »

Buses and trains are a disaster and have gotten so bloody expensive lately.

That's a fairly broad brush stroke in fairness. although Public transport in Dublin is messy compared the rest of western Europe, it's still very much usable and affordable compared to private vehicle.

cgcsb

Uriel. wrote: »

One of the major difficulties I still find in the city is that public transport finishes so early. Last buses out of the city on most routes is about 11:30. It's such a pain in the neck. It doesn't cater for people who work late, who like to go and enjoy the city after work. I think these kind of things need to be sorted in tandem.

I've got nothing against improving cycling facilities though, i just feel that there are other policy issues that must also be addressed.

The only thing (don't see the cycle lane plan (is it produced yet?)) is if you are in a segregated cycle lane running the length of the quays - presumably you will need to cut across the other two lands of traffic at various points to reach turn offs. How will that be handled? I imagine, if not correctly managed could be dangerous for cyclists and frustrating for all trying to cut across two lanes of heavy traffic.

Agree some routes are packed after 11pm as people scramble to get the last buses. DB should see this as demand for some later services.

cgcsb

monument wrote: »

You talked about people who work late. Exactly how many people start work at the morning rush hour and work until after 11pm? We can't be planning our streets and transport systems around such a low amount of people.

In fairness he does have a point on some of the arterial routes, 39a, 25a/b/ etc. which are packed late at night....not relevant to this thread though.

cgcsb

Riskymove wrote: »

what happens at these pinch points then

there is a strectch currently where there are only two lanes - 1 bus lane (peak hours) and one private lane....where will the cycle lane fit in?

the car traffic lane will be re routed around the block.