Foal killed in Galway

Dan_Solo

TristanPeter wrote: »

That's the a big part of the problem for sure. Unfortunately it looks like we have to demand that they are enforced by the council.

I don't think law enforcement is really the council's job. We've heard it here and I've seen it first hand. On the blue moon that the Gardai respond to this kind of report, they do the usual drive by and nothing at all is done. If an unchipped and abused large animal is abandoned in a public space, why is it ignored?

TristanPeter

The way I look at it is, these horses are being kept in large on council-owned land by the travelling community. They are even being kept in the back gardens of council houses (Rocklands Avenue for example). The council/Dept. of the Environment should therefore direct the Gardai to intervene and confiscate the poor things. It should be a joint effort. If Gardai see them on council land they should not ignore them, as in, not have to be told by the council to deal with it.

Often what the owners do is keep the horses locked away until Friday evening. Then they move them onto the council land until Monday morning when the council offices re-open.

One concern I do have is that if they are not kept on council land, where will they be kept if they are not confiscated?!

Dan_Solo

TristanPeter wrote: »

One concern I do have is that if they are not kept on council land, where will they be kept if they are not confiscated?!

Either sanctuary/rehomed or destroyed. Just like stray dogs.

Dutchess

Knob Longman wrote: »

You're a genius, Sir..Why did no one ever think of that.

Quote for truth. What a brilliant idea. Enforce it thought, pay them for allowing themselves to be subjected to sterilisation/vasectomy.

TristanPeter

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Either sanctuary/rehomed or destroyed. Just like stray dogs.

I meant, if the travelling community know they can't put them on council land anymore, where will they put them? They will probably leave them locked in back gardens or other dodgy places constantly...well at least until they get killed at the next sulky race by running them into trees and then running off leaving them there to bleed to death (happened lately).

I just saw this story (OP) on the front page of the Galway City Tribune by the way. Must get the paper later. Maybe it will help shame the gardai and the council into action but I won't hold my breath.

Dutchess

So the Tribune suggests they don't know who exactly they were, just that they were kids. I had the impression that they knew who and that they were just doing nothing. I really hope someone from the area has the courage to identify them. Curious to see how that would be followed up.

TristanPeter

Dutchess wrote: »

So the Tribune suggests they don't know who exactly they were, just that they were kids. I had the impression that they knew who and that they were just doing nothing. I really hope someone from the area has the courage to identify them. Curious to see how that would be followed up.

And I'll bet you a tenner that nowadays, with the prevalence of mobile phones someone has photos of it happening.
Must have been pretty big kids to be able to kill an animal in the way they did.

Dutchess

Sure if they're dumb enough a video might grace YouTube soon....

Dan_Solo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah, so for the 1000000th time on boards.ie, the question "why are there no laws to prevent this?" is answered by "There are but nobody bothers their hole enforcing them".
:rolleyes:

The real problem is that laws are selectively enforced.

If we have a farm inspection and a cow is missing both her ear tags (can easily happen during the summer with stock are out in the fields). That alone can lead to hassle from the department. One offence wont do it but a few minor infringements like the above could lead to deductions in payments etc and loads of hassle.

On the other hand there are certain people who treat animals (horses in particular, but dogs etc too) horrifically bad and that's leaving out the real headline incidents like this. Just look at how horses are kept out around carrowbrowne, absolute miserable looking animals tied to poles with little feed and no access to water. If a farmer did that he'd be in court the following week.

The Guards are afraid to step in because there will be some mouth piece on the 6 O'clock news ranting about "racism" or some other nonsense.

Mrs OBumble

the_monkey wrote: »

Don't blame society here, it's the kids parents ... they were never fit for having kids.

Agreed that the parents were never fit for having kids.

But society still let them have an raise kids.

So ... society's fault.

ScumLord

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Thats a load of rubbish, they are just cruel bad minded little bastards.

Being kind to other living creatures is something that you have in you, not something that you have to learn.

It's not something you have in you, it's conditioned into you. There are plenty of cases going back to ancient times of all sorts of cruelty, for the most part of history humans saw animals as something the gods left to them to do with as they wished, depending on the culture. The most respectful groups tended to be hunter gather groups that have the most direct contact with wild animals. Once humans get into a large community and have people supplying them with meat they tend to lose respect for the animals that feed them.

People tend to forget we're animals and we're prone to all sorts of animal behaviour, we also tend to accept what we're told. If people are brought up to be cruel they tend to stay that way and alienating them further isn't going to change their behaviour, it's just going to make them worse.

the_monkey wrote: »

Solution is simple, pay this sub human scum not to have kids ... everyone is a winner, the filth get their money for drink/drugs .... no next generation of scum harming innocents .

All we have to do is start a scumbag identification program where we can label undesirables as scum and then I guess sterilise them would be the only way to make sure. Something like the Australian and American government did to the native populations of their countries.

Roquentin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Stop making excuses for them.

You don't know did society "do" anything to them.

Lot of people had a hard life, they don't go around killing animals.

These kids are a product of their environment. It is the way that they are brought up. Kids mirror their parents.

Segregation then is a big factor. The fact that we discriminate them because of their status, leads them down a route to crime.

When i was working in ballybane, every day i saw the same kids loitering around, bored stiff and looking for trouble, because they had nothing to do.

The best way to minimize this is to educate kids

Dan_Solo

Roquentin wrote: »

Segregation then is a big factor. The fact that we discriminate them because of their status, leads them down a route to crime.

How does society discriminate against scumbags by giving them free education, money and housing for life?

GalwayGuy2

Was it set on fire before or after it was dead?

ScumLord

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Was it set on fire before or after it was dead?

Probably after but who knows.

I still think that an owner that doesn't care about the welfare of their animal probably did see them as being worth money so it wouldn't surprise me if these kids got a beating for what they did. It may be one thing to throw stones at the horse but by killing it someone could be down a few hundred euro.

Galwayguy35

Roquentin wrote: »

These kids are a product of their environment. It is the way that they are brought up. Kids mirror their parents.

Segregation then is a big factor. The fact that we discriminate them because of their status, leads them down a route to crime.

When i was working in ballybane, every day i saw the same kids loitering around, bored stiff and looking for trouble, because they had nothing to do.

The best way to minimize this is to educate kids

And do you think they want to be educated?

Do you think teachers have not already tried to get through to them?

You can't help people who don't want to make things better for themselves.

And to be honest people who do that to an animal could just as easily hurt a person who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Jail time is what they need.

Roquentin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

How does society discriminate against scumbags by giving them free education, money and housing for life?

They are not being educated thats the problem

Irishgoatman

TristanPeter wrote: »

Let's get a petition going, even an online one. We have to do something or we are not helping these poor animals.

I don't live in Galway (I'm on the Mayo/Galway border) but I've a Daughter, Grandchildren and Greatgrandchildren who do, so count me in.

This sort of behaviour has to stop.

Roquentin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

And do you think they want to be educated?

Do you think teachers have not already tried to get through to them?

You can't help people who don't want to make things better for themselves.

And to be honest people who do that to an animal could just as easily hurt a person who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Jail time is what they need.

I agree they need to put in jail alright to curb it. But you have to remember these are kids, who know no better other than being kids. You want to blame someone, blame the parents.

The parents should be making them go to school and the schools should not be discriminating. There is more than one element to the jigsaw.

The government should be pushing the parents hard to make sure they go to school. Thats how you would solve it. Education said mandela is a powerful weapon.

All i see is a cycle with these families (not all of them). The parents treat the kids bad, the kids turn out bad and when they grow up they treat their own kids bad and on and on we go.

Roquentin

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I don't live in Galway (I'm on the Mayo/Galway border) but I've a Daughter, Grandchildren and Greatgrandchildren who do, so count me in.

This sort of behaviour has to stop.

you can start a petition on care2.com.

Il sign and get everyone i know to as well

Irishgoatman

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Thats a load of rubbish, they are just cruel bad minded little bastards.

Being kind to other living creatures is something that you have in you, not something that you have to learn.

To some extent I agree with you, but "Monkey see, Monkey do" also applies.

inisboffin

Sure a lot of these horses on open land are owned by Travellers, but I can tell you plenty of settled people do it too.

Plenty of youngsters in Dublin with horses on inadequate land who come from 'settled' families.

Someone asked how we were discriminating against 'them' - well here is just one example in our assumptions.

If there is an issue with educating these kids, no matter whether settled or traveller then that is the issue. There is a higher incidence of lack of education structures in some groups granted.

Horrible thing to have happen. I understand the gut reactions from people, but we have to think longer term.

Dan_Solo

Roquentin wrote: »

They are not being educated thats the problem

Discriminating against yourself isn't really discrimination.
They are offered an education. They don't want it. They are offered houses. They don't want them.

Roquentin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Discriminating against yourself isn't really discrimination.
They are offered an education. They don't want it. They are offered houses. They don't want them.

Its a two way street.

The parents should be by law putting them in school and also the parents should be teaching them respect.

But there are also schools that reject them outright because they are travellers. You always have a certain school they have to go to.

Them two things and more, feed the system.

I look at some travellers who are so well able to talk and have such good people skills and i think if only they were educated they would go far.

I remember one older traveller who was very smart and telling young traveller kids to be smart, stay in school and stay out of trouble. And they dont listen.

The government should be forcing them to be in school. The cycle will just continue.

Dan_Solo

Roquentin wrote: »

Its a two way street.

The parents should be by law putting them in school and also the parents should be teaching them respect.

But there are also schools that reject them outright because they are travellers. You always have a certain school they have to go to.

No, there isn't. This is simply false.
Also, parents are required, by law, to send their children to school (aaand we're back to unenforced laws again...)

meathstevie

If the council had any balls here's what they should do: horses have to be chipped so round up all the stray ones, check them for microchips. The owners of the chipped ones to be prosecuted for letting the horses wander. The non chipped ones to be shot on the spot and the carcasses destroyed. It may sound cruel but a headshot will have the horse dead on the ground before it has even heard the shot and saves it from further abuse and neglect that will lead to an early painful death anyway. If the so called owners decide to protest and have go at officials carrying out the clean up any amount of baton and pepper spray should be their reward.

Dan_Solo

meathstevie wrote: »

The non chipped ones to be shot on the spot and the carcasses destroyed.

Ah come on now. They could at least ship the horse off somewhere before shooting it!

Roquentin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

No, there isn't. This is simply false.
Also, parents are required, by law, to send their children to school (aaand we're back to unenforced laws again...)

Some schools reject them and they have to go to another school. You are not seriously debating the segregation of travellers?

There are hotels that wont take travellers.

Dan_Solo

Roquentin wrote: »

Some schools reject them and they have to go to another school. You are not seriously debating the segregation of travellers?

There are hotels that wont take travellers.

I am debating the segregation of travellers in schools actually. Can you name these schools who have refused pupils because hey are travellers.
Nice fudging bringing hotels into his. LOL. Relevance?

Da Shins Kelly

I think there is an attitude problem towards animals in general in this country. Animal cruelty laws need to be tightened and there needs to be real and serious consequences for mistreating or neglecting an animal. If people could see real action being taken towards individuals who beat on/kill/neglect animals, then there might actually be a shift. If the authorities don't take animal cruelty seriously, no one else ever will.

galwaygirl08

TristanPeter wrote: »

This kind of cruelty to animals is nothing new in Galway. Last year a horse was set on fire in Ballybane, a while before that a dog was tied up and allowed to starve to death in an alleyway despite "people" using it. I have often contacted the Gardai, the City Council and the GSPCA about cruelty cases and they are all as bad as each other. The GSPCA in my opinion love to jump on the more publicised cases. I'll bet if a whale washed up on a beach they would be all over it like a cheap suit. The gardai always just say "we'll send a car out" and it never happens. As for the council, my God what a bunch of useless, cretins. They don't even answer their phones. Anyway, that's just from my own experiences in dealing with them.

There are laws in place already to deal with cases of cruelty. The council should be petitioned and they should be compelled by the citizens of Galway to act. This has gone on for years now and it will keep happening. They can't just keep regurgitating the same lack of finances argument all the time. AFAIK, last I read, they are paying a contractor something like €200 per horse to remove it. Bottom line is, nothing will be done until the public demand enforcement by the council.

Totally agree with you. We need to get a petition going.?? There's enough decent people in this area to stand up to these cruel, bad minded people. I'm sick of reporting cases to the Gardai, the council etc. it's one law for these people and another for the rest of us.

dan hibiki

id say the biggest problem here is that 90% of people respect animals and loathe animal cruelty, but only 5% would have the balls to act on it (including the authorities). regradless of how much effort is put into promoting animal welfare and educating people, there will allways be bad people, who do bad things to animals. I dont post very often on boards.ie, but this kind of things gets my blood pressure to ****ing boiling point.

Roquentin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I am debating the segregation of travellers in schools actually. Can you name these schools who have refused pupils because hey are travellers.
Nice fudging bringing hotels into his. LOL. Relevance?

I could pretty much name every privileged school in ireland. Its well known that they go out of their way to prevent a traveller coming into the school. We dont hear about it, but they do it.

The hotels do it, the gaa clubs do it, where i grew up you have a certain doctor who deals with traveller patients. Some pubs ban travellers.

Im not going to be so stupid to start naming schools online and risk trouble.

My point is, that one of the reasons they cause trouble is because they are segregated. They are segregated because they cause trouble and also they cause trouble because they are segregated. And as long as you keep segregating them, the violence will continue.

What you have to do, is stop segregating them and try and get them to empathize more with society. Its not just a problem on their end.

Dan_Solo

I flew to another planet once and have 47 supermodel girlfriends.
Specifics? Pah!
Believe me, if a school turned away a pupil because they were a traveller we'd have heard all about it. Not even one linkable news story to corroborate in history?
Yeah, right.

Roquentin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I flew to another planet once and have 47 supermodel girlfriends.
Specifics? Pah!
Believe me, if a school turned away a pupil because they were a traveller we'd have heard all about it. Not even one linkable news story to corroborate in history?
Yeah, right.

Are you trying to wind me up?

Dan_Solo

Roquentin wrote: »

Are you trying to wind me up?

If being asked to supply any sort of evidence to back up your statements gets you wound up, then, yeah, I guess I am.

PLUG71

Sick fcukers should receive the same punishment!

Awaits lash back from all the 'do gudders'!!

PLUG71

Roquentin wrote: »

I agree they need to put in jail alright to curb it. But you have to remember these are kids, who know no better other than being kids. You want to blame someone, blame the parents.

The parents should be making them go to school and the schools should not be discriminating. There is more than one element to the jigsaw.

The government should be pushing the parents hard to make sure they go to school. Thats how you would solve it. Education said mandela is a powerful weapon.

All i see is a cycle with these families (not all of them). The parents treat the kids bad, the kids turn out bad and when they grow up they treat their own kids bad and on and on we go.

What a load off crap!!

These kids are old enough to know what they were doing was causing distress and pain, but lets just make excuses and blame their backgrounds!!!:mad:

JillyQ

PLUG71 wrote: »

Sick fcukers should receive the same punishment!

Awaits lash back from all the 'do gudders'!!

Totally agree with you.

Gremlinertia

I couldn't give two effs what background or what school these teenagers come from or go to.. Fact remains that they acted abhorrently and deserve the full extent of the punishment allowed on them.. If nothing else perhaps it might give others cause to think twice before getting their jollies out of inflicting pain and suffering on a creature that didn't ask for it nor can defend itself.. I feel sick..

Roquentin

PLUG71 wrote: »

What a load off crap!!

These kids are old enough to know what they were doing was causing distress and pain, but lets just make excuses and blame their backgrounds!!!:mad:

How do you even know what age they are?

PLUG71

Roquentin wrote: »

How do you even know what age they are?

My son is three and he knows that hurting animals is bad!

So I guess that as these little turds were out on their own without supervision from their parents they must be off an age to know the diffrence between right and wrong.

Its called a calculated guess!

Then their are people like you that will defend the poor children that come from terrible backgrounds etc etc etc!

Makes my blood boil to be honest.

galwaygirl08

Why do so many people on here argue with one another??! Bottom line-these people have done wrong. It's an absolute sin if they get away with it. And you know what, they will probably do it again and again.
Age has been mentioned, and yes he is a young lad if the story i hear is correct. It doesn't take long for people to talk. Galway is too small.

Roquentin

So I guess that as these little turds were out on their own without supervision from their parents they must be off an age to know the diffrence between right and wrong.

They have been brought up not to know the difference between right and wrong. Thats my point. The reason why you or i would not do this, is not because we are inherently good people or born good, its because we have had good childhoods, with parents that taught us right and wrong.

These kids are a product of their environment. The man you are today can be traced back to your childhood.

Then their are people like you that will defend the poor children that come from terrible backgrounds etc etc etc!

I am not defending them. I simply observe what i see and i look at pattern. The fact that travellers across the country ill treat their animals shows that something is going wrong in the way those kids are educated and by education i mean at home and school.

Also i am thinking of trying to do something in the long term. Short term is putting them in prison, and they should be in prison. But long term is tackling the problem on a bigger scale. The government should be targeting the traveller community more.

Makes my blood boil to be honest.

I am laughing my head off that you are getting mad at an LCD screen. Grow up FFS. You dont even know me. The sun is shining, try and enjoy it. Life is short

Roquentin

galwaygirl08 wrote: »

Why do so many people on here argue with one another??! Bottom line-these people have done wrong. It's an absolute sin if they get away with it. And you know what, they will probably do it again and again.
Age has been mentioned, and yes he is a young lad if the story i hear is correct. It doesn't take long for people to talk. Galway is too small.

Yea, but my point is that next month or next year you will get repetition of the crime by someone else.

The kid should be in trouble, but putting one kid in jail, wont stop another kid, because the whole system is flawed.

Travellers treat their animals bad, so the whole must be targeted rather than the individual. It is the system that is broke, not just one individual

Dan_Solo

Roquentin wrote: »

I am not defending them. I simply observe what i see and i look at pattern. The fact that travellers across the country ill treat their animals shows that something is going wrong in the way those kids are educated and by education i mean at home and school.

We have yet to be provided with a single example of this discrimination against traveller children at school.
And before you start, I was at school with some of them myself, so my anecdote beats the ****e out of anything you've got.

dharma200

These children are a product of their surroundings and upbringing. They were not born foal beaters.

The problem is inherently deeper than that and the whole traveller community need to something within their own community to stop these types of behaviours.

No one in their right mind thinks this is acceptable, but most in their right mind know that people are not born evil. There is a way to help not only the animal world but those who perpetrate these cruelties rather than stick waving and blood boiling.
I hope the particular community works together to not only locate those who did it, but work out a way to stop it happening again.

Dan_Solo

dharma200 wrote: »

I hope the particular community works together to not only locate those who did it, but work out a way to stop it happening again.

Not a hope in hell.

Roquentin

Dan_Solo wrote: »

We have yet to be provided with a single example of this discrimination against traveller children at school.
And before you start, I was at school with some of them myself, so my anecdote beats the ****e out of anything you've got.

http://www.thejournal.ie/traveller-loses-legal-case-over-right-to-attend-local-school-345270-Feb2012/


Schools can choose who they take in. Colleges cannot. Schools go through carefully who they are taking in and try and weed out any students who would be deemed a potential trouble maker.

I thought you were dating the 47 models....

PLUG71

Roquentin wrote: »

They have been brought up not to know the difference between right and wrong. Thats my point. The reason why you or i would not do this, is not because we are inherently good people or born good, its because we have had good childhoods, with parents that taught us right and wrong.

These kids are a product of their environment. The man you are today can be traced back to your childhood.




I am not defending them. I simply observe what i see and i look at pattern. The fact that travellers across the country ill treat their animals shows that something is going wrong in the way those kids are educated and by education i mean at home and school.

Also i am thinking of trying to do something in the long term. Short term is putting them in prison, and they should be in prison. But long term is tackling the problem on a bigger scale. The government should be targeting the traveller community more.


I am laughing my head off that you are getting mad at an LCD screen. Grow up FFS. You dont even know me. The sun is shining, try and enjoy it. Life is short

Thankyou for your expert opinion!:rolleyes:

I will try to grow up and enjoy the weather.:rolleyes:

You are right life is to short.

The government will do fcuk all as well you know because of the ridiculous softly softly approach that is apparent everyday in this country regarding certain groups of people.