Being Shouted at in the Street

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

SusieBlue

Fluorescence wrote: »

Another example: anyone who's ever worked in retail, hospitality or any customer facing role will attest to the fact that some customers don't see you as a human being. They'll talk to you like you're utterly beneath them when they deign to acknowledge you at all. Or they'll touch you, invade your personal space, assume you'll drop everything you're doing to serve their needs instantaneously. To them, they're the only person that matters and everyone else exists to be backdrop to their life. They lay claim to you whether they actually want anything from you or not. Now, extend that into a wider society where we get hassle on the streets just going about our daily lives. The men catcalling probably don't want anything from you. They may be in relationships themselves. They're staking their claim to you like a dog pissing on a tree, and that's why there's always laughter at the "victim's" expense. Because you've just been pissed on by a dog.

YES to all of this. The lack of respect from customers regarding personal space is appalling. I've had my hair pulled, my arm grabbed, and my clothes pulled all from people trying to get my attention to serve them when the bar is clearly 3 people deep and theres a wait. Pulling at me isn't going to make me serve anyone any faster.

A couple of months ago we had a lock in after work and about 20 ish customers were allowed to stay back drinking until we were finished cleaning, which would normally be at about 4am. 4am came and they were just sitting there ignorantly sipping their drinks, no intention of moving even though we were clearly all just waiting to wash their glasses and clear their table, then it'd be home time.

All 40 (ish) staff were standing near their tables giving them evils, willing them to hurry so we could go home but they weren't taking any hints. My female supervisor went over to ask them to hurry, only for one of the male members of the party to PICK HER UP and start running with her over his shoulder. He ended up dropping her in his drunken state.

Of course, "the lads" found it absolutely hilarious, he sure showed that 5ft tall, 20 year old girl who was boss! None of them even stopped to check if she was okay (she was, just angry). Instinct kicked in and the male staff all but kicked the customer down the stairs, and he's now barred, but still.

Why on earth is that a reasonable reaction to being asked to leave a closing premises? WHY would anyone perceive it as funny to pick up someone against their will and drop them on the floor? On what planet is that a reasonable response, to anything really?!

I think I've been in hospitality too long. I have so many stories from working in the sector. Outside of work, I haven't had too many experiences of this but I have enough work ones to last a lifetime!

LegacyUser

I remember being eleven and walking down the stairs of some café in Dublin with my mother when I felt someone grabbing my arse. My initial thoughts were that it must be someone I know messing (not a logical first thought I know but I was an 11 year old getting her arse grabbed), I turned around and saw this young lad probably in his late teens right behind me and an older man standing beside him. I met the young lad's eye, thought it was him as he was directly behind me and just legged it down the rest of the stairs ahead of my mother. The young lad came out and approached me and said quite loudly "here I just want you to know it wasn't me grabbing your arse, it was that dirty bollocks there" pointing after the older man who was walking off down the street. I was so upset and ashamed, and for some reason so anxious that my mother would realise what had happened that I just kind of nodded and ran off. I wish I'd thanked him, and I hope I didn't put him off doing things like that in the future.

I get stuff shouted at me a lot, it doesn't upset me or make me feel ashamed like it did when I was eleven, but it really ****ing pisses me off. I'm going to wear out my middle finger one of these days - not that reacting that way makes the men think "my god, she isn't taking my randomly screamed sexual innuendo in the complimentary spirit in which it was intended, maybe I should examine my behaviour and its impact on people a bit" - but darnit it does make me feel better!

I also have more than a sneaking behaviour that the men engaging in and/or condoning and downplaying it in others make up a healthy contingent of the ones who curse women as stuck-up bitches for not engaging in conversation with every man who approaches them on nights out.

Absolutely though Ireland is not as bad by half as a lot of other countries for this

ivytwine

WhiteRoses wrote: »

YES to all of this. The lack of respect from customers regarding personal space is appalling. I've had my hair pulled, my arm grabbed, and my clothes pulled all from people trying to get my attention to serve them when the bar is clearly 3 people deep and theres a wait. Pulling at me isn't going to make me serve anyone any faster.

A couple of months ago we had a lock in after work and about 20 ish customers were allowed to stay back drinking until we were finished cleaning, which would normally be at about 4am. 4am came and they were just sitting there ignorantly sipping their drinks, no intention of moving even though we were clearly all just waiting to wash their glasses and clear their table, then it'd be home time.

All 40 (ish) staff were standing near their tables giving them evils, willing them to hurry so we could go home but they weren't taking any hints. My female supervisor went over to ask them to hurry, only for one of the male members of the party to PICK HER UP and start running with her over his shoulder. He ended up dropping her in his drunken state.

Of course, "the lads" found it absolutely hilarious, he sure showed that 5ft tall, 20 year old girl who was boss! None of them even stopped to check if she was okay (she was, just angry). Instinct kicked in and the male staff all but kicked the customer down the stairs, and he's now barred, but still.

Why on earth is that a reasonable reaction to being asked to leave a closing premises? WHY would anyone perceive it as funny to pick up someone against their will and drop them on the floor? On what planet is that a reasonable response, to anything really?!

I think I've been in hospitality too long. I have so many stories from working in the sector. Outside of work, I haven't had too many experiences of this but I have enough work ones to last a lifetime!

I worked in a bookies and I'm the same size as your old supervisor. I was picked up, arse smacked, touched up...

I will say this, it was always ould fellas, or middle aged anyway. Never younger guys. I did get hit on by one guy continually and I snapped one day, towards the end of my spell there. Just said "Look, I'm here to work, can you leave me alone please?" I must have sounded very aggressive because he avoided me after that apart from making cow eyes at me every so often :rolleyes:

I think Fluorescence is spot on about retail/service workers being seen as lesser and again, women being seen as lesser by these morons. In retail/service it's not necessarily a gender thing (plenty of awful female customers abusing young men verbally) but catcalling it is a gender thing. There's also the element of picking targets who don't fight back I think as someone mentioned earlier. I know male friends of mine who would have been perceived as not as manly maybe or maybe 'posh' who have been abused in the street.

I would get a lot of this when I was younger. Now after the bookies I clearly have a 'don't mess with me' vibe going on and it happens less these times.

I will reiterate what I said in the "why I need feminism" thread. We need to teach girls that it's ok to say no, to say **** off, obviously in as far as you can protect your safety. Any daughter of mine will be brought up not to tolerate this ****.

Fluxfan

I got the fright of my live a few weeks ago when I was walking down the street in daylight minding my own business. Wearing a nice sun dress as you do when the weather is hot! 2 guys in a car going on to a roundabout slowed down and leered out at me, shudder, but then drove back around the roundabout to follow me! I have never been so intimidated, they drove so slowly alongside me asking me to get into the car, promising me the best sex of my life (hooray). Obviously I didnt answer and started walking faster, but got to the point where I ran as the street was empty. Luckily there were some people around the corner and they decided to scarper off, not before shouting at me that I was a racist and a stuck up cúnt (!!) and I shouldnt be going around wearing a "dress like that" if I didnt want to go further.

Eugh, scary, intimidating, and I absolutely hate the fact I know I'll never wear that dress again despite loving it!! Thats just not on

username123

ppcperson wrote: »

Eugh, scary, intimidating, and I absolutely hate the fact I know I'll never wear that dress again despite loving it!! Thats just not on

Less so now, but when I was younger there were certain articles of clothing that I owned that I would only wear while in the company of a boyfriend as they would attract too much unwanted attention otherwise.

Fluxfan

username123 wrote: »

Less so now, but when I was younger there were certain articles of clothing that I owned that I would only wear while in the company of a boyfriend as they would attract too much unwanted attention otherwise.

That shouldnt be the way but I guess its just easier. It was a particularly revealing dress or anything, Im sure they would have found plenty more scantily clad than me. I think it was just the "fun" of it for them because I was on my own and they were bored!

eeeee

This boils my blood. It happens to me quite a lot, and can be really threatening sometimes. It ranges from the shouts of what they would like to do to me and how, to pointing out parts of my anatomy etc. etc. Cars pulling out of traffic to shout at me, on foot and on the bike, and I have been surrounded, followed and threatened.
I'm no wilting lily, I'm not shy or unsure of myself either, nor am I a young one (29), and I think now at this stage that must be it. It's like a challenge or something to 'take me down a peg or two' or whatever.
It incenses me that as a woman it is seen as quite acceptable to should, leer and threaten me. It is never, ever, in any way ok-and as for saying the compliments are ok give me strength. It is never, ever ok to comment on someone going about their business to be shouted at or commented upon in any way shape or form, It starts with the 'nice tits' shyte and goes from there. It is intimidating and insanely irritating to be subject to this with no provocation whatsoever. I have had cars cross lanes of traffic to shout at me, been surrounded and followed by a bunch of Leaving cert age fúckers who when I did not respond to their shouting began to surround me and tell me exactly how they were going to rape me, who was going to do what etc. so I started to run. They got into their car and started to follow me. I only lived around the corner so I bolted home. I was just walking home for fúcks sake!

Saying you should change how you dress and where you go etc. is bullshyte. You should be able to go where ever you want wearing whatever you like and not get harassed for it.

And breathe. Bit of a rant there sorry (it happened to me this morning) but I really think it is absolutely deplorable than in this day and age you cannot walk around as a woman without feeling fear, intimidation or anger because of Neanderthal gobshytes can't grow the fúck up and accept half the population as equals, or even just living feeling thinking people. It's 2014.

Shakespeare's Sister

I often experience it from the same bunch of lads when I'm out walking/running - just shouting crap because I'm *there*, no other reason. It is just young lads being silly and they'll grow out of it, but that doesn't change how uncomfortable it makes me feel. I nearly always ring someone or pretend to be on the phone now when I pass them now.
Then there's an older fella who always smiles and says hi to me, which is just being nice and I think it's a lovely, pleasant thing to do.

Ain't what you do it's the way that you do it.

discus

gadetra wrote: »

I have had cars cross lanes of traffic to shout at me, been surrounded and followed by a bunch of Leaving cert age fúckers who when I did not respond to their shouting began to surround me and tell me exactly how they were going to rape me, who was going to do what etc. so I started to run. They got into their car and started to follow me. I only lived around the corner so I bolted home. I was just walking home for fúcks sake!

That's absolutely disgusting.

his day and age you cannot walk around as a woman without feeling fear, intimidation or anger because of Neanderthal gobshytes can't grow the fúck up and accept half the population as equals, or even just living feeling thinking people. It's 2014.

It's not even just directed at women. Most of these scumbags would pick on vulnerable men and boys too, with similar threats. Not taking anything from their perverted disgusting taunts, but sexism is only one of their many sick traits.

eeeee

discus wrote: »

It's not even just directed at women. Most of these scumbags would pick on vulnerable men and boys too, with similar threats. Not taking anything from their perverted disgusting taunts, but sexism is only one of their many sick traits.

Yes you're absolutely right. I only deal with it as a woman but I am quite sure I am not their only target audience.

WhiteRoses

WhiteRoses wrote: »

My female supervisor went over to ask them to hurry, only for one of the male members of the party to PICK HER UP and start running with her over his shoulder. He ended up dropping her in his drunken state.

Of course, "the lads" found it absolutely hilarious, he sure showed that 5ft tall, 20 year old girl who was boss!

I was walking out of a pub behind a friend a couple of years ago because of a rowdy and intimidating rugby group hassling us, and a guy ran up behind me and picked me up.

Then he THREW me at his friend. Across a table with a dozen glasses on it. I fell, of course. They thought it was hilarious. I'm 4 foot 11 inches tall, I weigh just over six stone, and they were big rugby types.

What is wrong with these people?

ivytwine

Candie wrote: »

I was walking out of a pub behind a friend a couple of years ago because of a rowdy and intimidating rugby group hassling us, and a guy ran up behind me and picked me up.

Then he THREW me at his friend. Across a table with a dozen glasses on it. I fell, of course. They thought it was hilarious. I'm 4 foot 11 inches tall, I weigh just over six stone, and they were big rugby types.

What is wrong with these people?

That is assault, you could have had the bastard up in court for that.

(My tolerance is so low now for **** after years of retail/customer service!)

leahyl

This happened to me a few times when I was a teenager, not so much now. But a few years ago I was walking along the main street in Cork City, not that late at night either, and 2 guys (I would say in their late teens) walked past me in the opposite direction and one of them put his hand out and basically touched me in my private region....I was absolutely horrified - have never forgotten it; he didn't say anything, just kept walking. I must say I am a bit nervous if I pass a group of lads on my own.

Max Powers

Reading thru this, there sure is a lot of idiotic lads out there. See tiny feys experience below:

“I experienced car creepery at thirteen. I was walking home from middle school past a place called the World’s Largest Aquarium—which, legally, I don’t know how they could call it that, because it was obviously an average-sized aquarium. Maybe I should start referring to myself as the World’s Tallest Man and see how that goes? Anyway, I was walking home alone from school and I was wearing a dress. A dude drove by and yelled, “Nice tits.” Embarrassed and enraged, I screamed after him, “Suck my dick.” Sure, it didn’t make any sense, but at least I don’t hold in my anger.”


― Tina Fey, Bossypants

czechlin

I am so angry after catching up on reading this thread and I feel like getting giant posters printed in an order to spread some edification :mad:

Azwaldo55

danslevent wrote: »

Ladies, how often do groups of men shout at you or pass comments at you in the street? Contrary to what my username suggests, I am in fact a woman and I was nearly brought to tears by two separate encounters in the street yesterday.

I was on my lunch break eating an ice-cream, passed three men and one said "Can I have a lick?" while they all jeered and laughed. As I was walking home from work, I passed a mini bus that had more than 11 men in it. They were pulling up outside a hostel so I assume a stag or something. They looked to be over thirty years of age, probably some of them have young daughters, they all began wolf-whistling, shouting things like "Hello gorgeous" or "Give us a smile". I know this attention is not because I am so stunningly beautiful, but merely because I am female and was walking alone. It would have happened to any woman that happened to be passing them....I walked away with tears in my eyes. I felt so degraded and embarrassed.

This happens to me a lot, and I know my friends too. When I pass a group of guys I know that 30 percent of the time they are going to make some sort of comment towards me. I feel so objectified just because I am a woman. It should be so unacceptable to do this to a human being but it seems when some guys (not all now, of course not) are in a group they get a pack mentality and feel free to shout comments concerning appearance.

When I am walking alone and see a group of young men ahead of me I can actually feel my stomach tightening because if they are of a certain social class or drunk or just acting boisterous, I know they are going to say something...or shout something...that makes me feel so embarrassed.

Why does this exist? I feel so angry and upset about it, especially knowing that if I had a man with me, it wouldn't happen.

It's just a bit of fun. Lighten up. Men are hardwired to act boisterous and macho in groups and to whoop at women passing by. This has probably been going on since the dawn of time.
The men don't actually believe you fancy them or anything or will want to have group sex just because they called out to you.
You are not going to be gang-raped for goodness sake.
In fact you are probably safe around these men because they would probably be just the type to leap in and kick the head off some creep who was actually trying to attack or strangle you or something.
Men like looking at women swishing past hips and ass swaying and breasts bouncing.
Kings liked statues of naked women in their gardens and oil paintings of naked women on their walls and modern men like putting up pictures of Page 3 girls on the walls of the canteen.
Men like women.
End of.
Nothing sinister or bad about it.
It's just what healthy red blooded heterosexual men do.

Dolbert

^Head. Fcuking. Desk.

Azwaldo55

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

It's just a bit of fun. Lighten up. Men are hardwired to act boisterous and macho in groups and to whoop at women passing by. This has probably been going on since the dawn of time.
The men don't actually believe you fancy them or anything or will want to have group sex just because they called out to you.
You are not going to be gang-raped for goodness sake.
In fact you are probably safe around these men because they would probably be just the type to leap in and kick the head off some creep who was actually trying to attack or strangle you or something.
Men like looking at women swishing past hips and ass swaying and breasts bouncing.
Kings liked statues of naked women in their gardens and oil paintings of naked women on their walls and modern men like putting up pictures of Page 3 girls on the walls of the canteen.
Men like women.
End of.
Nothing sinister or bad about it.
It's just what healthy red blooded heterosexual men do.

Hmmm. Where to start? So much wrong, so little time.


Actually, I just can't be bothered.

eviltwin

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

It's just a bit of fun. Lighten up. Men are hardwired to act boisterous and macho in groups and to whoop at women passing by. This has probably been going on since the dawn of time.
The men don't actually believe you fancy them or anything or will want to have group sex just because they called out to you.
You are not going to be gang-raped for goodness sake.
In fact you are probably safe around these men because they would probably be just the type to leap in and kick the head off some creep who was actually trying to attack or strangle you or something.
Men like looking at women swishing past hips and ass swaying and breasts bouncing.
Kings liked statues of naked women in their gardens and oil paintings of naked women on their walls and modern men like putting up pictures of Page 3 girls on the walls of the canteen.
Men like women.
End of.
Nothing sinister or bad about it.
It's just what healthy red blooded heterosexual men do.

so when a man shouts that i better watch my mouth or he'll rape me he's actually letting me know he's got my back. wow i feel so much better now, silly me for being threatened by that.

MissFlitworth

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

It's just a bit of fun. Lighten up. Men are hardwired to act boisterous and macho in groups and to whoop at women passing by.

That's so insulting to men. Most men don't do that, most men have no interest in making someone else feel uncomfortable and unsafe as they go around their day to day business, it's pure mad how most men are able to bypass that particular set of hardwiring so easily. Men != Howler Monkeys

I must remember that if something is fun for me and I have no intention of turning that fun into raping someone I should continue on with it, even if it makes it people uncomfortable to leave the house

Lux23

No, we won't lighten up. How would like it if a group of men shouted at you calling you 'small penis' and telling you 'don't worry smile, it might never happen'.

Azwaldo55

Candie wrote: »

Hmmm. Where to start? So much wrong, so little time.


Actually, I just can't be bothered.

Have I said anything that is inaccurate?
Men have been behaving this way since the dawn of time haven't they?
If a group of scientists got a test group of guys together in a pub to watch a football game and gave them copious amounts of booze and then had gorgeous woman walk by they wouldn't act like a bunch of randy chimps?
This is normal male behavior.
It happens everywhere in the world and it always will.
Pass all the laws you like or try and educate boys to not objectify women and you will fail miserably.
Young men like booze, risk taking, macho posturing, contact sports, gambling and whooping at gorgeous women.

No, no. He's right.

We should lighten up and welcome being the fall guy or the butt of the joke so that the harassers can have fun with each other because that's just what men do. Some men. It's the least we can do to make their lives more fun as they go about the business of making us uncomfortable at best and threatened at worst. Just because we hate it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

It's just being a spoilsport to complain, and no one likes a killjoy.

Azwaldo55

Lux23 wrote: »

No, we won't lighten up. How would like it if a group of men shouted at you calling you 'small penis' and telling you 'don't worry smile, it might never happen'.

If I were homosexual I might. I'm sure homosexual men enjoy being whooped at by other gays. Not very familiar with how gay men behave toward eachother but I am sure they have their own macho way of acting the maggot.
If a bunch of gay guys were calling after me I would be flattered maybe.:)

Lux23

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Have I said anything that is inaccurate?
Men have been behaving this way since the dawn of time haven't they?
If a group of scientists got a test group of guys together in a pub to watch a football game and gave them copious amounts of booze and then had gorgeous woman walk by they wouldn't act like a bunch of randy chimps?
This is normal male behavior.
It happens everywhere in the world and it always will.
Pass all the laws you like or try and educate boys to not objectify women and you will fail miserably.
Young men like booze, risk taking, macho posturing, contact sports, gambling and whooping at gorgeous women.

Lots of men manage to go through life without sexually harassing a woman, you are very much mistaken in this regard.

eviltwin

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Have I said anything that is inaccurate?
Men have been behaving this way since the dawn of time haven't they?
If a group of scientists got a test group of guys together in a pub to watch a football game and gave them copious amounts of booze and then had gorgeous woman walk by they wouldn't act like a bunch of randy chimps?
This is normal male behavior.
It happens everywhere in the world and it always will.
Pass all the laws you like or try and educate boys to not objectify women and you will fail miserably.
Young men like booze, risk taking, macho posturing, contact sports, gambling and whooping at gorgeous women.

We've evolved a bit since cavemen I hope. Would you condone shouting abuse in general or just towards women?

Dolbert

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Have I said anything that is inaccurate?
Men have been behaving this way since the dawn of time haven't they?
If a group of scientists got a test group of guys together in a pub to watch a football game and gave them copious amounts of booze and then had gorgeous woman walk by they wouldn't act like a bunch of randy chimps?
This is normal male behavior.
It happens everywhere in the world and it always will.
Pass all the laws you like or try and educate boys to not objectify women and you will fail miserably.
Young men like booze, risk taking, macho posturing, contact sports, gambling and whooping at gorgeous women.

Have you even read all of the replies on here? Women have actually been threatened with rape. Can you not fathom how this behaviour is deeply frightening and upsetting, as a lone woman to be treated like this by a group of men? Imagine your sister, your daughter coming home to you in tears because of what a group of assholes did/said to her. Would you tell her to lighten up? That boys will be boys? Fcuk's sake.

ShiftStorm

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Have I said anything that is inaccurate?
Men have been behaving this way since the dawn of time haven't they?
If a group of scientists got a test group of guys together in a pub to watch a football game and gave them copious amounts of booze and then had gorgeous woman walk by they wouldn't act like a bunch of randy chimps?
This is normal male behavior.
It happens everywhere in the world and it always will.
Pass all the laws you like or try and educate boys to not objectify women and you will fail miserably.
Young men like booze, risk taking, macho posturing, contact sports, gambling and whooping at gorgeous women.

You know what else has been happening since the beginning of time?

Gang rape. Domestic violence. Pedophilia. Marital rape.

Just because something has happened for a long time, doesn't make it acceptable.

Today, if a husband beats his wife, he is legally culpable. It is no longer accepted as part of a guy's nature to want to slap his woman around a bit. Before it was. And I guarantee there was some Azwaldos saying at the time "sure, what's a guy to do? We can't help getting a bit frustrated sometimes" when a woman raised an objection.

People, attitudes and the law have evolved. So should you.

Azwaldo55

Candie wrote: »

No, no. He's right.

We should lighten up and welcome being the fall guy or the butt of the joke so that the harassers can have fun with each other because that's just what men do. Some men. It's the least we can do to make their lives more fun as they go about the business of making us uncomfortable at best and threatened at worst. Just because we hate it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

It's just being a spoilsport to complain, and no one likes a killjoy.

You can complain all you want.
Won't change a thing
Boys will be boys.
In the war the British complained about Americans being oversexed overpaid and over here. American boys on leave would wreck the place getting blind drunk fighting each other and fighting over women.
Men in a group act like a band of brothers and behave outrageously.
This kind of carry on goes on stag nights, after rugby and soccer games and when sailors and soldiers are passing through.

If you think this will ever change you might as well ask for water not to be wet.

Hen nights are starting to copy stag nights with women waving giant inflatable male genitalia or inflatable naked men, surrounding passing men and begging for kisses or groping or having sex with male strippers.