Clerical Positions in the Civil and Public Service

Naggins

sillysocks wrote: »

Its awful Nikki. I'm kind of in the same situation, I'm not a single mother but the cost of childcare means even though I was in the top 5 in my area it would cost me money if I took the job. And while that might be short sighted it's not sustainable to indefinitely be working for a loss. And i wouldn't be convinced that promotion would come very quickly. The starting wages are just too low and I don't know how anyone in Dublin could survive on them!

I will also try the EO competition and that extra few thousand would make a huge difference.
Even once my kids start school it's not going to save me much money - they'd still have to be minded after school if you're working full time and for me that costs 20 eur per day as opposed to 30 for a full day so not much savings there!

Regarding hours, the civil service in general operates by flexi-time. You have to work 7.24 hours a day that can be clocked between 8am and 7pm. You have to take at least a half hour lunch between 12.30 and 2.30, and have to be in the office from 10.00-12.30pm and 2.30-4pm. This means you can come into work at 8 and leave at 4 if you just take the half hour lunch.

One of the best things in the civil service is flexi-time.

sabrinakinsella

€401 per week before the pension and pension remuneration you have to pay along with usc prsi and tax eek!

Donald73

For the ladies thinking of dropping out, I can completely see your point but just to look at it from another angle - if you were to turn down this opportunity now as CO, will it later affect your chances if applying for EO posts (always assuming that EO posts do come up soon which hasn't been confirmed). Could it be a strike against you and would you be restricted from CS panels for 2 years for instance? Could you take a position as CO and work it out as best you can financially and still apply for the EO post later, where your experience in the CS will certainly stand to you? Just something to think about.

To me the flexi time is brilliant when looking at it from a single parent point of view and maybe this fact could help reduce childcare costs as most other office jobs say are 9-5 so you might benefit from the flexi-time too.

gordongekko

Clearly the benefits available in this country needs to be reduced. The pay scale was published before you applied. You are taking away someone else's chance at an interview by going this far to all of a sudden decide it's not worth your while.

The_Conductor

The hours- from the book- are 43 hours, 15 minutes gross, per week (check out the information leaflet)- this is 8 hours 39 per day- the expectation being you clock out for lunch and breaks of 1 hour 15 minutes per day (which is not being properly enforced at the moment- pending integration of the 3 different clocking systems with the next phase of Peoplepoint).

There has been an undertaking that as the emergency legislation which purloined public sector salaries is rescinded, that those on lower salaries, starting at the CO grade- will see their salary cuts reversed first (those at higher grades later). The difference you may experience in your net salary may be as much as over 20%- once the cuts are reversed.

There is also an agreement at Council- to amalgamate the new start payscale with the pre-existing payscale for serving civil servants- which will also see significant benefits for those commencing in the civil service.

You need to look at the bigger picture. There are improvements coming down the road- if you hold up the current salary to decide its not worth your while taking the job- as you'd be shooting yourself in the foot- you are doing yourself no favours.

As for the price of childcare- its an issue- its not an issue specifically for COs- as an EO- my entire salary went on childcare for a few years- we paid the mortgage and somehow lived on my wife's salary (also an EO). It does get better in time- and instead of using it as an issue to turn down jobs- a more proactive approach would be to lobby for changes- to make it tax deductable for example. Childcare is a significant issue for most couples- and is something we need to address.

You are entitled to keep some of your social welfare benefits when you start work (for a period of 3 years- after which you'll have gone up the salary scale somewhat). There are also some payments you may be unlock- such as FIS- that you may not have considered. Finally- the union has a hardship fund, which they often make small payments from towards people experiencing unreasonable hardships. You need to explore all of this- if you are looking solely at your current social welfare income- you will have a very biased picture- working and being a social welfare recipient are two entirely different things..........

Starry12

gordongekko wrote: »

Clearly the benefits available in this country needs to be reduced. The pay scale was published before you applied. You are taking away someone else's chance at an interview by going this far to all of a sudden decide it's not worth your while.

I've become single since the original application. So the fact that it was published before I applied was not relevant then. I agree the benefits need to be reduced but so does the cost of living so that hard working people who want to work can. Thanks for your input.

mariosuarez

I would try hard to make it work. In 15 years when you are at top of salary scale, you will have a good income to pay for your child's college education. A bank or credit union would give you a loan as clerical officer is a good safe job to get you through at the start and it would pay off long tern. This would be after other advice above have been investigated.

It is a vicious circle but if you endured 2/3 years of tough life by working and raising a child on little money, after that with pay increases you would be set for life and your child too.

MouseTail

Agreed that it is short term thinking. I worked as a CO and a single parent. It was very tough for a few years, but I progressed up the ladder fairly rapidly availing of every opportunity for advancement.
I would love to see the sums that show you €90 worse off. Are you getting maintenance?

gerbilgranny

The EO and CO competitions are completely separate, are they not?

I don't think anything that you would do in the CO competition (e.g. get a low score, decline the interview, or choose not to take up a position if offered) would have any bearing on how you'd get on in the EO competition.

Of course anyone not turning up for interview should contact PAS and let them know - that way, a panel isn't sitting there, twiddling their thumbs. And I don't see it as depriving someone else of an interview - someone further down the list will presumably be called when they decide to hold another set of interviews, or when business needs cause a vacancy to exist.

mariosuarez wrote: »

I would try hard to make it work. In 15 years when you are at top of salary scale, you will have a good income to pay for your child's college education. A bank or credit union would give you a loan as clerical officer is a good safe job to get you through at the start and it would pay off long tern. This would be after other advice above have been investigated.

It is a vicious circle but if you endured 2/3 years of tough life by working and raising a child on little money, after that with pay increases you would be set for life and your child too.

Let's hope that the Registration Fees for third-level don't continue to rise as they have been, then!

Without promotion, a CO - even on the max - would hardly be set up for life if they have to support themselves and a child. The cost of living is - costly!

Divisadero

It's a tough one. I didn't even apply for Dublin this time even though I felt most of the jobs would be in the capital. I personally could not survive on that money. Well not with my overheads and with the current rental market here. Dublin weighting or even better rent controls are needed. But what are the chances of that here?!

On the plus side for those with a decent degree the AO competition has been announced. Hopefully the EO will follow in due course.

ruadh

Divisadero wrote: »

On the plus side for those with a decent degree the AO competition has been announced. Hopefully the EO will follow in due course.

Oh? Interesting, I didn't see this anywhere ... have you a link, please?

Beginner to this

Divisadero wrote: »

It's a tough one. I didn't even apply for Dublin this time even though I felt most of the jobs would be in the capital. I personally could not survive on that money. Well not with my overheads and with the current rental market here. Dublin weighting or even better rent controls are needed. But what are the chances of that here?!

On the plus side for those with a decent degree the AO competition has been announced. Hopefully the EO will follow in due course.

Is the AO competition on public jobs? Have applied for the CO in Limerick/Tipp but have a degree, could I apply for AO as well?

Zipppy

Beginner to this wrote: »

Is the AO competition on public jobs? Have applied for the CO in Limerick/Tipp but have a degree, could I apply for AO as well?

Graduate Positions in the Civil Service and Local Authorities

Meathlass

Beginner to this wrote: »

Is the AO competition on public jobs? Have applied for the CO in Limerick/Tipp but have a degree, could I apply for AO as well?

Go to www.gradpublicjobs.ie. Apply for everything you're qualified for I say though I'm not sure what would happen if you started as a CO and then got a position as an AO.

ruadh

How have I not known of the existence of gradpublicjobs.ie????

Meathlass

ruadh wrote: »

How have I not known of the existence of gradpublicjobs.ie????

I don't think there's been much vacancies on it for the last while.

shalalala

Beginner to this wrote: »

Is the AO competition on public jobs? Have applied for the CO in Limerick/Tipp but have a degree, could I apply for AO as well?

I might be having a moment here but what does ao, co etc. Stand for?

Meathlass

shalalala wrote: »

I might be having a moment here but what does ao, co etc. Stand for?

Sorry.

CO - Clerical Officer
AO - Administration Officer
EO - Executive Officer
HEO - Higher Executive Officer
AP - Assistant Principal

All civil service jargon!

Beginner to this

Apply for everything you're qualified for I say though I'm not sure what would happen if you started as a CO and then got a position as an AO.[/QUOTE]

Thanks have a property background which would be helpful for local authority but it's not listed as one of the areas you should be qualified in. The booklet is a bit confusing tbh. Will have to check into it more. Thanks for the help and for the link Zipppy.

Phantasos

A lot of people talking about promotion opportunities like they are quite common - is this actually the case?

I've been a temp in a few different departments over the last few years and there has been no real progression for any staff members (save for temporary uplifts for term time/maternity leave). I saw plenty of 30-somethings that were COs for over a decade and still had no chance for progression in their departments because there simply weren't any vacancies. Almost all of the 'younger' staff were COs, with all the HEOs and EOs being older/longer term employees.

I'd love to believe that you could jump up the ranks if you were ambitious enough... but can you? Or are you much more likely to wallow in CO grades while older staff members scoop up any promotions?

And regarding wages: I was working earlier this year as a TCO - on the old clerical officer pay scale and one increment up - and was making under €370 a week.

ninebeanrows

Yes, the pay is appalling, when the economy picks up in the next few years half of the new COs will leave. The whole process is very short sighted, hire the most intelligent staff and pay them a pittens. With any pick up in the economy these people will be first to jump, they should really be looking for more longterm prospects but as ever beurocracy and red tape makes this impossible.

Phantasos

Interviews next week.

Meathlass

So, our ranking won't be changed by the interview; the interview is only to weed out unsuitable people who don't qualify.

Also if you accept a Dublin position then your name is taken off the panels for all other regions.

Anyone know if you accept a position from this campaign and then get something in the Graduate campaign can you just leave? Or can they stop you from taking up another position in the civil service for a set period of time?

Ciaran

information material wrote:

While you will retain the placing you achieved at Stage 2, you must qualify at interview in order to remain under consideration.

Qualifying at interview is not a guarantee that you will be offered a position.

Does this mean that if you're placed high after stage 2, you just have to reach some minimum standard at the interview to get a job offer? That goes against what people were saying here.

Meathlass

Ciaran wrote: »

Does this mean that if you're placed high after stage 2, you just have to reach some minimum standard at the interview to get a job offer? That goes against what people were saying here.

From the document with the interview time and date.

"This next Stage will comprise a qualifying interview. While you will retain the placing you achieved at Stage 2, you must qualify at interview in order to remain under consideration.

You must perform strongly at interview and achieve the qualifying standard in each of the four skill/competency areas listed above in order to be considered further."

So, yes it does seem to go against what most of us originally thought i.e. we'd be re-ranked after the interview. I don't expect any of us will move up the rank very far, just enough to allow for no-shows and people who do a terrible interview.

darthinvader

Did anyone do worse than they thought in Stage 2, I dropped from 200 something to 400 something when I actually thought I had improved? Just wondering !!!

Phantasos

Meathlass wrote: »

So, our ranking won't be changed by the interview; the interview is only to weed out unsuitable people who don't qualify.

Also if you accept a Dublin position then your name is taken off the panels for all other regions.

Anyone know if you accept a position from this campaign and then get something in the Graduate campaign can you just leave? Or can they stop you from taking up another position in the civil service for a set period of time?

I guess it's reasonable to be off the other panels if you accept a position on this one. However, sucks to have to choose between Dublin and other regions.

I imagine that any other campaign is separate and treated as such.

Divisadero

Unless things have changed you can accept the CO and leave if you are successful in the AO, EO or any other competition.

I did a CO interview about ten years ago and it was probably the easiest interview I ever had. I really got the impression that once you did well in the tests the interview was just a formality.

As I said it was a while ago and it was just my experience so be well prepared just in case!

Good luck everyone.

Meathlass

Divisadero wrote: »

Unless things have changed you can accept the CO and leave if you are successful in the AO, EO or any other competition.

I did a CO interview about ten years ago and it was probably the easiest interview I ever had. I really got the impression that once you did well in the tests the interview was just a formality.

As I said it was a while ago and it was just my experience so be well prepared just in case!

Good luck everyone.

This is what I'm hoping. Would you say it in the interview though, that you had applied for another competition?

Fooker

If you do an interview for Dublin would you have to do another interview for another region if you held out for them?