Clerical Positions in the Civil and Public Service

bulmersgal

Gareth178 wrote: »

i think what you're referring to is "term time" where parents of children of school-going age may apply to take off unpaid leave for the period of the school holidays. It is still available as far as I know but as far as i know it's dependent on local management who take into account office operational capacity and amount of applications for "term time" received.

Obviously, it's not an entitlement and will depend on the circumstances and workload of the office that you'd be assigned to.

I could be wrong about some of the above details, but that's the gist of it

Thanks for that, I'm on lookout for job after getting a first in my accounting and finance degree. Would like a job that is mainly 9-5 as it's just me and my daughter so I don't want to be working mad hours in a job and missing out seeing my daughter as she's only 4.

Gareth178

barneystinson wrote: »

It's not just available to people with kids, sure that'd be discrimination!

point taken, barney,

I see the circular refers to it as such ...guess that's why they did away with the "term time" reference too!!! :>

"The purpose of the shorter working year Scheme is to permit civil servants to balance their working arrangements with outside commitments, including the school holiday periods of their children"

boobar

bulmersgal wrote: »

Haha I'm not silly enough to ask at interview that's why I'm asking here. The savings in crèche fees would make up for the decrease in wages

You'd also have the option of parental leave.

ezra_pound

boobar wrote: »

You'd also have the option of parental leave.

This is a statutory entitlement for all employees so not restricted to PS/cs.

Technocentral

leinsterdude wrote: »

Can not believe that money....how would you pay a mortgage and have kids in creche etc ?

You could say that about a huge amount of jobs in the private sector to.

barneystinson

ezra_pound wrote: »

This is a statutory entitlement for all employees so not restricted to PS/cs.

Statutory entitlement is all well and good, but you need an employer who will facilitate you in taking it. The PS is much more accommodating in this regard, generally speaking!

redout

ezra_pound wrote: »

I believe that all stupid people should believe something.

The fact that you believe that cronyism existed before the 80s in cs appointments doesn't mean that you can imply that it's an objective fact that is to be accepted at large because there is no evidence and you are making it up.

Some evidence of this cronyism would be nice.

If not maybe you could admit that you are talking through your... you know what.

ezra_pound wrote: »

But you still haven't established that it ever existed in the cs. OK I'll accept you point with reference to "across Irish society as a whole". It's a strawman argument to draw from that that it ever existed in cs appointments. You are taking through your arse seriously.

Your anecdotal story is really just embarrassing. As the other poster pointed out anyone who has applied for any new entry position since 2012 will know what the actual story you were told is. Someone was obviously just trying to explain the new testing system to you. You clearly didn't understand what you were being told and made up the anecdote to suit your point.

The word deluded comes to mind.

Government parties have filled the civil service with political friends for years as well as appointing civil servants to other positions without consulting the opposition parties nor running transparent open recruitment. Gallagher from FA to the Ombudsman commission springs to mind.

Ex-Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said that persons are appointed to state boards and agencies on the basis of friendship. This begs the question of the integrity of the appointments system regarding any positions, which are related to government and that, would obviously include the civil service under that large umbrella.

In 2009 Transparency International released their report on Ireland, which found that "Significantly however, Ireland is regarded by domestic and international observers as suffering high levels of ‘legal corruption’. While no laws may be broken, personal relationships, patronage, political favours, and political donations are believed to influence political decisions and policy to a considerable degree." That report also recommended that appointments should be subject to public competition.

As for 2012, me not understanding and whatever other tripe you spewed I will say to you what I said to the other chap, you obviously do not know what competition I am referring to either considering this incident happened more recently than 2012. You it would seem, appear to be the one making things up to suit your argument. If you are both so confident as to accuse me of lying and not knowing the facts then I suggest you both feel free to avail of the pm system and inform me of which competition it is that I am referring. In fact, the whole discussion should go to pm considering how it is entirely off-topic at this stage.

You seem like a right little keyboard warrior there with the snide comments, which I don't appreciate.

Tigger99

The civil service doesn't include the FA? Neither do state bodies or semi state bodies. This competition is for CO's in the civil service.

Anyway back on topic. Good luck to everyone applying.

ezra_pound

redout wrote: »

Government parties have filled the civil service with political friends for years as well as appointing civil servants to other positions without consulting the opposition parties nor running transparent open recruitment. Gallagher from FA to the Ombudsman commission springs to mind.

Ex-Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said that persons are appointed to state boards and agencies on the basis of friendship. This begs the question of the integrity of the appointments system regarding any positions, which are related to government and that, would obviously include the civil service under that large umbrella.

In 2009 Transparency International released their report on Ireland, which found that "Significantly however, Ireland is regarded by domestic and international observers as suffering high levels of ‘legal corruption’. While no laws may be broken, personal relationships, patronage, political favours, and political donations are believed to influence political decisions and policy to a considerable degree." That report also recommended that appointments should be subject to public competition.

As for 2012, me not understanding and whatever other tripe you spewed I will say to you what I said to the other chap, you obviously do not know what competition I am referring to either considering this incident happened more recently than 2012. You it would seem, appear to be the one making things up to suit your argument. If you are both so confident as to accuse me of lying and not knowing the facts then I suggest you both feel free to avail of the pm system and inform me of which competition it is that I am referring. In fact, the whole discussion should go to pm considering how it is entirely off-topic at this stage.

You seem like a right little keyboard warrior there with the snide comments, which I don't appreciate.

Being a member of a state board is not being a civil servant.

Celia Larkin, for instance, was not a civil servant when appointed to a board by Bertie.

Please stop. You're seriously talking xxxxx.

DesertCreat_15

Can we get this back on topic FFS !

:rolleyes:

ezra_pound

redout wrote: »

As for 2012, me not understanding and whatever other tripe you spewed I will say to you what I said to the other chap, you obviously do not know what competition I am referring to either considering this incident happened more recently than 2012. You it would seem, appear to be the one making things up to suit your argument. If you are both so confident as to accuse me of lying and not knowing the facts then I suggest you both feel free to avail of the pm system and inform me of which competition it is that I am referring. In fact, the whole discussion should go to pm considering how it is entirely off-topic at this stage.

I said since 2012. So yes that would make sense that the competition you are referring to happened SINCE 2012.

RoadhouseBlues

I wonder will the online questionnaire be similar to the one for the temporary jobs.

scabo33

Working as a TCO at present and it's one of the best jobs I've ever worked in. Obviously the pay is low, the public sector is on it's knees. But look what u get in return , job security. You can't get that anyway anymore.

I think there has been a few jeering comments towards qualifications on this. I'm working with TCOs at present with no leaving cert and 20 years experience. The competition for is will be huge, ranging from fresh graduates to highly qualified professionals needing full time work. From a masters graduate who was unemployed for 12 months, apply for everything and take what u get.

Let the hunger games begin.

Technocentral

RoadhouseBlues wrote: »

I wonder will the online questionnaire be similar to the one for the temporary jobs.

Identical I'd imagine, its the same job after all only permanent.

RoadhouseBlues

Technocentral wrote: »

Identical I'd imagine, its the same job after all only permanent.

I managed to get a tco contract first time I tried. The last two times though, I have only managed to get on the reserve panel. Hopefully I do better this time.

RoadhouseBlues

scabo33 wrote: »

Working as a TCO at present and it's one of the best jobs I've ever worked in. Obviously the pay is low, the public sector is on it's knees. But look what u get in return , job security. You can't get that anyway anymore.

I think there has been a few jeering comments towards qualifications on this. I'm working with TCOs at present with no leaving cert and 20 years experience. The competition for is will be huge, ranging from fresh graduates to highly qualified professionals needing full time work. From a masters graduate who was unemployed for 12 months, apply for everything and take what u get.

Let the hunger games begin.

My tco contract was with the social welfare. I loved it and was gutted when I had to leave. The lack of a leaving cert was never an issue and I was well able for the work. I was never as comfortable in a job. It was my perfect job. It would be great to get the old paw in the door and get permanent.

DesertCreat_15

4 of us TCO's have no end dates on our contracts, whereas 4 that had started after us do. Wonder why that is?

RoadhouseBlues

The 4 that have end dates were prob covering for people on leave. You are lucky. You're contract is open which means you might become permanent.

DesertCreat_15

Wow, if that is the case then that's good news so! :eek:

RoadhouseBlues

Yep. Best of luck. Hope it works out. It was my bad luck to have an end date, and the person that came in after me had an open one. He is permanent now. Argggghhhhhhhhh.

Technocentral

DesertCreat_15 wrote: »

4 of us TCO's have no end dates on our contracts, whereas 4 that had started after us do. Wonder why that is?

Were you told an end date when they rang you first? Still waiting for my contract in post.

DesertCreat_15

I can't recall that tbh, one of the girls that also has an open end contract was verbally given an end date but she can't remember it either ! :P

Technocentral

DesertCreat_15 wrote: »

I can't recall that tbh, one of the girls that also has an open end contract was verbally given an end date but she can't remember it either ! :P

I was but would be nice if the contract dates were open!

boobar

barneystinson wrote: »

Statutory entitlement is all well and good, but you need an employer who will facilitate you in taking it. The PS is much more accommodating in this regard, generally speaking!

Again it depends on which area of the public service.

My wife works as a nurse and has been told informally not to even apply for parental leave as they're short staffed.

boobar

bulmersgal wrote: »

Thanks for that, I'm on lookout for job after getting a first in my accounting and finance degree. Would like a job that is mainly 9-5 as it's just me and my daughter so I don't want to be working mad hours in a job and missing out seeing my daughter as she's only 4.

Go for it. Your kid won't be small forever.

You can always keep your options open for higher grade positions if they come up in the future.

Best of luck.

ezra_pound

barneystinson wrote: »

Statutory entitlement is all well and good, but you need an employer who will facilitate you in taking it. The PS is much more accommodating in this regard, generally speaking!

By law your employer can only refuse parental leave twice. The third time it is applied for it must be accepted by the employer. I agree with you though the PS/cs would often be easier to deal with than other employers in this respect.

ezra_pound

boobar wrote: »

Again it depends on which area of the public service.

My wife works as a nurse and has been told informally not to even apply for parental leave as they're short staffed.

Yes. The conception that staff friendly hr initiatives are easily agreed on in the PS is not really the case these days. Managers won't let staff take career breaks or shorter working year etc etc in many cases as most offices are under major staffing pressure.

All the same, the law is the law, and your friend must be allowed to take parental leave on her third attempt to find suitable dates with management.

Rorster_123

barneystinson wrote: »

My boss started her career in the civil service as a CO straight out of college as a stopgap to pay the bills, and she was a PO by the age of 30. There'll be plenty of opportunities for people who come into the service as CO's from this competition; you only need to look at the demographic of the civil service to see that...

Not exactly possible. CO to EO to HEO to AP to PO in less than 10 years. You are talking rubbish.You have to be out of probation before you can apply for the next grade and competitions are rare these days.

FloatingVoter

^ Finance and Revenue were recruiting graduate HEOs in the late 90s. Most left to find better private sector jobs. Any who stayed could easily have jumped the two grades required for PO in 8 years.
Those two facts were related at some idiotic borefest union meeting in the Gresham by John Leamy (Asst. Secretary Revenue back in 2002).
My own experience when I resigned from Revenue was that the PO dealing with my paperwork in the castle wasn't much older than me. I'd have clocked her as back then at 35 max.

Rorster_123

FloatingVoter wrote: »

^ Finance and Revenue were recruiting graduate HEOs in the late 90s. Most left to find better private sector jobs. Any who stayed could easily have jumped the two grades required for PO in 8 years.
Those two facts were related at some idiotic borefest union meeting in the Gresham by John Leamy (Asst. Secretary Revenue back in 2002).
My own experience when I resigned from Revenue was that the PO dealing with my paperwork in the castle wasn't much older than me. I'd have clocked her as back then at 35 max.

Yeah but if you read his post its from CO not HEO. Big difference.

barneystinson

Rorster_123 wrote: »

Not exactly possible. CO to EO to HEO to AP to PO in less than 10 years. You are talking rubbish.You have to be out of probation before you can apply for the next grade and competitions are rare these days.

CO to AO to AP to PO. Doable in less than 10 years.

(If you want you can PM me and I'll give you a name.)

the_syco

Not sure to select if I live in Dublin or not? I live in Leixlip, and thus Dublin is in my back yard, but at the same time I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

Can someone recommend what counties have the largest cluster of computers & servers, apart from Dublin? Will hopefully go into the IT tech support side, and thus want to apply for counties where I'll have a decent chance of this.

starlit

I'd imagine be Dublin would have the most as most of those departments the Headquarters are in Dublin. Kildare, Meath, or Louth might be an option? Kildare might suit you? Its hard to decide when there is the option of three regions.

gazzer

the_syco wrote: »

Not sure to select if I live in Dublin or not? I live in Leixlip, and thus Dublin is in my back yard, but at the same time I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

Can someone recommend what counties have the largest cluster of computers & servers, apart from Dublin? Will hopefully go into the IT tech support side, and thus want to apply for counties where I'll have a decent chance of this.

Do you have an option to apply for the IT Tech Support Side. Usually in these competitions if successful you just get placed where there is a vacccany.

Rorster_123

the_syco wrote: »

Not sure to select if I live in Dublin or not? I live in Leixlip, and thus Dublin is in my back yard, but at the same time I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

Can someone recommend what counties have the largest cluster of computers & servers, apart from Dublin? Will hopefully go into the IT tech support side, and thus want to apply for counties where I'll have a decent chance of this.

IT used to be a seperate exam (CO Programmer, CO Operator and EO Analyst). These posts were restricted to serving civil servants. Generally you would not be assigned to IT from an open CO exam in the Civil Service but this may not be the case in the HSE and Councils.

InReality

Rorster_123 wrote: »

IT used to be a seperate exam (CO Programmer, CO Operator and EO Analyst). These posts were restricted to serving civil servants. Generally you would not be assigned to IT from an open CO exam in the Civil Service but this may not be the case in the HSE and Councils.

You can always ask. You most likely be assigned to a general service area initally , but if you keep asking you could move after maybe a year or 2.
At least thats happened where I work , its one of the bigger depts mind.

gazzer

Rorster_123 wrote: »

IT used to be a seperate exam (CO Programmer, CO Operator and EO Analyst). These posts were restricted to serving civil servants. Generally you would not be assigned to IT from an open CO exam in the Civil Service but this may not be the case in the HSE and Councils.

Yeah that is how I got to work in IT within the Civil Service.

number13

I persume the competition will be fierce. Anyone have a link for stage one of the recruitment? 21k is not great money but it is a secure job and wages do go up yearly. I done my degree part time while working full time and I would be taking a pay cut if sucessful but im cross that bridge if I come ti it. A previous poster stated that monthly he earns about 1500 per month that about 375 a month ????

McSween

number13 wrote: »

I persume the competition will be fierce. Anyone have a link for stage one of the recruitment? 21k is not great money but it is a secure job and wages do go up yearly. I done my degree part time while working full time and I would be taking a pay cut if sucessful but im cross that bridge if I come ti it. A previous poster stated that monthly he earns about 1500 per month that about 375 a month ????

Around 379 yeah. But it seems you get 409 if you have worked in civil service before. My contract says 409.

Naggins

redout wrote: »

If you mean the AO positions then there was already a few of them competitions at the end of last year (first recruitment in several years) so no guarantee there will be more anytime soon. Not all of them people have been put in jobs yet afaik.

General query, what are the AO streams other than Law and Economics?

InReality

There was a HR one as well I think.

Spanish Eyes

Best of luck to everyone applying.

I'm older and bolder now, and just want to say that I am a lifer in the CS.

I started way back as a CO with LC only. University was only a dream for the working class back then!

I then got EO, then HEO, and am now AP1.

I could apply for PO but I've decided to retire early and live the dream.

It was a fantastic career. It could not be faulted, despite all the anti PS bashing that goes on. My Department funded my night degree in UCD, and various other courses through the years.

So go for it. It might take a while to progress up the ranks, but sooner or later recruitment and promotions will pick up.

There will be lots of retirements come June 2015 when the grace period for the Haddington Road Agreement expires. And there are lots of people like me taking early retirement too.

In some ways I wish I was starting out again. It was a great adventure, and I learned such a lot. Ah here...I'm getting misty eyed now!

weadick

Beware that this competition is to fill PASO 3 places in various prisons around the country too. This is arguably the worst entry level job there is (or ever was) in the public service and you'll be doing it for far less money than those who went before you. You have been warned.

barneystinson

weadick wrote: »

Beware that this competition is to fill PASO 3 places in various prisons around the country too. This is arguably the worst entry level job there is (or ever was) in the public service and you'll be doing it for far less money than those who went before you. You have been warned.

It's not just to fill those jobs though, and people can find out about a particular job when they're offered it and say no thanks if they don't want it!

Technocentral

weadick wrote: »

Beware that this competition is to fill PASO 3 places in various prisons around the country too. This is arguably the worst entry level job there is (or ever was) in the public service and you'll be doing it for far less money than those who went before you. You have been warned.

The aplication states Dept of Expenditure & Reform?

Kimbot

weadick wrote: »

Beware that this competition is to fill PASO 3 places in various prisons around the country too. This is arguably the worst entry level job there is (or ever was) in the public service and you'll be doing it for far less money than those who went before you. You have been warned.

Sorry but the PASO grades are not linked to General Service grades in the Civil Service. If they want to fill PASO slots then they will run a PASO competition.

Kimbot

the_syco wrote: »

Not sure to select if I live in Dublin or not? I live in Leixlip, and thus Dublin is in my back yard, but at the same time I don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

Can someone recommend what counties have the largest cluster of computers & servers, apart from Dublin? Will hopefully go into the IT tech support side, and thus want to apply for counties where I'll have a decent chance of this.

Revenue on John's Road is a large data centre now, on your bus route and all.

another question

weadick wrote: »

Beware that this competition is to fill PASO 3 places in various prisons around the country too. This is arguably the worst entry level job there is (or ever was) in the public service and you'll be doing it for far less money than those who went before you. You have been warned.

What makes it the worst entry level job there is (in your opinion)?

irishfeen

Put through the application form this morning for this - any idea how many places they plan to fill?

weadick

jonny24ie wrote: »

Sorry but the PASO grades are not linked to General Service grades in the Civil Service. If they want to fill PASO slots then they will run a PASO competition.

Did you read the information booklet? It says clearly that the competition is for PASO's also.

This competition is to fill places in the civil and public service, not just civil service.