Brewery quarter not required

draiochtanois

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Milly33

Yep completely agree well nearly. Think they should put something in the show grounds it is mad that they have the land wasted there. It is the perfect spot lots of different ways to enter and exit, people don't have to go into the city to add to traffic yet are a walk away from it.. Loads of space, perfect.. Then they should think about putting a nice camping or mobile home spot as lots of people ask about it during marquee time so twud be usefull

Knasher

If they want it to be a convention centre, then ideally it needs to be within walking distance of a number of hotels. I don't know if it would be successful, but if it was out near Páirc Uí Chaoimh, then really it is only aimed towards one day events and people with cars.

Bacchus

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057061672

Milly33

sure town is only a few mins away, taxi would only cost a few euro if needed.. And I know it is a big ask but maybe they may even run a bus there, big ask of them I know but it is such a better area for it

KCAccidental

the state of the marina during matches in Pairc Ui Caoimh shows that if people have to travel outside the city centre, they will drive.

It's more likely people would be attracted to taking public transport to an event if it is near where every bus route operates. Much easier for someone to hop on one bus to the venue rather than two buses or a taxi.

draiochtanois

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kellogscoffey

Not sure is the docks proposal even in contention anymore. My understanding had been it was down to either brewery quarter or the one on Alberts Quay, and that consultants were drawing up the merits and drawbacks of both, for city council to decide.

Of course, I could be wrong. It happened once before.

AugustusMinimus

draiochtanois wrote: »

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The old railway line is now a walk/cycle path. There would be utter uproar if this was replaced with light rail.

Balmed Out

I completely disagree I think its an excellent location for it. This is Cork not a major metropolis. Our public transport infrastructure delivers people in and out of the city centre. An events venue holding 6000 people should only be built within the city centre and will have a massive knock on benefit to city centre pubs, restaurants, shops etc. Placing it anywhere else would cause congestion and disturbances to residents and would necessitate extra investment in transport which we cant afford and would be a waste.


Going to an event or a gig or whatever is much more pleasant when mixed with a night out etc instead of dumping people a half hour away which would be a sure way to ensure it fails.

Milly33

The people who go to the matches im sorry but they park like muppets around the place don't know how they get away with it.. And if there was an advents centre down there, there is actually plenty of parking it is not opened all the time, There is loads in the show grounds. then the marquee site is more again and the spot next to it

Balmed Out

Milly33 wrote: »

The people who go to the matches im sorry but they park like muppets around the place don't know how they get away with it.. And if there was an advents centre down there, there is actually plenty of parking it is not opened all the time, There is loads in the show grounds. then the marquee site is more again and the spot next to it

The marquee is at night so it doesn't cause such a problem, think of when the city sports was on that was worse then most matches. An events centre would have conferences during the day as well as night time entertainment. Parking is one thing but the whole area chokes when something is on there during the day from the well road to mahon point.

Doesn't change from the fact that most concert goers would be more likely to enjoy a night out or a meal and most day time event goers the same if it were in the city centre rather then Blackrock.

It makes far better sense from a transport viewpoint, the users viewpoint and for residents of cork city.

The city center needs something like this to breath a bit of fresh air into it. It could become a massive success as an entertainment venue and provide an impetus for the urban renewal of the entire area. Stuck out in Blackrock I can see it becoming something of a white elephant that doesn't enhance the area or Cork as a whole.

As for creating a super park I fail to see how that would work without knocking the Mercy and a whole lot of other buildings and its not even needed.

KCAccidental

another point to make is that the brewery quarter is more than just a venue. It will have a cinema and other things. I think it will really open out the city centre and revitalise the south main st washington st area, which is pretty shabby at the moment with all the fast food restaurants.

Milly33

I get yes it might be nice to improve town a bit, but those areas seem a bit of a waste.. If you think blackrock gets jammed up with the sports day then what do u think town will be like... They should revamp the old Cineplex maybe again lots of ways to get in and out and on the main street.

draiochtanois

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KCAccidental

Milly33 wrote: »

I get yes it might be nice to improve town a bit, but those areas seem a bit of a waste.. If you think blackrock gets jammed up with the sports day then what do u think town will be like... They should revamp the old Cineplex maybe again lots of ways to get in and out and on the main street.

the difference is that every single bus from the suburbs will stop within 5 minute walking distance of the venue, so people wont have any excuse to drive in to the show etc.

Cineplex is unfortunately tied up in nama. I'd love to see that place turned into a pavillion type venue and club. Think it would be perfect.

Milly33

yep yep don't build anymore!!! Use what is there

Milly33

Darn Nama

draiochtanois

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Thepikapi

What cork really needs is to make a drastic change, that's the only real way the city is going to change for the better. A lot of other cities like London, Barcelona and Brussels were blessed with planning and amazing infrastructure, for cork to grow these "dream big" ideas are very important, that's how many cities rise from ashes and become huge great metropolises (I.e. Bilbao in Spain was a mining city, but now is a modern and artistic spot).We (as in the Irish) have a naturally defeatist attitude, and I believe that cork needs to move away from its poor, colonist past and become the city that it's people deserve, so let's give these super parks, light rail systems and urban areas a chance.

Balmed Out

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Why is it required? We already have Fitzgeralds park with the mardyke and lee fields, the lough, the glen park, the railway lines, cloverhill,the curaheen one and im sure plenty more besides within the city. Wed all like more of everything but you have to pick on something. An event centre wouldnt cost anywhere near what buying and demolishing buildings to join up this area to Fitzgeralds park.

How could anyone feel cork city centre requires more parkland over a proper gig / conference centre along with I believe a museum for the old main brewery building. Cork has long been lacking a tourist draw bang in the city centre as well as a conference / gig center.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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Do you really believe that ? From my own personal experience im of the viewpoint that more traffic enters westbound on the ring then towards the tunnel and much of the east bound traffic is heading away from the city anyhow.
It would help undoubtedly but ballinlough to mahon is a peninsula and will always be prone to heavy traffic if large scale development continues.

draiochtanois wrote: »

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What idle buildings are there that are big enough for a 6000 seater event centre in the city centre? I can only think of one and that's Beamish.

The event center would be a draw to the city and the museum a fantastic tourist attraction a park would do neither.

Red Nissan

Milly33 wrote: »

sure town is only a few mins away, taxi would only cost a few euro if needed.. And I know it is a big ask but maybe they may even run a bus there, big ask of them I know but it is such a better area for it

People won't go. simples.

As example the Silver Springs annual car view convention attracting thousands and thousands and the entire hotel is taken over by the convention, so what little parking it had is now an exhibition so nowhere for the punter to go.

The punters caused mayhem parking around the hotel they argued with security and Gardaí alike. The Gardaí responded by a massive towing campaign and a free flow clampdown.

The organizers responded with a free bus from the railway car park [no free parking as far as I know but a free bus from there] the convention closed due to declining attendances !!!!!

BUNK1982

Thepikapi wrote: »

What cork really needs is to make a drastic change, that's the only real way the city is going to change for the better. A lot of other cities like London, Barcelona and Brussels were blessed with planning and amazing infrastructure, for cork to grow these "dream big" ideas are very important, that's how many cities rise from ashes and become huge great metropolises (I.e. Bilbao in Spain was a mining city, but now is a modern and artistic spot).We (as in the Irish) have a naturally defeatist attitude, and I believe that cork needs to move away from its poor, colonist past and become the city that it's people deserve, so let's give these super parks, light rail systems and urban areas a chance.

I like your thinking.

I also think that no matter where you build anything in Cork - traffic is going to be a problem and the city should look to pull as much development as possible closer to the centre.

The Brewery Quarter development would give the city a proper cultural/ social hub and could kick start a regeneration of Barrack Street, Proby's Quay, Friars Walk etc. There's so much up around that area like the cathedral, those old red brick houses, the wall by the Garda station.

Expanding the English Market into the Capitol and opening it late on Thurs/ Fri/ Sat is a good idea.

AugustusMinimus

IMO, I still think putting the Centre on Albert Quay would be a disaster.

An absolute disaster from a traffic point of view (would be beside the most important North-South traffic artery through the city centre).

It would also be in the middle of the business district. I would guess that this building would be used mainly for entertainment events. In that case it should be close to bars and restaurants.

Joined up thinking is the last thing Cork City Council indulge in. Expect Albert Quay to be chosen and recriminations for 20 years after.

dwiseman

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AugustusMinimus wrote: »

IMO, I still think putting the Centre on Albert Quay would be a disaster.

An absolute disaster from a traffic point of view (would be beside the most important North-South traffic artery through the city centre).

It would also be in the middle of the business district. I would guess that this building would be used mainly for entertainment events. In that case it should be close to bars and restaurants.

Joined up thinking is the last thing Cork City Council indulge in. Expect Albert Quay to be chosen and recriminations for 20 years after.

It's 5 minute walk to the city centre, 2 minutes form the clarion and jurys inn for accomodation, 5 minutes from the bus station, 10 to the train station. Easy access to the south link. Within 100 metres from Golbergs bar, The idle hour and the sextant. Numerous sites within 800 metres on centre park road to create ample parking for patrons. It is the most suitable site in the county, a real no brainer.

Balmed Out

dwiseman wrote: »

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It's 5 minute walk to the city centre, 2 minutes form the clarion and jurys inn for accomodation, 5 minutes from the bus station, 10 to the train station. Easy access to the south link. Within 100 metres from Golbergs bar, The idle hour and the sextant. Numerous sites within 800 metres on centre park road to create ample parking for patrons. It is the most suitable site in the county, a real no brainer.

Disagree I think having it in the heart of the city in the Brewery complex is way more suitable.

dwiseman

Balmed Out wrote: »

Disagree I think having it in the heart of the city in the Brewery complex is way more suitable.

and get people to park by the marina and walk in? add more traffic to an already congested city centre by having them park in city centre car parks? It's in the hand of the city hall but hopefully they will see sense.

phatmanwc

dwiseman wrote: »

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It's 5 minute walk to the city centre, 2 minutes form the clarion and jurys inn for accomodation, 5 minutes from the bus station, 10 to the train station. Easy access to the south link. Within 100 metres from Golbergs bar, The idle hour and the sextant. Numerous sites within 800 metres on centre park road to create ample parking for patrons. It is the most suitable site in the county, a real no brainer.

I agree, most of the arguments against the Albert Quay site seem to be somewhat flawed. Not that I'm against the Brewery Quarter site (in fact, I would love to see it go ahead in some form, although I'm aware this may be contingent on the success of the Event Centre bid) but from an access/logistical point of view, Albert Quay is preferable, and is still extremely central in the greater scheme of things.

dwiseman

phatmanwc wrote: »

I agree, most of the arguments against the Albert Quay site seem to be somewhat flawed. Not that I'm against the Brewery Quarter site (in fact, I would love to see it go ahead in some form, although I'm aware this may be contingent on the success of the Event Centre bid) but from an access/logistical point of view, Albert Quay is preferable, and is still extremely central in the greater scheme of things.

The Beamish site with its history and architectural heritage would be excellent as a centre for arts/crafts/museum things in that vein, making it an attraction to tourists 365 days a year and increasing visitor numbers to the city centre.

BUNK1982

dwiseman wrote: »

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It's 5 minute walk to the city centre, 2 minutes form the clarion and jurys inn for accomodation, 5 minutes from the bus station, 10 to the train station. Easy access to the south link. Within 100 metres from Golbergs bar, The idle hour and the sextant. Numerous sites within 800 metres on centre park road to create ample parking for patrons. It is the most suitable site in the county, a real no brainer.

It seems like a no brainer which is why the council will probably opt for it - no brains.

The Beamish site is already in the city centre.

Albert Quay is a great location for many different types of development but a 5,000 capacity events centre is not one of them. Drop that in there and all the arguments around traffic and accessibility will be moot.

Cork City and the city centre in particular is not built for cars - we can either accept that or keep trying to shoe horn developments into areas we think suit cars which in turn actualluy cause more congestion. The end result will be a donut shaped city full of Mahon Point type developments with no real character left.

Balmed Out

dwiseman wrote: »

and get people to park by the marina and walk in? add more traffic to an already congested city centre by having them park in city centre car parks? It's in the hand of the city hall but hopefully they will see sense.

Concerts happen at night. Theres no city centre congestion then. Most will use public transport or be staying in a city centre hotel. Putting it outside the heart of the city would result in far more car journeys.
Yes large conferences would affect day time traffic but again for large conferences most will stay in a city center hotel so they will be driving in there anyhow