Scholes was better than Xavi and Pirlo

Liam O

niallo27 wrote: »

Wouldn't he just get on with. Is Rooney going to retire after the same happened to him.

Jamie Carragher did if I remember correctly. Why didn't he just get on with it niallo?

Too Tough To Die

Better than Pirlo. Not as good as Xavi.

Lostman1990

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Some will disagree but the stats don't lie

1. Scored twice as many goals as both
2. three times the assists of both
3. More trophies than both

So agree or disagree?

Disagree....Scholes could never control the pace of a game like either of these two.

Lemonandice20

munster87 wrote: »

When was Pirlo's peak?

Around 2004 I'd say. Have a look at him for Milan against Deportivo in the champions league at the San Siro that year to get an idea how good he was.

Lucifer MorningStar

He was in his shiote

n32

As someone said earlier, some of Scholes performances have come in his later years when he played in a shíte midfield with the likes of Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher, Carrick, Park (not to mention valencia and Young!!!) etc whereas Xavi had iniesta and Busquets. Pirlo in fairness has had a few turkeys beside him as well near the end at Milan. Xavi has always been surrounded by the highest quality at club and international level.
Hard to pick the best but they have to be 3 of the best any of us have seen

niallo27

Liam O wrote: »

Jamie Carragher did if I remember correctly. Why didn't he just get on with it niallo?

He was never first choice anyway. Perhaps he should have carried on. I'm sure if he was in the side out at least 2nd or third choice at centre half he would have stayed on.

Roquentin

Scholes didnt enjoy the england set up. Hed go from playing with manchester to playing with england, with different team mates and different tactics. I think he was kind of a guy who liked the routine of club football and hated the unpredictability of international football.

Irish94

Roquentin wrote: »

Scholes didnt enjoy the england set up. Hed go from playing with manchester to playing with england, with different team mates and different tactics. I think he was kind of a guy who liked the routine of club football and hated the unpredictability of international football.

I think Scholes just saw his opportunities in the national team decline completely due to Sven-Göran Eriksson playing him out of position on the left of the midfield to accommodate the pairing of Gerrard and Lampard in central midfield. I think Gerrard called it the 'graveyard' position, knowing Scholes was gonna be put out there. Laughable come to think of it, leaving the best midfielder in the country out to accommodate two players that played a similar role, merely because the English media wanted Lampard and Gerrard to play together.

How none of Erikssons' assistants didn't point this out to him makes it even worse.

SlickRic

It's amazing how underrated Pirlo still is.

an absolute genius for so, so long.

Champions Leagues, Leagues, European Championship (MOTM in the final), World Cup (MOTM in the final).

I think Scholes is incredible, but it's Xavi/Pirlo, then Scholes for me.

eagle eye

Scholes is the most overrated players in the last decade imo. He had a few good years at United when he started to play that midfield hub role but before that he was average and after that he was average.

Xavi Hernadez is one of the greatest footballers of all time and Pirlo is a top 100 player of all time too.

bucketybuck

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Danny Welbeck = 1 EPL Title; Alan Shearer = 0 EPL Title so...ye Gods.

Not sure if you are serious here?

bullvine

eagle eye wrote: »

Scholes is the most overrated players in the last decade imo. He had a few good years at United when he started to play that midfield hub role but before that he was average and after that he was average.

Xavi Hernadez is one of the greatest footballers of all time and Pirlo is a top 100 player of all time too.

thats incorrect, he didnt start to play the midfield, his early career was as a forward, then around 98 he became a midfielder, he played in the middle in the treble season and in summer 2000 was the subject of a 31m bid from inter as a midfielder, then for some crazy idea in 01 fergie made him play behind ruud. It started off badly but by the end of 02 he had mastered it and for a couple of seasons he was phenomenal as a number 10 but with the aging of keane and fergies inability to replace midfielders plus the selling of both butt and p nev forced scholes back into midfield. From around 06 season he was just incredible till pretty much when he retired.

dreamers75

I wouldnt play all 3 together but each is the best midfielder the respective country has ever produced.

If i had to pick I would pick Scholes as he carries a goal threat.

bullvine

You only have to look at how desperate capello and hodgson were to get him out of retirement.

rossie1977

not a chance. pirlo and xavi were equally as good at international level as they were at club and european. scholes was a good english club player.

using trophies won to say one player is better than another, well scholes has won more league titles than maradona so i guess that makes him better than him too...then again nicky butt has more league titles so i guess he was better than maradona as well :rolleyes:

Liam O

rossie1977 wrote: »

scholes was a good english club player.

If that's what you have to tell yourself man.

Lucas Castroman

Scholes has never totally controlled/dictated a game like Pirlo has. In my lifetime, English players have been consistently humiliated when asked to compete at the very highest level. They have never produced a world class player in the Pirlo/Xavi mould. They are all just "kick and rush" merchants - Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard etc. who get found out at this level. When their pace goes they have nothing left to offer - that's why Pirlo is still a class act and Scholes is a distant memory. In 2006, Pirlo together with Cannavaro transformed an average Italian team into World Champions.
The English hype machine is desperate to create superstars out of their players. The Scholes situation was similar to what is happening Rooney now. We're continuously brainwashed that they are "world-class" but there is no hard evidence to support this.
Scholes may have been a good player but he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Pirlo/Xavi.

bmcc10

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

Scholes has never totally controlled/dictated a game like Pirlo has. In my lifetime, English players have been consistently humiliated when asked to compete at the very highest level. They have never produced a world class player in the Pirlo/Xavi mould. They are all just "kick and rush" merchants - Scholes/Gerrard/Lampard etc. who get found out at this level. When their pace goes they have nothing left to offer - that's why Pirlo is still a class act and Scholes is a distant memory. In 2006, Pirlo together with Cannavaro transformed an average Italian team into World Champions.
The English hype machine is desperate to create superstars out of their players. The Scholes situation was similar to what is happening Rooney now. We're continuously brainwashed that they are "world-class" but there is no hard evidence to support this.
Scholes may have been a good player but he doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Pirlo/Xavi.

Stopped reading at controlled/dictated.

dreamers75

bmcc10 wrote: »

Stopped reading at controlled/dictated.

Fairly sure thats what Scholes did. Controlled and dictated a game from start to finish.

No clue what your man is on Scholes is exactly like Pirlo Xavi/Bolger controlls the game from midfield and dictates the style of play and tempo.

gerrard has 2 tempos in the game or not in the game, Scholes never had that issue.

Andersonisgod

As football fans in the 21st century we worship at the altar of Xavi Hernandez. The hub, the metronome through which all things great about Barcelona and Spain have flowed. The man is the main weapon in the death by a thousand passes philosophy, his desire to receive the ball, pass, locate space, receive the ball again, pass again ect. is insatiable. No midfielder has ever been the dominant force as consistently as Xavi Hernandez has been. Cut from the same cloth as Guardiola, he is the embodiment, and feature component, of a style that revolutionised football and, in turn , he has revolutionised midfield play.

I love watching Pirlo play, as I loved watching Scholes play and really they were different players to Xavi and even their positions differed quite a bit to Xavi's throughout their careers. However if you were to do a comparison of the 3 I'd have Xavi Hernandez everytime.

Lucas Castroman

dreamers75 wrote: »

Fairly sure thats what Scholes did. Controlled and dictated a game from start to finish.

No clue what your man is on Scholes is exactly like Pirlo Xavi/Bolger controlls the game from midfield and dictates the style of play and tempo.

gerrard has 2 tempos in the game or not in the game, Scholes never had that issue.

Not in his wildest dreams, has Scholes ever played a game like Pirlo did against England. What Scholes excelled at was bursting into the box and scoring which is what gains you a reputation in England ala Lampard/Gerrard.
Pirlo/Xavi are deep lying playmakers and England has never produced a player of this breed.
I get the impression people would argue Gerrard was a better player than Pirlo unless there were 2 games in recent memory where he completely overshadowed him and provided a masterclass in midfield play.
The fact of the matter is that if Scholes at his peak was in the England team at Brazil, Pirlo would still have schooled them.
Conversely, if you could transplant Pirlo into the current English team you would transform them into World Cup contenders.
That's the difference.

Liam O

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

Not in his wildest dreams, has Scholes ever played a game like Pirlo did against England. What Scholes excelled at was bursting into the box and scoring which is what gains you a reputation in England ala Lampard/Gerrard.
Pirlo/Xavi are deep lying playmakers and England has never produced a player of this breed.
I get the impression people would argue Gerrard was a better player than Pirlo unless there were 2 games in recent memory where he completely overshadowed him and provided a masterclass in midfield play.
The fact of the matter is that if Scholes at his peak was in the England team at Brazil, Pirlo would still have schooled them.
Conversely, if you could transplant Pirlo into the current English team you would transform them into World Cup contenders.
That's the difference.

Lucas Castroman

Liam O wrote: »

Meaningless

Liam O

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

Meaningless

A lot like your post which shows that you didn't watch Paul Scholes play.

Lucas Castroman

Liam O wrote: »

A lot like your post which shows that you didn't watch Paul Scholes play.

No worries, it's easier to post one of those foolish GIFs rather than
actually argue your point.

tupac_healy

I totally disagree with the title of this thread......

You left out the word 'combined'

Turtwig

Liam O wrote: »

A lot like your post which shows that you didn't watch Paul Scholes play.

You know, it would be very helpful if you actually explained your disagreement with his post rather than posting a gif and then this. They at least have put forward reasoning to their opinion.

Your post might as well have been
"No" and nothing else.
Utterly pointless.

bmcc10

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

Not in his wildest dreams, has Scholes ever played a game like Pirlo did against England. What Scholes excelled at was bursting into the box and scoring which is what gains you a reputation in England ala Lampard/Gerrard.
Pirlo/Xavi are deep lying playmakers and England has never produced a player of this breed.
I get the impression people would argue Gerrard was a better player than Pirlo unless there were 2 games in recent memory where he completely overshadowed him and provided a masterclass in midfield play.
The fact of the matter is that if Scholes at his peak was in the England team at Brazil, Pirlo would still have schooled them.
Conversely, if you could transplant Pirlo into the current English team you would transform them into World Cup contenders.
That's the difference.

Your talking about the same Scholes that Pirlo couldn't get close too the last time they played against each other? Scholes ran the show that night.

Lucas Castroman

bmcc10 wrote: »

Your talking about the same Scholes that Pirlo couldn't get close too the last time they played against each other? Scholes ran the show that night.

Pirlo has achieved legendary status - Scholes will only be remembered by premier league fanatics like yourself.
It seems your football knowledge is as good as your grasp of basic grammar.

OneEightSeven

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Danny Welbeck = 1 EPL Title; Alan Shearer = 0 EPL Title so...ye Gods.

I don't know which is worse: this very naive quote or the 5 people who thanked it.

bmcc10

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

Pirlo has achieved legendary status - Scholes will only be remembered by premier league fanatics like yourself.
It seems your football knowledge is as good as your grasp of basic grammar.

You called Scholes a kick and rush merchant and you question my football knowledge? My goodness.

Utopia Parkway

Scholes quit international football 10 years ago.

A canny decision. Knew there was nothing but hassle involved in playing for England so got out while the going was good. Kept his legacy somewhat intact as well. Nobody saw him crash and burn all that often for England compared to his peers.

Result.

grenache

Lucas Castroman wrote: »

Not in his wildest dreams, has Scholes ever played a game like Pirlo did against England. What Scholes excelled at was bursting into the box and scoring which is what gains you a reputation in England ala Lampard/Gerrard.
Pirlo/Xavi are deep lying playmakers and England has never produced a player of this breed.
I get the impression people would argue Gerrard was a better player than PJirlo unless there were 2 games in recent memory where he completely overshadowed him and provided a masterclass in midfield play.
The fact of the matter is that if Scholes at his peak was in the England team at Brazil, Pirlo would still have schooled them.
Conversely, if you could transplant Pirlo into the current English team you would transform them into World Cup contenders.
That's the difference.

Finally somebody speaks some sense.

Liam O

Turtwig wrote: »

You know, it would be very helpful if you actually explained your disagreement with his post rather than posting a gif and then this. They at least have put forward reasoning to their opinion.

Your post might as well have been
"No" and nothing else.
Utterly pointless.

When nothing in a post has any basis in reality this is what I'm forced to do unfortunately. Scholes who excelled in every central position he played over a period of about 15 years and was instrumental to 2 CL wins and numerous league wins never dictated a game the way Xavi or Pirlo did? The same Xavi who admits to learning from him? The fact Scholes was so good at scoring and dynamic runs forward along with having the vision of these guys and space creation shouldn't be something used to beat him with. It was a boneheaded post by someone who clearly didn't have a clue what they were on about so got an appropriate response. This is probably a lot more than it deserves.

gosplan

Love it.

Since retiring, he's gone from England's most underrated player to the best midfielder of the last two decades.

If there were no Utd fan's here, this discussion wouldn't be happening.

And it doesn't matter what Xavi said about him. Pele said Nicky Butt was the best English player at one point. Is that supposed to mean something as well?

Or is it that both interviews were conducted by English media so they talked up English players?

Think if Xavi was asked by 'Bild' or 'Marca' who the best midfielder is, he'd say the same?

Lemonandice20

bullvine wrote: »

thats incorrect, he didnt start to play the midfield, his early career was as a forward, then around 98 he became a midfielder, he played in the middle in the treble season and in summer 2000 was the subject of a 31m bid from inter as a midfielder, then for some crazy idea in 01 fergie made him play behind ruud. It started off badly but by the end of 02 he had mastered it and for a couple of seasons he was phenomenal as a number 10 but with the aging of keane and fergies inability to replace midfielders plus the selling of both butt and p nev forced scholes back into midfield. From around 06 season he was just incredible till pretty much when he retired.

Since 2006 he was well past his best, his scoringf dropped, when he got the ball all he did was play a predictable sideways pass. He was excellent between 1999 to 2003, but still he had his limitations as a midfield player.

glued

Pirlo: The Greatest player in the world since Euro 2012 forever.

Xavi was the best player out of the three and then Scholes and then Pirlo. I really like Pirlo but the rewriting of history since his performances at Euro 2012 is quite disturbing. The guy was a really good midfielder for a long time but he's only really excelled in the latter stages of his career. Xavi was a fairly late bloomer too but he's been world class for a long time.

Scholes was fantastic and anybody that says that Pirlo was consistently better than Scholes over their respective careers is talking through their hoop.

Zico

gosplan wrote: »

If there were no Utd fan's here, this discussion wouldn't be happening.

If there were no Utd fans here half the threads on the bored wouldn't happen.

You probably wouldn't need a complicated charter and approved access for the Soccer forum either but there are upsides and downsides to everything.

Lemonandice20

glued wrote: »

Pirlo: The Greatest player in the world since Euro 2012 forever.

Xavi was the best player out of the three and then Scholes and then Pirlo. I really like Pirlo but the rewriting of history since his performances at Euro 2012 is quite disturbing. The guy was a really good midfielder for a long time but he's only really excelled in the latter stages of his career. Xavi was a fairly late bloomer too but he's been world class for a long time.

Scholes was fantastic and anybody that says that Pirlo was consistently better than Scholes over their respective careers is talking through their hoop.

Just because the media only took notice of Pirlo since Euro 2012 doesn't mean he only became a good player since then. Pirlo was a better player 10 years ago than he is now.

It's ridiculous that the media have only noticed recently how good Pirlo is now when he was much better 10 years ago, what a pack of sheep the media are.

Can you answer this, how has he only excelled recently, what has he done better recently compared to 10 years ago ?

Soft Falling Rain

OneEightSeven wrote: »

I don't know which is worse: this very naive quote or the 5 people who thanked it.

Mistake by Lloyd but the general point stands; plenty of shams have a PL medal, so it's not something that should be used as a distinct individual measuring tool.

bucketybuck

Turtwig wrote: »

You know, it would be very helpful if you actually explained your disagreement with his post rather than posting a gif and then this. They at least have put forward reasoning to their opinion.

Creationists and 9/11 truthers can put forward reasoning for their opinions also. Some opinions are just drivel and nothing is gained by engaging with them, the original post responded to being a perfect example.

You could say Scholes had 2 careers as he changed his game.

I think the playmaker Scholes wasn't as good as Xaxi but the goalscoring AM Scholes was fantastic.

redzerdrog

At no stage of Scholes career was he genuinely world class, Pirlo was a for period and Xavi was for a longer period.

Will I Amnt

Xavi > Scholes > Pirlo for me.

no money honey

Theres no comparison only deluded United fans depressed by their fall into mid table would think otherwise. These guys have done it at the highest level time and again. World Cups, Champions Leagues everything.

DARK-KNIGHT

no money honey wrote: »

Theres no comparison only deluded United fans depressed by their fall into mid table would think otherwise. These guys have done it at the highest level time and again. World Cups, Champions Leagues everything.

what vision you have...

sense my sarcasm in me liking your post?????

no money honey

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

what vision you have...

sense my sarcasm in me liking your post?????

I only hope this thread is sarcasm. Knowing United fans in real life though it probably aint. Scholes wouldnt make a Premier League XI. He might scrap the bench.

He always failed with England. At the highest level, he wasnt anything like Xavi or Pirlo.

DARK-KNIGHT

no money honey wrote: »

I only hope this thread is sarcasm. Knowing United fans in real life though it probably aint. Scholes wouldnt make a Premier League XI. He might scrap the bench.

He always failed with England. At the highest level, he wasnt anything like Xavi or Pirlo.

scrap the bench?????

or do you mean scrape the bench??


if you are going on a windup and your spelling is poor at least use spellcheck

Oranage2

In that Keane vieira document Keane left Scholes out of the Best team he's played with, a great player but not the best.