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DFS legally binding contract

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    #32
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,320 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Bepolite wrote: »
    Irish contract law is almost identical. That said if the agreement has a clause about it being an English contract there might be some wriggle room there.

    To be honest, I suspect that there is little difference in relation to SoGA items; however, if the application of English law went so far as to choice of venue, surely there would be an argument that this would fall foul of unfair contract terms rules as it would place an undue burden on the consumer.

    In relation to recoverability, the OP could consider write to DFS acknowledging his liability for the sofa but inviting them to provide evidence of the quantum of its loss. Bearing in mind the broad branch network, it should be possible to offload the sofa with a small reduction in price. If they choose to offload it through a heavily discounted store for discontinued or unwanted stick, I would challenge that on the basis that they have not acted to minimise their loss. Holding on to the item for a couple of months and seeking to match it with another order through their network would, other than for very bespoke items, produce a smaller loss. Ultimately, they might likely give up.


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    #33
    goz83
    Registered Users Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    The OP signed a contract. A deposit is not a get out of jail free card. The deposit formed part of the agreement, which the OP promised, at the time of signing the contract, to pay the full amount, presumably on collection, or before taking delivery. If the sofa is made to order, the OP needs to man up, pay for the sofa and learn from this. There is ALWAYS a chance of changing your mind, so ALWAYS be mindful when signing a contract.

    In my business, I take a booking fee for my service, which forms part of the full fee. I find it comical, if someone cancels my services on the day of their appointment and also expect a booking fee back. Not too happy when they are reminded that multiples of their booking fee is due, because they didn't bother their hole cancelling sooner. When the OP said he paid the deposit and then asked for it back a few days later, that said it all....washes his hands of responsibility. Pretend to have been drunk? Disgraceful carry on that is. I hope I never have to deal with that type of b0llix.


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    #34
    Zeppi
    Registered Users Posts: 366 ✭✭Zeppi


    When a deposit is paid and nothing signed it's still a legally binding contract as you have agreed to purchase the sofa.

    Zeppi


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    #35
    CK73
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭CK73


    howyegettinon1 wrote: »
    Thats a great idea, the couch is already up for sale, so hopefull something comes thrue before the couch is ready for collection.

    I can still buy the couch but its an expense i dont need as i already bough another couch from a relative.

    So what will happen if i dont buy the couch?
    They are going to pass this off to a debt collection agency, who in turn will sell my stuff for me in order for me to pay for the couch which I have never used or collected? It doesnt really make sense, its easyer for them to retain the 200 deposit and sell off the couch to the next customer (between dozens of stores they have i dont see that being too much of a problem for them, keeping in mind they already have an extra 200 without lifting a finger)

    I can understand this approach if say I bought say a car on finance missed payments, the first thing that the debt collectors are going to take is the car?
    But in this case the couch has never left the store, if this was to go to the debt collectors shouldnt the couch be the first thing they take, and since its never left the store or the original packaging it should cover the cost of the debt?


    Also if i was persued for the remaining amount through the courts, Im a right to believe they can only look for the production cost of the couch, without their profit margin?

    Why did you buy a couch from a relative, knowing you had already bought a couch? It doesn't make sense. Surely the first thing you would have done is to check the contract and see if it was possible for you to cancel and on seeing that it wasn't, not to buy the couch from the relative.

    Perhaps you should give the couch back to the relative and get your money back from them, or would they take you to court too?


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    #36
    howyegettinon1
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭howyegettinon1


    CK73 wrote: »
    Why did you buy a couch from a relative, knowing you had already bought a couch? It doesn't make sense. Surely the first thing you would have done is to check the contract and see if it was possible for you to cancel and on seeing that it wasn't, not to buy the couch from the relative.

    Perhaps you should give the couch back to the relative and get your money back from them, or would they take you to court too?

    I paid 100 for the new couch which is of better quality and much more comfortable, so at this point if i was to lose the deposit i would still be getting a bargain.

    So it doest suit me to pay another 1100 for something I already have, this is down to the timing of the buy and the offer from the relative.

    With a company this size you would expect them to have some leeway, it's not like i left it to the last day to cancel. Notice was given within 4 working days of placing the order


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    #37
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,215 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    howyegettinon1 wrote: »
    I paid 100 for the new couch which is of better quality and much more comfortable, so at this point if i was to lose the deposit i would still be getting a bargain.

    So it doest suit me to pay another 1100 for something I already have, this is down to the timing of the buy and the offer from the relative.

    With a company this size you would expect them to have some leeway, it's not like i left it to the last day to cancel. Notice was given within 4 working days of placing the order

    why would you expect them to have leeway? They are a business not a charity


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    #38
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    howyegettinon1 wrote: »
    I paid 100 for the new couch which is of better quality and much more comfortable, so at this point if i was to lose the deposit i would still be getting a bargain.

    So it doest suit me to pay another 1100 for something I already have, this is down to the timing of the buy and the offer from the relative.

    With a company this size you would expect them to have some leeway, it's not like i left it to the last day to cancel. Notice was given within 4 working days of placing the order

    You're still not getting it. YOU signed a contract promising to buy a sofa from DFS. Without reading and understanding it. The contract is binding. It's irrelevant that your relative offered you a better quality sofa for far less money. DFS won't care about that. They want their money. Pay them.

    When the sofa comes in - sell it. Simple. Why are you making it so hard for yourself?


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    #39
    CK73
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭CK73


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    You're still not getting it. YOU signed a contract promising to buy a sofa from DFS. Without reading and understanding it. The contract is binding. It's irrelevant that your relative offered you a better quality sofa for far less money. DFS won't care about that. They want their money. Pay them.

    When the sofa comes in - sell it. Simple. Why are you making it so hard for yourself?

    Why did he go for a high end sofa if money was tight? It makes no sense agreeing to buy a sofa that he considers to be of inferior quality. Why would you do that? Unless the quality only came into focus when a sofa was offered practically free?

    Seems like a lack of communication all round. Didn't the relative know they wanted a sofa? Why wait until they have signed a contract to offer them the sofa?

    I'm guessing it's one of those situations where talking about the sofa they had bought, resulted in being told they could have had one practically free and without thinking, they said yes.

    Now, you've only lost €100 in the end and I'm assuming you don't have room in your house for another sofa, so the answer is to sell it and try and sell it before delivery, so you can get it delivered to the new persons home. I am assuming there are pictures of the sofa on their site? Under cut their price by €200, with free delivery and you may get yourself a sale.


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    #40
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    godtabh wrote: »
    why would you expect them to have leeway? They are a business not a charity
    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    You're still not getting it. YOU signed a contract promising to buy a sofa from DFS. Without reading and understanding it. The contract is binding. It's irrelevant that your relative offered you a better quality sofa for far less money. DFS won't care about that. They want their money. Pay them.

    When the sofa comes in - sell it. Simple. Why are you making it so hard for yourself?

    Because when one is dealing as a consumer a certain amount of give is expected, as when dealing with consumers who are never the brightest bunch of people - I mean that as a general term not directed at the OP. Most of us are like kids in a sweetshop when we're out shopping.

    If consumers didn't need protection due to the fact they are not on an equal footing with the business we wouldn't need consumer legislation would we? What did people expect the OP to do? Go through the contract line by line an negotiate each clause? DFS have the OP's deposit, they don't make bespoke furniture, they make the same crap for everyone - albeit - roughly to the number of orders they have. The retailer will easily sell the sofa on, probably for full price.

    All this aside this is shocking customer service.


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    #41
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Shocking customer service or not, it is what it is. I've dealt with DFS in the past, and know they won't budge. So I think the best thing is for the OP to extricate themselves as painlessly as possible. Which is what I've been advising. It's not what he wants to hear, but IMO it's the best solution.

    And no - I don't go through contracts line by line. But there is usually a clause about cooling off periods and the fact the deposit is non-refundable is there not? And you don't have to look too hard for it either...

    Why on earth have contracts if the clients can break them at will?


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    #42
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    ABajaninCork wrote: »
    Why on earth have contracts if the clients can break them at will?

    The loss should be proportionate. A loss of a €200 deposit is exactly that. This concept isn't new to contract law. Exclusion clauses, penalty clauses and things that amount to them are not well received.


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    #43
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #44
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    Nah. DFS will just pass the debt on to a collection agency. The OP already said so...


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    #45
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #46
    CK73
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭CK73


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    He could end up in the small claims court and have to pay them a small monthly fee, but this would also impact on his credit rating, which I doubt he would want.


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    #47
    brannid3
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭brannid3


    Could you not just ask, out of good faith, for a credit note for the value of what you have given? Does the contract say anything about a period of change of mind and allow for the purchase of a lesser value?

    I'm afraid the ball is in their court as you signed over.


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    #48
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    CK73 wrote: »
    He could end up in the small claims court and have to pay them a small monthly fee, but this would also impact on his credit rating, which I doubt he would want.

    Do you have anything to back up that statement?


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    #49
    howyegettinon1
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭howyegettinon1


    Bepolite wrote: »
    Because when one is dealing as a consumer a certain amount of give is expected, as when dealing with consumers who are never the brightest bunch of people - I mean that as a general term not directed at the OP. Most of us are like kids in a sweetshop when we're out shopping.

    If consumers didn't need protection due to the fact they are not on an equal footing with the business we wouldn't need consumer legislation would we? What did people expect the OP to do? Go through the contract line by line an negotiate each clause? DFS have the OP's deposit, they don't make bespoke furniture, they make the same crap for everyone - albeit - roughly to the number of orders they have. The retailer will easily sell the sofa on, probably for full price.

    All this aside this is shocking customer service.


    Thank you!
    Also as a consumer you take a risk handing a deposit over, what if the company goes bust?
    Where does that leave the consumer? How much will it cost you to get you to get your 200 euro deposit back, in the end would you even get it back?

    Both parties take are taking a risk here, as a consumer you never want to hand over the full amount in the case the you never recieve the goods, as a business you have a minimum amount to cover you loses if the consumer walks away.


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    #50
    howyegettinon1
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭howyegettinon1


    brannid3 wrote: »
    Could you not just ask, out of good faith, for a credit note for the value of what you have given? Does the contract say anything about a period of change of mind and allow for the purchase of a lesser value?

    I'm afraid the ball is in their court as you signed over.

    Good faith an DFS dont go together. I am willing to forfit the deposit to cover their loss, even at that the want to take legal action.


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    #51
    howyegettinon1
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭howyegettinon1


    CK73 wrote: »
    Why did he go for a high end sofa if money was tight? It makes no sense agreeing to buy a sofa that he considers to be of inferior quality. Why would you do that? Unless the quality only came into focus when a sofa was offered practically free?

    Seems like a lack of communication all round. Didn't the relative know they wanted a sofa? Why wait until they have signed a contract to offer them the sofa?

    I'm guessing it's one of those situations where talking about the sofa they had bought, resulted in being told they could have had one practically free and without thinking, they said yes.

    This is not a question of money being tight,
    Option 1 pay 1400 for a brand new sofa, happy days!!
    Option 2 save 1100 and get a better sofa! (just to gauge the quality the rellies sofa cost 3,500 new)

    Which one would you pick?


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    #52
    brannid3
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭brannid3


    howyegettinon1 wrote: »
    Good faith an DFS dont go together. I am willing to forfit the deposit to cover their loss, even at that the want to take legal action.

    I don't think they would take legal action for something like that. The debt collectors will hound you though I'm afraid.

    Unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 93/13/EEC - Article 3, start there maybe? Not sure if anything there will help. There's a difference between not reading a contract and not understanding it and all that jazz.


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    #53
    Sniipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,932 ✭✭✭Sniipe


    Would another way out of the contract be if the item isn't exactly as ordered at the time of purchase or if there was a flaw with the couch (minor or major)?

    (this thread reminds me of the show Suits)


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    #54
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Bepolite wrote: »
    Because when one is dealing as a consumer a certain amount of give is expected, as when dealing with consumers who are never the brightest bunch of people - I mean that as a general term not directed at the OP. Most of us are like kids in a sweetshop when we're out shopping.

    If consumers didn't need protection due to the fact they are not on an equal footing with the business we wouldn't need consumer legislation would we? What did people expect the OP to do? Go through the contract line by line an negotiate each clause? DFS have the OP's deposit, they don't make bespoke furniture, they make the same crap for everyone - albeit - roughly to the number of orders they have. The retailer will easily sell the sofa on, probably for full price.

    All this aside this is shocking customer service.

    Line by line?? We're hardly talking about some obscure clause buried deep in the small print. You agree to buy a sofa for a certain, you buy a sofa for a certain price. its really very simple


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    #55
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    Beano wrote: »
    Line by line?? We're hardly talking about some obscure clause buried deep in the small print. You agree to buy a sofa for a certain, you buy a sofa for a certain price. its really very simple

    It really isn't in consumer contracts because, contrary to popular belief, Judges and the legislators live in the real world.


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    #56
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,724 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Bepolite wrote: »
    It really isn't in consumer contracts because, contrary to popular belief, Judges and the legislators live in the real world.

    1389111215616.gif


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    #57
    Vikings
    Registered Users Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    howyegettinon1 wrote: »
    This is not a question of money being tight,
    Option 1 pay 1400 for a brand new sofa, happy days!!
    Option 2 save 1100 and get a better sofa! (just to gauge the quality the rellies sofa cost 3,500 new)

    Which one would you pick?

    Option 3 - ring DFS and ask about cancelling your order before buying the other sofa.

    This is a situation you got yourself into, and there is no loophole out of it. Sell either the new sofa or the second hand one and learn from your mistake.

    If you got such a good deal on the second hand sofa surely you could sell that for more than you paid for it and actually be better off?


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    #58
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    CK73 wrote: »
    He could end up in the small claims court and have to pay them a small monthly fee, but this would also impact on his credit rating, which I doubt he would want.

    Small Claims Court doesn't do debt collection.


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    #59
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    brannid3 wrote: »
    I don't think they would take legal action for something like that. The debt collectors will hound you though I'm afraid.

    Debt collectors can attempt to contact people but they can't take it as far as to hound people.

    I don't have the link to the case where manners were put on them, but no doubt somebody will put it up.


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    #60
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #61
    sebastianlieken
    Registered Users Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭sebastianlieken


    Sniipe wrote: »
    Would another way out of the contract be if the item isn't exactly as ordered at the time of purchase or if there was a flaw with the couch (minor or major)?

    (this thread reminds me of the show Suits)

    Worth a go sure! just say it's a shade off the colour you ordered, there's a defect here, a flaw there, it smells, etc. odds are they'll only replace/repair though.


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