Italy vs Costa Rica 17:00 RTE2/BBC1

Tigerandahalf

Poor quality game. Italy looked knackered. Take out Pirlo and they are very average. I believe Italy have a lot of flight miles done in the last week plus playing a game in Manaus and then Recife tonight has taken its toll, especially for the older players. Chillenni looked leg weary with 20 minutes to go.
It doesn't say much for England that they were beaten by that Italian side. The Costa Ricans didn't even manmark Pirlo in the latter half of the 2nd half and still Italy couldn't create a decent chance.
Fair play to Costa Rica, a great day for them.
Who meets the 2nd team from this group?

FatherTed

Everybody picked the Ticos to finish fourth in this group and now they've have two wins. Great job!

Loafing Oaf

Lennonist wrote: »

That's what they call him in Ballyer

It's not 'Manoos' either you other tool. I suppose you're gonna tell me he's from Kildare...

kingshankly

niallo27 wrote: »

They are already through though. They might rest players.

Would like to win the group I'm sure

FatherTed

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Poor quality game. Italy looked knackered. Take out Pirlo and they are very average. I believe Italy have a lot of flight miles done in the last week plus playing a game in Manaus and then Recife tonight has taken its toll, especially for the older players. Chillenni looked leg weary with 20 minutes to go.
It doesn't say much for England that they were beaten by that Italian side. The Costa Ricans didn't even manmark Pirlo in the latter half of the 2nd half and still Italy couldn't create a decent chance.
Fair play to Costa Rica, a great day for them.
Who meets the 2nd team from this group?

Colombia/Ivory Coast

shrewdness

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Poor quality game. Italy looked knackered. Take out Pirlo and they are very average. I believe Italy have a lot of flight miles done in the last week plus playing a game in Manaus and then Recife tonight has taken its toll, especially for the older players. Chillenni looked leg weary with 20 minutes to go.
It doesn't say much for England that they were beaten by that Italian side. The Costa Ricans didn't even manmark Pirlo in the latter half of the 2nd half and still Italy couldn't create a decent chance.
Fair play to Costa Rica, a great day for them.
Who meets the 2nd team from this group?

Colombia.

Lennonist

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

In the words of the Apres Match Liam Brady "He's just a 'possibly so' merchant Bill."

He has good diction and strong facial expression. It's in the eyebrows, Charles Mitchell had it. Kenny could be one of the greats.

LightningBlue

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Poor quality game. Italy looked knackered. Take out Pirlo and they are very average. I believe Italy have a lot of flight miles done in the last week plus playing a game in Manaus and then Recife tonight has taken its toll, especially for the older players. Chillenni looked leg weary with 20 minutes to go.
It doesn't say much for England that they were beaten by that Italian side. The Costa Ricans didn't even manmark Pirlo in the latter half of the 2nd half and still Italy couldn't create a decent chance.
Fair play to Costa Rica, a great day for them.
Who meets the 2nd team from this group?

The winners of Group C, which will most likely be Colombia.

Turtyturd

Rio was really stuck for words in his interview...half expected him to start freestylin'.

Loafing Oaf

FatherTed wrote: »

Everybody picked the Ticos to finish fourth in this group and now they've have two wins. Great job!

I had them in my group stages accum.:mad: Had originally gone with Italy to qualify but decided CR last was a surer thing.

Boom__Boom

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Who meets the 2nd team from this group?

At the moment 2nd will play Colombia and Costa Rica will play Ivory Coast. Group C not sorted yet.

1st group D v 2nd Group C & 2nd group C v 1st Group D

efb

kingshankly wrote: »

Would like to win the group I'm sure

A draw wins then the group

The big scowly head on kenny on rte2

Delighted for costa rica though! ....

Boom__Boom

kingshankly wrote: »

Would like to win the group I'm sure

Pretty much already have the way goal difference is - odds are that the Uruguay Italy will either be a draw or decided by 1 one goal.

Rest the key players for the all-important game against Colombia and keep the positive vibes in the camp going by playing the lads who haven't had a run y

SlickRic

CSF wrote: »

Hodgson the problem for me, the British media a big part of it too

Hodgson is quite blatantly the biggest problem.

people had seemed to forget how mediocre he is.

Son Of A Vidic

A well deserved win by Costa Rica but Italy looked spent with the humidity. Pirlo was the oldest outfield player and he looked it in those conditions. Meanwhile England and their highly paid 'superstars' pack their bags and lowly Costa Rica prepare for the next round.

Lenin Skynard

Cunningham seems to have no regard for Dunphy at all.

Pudsy33

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Cunningham seems to have no regard for Dunphy at all.

And rightly so

Lemonandice20

Cunningham looked like he was about to punch Dunphy. Seems to hate Terry too, maybe Terry shagged hid wife.

CountyHurler

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Cunningham seems to have no regard for Dunphy at all.

He looks at him with completely disdain and contempt.. I'm trying to remember did Dunphy say something in particular about Cunningham when he was part of the Irish setup, or is it just a general dislike..

I think the poorest part of the Terry argument was Kenny admitting that the team would have been better with Terry in it.. But it wasnt the right decision to bring him... There's no point the FA having the moral high ground on the plane home..

Tigerandahalf

Dunphy doesn't like being overturned in an argument. He tries to bully the other person down. He has put his shirt on Terry and in fairness to Cunningham he has a point. Terry's legs would never stand up in Brazil. He is a good defender but is slow and his better days are behind him.
Dunphy is still blaming the coach when it is clear that the players just aren't good enough. Hodgson did a good job. The England camp appeared united and happy and the best players were picked. Need to accept that they are sub-standard.
I wonder would this mid-season break make much of a difference?
One thing for certain the English players give far more effort in their local derbies than when they put on the England jersey.

Lemonandice20

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Dunphy doesn't like being overturned in an argument. He tries to bully the other person down. He has put his shirt on Terry and in fairness to Cunningham he has a point. Terry's legs would never stand up in Brazil. He is a good defender but is slow and his better days are behind him.
Dunphy is still blaming the coach when it is clear that the players just aren't good enough. Hodgson did a good job. The England camp appeared united and happy and the best players were picked. Need to accept that they are sub-standard.
I wonder would this mid-season break make much of a difference?
One thing for certain the English players give far more effort in their local derbies than when they put on the England jersey.

Are the Costa Rica players good enough?

Billy86

CountyHurler wrote: »

He looks at him with completely disdain and contempt.. I'm trying to remember did Dunphy say something in particular about Cunningham when he was part of the Irish setup, or is it just a general dislike..

I think the poorest part of the Terry argument was Kenny admitting that the team would have been better with Terry in it.. But it wasnt the right decision to bring him... There's no point the FA having the moral high ground on the plane home..

I think he looks sick of the old boys club that is Dunphy/Giles/Bill, and I agree. Three people with badly dated and insanely biased views of football, it's pretty embarrassing. Dunphy response so to the question about Terry and Cole in 2010 was a complete denial of reality.

The problem is Kenny is not good at arguing. What proof Terry would have fractured the dressing room? How about sleeping with teammates girlfriends or racially abusing the brother of his national CB partner. What a stupid question.

Would he have made a better partner to Cahill than Jagielka? Yes, but at the cost of the entire team. Imagine if we got to the 2006 WC and Keane, old and near retirement (in fact he did retire that summer) turned around and said "ok, I want back in". Yes he would still have been better than Carlsey, Kavanagh or whoever we were playing at the time but it would have ruined morale.

What about Lallana and Lambert? They would have gladly played for England in the qualifying games but had yet to fully establish themselves as worthy. Terry turned his back on England D by retiring, everyone has to at some point, but he also did it as part of a tantrum over having to be held accountable for once in his life by being given a suspension (and a much smaller one than Suarez got for a very similar incident around the same time).

I just wish it had been Sadlier there.

Son Of A Vidic

Lemonandice20 wrote: »

Cunningham looked like he was about to punch Dunphy. Seems to hate Terry too, maybe Terry shagged hid wife.

I reckon Terry probably shagged him.

Tigerandahalf

Lemonandice20 wrote: »

Are the Costa Rica players good enough?

Good question. On paper you would say no. But they have now beaten Uruguay and Italy. Good work ethic, fitness and players willing to give it a go. The fear of failure seems to haunt some of the England players. When you see the way they are sometimes treated by their media and supporters when they return home, perhaps one can see why.

Gbear

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Dunphy is still blaming the coach when it is clear that the players just aren't good enough. Hodgson did a good job. The England camp appeared united and happy and the best players were picked. Need to accept that they are sub-standard.

You really don't.

They have better players than Costa Rica and Uruguay and are at worst on par with Italy.

There's probably only 2 teams in the world that have significantly better players available than England - Germany and Spain.
They're the only teams you could excuse England looking **** against.

Maybe you'd have to grow a pair and drop Gerrard (or at least grow a brain and not play a 34 year old in a 2 man midfield). Maybe you'd have to discommode Rooney or some other player for the sake of the team.

Those are the kinds of decisions a top class manager has to make. It doesn't matter who's the "best" either by reputation or on form. Just shoveling them into an 11 is a cop out but a predictable one from a manager like Hodgson.

Even if he had the gumption to make a decision like that, he doesn't have the clout built on success to be able to pull it off without pissing the players off.

Tigerandahalf

Gbear wrote: »

You really don't.

They have better players than Costa Rica and Uruguay and are at worst on par with Italy.

There's probably only 2 teams in the world that have significantly better players available than England - Germany and Spain.
They're the only teams you could excuse England looking **** against.

Maybe you'd have to grow a pair and drop Gerrard (or at least grow a brain and not play a 34 year old in a 2 man midfield). Maybe you'd have to discommode Rooney or some other player for the sake of the team.

Those are the kinds of decisions a top class manager has to make. It doesn't matter who's the "best" either by reputation or on form. Just shoveling them into an 11 is a cop out but a predictable one from a manager like Hodgson.

Even if he had the gumption to make a decision like that, he doesn't have the clout built on success to be able to pull it off without pissing the players off.

Plenty managers have been with England now. Capello would be seen as a top manager and one not to take any messing. He didn't do it and quit. There was no major improvement in England's achievements while Capello was there.
Easy to blame Hodgson. He can come across a certain way when interviewed but he is clearly a guy who is respected by players. People like Dunphy might not respect him, but I wouldn't put too much weight behind that.

vidor

Italy never really got going. A few nice touches in the first half along with the odd through pass from Pirlo but looked banjaxed in the second half and really struggled. Silly amount of offsides. Can only imagine what the number would be if Immobile was brought on. I like Cassano but he had a terrible impact on the game.

padders67

SlickRic wrote: »

Hodgson is quite blatantly the biggest problem.

people had seemed to forget how mediocre he is.

agreed - not having a plan to man mark pirlo was criminal - look at the difference marking him instead of standing back admiring him made tonight .

also not changing things round when Baines was getting outnumbered all night v Italy .

Last night was down to individual errors as much as anything but he should have hauled gerrard off with 30 mins to go .

Hodgson has to go - out of the world cup with a game to spare is not acceptable

Ulysses Gaze

Good question. On paper you would say no. But they have now beaten Uruguay and Italy. Good work ethic, fitness and players willing to give it a go.

The World Cup can really inspire some players as well.

Bryan Ruiz couldn't score in a brothel with a fist full of fivers in the Premier League, but he's looked great here in two games.

justshane

Gbear wrote: »

You really don't.

They have better players than Costa Rica and Uruguay and are at worst on par with Italy.

There's probably only 2 teams in the world that have significantly better players available than England - Germany and Spain.
They're the only teams you could excuse England looking **** against.

Maybe you'd have to grow a pair and drop Gerrard (or at least grow a brain and not play a 34 year old in a 2 man midfield). Maybe you'd have to discommode Rooney or some other player for the sake of the team.

Those are the kinds of decisions a top class manager has to make. It doesn't matter who's the "best" either by reputation or on form. Just shoveling them into an 11 is a cop out but a predictable one from a manager like Hodgson.

Even if he had the gumption to make a decision like that, he doesn't have the clout built on success to be able to pull it off without pissing the players off.

France and Brazil man for man are a far better team than England. I'd even be of the opinion that Belgium are too. Argentina prob just missing a defender but everywhere else miles better than England too.

Gbear

justshane wrote: »

France and Brazil man for man are a far better team than England. I'd even be of the opinion that Belgium are too. Argentina prob just missing a defender but everywhere else miles better than England too.

I did say "significantly". I even put it in bold.
The more I see of France, the more I'm inclined to agree.

As for the other teams mentioned, I don't agree.

They certainly have better players in some positions but I really don't think there's a whole lot between them.
The Argies have amazing options up front but they can't all play at once. Other than that they're nothing special.
Belgium have a pretty high standard right through their squad with a couple of monsters. Even so, I don't think they're qualitatively better than what England have available.
Brazil have 1 defender and no strikers.

justshane

Gbear wrote: »

I did say "significantly". I even put it in bold.
The more I see of France, the more I'm inclined to agree.

As for the other teams mentioned, I don't agree.

They certainly have better players in some positions but I really don't think there's a whole lot between them.
The Argies have amazing options up front but they can't all play at once. Other than that they're nothing special.
Belgium have a pretty high standard right through their squad with a couple of monsters. Even so, I don't think they're qualitatively better than what England have available.
Brazil have 1 defender and no strikers.

To be fair I think when I say far better I obviously mean the team in question is significantly better. It is just another way of saying that I feel their is a big quality gap between teams.

France and Brazil man for man are significantly better than England. Hope that might make it a bit simpler for you.

Brazil have a proven champions league winner in nets. Playing in a below-par league admittedly but in many peoples opinion goalkeepers improve with age. England have Joe Hart whom is undoubtedly unproven at the top European and international levels.

Brazil have a proven champions league winner playing right back. England have Johnson and probably next best Smalling.

Brazil have a choice of two champions league winning center backs in Luiz and Dante and that would leave out their captain Thiago Silva whom I rate as world class. England have a solid unspectacular Cahill and Jagielka whom has never kicked a champions league football. The other candidate is Jones who couldn't break into a poor Manchester United team the season just gone.

Brazil have a champions league winner at left back who actually scored in this seasons final. England have a young hopeful in Shaw and a dead ball specialist who got caught out badly in both world cup games so far.

In midfield Brazil have a very composed trio of Paulinho, Luiz Gustavo, and Ramires who are all in their primes and offer different quality's in a competitive midfield. They also have Oscar who would walk into the English team. England have a former world class Gerrard who sadly looks as if his legs are gone and a work horse in Henderson who despite his great attitude doesn't really have the guile to match it. an aging Frank Lampard remains on the bench which is unfortunate for England because I reckon he has more to offer in big games than Gerrard(performance against PSG this season)

Up top possibly England have a better center forward than Brazil in Sturridge or/and Rooney however their attacking wingers and support strikers in Neymar and Willian are better players than Welbeck and Sterling(who could go on to be top class just isnt quite their yet)

Gbear

Repeatedly saying "Champions League winner" is irrelevant. Djimi Traore won the Champions League.

justshane wrote: »

Brazil have a proven champions league winner in nets. Playing in a below-par league admittedly but in many peoples opinion goalkeepers improve with age. England have Joe Hart whom is undoubtedly unproven at the top European and international levels.

Julio Cesar isn't very good. He's no better than Hart.

justshane wrote: »

Brazil have a proven champions league winner playing right back. England have Johnson and probably next best Smalling.

Is Alvez better than what England have? Yes. But he's past it and still not very good. He was never much of a defender to begin with.

justshane wrote: »

Brazil have a choice of two champions league winning center backs in Luiz and Dante and that would leave out their captain Thiago Silva whom I rate as world class. England have a solid unspectacular Cahill and Jagielka whom has never kicked a champions league football. The other candidate is Jones who couldn't break into a poor Manchester United team the season just gone.

I'd argue that they're better on the ball than Cahill and Jagielka but I don't believe they're any more solid. Not a significant improvement.

justshane wrote: »

Brazil have a champions league winner at left back who actually scored in this seasons final. England have a young hopeful in Shaw and a dead ball specialist who got caught out badly in both world cup games so far.

Marcello is technically gifted but not a very good left back. I'd have Baines all day.

justshane wrote: »

In midfield Brazil have a very composed trio of Paulinho, Luiz Gustavo, and Ramires who are all in their primes and offer different quality's in a competitive midfield. They also have Oscar who would walk into the English team. England have a former world class Gerrard who sadly looks as if his legs are gone and a work horse in Henderson who despite his great attitude doesn't really have the guile to match it. an aging Frank Lampard remains on the bench which is unfortunate for England because I reckon he has more to offer in big games than Gerrard(performance against PSG this season)

Paulinho is nothing special. That aside, this is the only part of the pitch where Brazil are significantly better.

justshane wrote: »

Up top possibly England have a better center forward than Brazil in Sturridge or/and Rooney however their attacking wingers and support strikers in Neymar and Willian are better players than Welbeck and Sterling(who could go on to be top class just isnt quite their yet)

I'd disagree on Willian. All we've seen of him is that he's a workhorse. I wouldn't pick him over Sterling in a fit.

Brazil might shade it overall but I don't think there's a whole lot between them.

Call Me Jimmy

re: Kenny V Dunphy

No matter what the point, Dunphy is a masterdebator :pac: It's more like boxing, the content is not even secondary it's completely irrelevant. It's a skill of out-manouevring someone and messing up their train of thought by drawing them into questions and down paths that will make them look like they're losing, confuse them and get them to say something that appears contradictory and thus stop them in their tracks.

Dunphy hasn't had a good point in a long time if ever, but he will appear to have the upper hand over anyone who isn't well-versed in the method. Most journalists can do it because they have to manipulate people for stories.

hatrickpatrick

I would imagine watching the obnoxious smirk I'd had on my face since drawing Italy for sweepstakes turn to despair was highly amusing for my friends last night.

Looking onward to Tuesday, what are people's views on whether Italy can get their acts together in time to give Uraguay a hiding? Problem is I'd imagine Uraguay were spooked enough by their earlier defeat that they'll have been plotting and scheming for the whole week, whereas I think it's safe to say that Italy went into the game last night with an air of arrogance in the first half and panic in the second - not a great mindset to have with a deciding match in just a couple of days.

Also, WTF @ having two group D games on at the same time? Seems bizarre to me, unless Google's match tracker is borked England will be playing Costa Rica at the same time as Italy v Uraguay, which makes calculating required goal difference to top the group should Costa Rica lose impossible. Am I wrong about the times? Google says both matches are 17.00 kick off

Aenaes

The final games of each group are being played at the same time.

hatrickpatrick

Aenaes wrote: »

The final games of each group are being played at the same time.

Well balls.

DM_7

Billy86 wrote: »

Would he have made a better partner to Cahill than Jagielka? Yes, but at the cost of the entire team. Imagine if we got to the 2006 WC and Keane, old and near retirement (in fact he did retire that summer) turned around and said "ok, I want back in". Yes he would still have been better than Carlsey, Kavanagh or whoever we were playing at the time but it would have ruined morale.

Do we have to imagine that Roy didn't play in the qualifiers as well?

Billy86

DM-ICE wrote: »

Do we have to imagine that Roy didn't play in the qualifiers as well?

Bit of a facepalm moment on my part, completely forgot about his recall while typing that. If we had qualified for Euro 2004 would have been a better example.

Lemonandice20

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I would imagine watching the obnoxious smirk I'd had on my face since drawing Italy for sweepstakes turn to despair was highly amusing for my friends last night.

Looking onward to Tuesday, what are people's views on whether Italy can get their acts together in time to give Uraguay a hiding? Problem is I'd imagine Uraguay were spooked enough by their earlier defeat that they'll have been plotting and scheming for the whole week, whereas I think it's safe to say that Italy went into the game last night with an air of arrogance in the first half and panic in the second - not a great mindset to have with a deciding match in just a couple of days.

Also, WTF @ having two group D games on at the same time? Seems bizarre to me, unless Google's match tracker is borked England will be playing Costa Rica at the same time as Italy v Uraguay, which makes calculating required goal difference to top the group should Costa Rica lose impossible. Am I wrong about the times? Google says both matches are 17.00 kick off

It's been like that the last 5 world cups, maybe more.