Brazil vs Mexico - 8pm (BBC1 & RTE2)

Panthro

Liverpool4cup wrote: »

fml

I Find Myself Laughing too!

CountyHurler

TimeToShine wrote: »

Haha Eamon and Kenny are at each others throats all night and it's great!

Yeah they really seem to dislike each other.... Is Kenny a friend of Noel King's or something.. And they both seem to ignore Didi... It's all very awkward...

breffni bogballer

rte panel beat me to it, spain/holland will destroy this brazilian team

Ferris_Bueller

Disappointing from Brazil, thought they would have improved from their first game v Croatia but not at all. Fred is an obvious weakness, but would question if Jo is any better. For me though the biggest issue is that every single one of their attacks seem to come from wide positions, it seems very predictable, Gustavo and Paulinho offer virtually nothing at all going forward, and in games such as tonight I think you have to question why both of them are on the pitch at the one time.

Gustavo does the job of dropping deep between the centre halves while the fullbacks push on, and he also allows for David Luiz and Thiago Silva to play out from the back a little bit, but I have been watching Paulinho closely now in both games and I honestly cannot see what he offers the team. He doesn't look to get on the ball, doesn't play any penetrative passes, he has been a complete passenger in both games so far IMO and they would be much better off with someone else in there, whether it's Ramires, Fernandinho or Hernanes. Their over reliance on Neymar and to a lesser extent Oscar is incredible, after these two Alves and Marcelo are their next two biggest threats going forward (don't rate Hulk), but it has become so predictable that every time they come out from the back it will go through one of these fullbacks. Rooting for Brazil in this world cup, but have not been impressed so far, in particularly tonight, just hope they change it up a bit and give this a real go, because if they don't I can see them getting knocked out as soon as they come up against decent opposition.

titan18

Pretty sure they could put me out there instead of Fred and I'd do no worse. He should be made show his birth cert just to prove he's Brazilian.

They should play Neymar or Willian as furthest forward with Oscar, Hernanes and the other in behind them, and Fernandinho instead of Paulinho. Would be a much more fluid side

sky88

Barely There wrote: »

The gall of Henry on BBC1, condemning cheating .

If Robbie keane we would not have cared about the handball people need to move on and every pundit ex footballer contradicts themselves when talking

Loafing Oaf

Finish the sentence Eamon: Neymar has the capacity to take responsibility...even when he's fcuking dreading it.

Too Tough To Die

titan18 wrote: »

Pretty sure they could put me out there instead of Fred and I'd do no worse. He should be made show his birth cert just to prove he's Brazilian.

They should play Neymar or Willian as furthest forward with Oscar, Hernanes and the other in behind them, and Fernandinho instead of Paulinho. Would be a much more fluid side

You should've said 'i'd yabba dabba do no worse'. That would've been great.

scrummonkey

I feel sorry for Neymar, born too late, would not be out of place in Brazil 1982 team. An artist surrounded by "plasterers". The samba days are indeed over.........

RGM

tayto lover wrote: »

Mexico are a very hard-working and honest team.
I hope they go far in this.
Very impressed with their work-rate.

The difference between this Mexican team and the one that actually lost a must-win game at the end of qualifying is almost unbelievable. The US, who had already qualified and surely didn't care as much, had to score a stoppage time winner in their match to take out Panama and save Mexico.

Mexico then basically took the coach and half the lineup of their best domestic team to beat New Zealand in the playoff to make it to Brazil. Three players who started vs. New Zealand aren't even in the squad in Brazil.

I'm extremely impressed that Mexico have found themselves. They looked very good against Cameroon and despite the reliance on the keeper, showed well vs. Brazil. They may be our rivals in the US, but a lot of Americans are rooting for them in confederation solidarity.

Talib Fiasco

It adds even more salt to the wounds that is the story of Adriano seeing a guy like Fred up top as a target man...if Adriano had kept it together years back this could have been his last swan song for Brazil.

Schwiiing

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

It adds even more salt to the wounds that is the story of Adriano seeing a guy like Fred up top as a target man...if Adriano had kept it together years back this could have been his last swan song for Brazil.

In fairness Adriano would still be the target man for a piss poor Brazil side. Although he did have the ability to create something out of nothing. Unlike any of this Brazil side bar Neymar.

the incredible pudding

People are writing off teams waaay too quickly.

Talib Fiasco

Schwiiing wrote: »

In fairness Adriano would still be the target man for a piss poor Brazil side. Although he did have the ability to create something out of nothing. Unlike any of this Brazil side bar Neymar.

Yep. It's clear there are bigger issues but if Neymar had in his company one or two more players with that uncanny ability to create something out of nothing it could go a long way for this Brazil team. That's why I find it ridiculous that Kaka wasn't brought. Even Ronaldinho would do a better job in a deeper lying playmaker role, similar to Pirlo in a way, than some of those squad members...

Idbatterim

Dunphy was bang on, I can totally understand why bookies hae them as favourites, for the hype and because they now they don't stand a chance of winning it! I got Germany at 6.5 to 1 yesterday, what a fu*cking joke!

Lostman1990

Brazil will be out in the last-16 stage....

trashcan

murpho999 wrote: »

Sad as I realise I'll never see a Brazil side like 1982 again.
.

Amazes me when people make such absolute statements. How do you know this ?It's like Eamo saying the game in Brazil is dead. I've heard him make these kind of statements before. The game goes in cycles I think. There's nothing to say Brazil won't produce an outstanding crop of players again, say within the next 5-10 years. Unless you've a crystal ball handy you don't know that won't happen.

Ulysses Gaze

Kaka, Diego Ribas or Ronaldino would make a difference in this Brazil squad.

I would have also brought Filipe Luis and Miranda from Atletico Madrid.

And surely Pato would have been a better, more mobile forward option than Fred or Jo.

Nuri Sahin

Coutinho should definitely be in the squad too.

But again, Scolari is ridiculous loyal to 'his' players. Bernard being perfect example of this. Poor to average season at Shakhtar, but was a cert for the World Cup squad. Paulinho is another one.

Talib Fiasco

Lucas from PSG is another one...completely shocked not to see him there

mike65

Brazil could have tried the no striker approach of Germany - drop Fred and add Firmino except he never even got in the 23.

Would this work?

---

Lucas

---

Willian--Fernandino
--Oscar---Firmino--Neymar

Nuri Sahin

Lucas shouldn't be in the team.

Willian as a CM/AM makes little sense, especially when throwing Oscar wide right..

Firmino is definitely another one who should be in the squad, maybe Douglas Costa too.

Talib Fiasco

mike65 wrote: »

Brazil could have tried the no striker approach of Germany - drop Fred and add Firmino except he never even got in the 23.

Would this work?

---

Lucas

---

Willian--Fernandino
--Oscar---Firmino--Neymar

Firmino had a great season but you couldn't risk him at the WC...Lucas is a laughable inclusion tbh. So many better players in his area in the squad...

This is how I'd have it:

---

Fernandinho--Hernanes
---Willian---Oscar---Neymar

---

Hulk

theoneeyedman

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Firmino had a great season but you couldn't risk him at the WC...Lucas is a laughable inclusion tbh. So many better players in his area in the squad...

This is how I'd have it:

---

Fernandinho--Hernanes
---Willian---Oscar---Neymar

---

Hulk

Serves them right not playing the star of the opening game, yer man Referinho.

GreNoLi

Hulk has many of the attributes required to be a number 9, odd that he gets shunted out wide.

Talib Fiasco

GreNoLi wrote: »

Hulk has many of the attributes required to be a number 9, odd that he gets shunted out wide.

Always thought that myself...besides having a poor weaker foot he's got all the abilities for up top. Played there for Porto too

Nuri Sahin

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Firmino had a great season but you couldn't risk him at the WC...Lucas is a laughable inclusion tbh. So many better players in his area in the squad...

This is how I'd have it:

---

Fernandinho--Hernanes
---Willian---Oscar---Neymar

---

Hulk

Why not? He was consistently brilliant, from start to finish in the Bundesliga this season. Should have had his chance a couple of times considering the amount of friendlies Brazil played.

Nuri Sahin

GreNoLi wrote: »

Hulk has many of the attributes required to be a number 9, odd that he gets shunted out wide.

Lack of a brain goes against that, hence why he's thrown out wide.

Talib Fiasco

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Why not? He was consistently brilliant, from start to finish in the Bundesliga this season. Should have had his chance a couple of times considering the amount of friendlies Brazil played.

Yeah but he never got those chances did he...had he a few caps under his belt it'd be a different story...he's definitely better potential than some squad members but he's untried at international level and therefore wouldn't be a wise move...

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Lack of a brain goes against that, hence why he's thrown out wide.

And hence why Fred is put there instead of him??

Nuri Sahin

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Yeah but he never got those chances did he...had he a few caps under his belt it'd be a different story...he's definitely better potential than some squad members but he's untried at international level and therefore wouldn't be a wise move...

A more open minded coach wouldn't have been overly fazed by that, but sure, a more open minded coach would have given him a chance before the World Cup. I'd have have Coutinho and Firmino ahead of Oscar and Bernard based on the previous season. Both are versatile to play out wide or centrally, and in Firmino's case, he is capable of leading the line as he's shown on few occasions with Hoffenheim this past season.

And hence why Fred is put there instead of him??

Neither Fred or Hulk should start simply put. Hulk would be a bench player at best and Fred should be nowhere near the international set up.

Ardillaun

Brazil have been disappointing so far, not as energized as the host team should be. Oscar disappeared tonight for the first 60 minutes. At least Marcelo had a better game, with several excellent runs. Hopefully, the forwards will gel as they get used to each other again - at the moment, there seems to be little understanding between them.

Mexico are exceeding my expectations. On this form, esp. Ochoa's, they'll have a chance of making it to penalties against anybody, and winning there. The centre halves were excellent in the air. Hernandez looked lively when he same on.

It would be nice if the OP could do a short write-up on the game ahead for the benefit of us numbskulls who don't know much about soccer.

pickarooney

Has anyone a club breakdown of the Brazil squad? It's weird to see players from Russian and German leagues playing in yellow. They used to be the cream of La Liga and Serie A when those leagues were the world's best, but now we see these guys on Premier League benches and in UEFA cup qualifiers and there's no mystique left.

HalloweenJack

pickarooney wrote: »

Has anyone a club breakdown of the Brazil squad? It's weird to see players from Russian and German leagues playing in yellow. They used to be the cream of La Liga and Serie A when those leagues were the world's best, but now we see these guys on Premier League benches and in UEFA cup qualifiers and there's no mystique left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_World_Cup_squads#Brazil

More EPL players than any other league (six), four from Brazil, three each from Spain and Italy, two each from France and Germany, one each from Russia, Ukraine and Canada/MLS.

King Bernard

pickarooney wrote: »

Has anyone a club breakdown of the Brazil squad? It's weird to see players from Russian and German leagues playing in yellow. They used to be the cream of La Liga and Serie A when those leagues were the world's best, but now we see these guys on Premier League benches and in UEFA cup qualifiers and there's no mystique left.

It wasn't much different im 2010 and 2006 really .

pickarooney

They were already fairly **** in 2010, if memory serves, although I've thankfully forgotten most of that travesty of a tournament.

HalloweenJack

2010: Eight from Italy, four from Spain, three from Brazil, two each from Portugal and Germany, one each from France, England, Greece and Turkey.

2006: Six from Italy, five from Spain, four from Germany, three each from Brazil and France, one each from England and Portugal.

Their side that won in 2002 had 12 players from Brazil, four from Italy, three from Germany, two from France and one from England.

pickarooney

Anyone else think Thiago Silva looks like Simon Amstell with a tan?

rob316

Ridiculous that Coutinho and Firmino weren't included when dross like Paulinho were. Coutinho absolutely loves the big games too and consistently shined for Liverpool.

Why the hell isn't Fernandinho starting either?

Surely they have better strikers than Fred, Joe and Hulk? I would have had Pato ahead of any of them.

eagle eye

rob316 wrote: »

Ridiculous that Coutinho and Firmino weren't included when dross like Paulinho were. Coutinho absolutely loves the big games too and consistently shined for Liverpool.

Why the hell isn't Fernandinho starting either?

Surely they have better strikers than Fred, Joe and Hulk? I would have had Pato ahead of any of them.

Countinho wouldn't be in competition with Paulinho for a spot in the squad. He would be up against Hernanes, William, Oscar and Bernard for inclusion and I don't think he deserves to be in ahead of any of them right now.

I think I'd rather Fernandinho to Paulinho though. And if you are dropping a box to box type for a more attacking midfielder then surely Lucas Moura would be the one that should have been picked.

Bacchus

the incredible pudding wrote: »

People are writing off teams waaay too quickly.

The most games any team can play in this competition is 7. There is limited time to "get your act together" and in Brazil's opening 2 games they've shown nothing that suggests they will be real contenders. Their win was given a big helping hand by the ref and played out a dull draw against Mexico.

If they get Holland in the next round, they will go out. Spain or Chile... 50/50. We've yet to see how Spain react to the opening defeat.

If they get to the Quarters, you've got Italy, England & Uraguay in the mix. Arguably easier opponents that Spain or Holland.

As the second round progresses we'll have a better idea of who's who in this tournament. So far, Brazil have not set the bar very high.

eagle eye

Bacchus wrote: »

The most games any team can play in this competition is 7. There is limited time to "get your act together" and in Brazil's opening 2 games they've shown nothing that suggests they will be real contenders. Their win was given a big helping hand by the ref and played out a dull draw against Mexico.

If they get Holland in the next round, they will go out. Spain or Chile... 50/50. We've yet to see how Spain react to the opening defeat.

If they get to the Quarters, you've got Italy, England & Uraguay in the mix. Arguably easier opponents that Spain or Holland.

As the second round progresses we'll have a better idea of who's who in this tournament. So far, Brazil have not set the bar very high.

Holland are being overrated based on one performance. Chile are being overrated based on one performance.
If you are going to say that Spain against Brazil is 50/50 then you are disagreeing with yourself as regards having to make assumptions early on because Spain were dreadful in the only game we seen them in so far.

jmayo

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Kaka, Diego Ribas or Ronaldino would make a difference in this Brazil squad.

I would have also brought Filipe Luis and Miranda from Atletico Madrid.

And surely Pato would have been a better, more mobile forward option than Fred or Jo.

You have to wonder what happens to some managers when they get on.
Scolari is beginning to remind me of old Trap.
He is persisting with guys who really are nowhere near the races and ignoring others.

I would bet all the old great Brazillian forwards of the past must be cringing seeing who is playing, or rather not playing at all, in their old position.

If Scolari hadn't fallen out with Romario years ago he might have been better off coaxing him back for another comeback than giving a place to Fred.

I do have to thank Fred (and Shearer on BBC at half time) for providing me without enough examples last night to help teach a 6 year old the offisde trap.

Nuri Sahin

I'm astonished people are saying the likes of Coutinho and Firmino didn't deserve a place in the squad, but in turn Oscar and Bernard deserved their place.

Bacchus

eagle eye wrote: »

Holland are being overrated based on one performance. Chile are being overrated based on one performance.
If you are going to say that Spain against Brazil is 50/50 then you are disagreeing with yourself as regards having to make assumptions early on because Spain were dreadful in the only game we seen them in so far.

No I was saying we've yet to see other teams play their second game but Brazil have not set a high standard. I said in the post you quoted that I considered Spain and Chile 50/50 against Brazil, that's because I've not seen enough of them to write them off or throw plaudits at them. I've seen enough of Brazil though to see that they don't have what it takes to win the World Cup. I know teams can improve as the competition goes on but Brazil just don't play like serious contenders. I've been more impressed with Australia than Brazil.

As for Holland, they've been a strong team in recent years and started this competition superbly. They then showed great resolved in their second game to come back against a hugely underrated Australian side.

Spain are looking dreadful again. Brazil would beat them. Looks like Brazil will meet Chile though. That will be a close game.

Ardillaun

In one-off matches chance plays a massive role, even more so in a sport where there may be only one or two goals. One thing some North American sports get right is the seven match series.