Clerical Positions in the Civil and Public Service

FloatingVoter

Revenue COs used to be Tax Officers. About 2002 the grades were merged into the general rankings.

TO = CO
Higher Tax Officer = EO
Tax Inspector = HEO

A tax officer made more on day 1 than the equivalent clerical officer in other departments. And you had to do the phones.....oh...the bloody 1890 number. All those happy taxpayers.;)

jobseekr1

I am in my early thirties, out of college ten years, and worked for most of the time in the private sector.
My concern is that I may be perceived as being too ‘old’ for this sort of role, purely because I would imagine many CO’s would have joined straight after college or school.
Am I wrong to think that ‘seniority’ is the be all and end all when it comes to promotion in this sort of role?
Also, can those not working in the service realistically get in at the middling grades or realistically, if you can’t show you joined a day after college/school are you wasting your time?
How likely are EO roles likely to come up? And how can one demonstrate relevant private sector experience to enter the service at the that grade?
My issue is I would have to take a major pay drop to enter this level, and similar to Shoestring, I would be doing so with the intention of moving on/going for potential promotion in time, and would like to think there would the chance of increasing salary etc.
If people could advise? I am very interested in the fact that the service is recruiting again, it is a positive sign, but there are pros and cons too. Many thanks.
Also, I am I right in thinking an AO salary scale begins at circa 30k and EO slight less?
Is there any sort of a public sector tax calculator online that allows one to check for increased levies that public servants pay etc?

Divisadero

Age is not an issue as you will be working for the state so they have to be very careful about discrimination. There was a guy in my office who joined about 8 years before retirement. You should have a good chance if you do well in the exams. AO is a higher grade than EO not too different from HEO. They are really after recent graduates here but I know of at least one older person getting hired. But with CO and EO age is certainly not an issue. However if you want to apply for CO you have missed the deadline. Hopefully there wil be an EO comp later this year.

Gongoozler

EO doesn't start at just under 30, around 23 or 25 as far as I remember. 25 is before 2011 I think. Not sure. But definitely doesn't start at just under 30.

sillysocks

Had a look at the scales there, EO is approx 27.5k and AO 29.9k.
Jobseeker1 I'd be much the same as you, would hope to get in as eo or ao based on my experience but not sure if it happens. In as a TcO now to try get a bit of experience as my company closed a few months ago and made me redundant.

cocaholic

Is an EO competition going to be open for those outside the public sector? Thought AO, CO and Third Secretary in addition to specialists were the only entry level grades. I'm currently a TCO. I can see many really good CO's who have been in the Department for many years and havent been promoted to EO, so I woudn't bet on promotion happening quickly as some hope and think.

jjnaas

sillysocks wrote: »

Had a look at the scales there, EO is approx 27.5k and AO 29.9k.
Jobseeker1 I'd be much the same as you, would hope to get in as eo or ao based on my experience but not sure if it happens. In as a TcO now to try get a bit of experience as my company closed a few months ago and made me redundant.

I'm a TCO at the moment too. My EO told me that EO used to be graduate entry position before the recession. Ppl fresh out of college got it.Not sure really as all EOs here are in their 50s and
came in as COs out of school.

Also 80% of the TCOs here are over 35. Most of them 40+. 2 are college age.

I would guess myself that this CO competition will also attract a lot of older people. In my office there's 500 staff and I haven't seen any permanent staff under 30.

jjnaas

cocaholic wrote: »

Is an EO competition going to be open for those outside the public sector? Thought AO, CO and Third Secretary in addition to specialists were the only entry level grades. I'm currently a TCO. I can see many really good CO's who have been in the Department for many years and havent been promoted to EO, so I woudn't bet on promotion happening quickly as some hope and think.

Just to add to my previous post that I agree with this. Vast majority of COs never get promoted. There's a few real toppers here who've been COs for 20 odd years and most of them won't get promoted. It's a numbers game.
I think a lot of ppl who applied for the CO competition have intentions of climbing the ranks quickly but as above this is the real exception and not something to be pinning yer hopes on.

sillysocks

There are sample aptitude tests on the public jobs site. Decided to try a numerical one last night just to see, and was shocked when it came back with my results it also said that the 'pass' mark for the test was to get 8 out of 32 right! Surely that's a ridiculously low 'pass' mark?

Divisadero

As I said in previous posts just passing the test will not get you a job. There will be many applying for each vacancy and you will be ranked. So to have a good chance of an offer you need to do really well in the tests. Things may have changed but when I interviewed for CO I really got the impression that it was more a formality than a competitive interview. But without a high score in the tests I would not even have got an interview. My advice is to take the tests (questionnaire and aptitude) seriously as in my opinion they are the most important part of the process.

another question

Would anyone recommend the Career Services prep day for the online appitude next Saturday - it's €80 for 4 hours and a lot of take - home material. I know that a lot of people highly praise CS for their mature nursing prep days.

yenom

I would imagine it's the same as the Advice Centre on Publicjobs.ie

Zipppy

jjnaas wrote: »

I'm a TCO at the moment too. My EO told me that EO used to be graduate entry position before the recession. Ppl fresh out of college got it.Not sure really as all EOs here are in their 50s and
came in as COs out of school.

Also 80% of the TCOs here are over 35. Most of them 40+. 2 are college age.

I would guess myself that this CO competition will also attract a lot of older people. In my office there's 500 staff and I haven't seen any permanent staff under 30.

A recent report stated that in the civil service....
44% of staff are over 50
72% are over 40
And only 3% are under 30

Ageing workforce .........

Divisadero

Yes indeed. One factor is that they haven't been able to hire in real numbers in years. Another and this is just a theory is that jobs like a CO were not very attractive to young people during the height of the Celtic Tiger. There were higher paid jobs out there and in more appealing (dare I say glamorous) fields. Job security and a better pension isn't always a priority for someone straight out of school or college. At least not during a boom. My boss told me that during the Tiger years some CO's would leave the Civil Service within a week or two of starting. Some may have regretted their decision to leave the dreary old Civil Service when the recession hit. Others probably never looked back!

starlit

Wow that's interesting. Thought now there be a mix of age groups by now but true not many under 30 and under 40 in the Civil/public service.

K4t

Majority of interviewees yesterday for the TCO positions were late 20s and 30s/40s.

alwaysadub

Anyone got any idea of when they are likely to start the first lot of tests? Going away next week and will have limited internet, don't want to miss it though!

starlit

Will probably get an email this week but deadline might not be for another few days or week. Could be a few days or weeks waiting to do tests though.

Diddlina

so the first round is online tests and i'm guessing you get graded accordingly. does anyone know what comes next or how they assign people to various roles?

daithi84

I was one of the last people to be recruited in the public service for CO and that was 6 years ago. I was 22 at the time. I will be 30 this at the end of the year. Before the pay cuts and tax increases it was possible to live off the starting entry point wage. It was around 24k when i started. But the last few years have been terrible. My wages dropped significantly and those famous increments are only worth between €2-€5 a week after tax, so dont be getting excited for them. You will be expected to the same work as people who are paid 2 or 3 times your salary so you will have to aware of what jobs are not for your grade and make sure the people who are being paid more are doing their fair share of the work before you do it. I was lucky at the time i got the job as it was a permanent job, at the moment i am in the my last year of college and trying to get out of here. I feel like i have become totally institutionalised and need to venture out a bit. I wouldn't feel so down about the job if there were promotions and ways of making a career out of it but there is nothing, no motivation or reward or praise of any kind. When promotions do finally come up you will be competing with every other CO in the place aswell as non public servants so it will be tricky to even get the promotion.

Divisadero

Diddlina re the process if you have the time there is info already on the thread. I put a post on here dated the 27/06 at 12.35 with the process as it used to be. There is no guarantee that it will be the same this time but it should at least be similar. I see that the company advertising the course are suggesting that the actual aptitude tests (not just the questionnaire) might be online this time and it was mentioned as a possible option (amongst others) in the PAS info booklet. I don't know how they could do that fairly but it would speed things up and save them time and money. You will have to wait and see!

Fooker

Does anyone expect there to be an AO competition anytime soon?

Also, if one were to be hired as a CO can they enter into the AO competition?

Malarkey101

Divisadero wrote: »

Diddlina re the process if you have the time there is info already on the thread. I put a post on here dated the 27/06 at 12.35 with the process as it used to be. There is no guarantee that it will be the same this time but it should at least be similar. I see that the company advertising the course are suggesting that the actual aptitude tests (not just the questionnaire) might be online this time and it was mentioned as a possible option (amongst others) in the PAS info booklet. I don't know how they could do that fairly but it would speed things up and save them time and money. You will have to wait and see!

These days a lot of the competitions run by pas has you first do the aptitude tests online and then as part of the next stage do them again in a supervised environment and any large differences between the 2 tests would also knock you out of the competition

Diddlina

Divisadero wrote: »

Diddlina re the process if you have the time there is info already on the thread. I put a post on here dated the 27/06 at 12.35 with the process as it used to be. There is no guarantee that it will be the same this time but it should at least be similar. I see that the company advertising the course are suggesting that the actual aptitude tests (not just the questionnaire) might be online this time and it was mentioned as a possible option (amongst others) in the PAS info booklet. I don't know how they could do that fairly but it would speed things up and save them time and money. You will have to wait and see!

cheers! That was helpful at least I know a bit more what to expect and I best get practicing the aptitude tests.

hattoncracker

Hi guys. New to the thread. I applied for a CO position online about three weeks ago and I haven't heard anything yet.

Has anyone heard anything yet about it? Just touching base here. Thanks a mill!

K4t

Nothing yet.

Dothehustle

Fooker wrote: »

Does anyone expect there to be an AO competition anytime soon?

Also, if one were to be hired as a CO can they enter into the AO competition?

havent a clue if there will be a AO competition soon
but yes any one can go for it

barneystinson

Fooker wrote: »

Does anyone expect there to be an AO competition anytime soon?

Also, if one were to be hired as a CO can they enter into the AO competition?

http://www.pseu.ie/_fileupload/circulars%202014/bc03514.pdf

gerbilgranny

barneystinson wrote: »

So the upcoming EO competition will be a great opportunity for them!

Will it? (i.e. a great opportunity for COs currently working in taxes in Revenue).

I wish I could share your optimism.

darragh o meara

another question wrote: »

Would anyone recommend the Career Services prep day for the online appitude next Saturday - it's €80 for 4 hours and a lot of take - home material. I know that a lot of people highly praise CS for their mature nursing prep days.

I done their course for the Ambulance service a few years back and found it to be excellent preparation for the test. I was pretty good at them anyway but they went into detail about the Interview which was helpful too.

denlaw

barneystinson wrote: »

43 is the hours of attendance, the working week is a 37-hour week.

How does that work?

InReality

Dothehustle wrote: »

havent a clue if there will be a AO competition soon
but yes any one can go for it

If its an external/open competition .

luckyboy

denlaw wrote: »

How does that work?

The 43 hours assumes a lunch break of 1 hour 10 minutes per day for each of the 5 days in the week. This doesn't count towards your 37 hours of work requirement. As the minimum lunch break is 30 minutes, it would be possible to only "attend" for 39.5 hours and get your 37 hours of work done. Equally, if you took the maximum of 2 hours lunch, you'd need to "attend" for 47 hours to get your 37 hours of work done ...

denlaw

luckyboy wrote: »

The 43 hours assumes a lunch break of 1 hour 10 minutes per day for each of the 5 days in the week. This doesn't count towards your 37 hours of work requirement. As the minimum lunch break is 30 minutes, it would be possible to only "attend" for 39.5 hours and get your 37 hours of work done. Equally, if you took the maximum of 2 hours lunch, you'd need to "attend" for 47 hours to get your 37 hours of work done ...

Do you have to take the hr and 10 for lunch or could you put it towards going home early on a Friday if you only took half an hr Monday till Thursday?

You'd think I had the job ;-)

barneystinson

gerbilgranny wrote: »

Will it? (i.e. a great opportunity for COs currently working in taxes in Revenue).

I wish I could share your optimism.

Well, you've already explained yourself why CO's from Revenue should be strong candidates, if the following is true:

gerbilgranny wrote: »

Many many COs employed in the taxes section of Revenue do work which is significantly more 'complicated' than average Clerical Officer work.

They should therefore find it easy to demonstrate the required competences, don't you think?

barneystinson

denlaw wrote: »

Do you have to take the hr and 10 for lunch or could you put it towards going home early on a Friday if you only took half an hr Monday till Thursday?

You'd think I had the job ;-)

If you read his reply again you'll see he's already answered that! You need to brush up on your verbal reasoning!

luckyboy

denlaw wrote: »

Do you have to take the hr and 10 for lunch or could you put it towards going home early on a Friday if you only took half an hr Monday till Thursday?

You'd think I had the job ;-)

No, you don't have to take the full hour and 10 for lunch. You can take as little as 30 mins or as much as 2 hours (lunchtime band spans the period 12.30-2.30pm) ...

The_Conductor

jjnaas wrote: »

I'm a TCO at the moment too. My EO told me that EO used to be graduate entry position before the recession. Ppl fresh out of college got it.Not sure really as all EOs here are in their 50s and
came in as COs out of school.

Also 80% of the TCOs here are over 35. Most of them 40+. 2 are college age.

I would guess myself that this CO competition will also attract a lot of older people. In my office there's 500 staff and I haven't seen any permanent staff under 30.

During the boom years- EO was defacto graduate recruitment level- though technically the graduate recruitment grade is AO (which is quite similar to a HEO role, only it tends to involve more research type roles, and you tend to have less staff reporting to you). Once upon a time AOs were fast tracked for AP- but this seems to have fallen by the wayside.

jjnaas wrote: »

Just to add to my previous post that I agree with this. Vast majority of COs never get promoted. There's a few real toppers here who've been COs for 20 odd years and most of them won't get promoted. It's a numbers game.
I think a lot of ppl who applied for the CO competition have intentions of climbing the ranks quickly but as above this is the real exception and not something to be pinning yer hopes on.

The vast majority of people don't get promoted. The last internal EO to HEO competitions had almost 60 candidates for each post on offer. There are very few recruitment posts.

There is an internal CO to EO competition coming up- which frankly is the first one in years. Any COs who have any ambition will go for it. A lot of people do get set in their ways though- and may be happy enough as they are- so you might be surprised at a lower number of candidates than you might otherwise expect.

sillysocks wrote: »

There are sample aptitude tests on the public jobs site. Decided to try a numerical one last night just to see, and was shocked when it came back with my results it also said that the 'pass' mark for the test was to get 8 out of 32 right! Surely that's a ridiculously low 'pass' mark?

The maths test is a lot harder than the sample test. Your main enemy tends to be time. That said- it is set at a very low level. It was seen as an equal opportunity attempt- as traditionally men were more likely to have taken maths at a higher level in their leaving certs than women. Also- its a pass mark- it doesn't go towards your overall grade for the set of exams- you have to get the 8 (or whatever) out of the 32, before they even look at the other exams. If you get the 8- its discarded, and your scored solely on the other tests.

Its an exclusion measure- aka- if you are incapable of getting 8 out of 32- you are automatically discarded from the process.

Divisadero wrote: »

As I said in previous posts just passing the test will not get you a job. There will be many applying for each vacancy and you will be ranked. So to have a good chance of an offer you need to do really well in the tests. Things may have changed but when I interviewed for CO I really got the impression that it was more a formality than a competitive interview. But without a high score in the tests I would not even have got an interview. My advice is to take the tests (questionnaire and aptitude) seriously as in my opinion they are the most important part of the process.

Lastest external competitions in general have over 100 candidates per post filled. The online test is the first exclusion measure- on which well over half of the candidates fall- if you pass these- you may be brought in for formal supervised testing- which another half will fall on- and from the remainder- a pass mark is determined, sufficient to interview enough candidates to meet the capacity of the organisation to interview them- and from this cohort- of those who pass the interview- they are ranked in order of their performance at interview (the online test scores etc will have been discarded).

The various stages of the process- are the only things that matter- at those particular stages. You need to pass the aptitude tests. You need to pass the supervised exams. You need to pass the interviews. Once you pass a stage- its over- and no longer counted. At the end of the entire process- the interview will have gotten you the job, if you're successful- but you'll have had to pass the other stages.

Divisadero wrote: »

Yes indeed. One factor is that they haven't been able to hire in real numbers in years. Another and this is just a theory is that jobs like a CO were not very attractive to young people during the height of the Celtic Tiger. There were higher paid jobs out there and in more appealing (dare I say glamorous) fields. Job security and a better pension isn't always a priority for someone straight out of school or college. At least not during a boom. My boss told me that during the Tiger years some CO's would leave the Civil Service within a week or two of starting. Some may have regretted their decision to leave the dreary old Civil Service when the recession hit. Others probably never looked back!

From about 2000 onwards- there was a policy of only replacing 1 in 6 or 1 in 8 employees (who retired or left etc), except in exceptional circumstances (which would require specific sanction to be filled). This was well before the boom really took off. The civil service became quite slim in numbers. Its probably a little less than 30,000 strong now (and this includes prison officers etc).

Diddlina wrote: »

so the first round is online tests and i'm guessing you get graded accordingly. does anyone know what comes next or how they assign people to various roles?

After the online tests- those who meet the required standard- are brought in for supervised tests. If you do not get a similar score in the supervised exams (aka if it differs markedly)- you are out of the process.

daithi84 wrote: »

I was one of the last people to be recruited in the public service for CO and that was 6 years ago. I was 22 at the time. I will be 30 this at the end of the year. Before the pay cuts and tax increases it was possible to live off the starting entry point wage. It was around 24k when i started. But the last few years have been terrible. My wages dropped significantly and those famous increments are only worth between €2-€5 a week after tax, so dont be getting excited for them. You will be expected to the same work as people who are paid 2 or 3 times your salary so you will have to aware of what jobs are not for your grade and make sure the people who are being paid more are doing their fair share of the work before you do it. I was lucky at the time i got the job as it was a permanent job, at the moment i am in the my last year of college and trying to get out of here. I feel like i have become totally institutionalised and need to venture out a bit. I wouldn't feel so down about the job if there were promotions and ways of making a career out of it but there is nothing, no motivation or reward or praise of any kind. When promotions do finally come up you will be competing with every other CO in the place aswell as non public servants so it will be tricky to even get the promotion.

Unfortunately- my own experiences are broadly similar to yours.
I had lots of wonderful ideas about how I'd progress. It hasn't happened.

Fooker wrote: »

Does anyone expect there to be an AO competition anytime soon?

Also, if one were to be hired as a CO can they enter into the AO competition?

Anyone can enter any external competition. There are no restrictions on internal candidates entering external competitions.

thisNthat

What seems to be the biggest obstacles in getting promotion in the public service? Is it qualifications or lack of? Too many applications for any advertised job?

I don't mean that to sound patronising but I'm just wondering why someone would stay in a job when after many years it didn't work out to be what they thought it would be?
especially when the years of experience in that job would be a great advantage in getting another job in other areas bar the public sector? Probably with better pay and promotional opportunities?

Just curious

The_Conductor wrote: »

Unfortunately- my own experiences are broadly similar to yours.
I had lots of wonderful ideas about how I'd progress. It hasn't happened.

The_Conductor

thisNthat wrote: »

What seems to be the biggest obstacles in getting promotion in the public service? Is it qualifications or lack of? Too many applications for any advertised job?

I don't mean that to sound patronising but I'm just wondering why someone would stay in a job when after many years it didn't work out to be what they thought it would be?
especially when the years of experience in that job would be a great advantage in getting another job in other areas bar the public sector? Probably with better pay and promotional opportunities?

Just curious

In recent competitions- there has been in excess of 50 applicants for each promotional position. So- the biggest obstacle would be a lack of promotional opportunities.

Some competitions are confined to those holding specific qualifications- and even then, experience may be used to rule candidates out before any other factors are taken into account- recently I was ruled out of a laboratory role- despite holding all the qualifications- because of a lack of experience in the area.

People stay in jobs for years- or even decades- when they get used to the job. Fear of change can be quite remarkable in some people.

Personally- I forewent a promotion- in exchange for a transfer to work in a particular location that was convenient for family life. Aka- I no longer have 3-4 hours a day in the car- and as I have young children- it is time I really appreciate. Money is not the sole reason for doing any particular job- there are other motivating factors- such as proximity to home, family friendly policies etc etc

Different things appeal to different people at different stages in their lives. You don't join the civil service for the money- wait till you see all the deductions you'll face........

At the moment- the civil service is about 70% female, and the average age is in or around 50. It is forseeable there will be a significant number of retirements in the coming years- however they will by an large be at the lower levels- which won't necessarily open positions for promotional prospects.

The main driver for a lot of people- includes the ability to take term time (unpaid summer leave), parental leave when they have young children (once again unpaid), and the flexible working hours that appeal often to those with young families.

People don't join the civil service for the money.

The_Conductor

Divisadero wrote: »

Yes indeed. One factor is that they haven't been able to hire in real numbers in years.

Before the complete embargo- there was a staggered run down in numbers from the late 1990s onwards. By 2000- the policy was to replace 1-in-6. This is why the workforce has aged.........

Divisadero wrote: »

Another and this is just a theory is that jobs like a CO were not very attractive to young people during the height of the Celtic Tiger.

It was seen as a basic level entry position- without much in the way of promotional prospects. Many people had the idea that they would be noticed, and promoted on merit- which unfortunately in an organisation like the civil service, very often is wishful thinking.

Divisadero wrote: »

There were higher paid jobs out there and in more appealing (dare I say glamorous) fields.

Well- there are glamarous fields in the civil service too- some with lots of foreign travel- some with lots of investigative roles etc etc. Lots of technical roles too. In general they don't pay as well as the same roles in the private sector- particularly IT roles.

Divisadero wrote: »

Job security and a better pension isn't always a priority for someone straight out of school or college. At least not during a boom.

Its not necessarily a better pension- because any post 1995 employees have the basic state pension as the significant part of their pension. Aka- after 40 years service you might be entitled to 50% of your final pay- if your final salary is 32k (not unusual for a CO?) half of this is 16k. If the state PRSI pension is 10k (roughly)- this means you get a civil service pension of 6k per annum after 40 years service.

People seem to think the pensions are remarkable in the public sector- for the vast bulk of employees- they aren't. Papers report all the exceptions- not the norms.

Divisadero wrote: »

My boss told me that during the Tiger years some CO's would leave the Civil Service within a week or two of starting. Some may have regretted their decision to leave the dreary old Civil Service when the recession hit. Others probably never looked back!

EOs and AOs walked out too- I'm personally familiar with several. They got far more money in the private sector (esp. those with professional qualifications). Some regretted it- some didn't. Some of those who stayed, were told they were stupid to stay.

Thats life.

Divisadero

thisNthat wrote: »

What seems to be the biggest obstacles in getting promotion in the public service? Is it qualifications or lack of? Too many applications for any advertised job?
I
I don't mean that to sound patronising but I'm just wondering why someone would stay in a job when after many years it didn't work out to be what they thought it would be?
especially when the years of experience in that job would be a great advantage in getting another job in other areas bar the public sector? Probably with better pay and promotional opportunities?

Just curious

People stay for different reasons. Personally I wouldn't say it is a great job but it depends. Try working in a private sector call centre to see what a real crappy working day or night is like! If your career is your whole world and you are dynamic and ambitious I would say look elsewhere. If you want flexibility and you have lots going on outside work it might suit you. Also like any job there is a lot of luck involved as to where you are posted. They are good about paying for study, time off to be with family, career breaks etc. It is probably one of the last bastions of the 'job for life' and although pensions and benefits are constantly eroded they are still far better than what most employees in the private sector can look forward to. I think one of the probs with promotions is that exams are usually involved so your actual experience comes second as once again you have to compete to get a good placing on a panel.

Rorster_123

thisNthat wrote: »

What seems to be the biggest obstacles in getting promotion in the public service? Is it qualifications or lack of? Too many applications for any advertised job?

I don't mean that to sound patronising but I'm just wondering why someone would stay in a job when after many years it didn't work out to be what they thought it would be?
especially when the years of experience in that job would be a great advantage in getting another job in other areas bar the public sector? Probably with better pay and promotional opportunities?

Just curious

Lack of competitions to start with and a lack of posts to be filled. Civil Service is a job now rather than a career. You may have to wait 5 years or more for a competition for the next grade with thousands applying.

sillysocks

So really for anyone who has hopes on eo or ao level the best chance they'll probably have is the competitions for those if they happen rather than thinking of promotin as an option from co anytime soon.

Gongoozler

Look, it really just depends on where you're working. Unless someone here is working in the depr, or whatever department was advertised, no one can tell you how likely anything is. Go for the job for what it is, not for what you could progress to.things change all the time, for better or worse, so you really shouldn't be basing your applying for a job on what someone on the Internet is telling you.

ezra_pound

sillysocks wrote: »

So really for anyone who has hopes on eo or ao level the best chance they'll probably have is the competitions for those if they happen rather than thinking of promotin as an option from co anytime soon.

There will be promotions over the next ten years. The next five years will have very different opportunities to the last five, which have been absolutely hopeless.

The_Conductor

Pure demographics- the average age of current employees- mean there will be recruitment drives again over the next few years- unlike the past 15 years, where competitions were few and far between.

There is a current calm- as a lot of the senior people who were anywhere near retirement age- jumped ship to get pensions based on their previous scales. These positions are now being backfilled- with some external recruitment, some internal promotions etc. However, by and large this cohort has been dealt with (with the exception of the September numbers- which are unlikely to be extended).

A lot of functions previously inhouse- have already been outsourced to a variety of providers and contractors.

Who can tell what the future will bring?

Gareth178

The_Conductor wrote: »

Pure demographics- the average age of current employees- mean there will be recruitment drives again over the next few years- unlike the past 15 years, where competitions were few and far between.

There is a current calm- as a lot of the senior people who were anywhere near retirement age- jumped ship to get pensions based on their previous scales. These positions are now being backfilled- with some external recruitment, some internal promotions etc. However, by and large this cohort has been dealt with (with the exception of the September numbers- which are unlikely to be extended).

A lot of functions previously inhouse- have already been outsourced to a variety of providers and contractors.

Who can tell what the future will bring?

very true... for long time serving civil servants, the upcoming AO/AP/PO competitions (with rumours of internal and interdepartmental HEO competitions across some departments) is very welcome news and regardless of how many are actually placed on panels and subsequently promoted, the fact that the wheels are turning again will raise the general morale (i know it does for me)

Aglomerado

Gareth178 wrote: »

very true... for long time serving civil servants, the upcoming AO/AP/PO competitions (with rumours of internal and interdepartmental HEO competitions across some departments) is very welcome news and regardless of how many are actually placed on panels and subsequently promoted, the fact that the wheels are turning again will raise the general morale (i know it does for me)

For sure. Morale is down the toilet for the last few years. A few promotions will lift the mood (especially if I'm one of the successful candidates! )

gazzer

Gareth178 wrote: »

very true... for long time serving civil servants, the upcoming AO/AP/PO competitions (with rumours of internal and interdepartmental HEO competitions across some departments) is very welcome news and regardless of how many are actually placed on panels and subsequently promoted, the fact that the wheels are turning again will raise the general morale (i know it does for me)

It raises morale for me too. Finally a chance after 10 years to get above EO. It has been so demoralising (especially the last 3 years) to see my work getting eroded away by shared services initiatives to the point that the moment my PO is in charge of 3 totally different areas so I am in the mad situation where one minute I am doing Level 2 Helpdesk work, then I am doing Webmaster duties and then 10 minutes later I might be taking calls on pension entitlements. The sharing around of work has become so haphazzard that nobody knows what they are meant to be doing anymore.