Clerical Positions in the Civil and Public Service

The_Conductor

gonzo.phd wrote: »

Thanks for this, really helpful and has given me a glimmer of hope that I might have scraped by the error checking.

Just one other question, is the original questionnaire a simple pass/fail usually?

Yes- if/when you do get in, you'll find its used in the internal competitions too. Its a way of weeding down very large numbers of candidates, down to a manageable cohort of applicants that they can actually work with.

Its not really fair- if you're good at those sorts of tests- you might ace it- whereas someone else who just isn't that good at those sorts of tests- might have great difficulty ever getting through.......

There is never going to be a perfect process/procedure- that is equally fair to everyone.

The way maths are discarded is just nuts though in my opinion- especially in today's world- surely the civil service needs people who are good with figures?

jaffusmax

It says in the the pre test handbook you may be brought in for a supervised test. Not that you will. Where are u getting this information? @The_Conductor

The_Conductor

jaffusmax wrote: »

It says in the the pre test handbook you may be brought in for a supervised test. Not that you will. Where are u getting this information? @The_Conductor

Its standard- its what they've been doing recently. In some cases (think the recent HEO exams for example)- they brought several thousand candidates in for the supervised testing (over the course of 2-3 months). Several sessions a day were run- for 10-12 weeks.

Technocentral

Why is there such an emphasis on maths though? I’m working  as a TCO  and its verbal reasoning and especially error checking  that is the most important elements to what I’m doing on  a daily basis, the maths part is done with a calculator and you have loads of time to do that, being a maths wizard is the least of the necessary skills.  

paul64

How long did the whole test take?

FloatingVoter

Technocentral wrote: »

Why is there such an emphasis on maths though? I’m working as a TCO and its verbal reasoning and especially error checking that is the most important elements to what I’m doing on a daily basis, the maths part is done with a calculator and you have loads of time to do that, being a maths wizard is the least of the necessary skills.

True, I spent 3 years in Revenue (more than 10 years ago but it can't have changed much). Spotting errors on Form 12s, people who the computer told you were born in 1874 (clearly it should have been 1974), were the thinking part of the job. Calculating a tax liability or refund were done by calculator / computer and the aim was to be precise and correct - speed was the source of errors not the solution.

Naggins

How long was the test? What are people's experience of it? Hate these tests!

Divisadero

The Public Service is a monster with CO's doing different work depending on where they are placed. The first office I worked in had little need for maths skills. The second more so but it was still basic and of course computers do the maths for you in most cases. We are applying as CO's not engineers.

But to be honest I don't think exact relevance to the job is a big concern for the PAS when testing all of this is just a way to reduce the numbers. Although if the maths is as hard as some are saying I think they may have gone a bit too far this time!! That may be more to do with this being Saville's standard numerical reasoning test. The last test I did was run by the PAS and it didn't get much harder than percentages. I am very weak at maths but just practised and did very well overall. This may be a different animal though.

Anyway I am putting myself to the sword this afternoon and then I shall put it behind me.

alwaysadub

Anyone know if they will actually give you your results or will it just be that you passed or failed ?

gerbilgranny

FloatingVoter wrote: »

True, I spent 3 years in Revenue (more than 10 years ago but it can't have changed much). Spotting errors on Form 12s, people who the computer told you were born in 1874 (clearly it should have been 1974), were the thinking part of the job. Calculating a tax liability or refund were done by calculator / computer and the aim was to be precise and correct - speed was the source of errors not the solution.

You mustn't have been answering calls on the 1890 service, where one needs to be able to explain to taxpayers what tax they will pay/should be paying, and why underpayments arose. There's only so much that a calculator can do..

The_Conductor

Technocentral wrote: »

Why is there such an emphasis on maths though? I’m working  as a TCO  and its verbal reasoning and especially error checking  that is the most important elements to what I’m doing on  a daily basis, the maths part is done with a calculator and you have loads of time to do that, being a maths wizard is the least of the necessary skills.  

It really depends on the section you find yourself in, many sections may have little if any use or need of good maths skills- in others it may be imperative.

If you think the current exams are bad- I have the several years worth of the actual exams they made COs and EOs do back in the 1930s here (found them while cleaning out an old cabinet). They're nuts.

FloatingVoter

gerbilgranny wrote: »

You mustn't have been answering calls on the 1890 service, where one needs to be able to explain to taxpayers what tax they will pay/should be paying, and why underpayments arose. There's only so much that a calculator can do..

Of course I was (main reason for resigning). Calculators can work out percentages quickly. And anybody that handled an over/under payment was meant to leave the calculation on the system ie. proofing the repayment/underpayment. Of course not everybody did that which is when being able to calculate fast came in. Even though the 1890 line was pressurised it did not require you to work at warp speed. You could usually string along the customer with relevant questions and small talk giving yourself a good minute or two to arrive at an explanation.

swht

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Of course I was (main reason for resigning). Calculators can work out percentages quickly. And anybody that handled an over/under payment was meant to leave the calculation on the system ie. proofing the repayment/underpayment. Of course not everybody did that which is when being able to calculate fast came in. Even though the 1890 line was pressurised it did not require you to work at warp speed. You could usually string along the customer with relevant questions and small talk giving yourself a good minute or two to arrive at an explanation.

To be fair in these tests you used a calculator too so probably fairly true to practice.

paul64

roughly how long does it take to do this test?

swht

paul64 wrote: »

roughly how long does it take to do this test?

Took me about an hour taking my time between tests.

paul64

gonzo.phd wrote: »

Took me about an hour taking my time between tests.

Thank you for your reply:)

h_orse

Took me just a little over an hour, thought the questions was geared at sucking you in a little bit and then your time had run out.

Job would be better then my current position €320 / week for 40 hours

puma90

Just did the aptitude test there...hard enuf...such Long passages to read then u only hav like a minute to answer 4 questions...favourite part was the error checking...very different from the practice tests...and then when your finished it doesnt tell you your finished..u just logout

Bungalow Bill

Am having trouble seeing where exactly you can do practice tests on the Saville Consulting page, can anyone help direct me please?

FloatingVoter

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

Am having trouble seeing where exactly you can do practice tests on the Saville Consulting page, can anyone help direct me please?

https://www.savilleconsulting.com/comprehension-practice

That should get you there.

Bungalow Bill

FloatingVoter wrote: »

https://www.savilleconsulting.com/comprehension-practice

That should get you there.

Thanks, I found that page alright, but wasn't sure where to go after this? I tried 'training', but could find the practice tests..

ruadh

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

Thanks, I found that page alright, but wasn't sure where to go after this? I tried 'training', but could find the practice tests..

That brings you directly to the page you need. The box that's headed, 'Comprehension Aptitude Range Practice Tests' has all three practice tests. The box below has the preparation guides. Don't navigate away from that page.

Bungalow Bill

ruadh wrote: »

That brings you directly to the page you need. The box that's headed, 'Comprehension Aptitude Range Practice Tests' has all three practice tests. The box below has the preparation guides. Don't navigate away from that page.

Ah, sorry, Safari was opening it in a really weird way that only showed me giant menu options, looks good in Chrome, thanks for the help.

scabo33

Just completed it. Found it ok. Time pressure is serious but if you practice you will be fine.

Working as a TCO but might as well forget about any position in this thing, far too competitive and political.

StaticNoise

Just done.

35-40 minutes approximately. Verbal was fine, and not too tricky. Numerical was crazy hard (percentages got me badly, not many ratios came up, either). The error checking was fine, but you might get stuck for time on the final one.

starlit

davydoc wrote: »

Just curious, when is the closing date for part 2. When is the last time you can log on and do it ?

I got thursday 31st of july.

I'm not sure of what is required pass rate for each test and overall pass rate is.

When will results be out a weeks time? or do supervised test be in next few weeks?

No doubt there be presentations but other levels for AO would not sure about EO level.

davydoc

I actually think that, once the last person has done their tests, we won't have too long to wait. Sure the answers etc. Are all stored on the computer, so, surely should be just a matter of hitting a couple of buttons....I'll not be holding my breath anyway...lol

InReality

The_Conductor wrote: »

It really depends on the section you find yourself in, many sections may have little if any use or need of good maths skills- in others it may be imperative.

If you think the current exams are bad- I have the several years worth of the actual exams they made COs and EOs do back in the 1930s here (found them while cleaning out an old cabinet). They're nuts.

What are those old tests like ? I'd be interested in that sort of history

RobbingBandit

Seems it won't open in safari as it needs flash support.

***HAPPYDAYS***

I did the test today - I really got caught for time on the error checking ! Did anyone else find this part tough , I don't even think I got 40-50% complete in that section !
I'd say my chances are well and truely over now