Anxiety and/or depression discussion.

greenfrogs

Roquentin wrote: »

im not trying to be rude, but cant go into these situations trying to make friends because you wont make any. its the same as a bloke who goes into a date trying to impress a woman and ends up not impressing her. the reason being because he consciously distracts his unconscious mind from working

i see the same mechanism played out in a job interviews. a man or woman approaches the situation in that he or she will try to impress retrospective employers. they try so hard to impress them that they end up not impressing them. the more one consciously tries to chase success, the more they it eludes them.

so in your case, you dont go out to make new friends or to have a good time. you just go out and expect nothing. through doing this you relax and it becomes easier for people to socialize with.

its a paradox of hedonism. the more you try to plan the moment, the less you enjoy it because success/happiness is often unconscious. one cannot consciously say they will now be happy at a given moment. i cant sit here and say i will be happy for the next two hours. This is what people invariably do. they i will be happy for the duration of this event and thus psychologically distract themselves from performing.

you have to sort of go into situations not expecting much. this in turn enables your unconscious to operate properly.

I agree and disagree with you. Of course you can't go into situations and expect instant friendships. However you can't go into situations and expect people to make the effort with you. I'm annoyed that I sat back and didn't interact well with a few people. However I suppose I just have to expect that some people will get along better than others. In fact it didn't go well because I used my safety behaviours which I use to help me in social situations. However these behaviours isolate me more. It's great to know theory however real life experience is the way to go.

Roquentin

Hugo Stiglitz wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from R and it does kinda make sense. It can be hard to actually do though. I'd personally have trouble doing it, like it would seem to go against how the active mind would work.

growing up in a western environment we are thought to be a certain way through childhood. so if one is thought to think a certain way, they can reprogram their unconscious mind to think a different way. this is what psychologists generally try to do, recode your mind.

Roquentin

greenfrogs wrote: »

I agree and disagree with you. Of course you can't go into situations and expect instant friendships. However you can't go into situations and expect people to make the effort with you. I'm annoyed that I sat back and didn't interact well with a few people. However I suppose I just have to expect that some people will get along better than others. In fact it didn't go well because I used my safety behaviours which I use to help me in social situations. However these behaviours isolate me more. It's great to know theory however real life experience is the way to go.

dont treat it as a game wherein you have to "interact well" with people.

of course you wont make everyone happy, but that doesnt matter as long as you are happy with yourself.

mg1982

I think it takes years to build up a real relationship with someone. I find these days its harder and harder to make friends probably because people are generally less social than they were 20 years ago with the advent of the internet and so on. But my problem is is that i find i cant connect with people, i seem to be on a different wave length a lot of the time, and because i find being around people such hard work when it should be pleasurable.

greenfrogs

Roquentin wrote: »

dont treat it as a game wherein you have to "interact well" with people.

of course you wont make everyone happy, but that doesnt matter as long as you are happy with yourself.

You're right. I just have to be happy with myself. My therapist says it's about talking the focus of yourself and focus on the external rather than the internal.

What's annoying is that very little happened. We were at training and were focused on defensive skills and I fell as I was off balance. Others fell after me. I wasn't the only one. Yet one of the girls congratulated the girl who knocked me. It was the aim to knock the other person. Then I'm thinking they don't like me, they talk crap about me etc. Very negative thoughts on something so stupid.

mg1982

greenfrogs wrote: »

You're right. I just have to be happy with myself. My therapist says it's about talking the focus of yourself and focus on the external rather than the internal.

What's annoying is that very little happened. We were at training and were focused on defensive skills and I fell as I was off balance. Others fell after me. I wasn't the only one. Yet one of the girls congratulated the girl who knocked me. It was the aim to knock the other person. Then I'm thinking they don't like me, they talk crap about me etc. Very negative thoughts on something so stupid.

I can defintely relate to that GF. The smallest thing can trigger those thoughts. Its part and parcel of social anxiety or depression.

Roquentin

greenfrogs wrote: »

You're right. I just have to be happy with myself. My therapist says it's about talking the focus of yourself and focus on the external rather than the internal.

What's annoying is that very little happened. We were at training and were focused on defensive skills and I fell as I was off balance. Others fell after me. I wasn't the only one. Yet one of the girls congratulated the girl who knocked me. It was the aim to knock the other person. Then I'm thinking they don't like me, they talk crap about me etc. Very negative thoughts on something so stupid.

ah yea i wouldnt worry about that. its the herd mentality. people generally talk **** about other people. i remember in college one group was talking about another group and then the other group was talking about the initial group.

as long as you are not serial killer or sex offender i wouldnt take notice.:)

Roquentin

mg1982 wrote: »

I can defintely relate to that GF. The smallest thing can trigger those thoughts. Its part and parcel of social anxiety or depression.

you cant make everyone happy. its impossible. people by default are irrational and unpredictable. what you can do is limit the number of people you know.

i used see this with my parents. theyd go out for a meal with another couple and come home and talk about them. maybe not in a bad manner, but you know talk.

humans can speak and so they invariably talk about what they see. its impossible to avoid unless go to live in a cave. for instance when i meet someone on the street i know hes gonna go back to his buddies saying he met me and the usual stuff. but i do the same to him with my friends

mg1982

Roquentin wrote: »

you cant make everyone happy. its impossible. people by default are irrational and unpredictable. what you can do is limit the number of people you know.

i used see this with my parents. theyd go out for a meal with another couple and come home and talk about them. maybe not in a bad manner, but you know talk.

humans can speak and so they invariably talk about what they see. its impossible to avoid unless go to live in a cave. for instance when i meet someone on the street i know hes gonna go back to his buddies saying he met me and the usual stuff. but i do the same to him with my friends

I think its especially a thing in ireland. People like to talk or gossip about people.

Roquentin

mg1982 wrote: »

I think its especially a thing in ireland. People like to talk or gossip about people.

people instinctively try to placate the herd and one way of gaining induction into the herd is to gossip. it builds up rapport between people and that is why they do it. and then 90% of jobs involve teams, so people just gravitate towards it i guess.

scrimshanker

ho hum. GP doesn't know what to do.

greenfrogs

mg1982 wrote: »

I can defintely relate to that GF. The smallest thing can trigger those thoughts. Its part and parcel of social anxiety or depression.

Yah it's the smallest thing that triggers these thoughts. Its quite debilitating. How can I hold down a job if these small things though me off the track. I suppose it's part of a learning curve. Must learn to ignore idiots.

Hugo Stiglitz

scrimshanker wrote: »

ho hum. GP doesn't know what to do.

Hey Scrim,

What's happening there?

What did your GP say?

Hugo Stiglitz

Roquentin wrote: »

growing up in a western environment we are thought to be a certain way through childhood. so if one is thought to think a certain way, they can reprogram their unconscious mind to think a different way. this is what psychologists generally try to do, recode your mind.

What if one's mind is too scrambled to be recoded?

Roquentin

Hugo Stiglitz wrote: »

What if one's mind is too scrambled to be recoded?

then your ****ed:pac:

Hugo Stiglitz

Roquentin wrote: »

then your ****ed:pac:

Cold as ice!

greenfrogs

Hugo Stiglitz wrote: »

What if one's mind is too scrambled to be recoded?

No one is beyond help. To be honest it's just a different way of saying I'm not bothered.

Hugo Stiglitz

greenfrogs wrote: »

No one is beyond help. To be honest it's just a different way of saying I'm not bothered.

As in the person with the scrambled mind isn't bothered?

Roquentin

Hugo Stiglitz wrote: »

As in the person with the scrambled mind isn't bothered?

you have to work to change your mind. you are in effect training your unconscious to respond differently. your unconscious mind is governing your behavior. if you want to learn the piano you train yourself to become a master at it. your unconscious mind will learn through repetition where each key is etc.

now your unconscious response to an action (your reaction) is programmed a certain way. by training your unconscious to respond differently it then becomes reprogrammed.

it takes time and work, just as if you were learning to play the piano. but eventually your instinctive response will be a different way.

fr336

When people's anxiety is at its worst, do you feel like when one thing finishes another starts? Like your body is just angling to be made anxious. E.g. Hot body turns cold, one noise stops another starts, it's like a constant flurry of head noise across your mind and body? Sorry if I'm describing most experiences of anxiety here.

heyday30

mg1982 wrote: »

I think its especially a thing in ireland. People like to talk or gossip about people.

Great point. And I think if you can take this as they way it is it would be great.
People are going to talk gossip about you for sure. But it will be someone else tomorrow and someone else the next day ect....

Some people just plain won't like you, you won't like certain people either. Cest la vie.....

greenfrogs

Hugo Stiglitz wrote: »

As in the person with the scrambled mind isn't bothered?

Yah. Sometimes it's easier to do nothing rather than to try and get better. Like Roquentin says it takes work. By saying you think you are beyond help is a way of saying I am not even going to try. We all have scrambled minds. We all have had hard lives. I believe that most if not all of us here have had more than our fair share of troubles.

Hugo Stiglitz

greenfrogs wrote: »

Yah. Sometimes it's easier to do nothing rather than to try and get better. Like Roquentin says it takes work. By saying you think you are beyond help is a way of saying I am not even going to try. We all have scrambled minds. We all have had hard lives. I believe that most if not all of us here have had more than our fair share of troubles.

I don't doubt any of that.

I just feel that not being bothered was a bit black and white. Personally I don't think it is as clear cut as that.

Hugo Stiglitz

Roquentin wrote: »

you have to work to change your mind. you are in effect training your unconscious to respond differently. your unconscious mind is governing your behavior. if you want to learn the piano you train yourself to become a master at it. your unconscious mind will learn through repetition where each key is etc.

now your unconscious response to an action (your reaction) is programmed a certain way. by training your unconscious to respond differently it then becomes reprogrammed.

it takes time and work, just as if you were learning to play the piano. but eventually your instinctive response will be a different way.

I don't wanna play no piano! :pac:

greenfrogs

Hugo Stiglitz wrote: »

I don't doubt any of that.

I just feel that not being bothered was a bit black and white. Personally I don't think it is as clear cut as that.

I think if a person is in the mental health services for a significant period of time but still consider themself too far gone for help then something is not quite right there. Whether it be the person or the health care profession. I think it is totally a different situation for people who haven't seeked any help for any mental health issue or are in the early stages.

fr336

OK.

Hugo Stiglitz

greenfrogs wrote: »

I think if a person is in the mental health services for a significant period of time but still consider themself too far gone for help then something is not quite right there. Whether it be the person or the health care profession.

It can be very easy for someone to become disillusioned unfortunately, especially after some years.

Roquentin

its all hard work folks

"Dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price."

--Vince Lombardi

greenfrogs

Hugo Stiglitz wrote: »

It can be very easy for someone to become disillusioned unfortunately, especially after some years.

Understandable. However if that happened to a relative of mine I wouldn't be impressed. I am able to handle doctors etc quite well. I'm not shy about it. However I know others may be different. If you are not getting the help that you deserve. Or if you are handed medication without any provision of non pharmaceutical treatments then I don't agree with that. I would have my parents come with me if I thought I was being fobbed off. Of course we also have to be honest with doctors as well. If you arent then you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Roquentin

it took me about four years of psycho analysis to finally see the light. i had to look at what i was doing and why i was doing and then try to change it. now its not perfect by any means, i do have off days, but im much better than i was when i was a kid