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Foal killed in Galway

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    #212
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,957 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    galwaygirl08 wrote: »
    ...Cllrs. I also rang the gardai Fri evening as names were starting to circulate as to who carried out this horrific attack, and I wanted to see had they any update on the case. Would you believe the guards were to phone me back once they looked up their system and surprisingly no call since. I rang the council today, and left a message for a tenant liaison officer-she hasn't returned my call either. There is a horse being kept in a back garden and it is so sickening to see.

    In fairness, data privacy means that the guards cannot just be telling you if a named individual is being investigated for a crime - imagine the fishing expeditions that people could go on.

    Ditto the housing officers: they are not free to tell you what specific actions are being taken against individual tenants.



    Can I ask one question: if there is a horse being kept in cruel conditions, I'm sure we agree that the horse should be removed from those conditions. But what should happen to it next? Should the government (ie taxpayers) provide an infinite capacity to house confiscated horses which no responsible owner wants to buy? Assuming no one has budget for this - should the horses simply be killed? Do you have a clear understanding of how bad a situation needs to be to justify killing a horse?

    My guess is that budget concerns are the main reason for inaction here, rather than willful disregard of animal welfare.


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    #213
    galwaygirl08
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭galwaygirl08


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    In fairness, data privacy means that the guards cannot just be telling you if a named individual is being investigated for a crime - imagine the fishing expeditions that people could go on.

    Ditto the housing officers: they are not free to tell you what specific actions are being taken against individual tenants.



    Can I ask one question: if there is a horse being kept in cruel conditions, I'm sure we agree that the horse should be removed from those conditions. But what should happen to it next? Should the government (ie taxpayers) provide an infinite capacity to house confiscated horses which no responsible owner wants to buy? Assuming no one has budget for this - should the horses simply be killed? Do you have a clear understanding of how bad a situation needs to be to justify killing a horse?

    My guess is that budget concerns are the main reason for inaction here, rather than willful disregard of animal welfare.

    I don't want any names. I want to know if they have prosecuted anyone as of yet. On every newspaper article they were appealing for people to get in touch in which I did. I heard names circulating in the area and wanted to put them forward.
    As regards the housing officer, i wanted to report a horse in the back garden. Unruly behavior. Drug use etc. All coming from the one resident.


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    #214
    Irishgoatman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,741 ✭✭✭Irishgoatman


    Just found the petitions through Facebook so I'm back looking at this thread. Good to see that it's back on topic.

    Well done Roquentin and TristanPeter for the petitions.

    Haven't caught up on all posts here yet so please take it as read that I have added thanks to all connected with the petitions.

    Let's hope that people sit up and take notice.


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    #215
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,957 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    galwaygirl08 wrote: »
    I don't want any names. I want to know if they have prosecuted anyone as of yet. On every newspaper article they were appealing for people to get in touch in which I did. I heard names circulating in the area and wanted to put them forward.
    As regards the housing officer, i wanted to report a horse in the back garden. Unruly behavior. Drug use etc. All coming from the one resident.

    Ok, so there was no need for the guards to ring you back: you had information to share with them, you gave it to them. They will not be getting back to you, unless they want more information from you.

    And re the ASB: you need to put your concerns in writing, with your name and address on the letter. Again, they cannot report back to you, but the information they get from you helps to build a case against the tenant.


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    #216
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    My guess is that budget concerns are the main reason for inaction here, rather than willful disregard of animal welfare.
    There's also just simple inaction to consider. Not caring enough to bother is a different thing to wishing the animals and affected residents ill. What I really can't understand is that the odd time when the Gardai do call out to animals on public land, nothing ever seems to be actually done except a chat with the owner. Or if they can't find the owner they just head off again as if there's no problem.


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    #217
    thegreatgonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭thegreatgonzo


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »

    Can I ask one question: if there is a horse being kept in cruel conditions, I'm sure we agree that the horse should be removed from those conditions. But what should happen to it next? Should the government (ie taxpayers) provide an infinite capacity to house confiscated horses which no responsible owner wants to buy? Assuming no one has budget for this - should the horses simply be killed? Do you have a clear understanding of how bad a situation needs to be to justify killing a horse?

    My guess is that budget concerns are the main reason for inaction here, rather than willful disregard of animal welfare.

    Well going by the figures in the Dept Agriculture website, most seized horses get put down. The 2012 figures say that out of 2969 horses seized, 446 were reclaimed by their owners, 384 were rehomed and 2125 were killed.


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    #218
    galwaygirl08
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭galwaygirl08


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Ok, so there was no need for the guards to ring you back: you had information to share with them, you gave it to them. They will not be getting back to you, unless they want more information from you.

    And re the ASB: you need to put your concerns in writing, with your name and address on the letter. Again, they cannot report back to you, but the information they get from you helps to build a case against the tenant.

    I didn't share any info with any guard is my point, they were looking up the case and phoning me back. These were their words. They are dealing with other ongoing issues in the area also.


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    #219
    TristanPeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭TristanPeter


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Can I ask one question: if there is a horse being kept in cruel conditions, I'm sure we agree that the horse should be removed from those conditions. But what should happen to it next? Should the government (ie taxpayers) provide an infinite capacity to house confiscated horses which no responsible owner wants to buy? Assuming no one has budget for this - should the horses simply be killed? Do you have a clear understanding of how bad a situation needs to be to justify killing a horse?

    My guess is that budget concerns are the main reason for inaction here, rather than willful disregard of animal welfare.

    What I think needs to be done here is firstly have the Council/Gardai acknowledge the problem, that the law is being broken continuously and then we need to open dialogue with them to come up with sustainable solutions, as per the petition. This behaviour has to end regardless. They have the petition now, and they have to look at the issue very seriously. The Council are paid to manage the city, so they have to manage this too. I know there is no silver bullet solution out there but by at least stemming the flow, they should be able to focus on the current numbers of abused/neglected horses. Otherwise it will continue indefinitely and the same problems will always be there. Ignoring it any longer is not an option.


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    #220
    galwaygirl08
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭galwaygirl08


    TristanPeter wrote: »
    What I think needs to be done here is firstly have the Council/Gardai acknowledge the problem, that the law is being broken continuously and then we need to open dialogue with them to come up with sustainable solutions, as per the petition. This behaviour has to end regardless. They have the petition now, and they have to look at the issue very seriously. The Council are paid to manage the city, so they have to manage this too. I know there is no silver bullet solution out there but by at least stemming the flow, they should be able to focus on the current numbers of abused/neglected horses. Otherwise it will continue indefinitely and the same problems will always be there. Ignoring it any longer is not an option.

    I was back in touch with a member of the council and also the Gardai this afternoon. The Garda told me it was a matter for the GSPCA and the council to deal with, not them and she asked me would she put me through to the council directly.

    When I spoke to a member of the council and informed them that there was a horse being kept in the back garden and out on the green area opposite the house, (with kids taunting it and trying to get up on his back) he told me there wasn't much he could do as it is a privately owned house being rented out and he couldn't enter the garden. With regards to the horse being moved out on to the green area, he said he would send someone out, but there was no guarantee that they would be able to seize him. I continue to leave voicemails for the GSPCA but I understand they have their hands full too.
    I'm banging my head off a brick wall. What do I do next? We are not getting sleep at night listening to animals crying. (Dogs/horses) not to mention the multitude of other probems we are dealing with also.


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    #221
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,957 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    galwaygirl08 wrote: »
    ...it is a privately owned house being rented out and he couldn't enter the garden. ...

    I'm banging my head off a brick wall. What do I do next? We are not getting sleep at night listening to animals crying. (Dogs/horses) not to mention the multitude of other probems we are dealing with also.

    So you need to find the landlord of the house, and complain about the anti-social behaviour of his/her tenants. If s/he doesn't help, then I think you have an option of complaining to the PRTB.

    Other than that, you may simply need to move. Some people are just not cut out for living in more challenging neighbourhoods.


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    #222
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Other than that, you may simply need to move. Some people are just not cut out for living in more challenging neighbourhoods.
    Can't tell if serious!?


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    #223
    galwaygirl08
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭galwaygirl08


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Can't tell if serious!?

    Same! Like seriously?

    The PRTB have been contacted, but again no answer or email returned just yet. The address is not registered having looked it up online on the public register. I am not very clued up on how they work? However, the council told me it is next to impossible to get anywhere with them.


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    #224
    meoklmrk91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    galwaygirl08 wrote: »
    I was back in touch with a member of the council and also the Gardai this afternoon. The Garda told me it was a matter for the GSPCA and the council to deal with, not them and she asked me would she put me through to the council directly.

    When I spoke to a member of the council and informed them that there was a horse being kept in the back garden and out on the green area opposite the house, (with kids taunting it and trying to get up on his back) he told me there wasn't much he could do as it is a privately owned house being rented out and he couldn't enter the garden. With regards to the horse being moved out on to the green area, he said he would send someone out, but there was no guarantee that they would be able to seize him. I continue to leave voicemails for the GSPCA but I understand they have their hands full too.
    I'm banging my head off a brick wall. What do I do next? We are not getting sleep at night listening to animals crying. (Dogs/horses) not to mention the multitude of other probems we are dealing with also.

    How can the Gardai say that? It is not up to the council and the GSPCA to investigate a criminal offence. When a criminal offence has been committed the gardai are duty bound to investigate it.

    The council saying that they can't do anything is bull too. There is a by law which states that horses cannot be kept within city limits, couldn't they seize it on those grounds? Could they not scan it for a microchip and ask to see the passport? Could they not get a vet out to evaluate the condition of the horse etc. etc. There are a multitude of thing the gardai and the council could do they just want to pass the buck to someone else. Galway officials are no different than the rest all across the country it seems, suffering from an acute case of laziness.

    Galwaygirl, if it were me and I wasn't worried about repercussions then I would be getting onto all the local papers to tell them about this. It seems nothing will change, the gardai and the council will continue to be apathetic, and this will happen again.

    @Galwaygirl check this out: http://connachttribune.ie/action-urged-following-cruel-killing-of-foal-in-the-city/ Might be worth contacting this lady she seems to want action taken and might be able to help.


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    #225
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    meoklmrk91 wrote: »
    How can the Gardai say that? It is not up to the council and the GSPCA to investigate a criminal offence. When a criminal offence has been committed the gardai are duty bound to investigate it.

    The council saying that they can't do anything is bull too. There is a by law which states that horses cannot be kept within city limits, couldn't they seize it on those grounds? Could they not scan it for a microchip and ask to see the passport? Could they not get a vet out to evaluate the condition of the horse etc. etc. There are a multitude of thing the gardai and the council could do they just want to pass the buck to someone else. Galway officials are no different than the rest all across the country it seems, suffering from an acute case of laziness.

    Galwaygirl, if it were me and I wasn't worried about repercussions then I would be getting onto all the local papers to tell them about this. It seems nothing will change, the gardai and the council will continue to be apathetic, and this will happen again.

    @Galwaygirl check this out: http://connachttribune.ie/action-urged-following-cruel-killing-of-foal-in-the-city/ Might be worth contacting this lady she seems to want action taken and might be able to help.

    I agree. because it is an animal they just forget about it.

    I suggest we bombard the powers that be with emails. And keep asking people to sign the petition.


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    #226
    meoklmrk91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    Roquentin wrote: »
    I agree. because it is an animal they just forget about it.

    I suggest we bombard the powers that be with emails. And keep asking people to sign the petition.

    Absolutely, keep making noise and let them know you aren't going away. I would suggest getting together with the GSPCA or a similar organisation, they usually have loads of supporters that they can reach easily via their FB pages. Many people would probably love to be involved in this but they don't know where to begin. The more signatures, the more emails, the better, they can't just keep turning a blind eye and a deaf ear if they are being constantly called to action on this issue.


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    #227
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,898 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    If there is neglect rather than cruelty it makes sense that the Guards would contact the GSPCA. The Guards aren't going to be knowledgeable regarding horse welfare.

    Someone asked about the role of Vets. You won't get a conviction without a Vet testifying that the animal suffered.

    I have been told that SPCA'S can find it difficult to get a Vet to testify. The Vet may consider that being a snitch is bad for business.

    Have people confirmed that the area has been designated as covered by the new law?

    One other thing. Keeping a horse in your back garden may not be cruel. It depends on how the horse is kept, exercised etc.


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    #228
    TristanPeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭TristanPeter


    Discodog wrote: »

    One other thing. Keeping a horse in your back garden may not be cruel. It depends on how the horse is kept, exercised etc.

    I suppose that's true technically Discodog but I sure would not like it if my neighbour decided to keep a horse in their back garden.

    Overall, what I think will happen is the Council and the Gardai will all keep very quiet about this and hope it blows over. They will just pass the buck, it's what they have always done.

    Let's demand a public hearing so we can once and for all find out who is responsible for what exactly. Give the Council/Gardai one week from today to do their homework on the law and then answer our questions. They are public representatives.


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    #229
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,898 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    TristanPeter wrote: »
    I suppose that's true technically Discodog but I sure would not like it if my neighbour decided to keep a horse in their back garden.

    Overall, what I think will happen is the Council and the Gardai will all keep very quiet about this and hope it blows over. They will just pass the buck, it's what they have always done.

    Let's demand a public hearing so we can once and for all find out who is responsible for what exactly. Give the Council/Gardai one week from today to do their homework on the law and then answer our questions. They are public representatives.

    The Gardai are responsible for prosecuting cruelty. But they will rely on Veterinary/SPCA reports.

    The Council are responsible for the implementation of the Control of Horses Act.

    Some links:

    http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/VeterinaryServices/AnimalWelfare/

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kildarestreet.com%2Fwrans%2F%3Fid%3D2014-01-30a.476&rct=j&q=Galway%20control%20of%20horses&ei=feapU_GsF--w7AbZnIEg&usg=AFQjCNE1Fvb8cbP4c1lo0KM0lPK8aDJMUg&bvm=bv.69620078,d.ZGU


    http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2013-11-26a.1139

    http://www.galwaycoco.ie/en/Services/CountyGalwayJointPolicingCommittee/JPCMeetings/Minutes/07.12.09%20-%20Minutes.doc

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=17&ved=0CCsQFjAGOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Foireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie%2Fdebates%2520authoring%2Fdebateswebpack.nsf%2F(indexlookupseanad)%2F20131126~MM%3Fopendocument&rct=j&q=Galway%20control%20of%20horses&ei=4eipU8CSGpOg7Ab7ioDIDw&usg=AFQjCNHlHBvQJPx-SSOGFdWuGje2O1iwxQ&bvm=bv.69620078,d.ZGU


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    #230
    TristanPeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭TristanPeter


    Discodog wrote: »
    The Gardai are responsible for prosecuting cruelty. But they will rely on Veterinary/SPCA reports.

    The Council are responsible for the implementation of the Control of Horses Act.

    So what I want to know is why are neither doing anything? This animal abuse and neglect has gone on for years now. Also, let's say the Council do try to implement the act, as they should be doing but tenants/owners are not complying, surely it is the job of the Gardai then to enforce it on behalf of the Council, as in remove the horses, or assist with it and/or evict the tenants if they continue to break the law.

    I'm not arguing here, I just want answers from the Council and the Gardai, and I want to know what they intend to do on an on-going basis.


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    #231
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,898 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    TristanPeter wrote: »
    So what I want to know is why are neither doing anything? This animal abuse and neglect has gone on for years now. Also, let's say the Council do try to implement the act, as they should be doing but tenants/owners are not complying, surely it is the job of the Gardai then to enforce it on behalf of the Council, as in remove the horses, or assist with it and/or evict the tenants if they continue to break the law.

    I'm not arguing here, I just want answers from the Council and the Gardai, and I want to know what they intend to do on an on-going basis.

    The Council are responsible for enforcing the Act. The only way that the Gardai would be involved is to prevent a breach of the peace.


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    #232
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Discodog wrote: »
    The Council are responsible for enforcing the Act. The only way that the Gardai would be involved is to prevent a breach of the peace.
    I don't get this exactly. If you just ignore the council completely, what can they do? What are these laws for if there is no actual way they can ever be enforced?


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    #233
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,898 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I don't get this exactly. If you just ignore the council completely, what can they do? What are these laws for if there is no actual way they can ever be enforced?

    They can charge you or they can get the Guards to arrest you.


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    #234
    galwaygirl08
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭galwaygirl08


    When the issue is discussed indepth like this wouldn't it actually bewilder you even more?! I think the entire thing is just nuts!


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    #235
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    galwaygirl08 wrote: »
    When the issue is discussed indepth like this wouldn't it actually bewilder you even more?! I think the entire thing is just nuts!
    The council, GSPCA and the Gardai seem to have set up a nice little pass the buck circle on this one. Would be nice to see somebody do their job for a change.


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    #236
    Discodog
    Registered Users Posts: 15,898 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    galwaygirl08 wrote: »
    When the issue is discussed indepth like this wouldn't it actually bewilder you even more?! I think the entire thing is just nuts!

    The law is very clear. The reluctance of the Council & Guards to act is possibly because of the hassle.

    If a horse is seized it will probably be killed. It involves a lot of work & expense to seize, impound & kill a horse.

    There is also the suspected reluctance to challenge members of certain communities.


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    #237
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,957 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Discodog wrote: »
    The law is very clear. The reluctance of the Council & Guards to act is possibly because of the hassle.

    If a horse is seized it will probably be killed. It involves a lot of work & expense to seize, impound & kill a horse.

    There is also the little question of budget. Do you know how much budget the council has for seizing horses and the follow-up worik that is needed?

    What do you think the council officers should do if the budget is inadequate?


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    #238
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    There is also the little question of budget. Do you know how much budget the council has for seizing horses and the follow-up worik that is needed?

    What do you think the council officers should do if the budget is inadequate?
    Stop building all weather pitches? Stop funding schemes like "Promotion and development of Galway as Ireland’s Floral City"? Stop funding what should be private operations like the Taibhdhearc? Do you think these are more important issues than horses being kept in back gardens or neglected?


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    #239
    TristanPeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭TristanPeter


    If I remember correctly, not long ago I paid about €200 in LPT. This is a new tax which was not there a few years ago and horse neglect was still a huge issue. What are they doing with all the LPT money I'd like to know. Has the animal abuse situation improved since it was introduced as this money is meant to stay local. I will ask them this at the public hearing.


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    #240
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    If it's purely a budget issue then I'd scrap all €4,000,000 the City Council spends on the arts per year. Horses are being left to starve and be beaten to death on the side of the road, but at least the flowers lovely this time of year and you can watch some auld crap as Gaeilge down the theatre.
    While control of horses is included in Division G (Agriculture, Education, Health &
    Welfare) of the budget book, this service is delivered by the Housing Department. The
    budget provision for 2013 was not sufficient to cover the costs involved in control and
    impounding of horses and the proposed provision has been increased to €50,000 for
    2014. The Council has also agreed to collaborate with the Galway Traveller
    Movement in undertaking a feasibility study on a horse project for the city that will
    focus on animal stabling, care and welfare and also training in equine-related skills.
    Funding is included in the budget to support the preparation of the feasibly study and
    the business case.
    There you go. The Council had allocated a total budget of zero to horses, but now has €50,000 for it. I propose they spend it all on immediate destruction of impounded horses.
    And the travellers can get knotted too with this latest handout scheme. If they want to keep horses they can pay for them like everybody else does. I must get onto the council and tell them I'm buying a camel, see if they'll stable it for me. Sheesh.


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    #241
    TristanPeter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭TristanPeter


    According to the Gardai, quoted from today's Galway Independent, the GSPCA have not even made a formal complaint regarding the original post here, that the GSPCA are gathering evidence. The GSPCA are private detectives now, the Gardai don't gather evidence anymore and according to Liam Hanrahan of the Council, "as soon as a call comes to their office, an inspector is dispatched and will seize the animal..." hahahahahha, oh and the best part, "often they receive complaints too late or not at all"


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