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Council Housing Lists dissolved... No chance of council house. Mod Note in 1st post

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    #2
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    From what I can see its like this.

    Person 1 is using rent allowance and has a house this way, so they have been taken off the Council housing list.

    Person 2 lives at home may have certain reasons why they cant afford a house, they are on the council housing list.

    It will reduce the housing list but there will be outrage as people getting rent allowance could find themselves without a house if a LL decides they want them gone.


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    #3
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    so all those on rent allowance are off the list? For real.... what idiot thought that up?


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    #4
    Mr.McLovin
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Mr.McLovin


    so sleep rough to get a council house?


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    #5
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,902 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I'd suggest trying to find a more rational source for that assertion before assuming its true.


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    #6
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    If you've been on a waiting list for 15 years, how is it that you still need a house? Where have you been for those 15 years?


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    #7
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    No Pants wrote: »
    If you've been on a waiting list for 15 years, how is it that you still need a house? Where have you been for those 15 years?

    Rent allowance is my guess.


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    #8
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    Rent allowance is my guess.
    But in a house, yes?


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    #9
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,949 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Mr.McLovin wrote: »
    so sleep rough to get a council house?

    Either that or else get a mortgage and buy a house?


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    #10
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    No Pants wrote: »
    But in a house, yes?

    Obviously.....

    Thats not the point theres more security and long term planning in a council house.


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    #11
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    Obviously.....

    Thats not the point theres more security and long term planning in a council house.
    Still not seeing the issue. They have a house and someone else is paying for it.


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    #12
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    No Pants wrote: »
    Still not seeing the issue. They have a house and someone else is paying for it.

    You know you pay rent to the council? You also have a buyout option in the future. So you're happy for them to get free housing and not try better themselves? You also realise a LL can if he wants not renew a lease and they have to move.

    Security and long term planning out the window.......oh yeh they shouldnt complain.


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    #13
    carpejugulum
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭carpejugulum


    dharma200 wrote: »
    Can anyone explain this, does this mean there will not be a council list, those who have been waiting in hope for years are now not on a list and will never get housing??
    They are always welcome to get a job and pay for their own housing. You know, like people who pay taxes to fund welfare in the first place.


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    #14
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    carpejugulum wrote: »
    They are always welcome to get a job and pay for their own housing. You know, like people who pay taxes to fund welfare in the first place.

    What about a Mother with 3 kids who cant work or someone with a disability?


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    #15
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    You know you pay rent to the council? You also have a buyout option in the future. So you're happy for them to get free housing and not try better themselves? You also realise a LL can if he wants not renew a lease and they have to move.

    Security and long term planning out the window.......oh yeh they shouldnt complain.

    You pay feck all rent to the council compared to the market rate.

    The first thing they should do with council housing is remove the buyout option.....so much council housing has been purchased meaning more reliance on RA and private landlords.


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    #16
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    You pay feck all rent to the council compared to the market rate.

    The first thing they should do with council housing is remove the buyout option.....so much council housing has been purchased meaning more reliance on RA and private landlords.

    So instead of paying something you would have them pay nothing?


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    #17
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    What about a Mother with 3 kids who cant work or someone with a disability?
    After fifteen years her kids will be at least doing their Junior Cert. Maybe even their Leaving Cert. Are you telling me that in all that time, the mother cannot work or figure out how to look after herself and her family?

    Disabled people can work too you know. Plenty do.


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    #18
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    No Pants wrote: »
    After fifteen years her kids will be at least doing their Junior Cert. Maybe even their Leaving Cert. Are you telling me that in all that time, the mother cannot work or figure out how to look after herself and her family?

    15 years of unemployment are you telling me shes gonna walk into a job that pays well enough to afford rent/mortgage? At least let her pay the council whatever she can, get a ok job and buy the house in the future. What about someone with a bad disability who cant work should they stay on rent allowance? Its not just single Mothers.


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    #19
    dharma200
    Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    get a mortgage they said... get a mortgage.... lol..........


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    #20
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    So instead of paying something you would have them pay nothing?
    No. Rent allowance entitlements should also trend downwards over time and disappear entirely.


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    #21
    Arthur Beesley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Arthur Beesley


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Either that or else get a mortgage and buy a house?

    Or rent and pay your own way?


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    #22
    Iseedeadpixels
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭Iseedeadpixels


    No Pants wrote: »
    No. Rent allowance entitlements should also trend downwards over time and disappear entirely.

    Oh ok so a homeless crisis is better?


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    #23
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    This seems a bit strange, I only heard about this an hour ago myself. So does this mean every single person on the housing waiting list will be just told to feck-off ?


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    #24
    MouseTail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭MouseTail


    dharma200 wrote: »
    "In a statement, Richard Boyd Barrett TD, People Before Profit Alliance, has expressed outrage that with the passing of the Housing Miscellaneous Bill 2013 through the Dáil tonight, the government will begin the process of removing 96,000 families across the country from council housing lists ensuring they will never get a council house, despite being on housing waiting lists for up to 15 years."

    Can anyone explain this, does this mean there will not be a council list, those who have been waiting in hope for years are now not on a list and will never get housing?? Anyone any info on this.. cheers

    http://richardboydbarrett.ie/2014/06/17/passing-of-housing-bill-tonight-will-be-a-cruel-blow-to-96000-housing-applicants-as-housing-list-dissolved-and-social-housing-provision-privatised/
    Boyd Barrett would object to free money
    He is talking rubbish. There will be a more streamlined system, operated through Councils. With rent payments going to the Landlord, not tenant. Transfer lists will operate.


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    #25
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    Iseedeadpixels wrote: »
    So instead of paying something you would have them pay nothing?

    Where did I say that. I said that they pay feck all in rent compared to the market rate. They should be paying higher, or living in an area where they can afford to live.

    We've a few interesting anomalies in this country. Many of those who work around the docklands can't afford to live there, as a result commuting from a far. At the same time you've a lot of prime residential land in the area being used as council housing paying the council a notional rent each week/month. This is t fair to the person who pays high levels of income tax to subsidise johnny on the dole for the last 20 years and living on pearse st.

    What should be done is these sites redeveloped into MUDs, and rented to the highest paying tenants. Using the money from this the council then goes and relocates johnny on the dole for the last 20 years to somewhere where demand for housing isn't as strong.

    You might say then how'd he get a job....the reality is he's been on the dole the last 20 years of his life, living in area rich in employment and couldn't manage to get a job.


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    #26
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    MouseTail wrote: »
    Boyd Barrett would object to free money
    He is talking rubbish. There will be a more streamlined system, operated through Councils. With rent payments going to the Landlord, not tenant. Transfer lists will operate.

    I wouldn't be a huge fan of RBB's political philosophies, but he is genuine in his concern and he does raise some very valid points. Rent payments going directly to landlords is probably a good thing and I don't think you will find any disagreement from landlords or good rent allowance tenants about this. But these new measures and the point raised by the OP are not concerned with that. Your mention of transfer lists was also addressed by RBB in the interview I heard, and while I don't have any experience with how this works, he seemed to raise very valid concerns - namely, how to you transfer out of a rent allowance accommodation? And apparently you can't even get on the transfer list unless it is critical.

    And saying that it will be a streamlined situation operated by the councils is a bit of a joke. While people here like to highlight the spongers in the system, I would like to highlight the spongers employed by the council. In my brief experience of having to get myself placed on the housing list to qualify for rent allowance while I was out of work for four months, I encountered the most useless tossers in the council who had no interest in helping me even though I had worked and paid tax for the previous 20 years.


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    #27
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    An often ignored issue is the "council house for life" system.

    Its often the case that people get a council house when they need it but over time they get back into the workplace and earn decent money. I know of one couple with income of €1800 a week in a council house and they are paying the max rate of rent which is tiny. They have effectively gotten subsidized rent for life as it stands.

    A change needs to occur where council houses can be taken back when the occupiers are no longer considered in need of social housing.


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    #28
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    bajer101 wrote: »
    But I'm alright, because I can afford rent. But if something did happen where I couldn't work, I would like to know that I could get a council house. These new measures would leave me on rent allowance with no sense of security. I think it is a short-sighted measure.
    No one has a sense of security. I have a mortgage to pay. I was unemployed between 2009 and 2010. I got the basic dole, €204 reduced to €196. There was no other money coming due. Do I spoke to the bank and made an interest-only arrangement. I'll be paying for that at the end of the mortgage.

    What security do I have as a houseowner over someone who is renting, over someone who is on rent allowance? If the money stops getting paid, we all have to move.


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    #29
    bajer101
    Registered Users Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    Owryan wrote: »
    An often ignored issue is the "council house for life" system.

    Its often the case that people get a council house when they need it but over time they get back into the workplace and earn decent money. I know of one couple with income of €1800 a week in a council house and they are paying the max rate of rent which is tiny. They have effectively gotten subsidized rent for life as it stands.

    A change needs to occur where council houses can be taken back when the occupiers are no longer considered in need of social housing.

    I think you are wrong there. Most councils charge rent for council houses based on the wages of the tenants - with no max cap. Sometimes this can result in the tenants paying more than the market rate. I was going out with a girl who had a council house and when I enquired about moving in with her it became apparent that due to my salary, we would have ended up paying over €1k a month - for a crappy property in a horrible estate, when you could rent a four bed semi in a private estate in the same town for the same price. Needless to say, we rented the private house. But she kept the council house and paid her nominal rent, because otherwise she would have lost if/when we split up - which we did. Crazy system that encourages this and which resulted in a house lying empty. But what could she do?


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    #30
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Ok, to avoid the political or media spin on this and to avoid the thread descending into chaos below are the links to the legislation mentioned in the OP.

    Legislation: http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,37985,en.pdf

    Explanatory Memo: http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,37986,en.pdf

    Please feel free to discuss the legislation, the new Housing Assistance Scheme, updates to how the existing laws are being amended etc.
    Do not have this descend into an RA/Council House/DSP recipient bashing thread - I will issue infractions/bans if you ignore this warning.


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    #31
    BOHS
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭BOHS


    The problem with the housing list/ rent allowance is that pretty much anyone can apply once you are under the income limit i.e an 18 year old can decide they just want to move out of the family home and get RA for private rented accommodation. This means that anyone can technically get a council house once they wait long enough.

    Realistically all council housing should be allocated to people with a medical or welfare priority before anyone else is considered. The problem with the new scheme is that people who really do need council housing will have their position hurt by moving to the transfer list.


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