Clerical Positions in the Civil and Public Service

Zipppy

There was talk a while back of an Open EO competition....any word on this??

Maximus_1

Does everyone that gets one of these roles start on 21k regardless on qualifications etc? Thanks

Divisadero

Same pay for everyone or at least anyone who has never worked in the Civil Service before. These are entry level unskilled positions. By unskilled I mean you learn on the job. There is nothing to stop you from applying for the CO and then applying for the EO if there is an EO competition later on. Even if you are hired as a CO you can still go for the open EO. This is perfectly acceptable within the Civil Service.

Maximus_1

Divisadero wrote: »

Same pay for everyone or at least anyone who has never worked in the Civil Service before. These are entry level unskilled positions. By unskilled I mean you learn on the job. There is nothing to stop you from applying for the CO and then applying for the EO if there is an EO competition later on. Even if you are hired as a CO you can still go for the open EO. This is perfectly acceptable within the Civil Service.

Thanks. How long would you have to be in there before you can apply for those promotions?

Divisadero

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Thanks. How long would you have to be in there before you can apply for those promotions?

Internal promotions are different and you may need to be in the job for a while before you can apply. But an open competition is like it says. Open. It is like this CO competition you would be applying with people who are outside the Civil Service but want to start off as an EO instead of a CO. Unless they change the rules you should still be able to apply even from within the Civil Service. There is talk of an open EO comp later this year. But I know of nothing definite as of yet. So don't hold me to it!

Sorry if this is complicated. But the Public Service is a large and complicated beast...

starlit

If you worked in the civil/public service before do they not increase the pay a little or is the 21k standard salary for this campaign?

Divisadero

doovdela wrote: »

If you worked in the civil/public service before do they not increase the pay a little or is the 21k standard salary for this campaign?

As I said above it may be different for people who worked in the civil service before but I'm not sure and if nobody else on here can help you it would be best if you asked the Civil Service directly. I will bet it is complicated though and may depend on the length and type of your previous experience. I know I didn't qualify when I went back in as a TCO (having been a full-time CO previously). But it might be different for full-time appointments.

InReality

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Thanks. How long would you have to be in there before you can apply for those promotions?

Usually 2 years for Internal Competitions , might be 1 year at odd time.

SPM1959

Applied today.

the_syco

FYI, I believe today is the cut-off point...

starlit

Yes today is the deadline for applications.

Maximus_1

Didn't bother with this as it would be a big enough drop off in salary and after spending 5 years in college would be hard to swallow. Good luck to those boarders who did. I'm hoping an EO competition comes up in the not to distant future!

gazzer

Got an email in work the other day to say that there are a number of competitions due to take place in the next 6 months. I think they are confined ones though.

• Administrative Officer Competition: September 2014

• Executive Officer: November / December 2014

• Assistant Principal: late 2014 if possible within PAS schedule

gazzer

nukie1978 wrote: »

Legend has it there will be an open EO competition around the end of the year anyway. An open competition for generalist AOs would explain the recent rush to interview an unexpectedly large number of people for the specialist panel— the AO Law one anyway.

Presuming many of the same people would apply for general AO jobs as applied for the specialist positions, and those invited to interview would do similarly well in the aptitude tests, it would make sense to make sure you could fill all the relatively-hard to fill specialist positions before possibly offering the same people jobs in relatively-easy to fill generalist positions.

Im 10 years as an EO. I REALLY want a promotion so hoping that the internal AO will go ahead and that I will be successful at it.

gazzer

gazzer wrote: »

Got an email in work the other day to say that there are a number of competitions due to take place in the next 6 months. I think they are confined ones though.

• Administrative Officer Competition: September 2014

• Executive Officer: November / December 2014

• Assistant Principal: late 2014 if possible within PAS schedule

Yeah they are all confined with a HEO confined due in early 2015

Maximus_1

Oh well, there goes my hoping for an EO opportunity

ezra_pound

Maximus_1 wrote: »

Oh well, there goes my hoping for an EO opportunity

There Will be an open EO competition shortly as well.

Divisadero

I hope they do hire a decent number of EO's but I have a question for serving Civil Servants. Are the CO's and EO's in your office doing different or similar work? The reason I ask is that when I worked as a full-time CO there was a significant difference between the duties of both grades. If management thought you were up to it they would lumber you with some (or a lot of!) EO level work but my core duties were CO level. When I returned as a Temp CO last year (in a different department) the EO's and CO's were doing virtually the same work. This may have simply evolved on the ground due to staff shortages or may have been policy driven from the top. I can't say. Maybe they have learned a thing or two from the private sector! If so the unions have certainly dropped the ball. It does make me wonder about any forthcoming EO competitions though. If this is not an isolated exception and has become the norm they may not hire so many EO's. I mean why hire EO's when CO's can do the work for significantly less money?

gerbilgranny

Many many COs employed in the taxes section of Revenue do work which is significantly more 'complicated' than average Clerical Officer work.

barneystinson

gerbilgranny wrote: »

Many many COs employed in the taxes section of Revenue do work which is significantly more 'complicated' than average Clerical Officer work.

So the upcoming EO competition will be a great opportunity for them!

FloatingVoter

Revenue COs used to be Tax Officers. About 2002 the grades were merged into the general rankings.

TO = CO
Higher Tax Officer = EO
Tax Inspector = HEO

A tax officer made more on day 1 than the equivalent clerical officer in other departments. And you had to do the phones.....oh...the bloody 1890 number. All those happy taxpayers.;)

jobseekr1

I am in my early thirties, out of college ten years, and worked for most of the time in the private sector.
My concern is that I may be perceived as being too ‘old’ for this sort of role, purely because I would imagine many CO’s would have joined straight after college or school.
Am I wrong to think that ‘seniority’ is the be all and end all when it comes to promotion in this sort of role?
Also, can those not working in the service realistically get in at the middling grades or realistically, if you can’t show you joined a day after college/school are you wasting your time?
How likely are EO roles likely to come up? And how can one demonstrate relevant private sector experience to enter the service at the that grade?
My issue is I would have to take a major pay drop to enter this level, and similar to Shoestring, I would be doing so with the intention of moving on/going for potential promotion in time, and would like to think there would the chance of increasing salary etc.
If people could advise? I am very interested in the fact that the service is recruiting again, it is a positive sign, but there are pros and cons too. Many thanks.
Also, I am I right in thinking an AO salary scale begins at circa 30k and EO slight less?
Is there any sort of a public sector tax calculator online that allows one to check for increased levies that public servants pay etc?

Divisadero

Age is not an issue as you will be working for the state so they have to be very careful about discrimination. There was a guy in my office who joined about 8 years before retirement. You should have a good chance if you do well in the exams. AO is a higher grade than EO not too different from HEO. They are really after recent graduates here but I know of at least one older person getting hired. But with CO and EO age is certainly not an issue. However if you want to apply for CO you have missed the deadline. Hopefully there wil be an EO comp later this year.

Gongoozler

EO doesn't start at just under 30, around 23 or 25 as far as I remember. 25 is before 2011 I think. Not sure. But definitely doesn't start at just under 30.

sillysocks

Had a look at the scales there, EO is approx 27.5k and AO 29.9k.
Jobseeker1 I'd be much the same as you, would hope to get in as eo or ao based on my experience but not sure if it happens. In as a TcO now to try get a bit of experience as my company closed a few months ago and made me redundant.

cocaholic

Is an EO competition going to be open for those outside the public sector? Thought AO, CO and Third Secretary in addition to specialists were the only entry level grades. I'm currently a TCO. I can see many really good CO's who have been in the Department for many years and havent been promoted to EO, so I woudn't bet on promotion happening quickly as some hope and think.

jjnaas

sillysocks wrote: »

Had a look at the scales there, EO is approx 27.5k and AO 29.9k.
Jobseeker1 I'd be much the same as you, would hope to get in as eo or ao based on my experience but not sure if it happens. In as a TcO now to try get a bit of experience as my company closed a few months ago and made me redundant.

I'm a TCO at the moment too. My EO told me that EO used to be graduate entry position before the recession. Ppl fresh out of college got it.Not sure really as all EOs here are in their 50s and
came in as COs out of school.

Also 80% of the TCOs here are over 35. Most of them 40+. 2 are college age.

I would guess myself that this CO competition will also attract a lot of older people. In my office there's 500 staff and I haven't seen any permanent staff under 30.

jjnaas

cocaholic wrote: »

Is an EO competition going to be open for those outside the public sector? Thought AO, CO and Third Secretary in addition to specialists were the only entry level grades. I'm currently a TCO. I can see many really good CO's who have been in the Department for many years and havent been promoted to EO, so I woudn't bet on promotion happening quickly as some hope and think.

Just to add to my previous post that I agree with this. Vast majority of COs never get promoted. There's a few real toppers here who've been COs for 20 odd years and most of them won't get promoted. It's a numbers game.
I think a lot of ppl who applied for the CO competition have intentions of climbing the ranks quickly but as above this is the real exception and not something to be pinning yer hopes on.

sillysocks

There are sample aptitude tests on the public jobs site. Decided to try a numerical one last night just to see, and was shocked when it came back with my results it also said that the 'pass' mark for the test was to get 8 out of 32 right! Surely that's a ridiculously low 'pass' mark?

Divisadero

As I said in previous posts just passing the test will not get you a job. There will be many applying for each vacancy and you will be ranked. So to have a good chance of an offer you need to do really well in the tests. Things may have changed but when I interviewed for CO I really got the impression that it was more a formality than a competitive interview. But without a high score in the tests I would not even have got an interview. My advice is to take the tests (questionnaire and aptitude) seriously as in my opinion they are the most important part of the process.